Vrabel named HC of the NEP

Ed Hillel

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Inherited a 9-7 team. Has never rebuilt a team. Last 2 years he was well below .500. Has never developed a QB (which is really what we should be looking for).
He had the best record in the NFL one year - he is not a bad hire at all. But there is a whole lot he has never done.
Tannehill had his best years with Vrabel fwiw, and I don’t think he was ever a Top 10 talent, though it’s debatable.
 

Cellar-Door

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Tannehill had his best years with Vrabel fwiw.
And Arthur Smith (fell off a cliff once Smith left)... the success/failure of Maye is likely to hinge very heavily on who Vrabel gets at OC and how long he can keep him if it works.
 

Gash Prex

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Teddy (who has been speaking with Vrabel) certainly makes it sound like it will be a one man band show with Vrabel - ie, he’s going to run the organization and not Wolf
 

RG33

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We talk a lot about collaboration at my firm. There is a strong culture of it going back 80 years — BUT — as our founder’s grandson (who was Chairman until 2 years ago) says often, “people often misunderstand what collaboration is, and isn’t.”

His point is collaboration is working together as a team and getting inputs and perspectives from multiple people. It is NOT group-think or decision-by-committee. Ultimately, someone needs to be in charge, accountable for decisions, and everyone else has to realize when their opinions or ideas are not used or are not agreed with, that is still collaboration.

I don’t know what went on inside Foxboro, but it doesn’t strike me that “collaboration” was the issue. It feels more like “leadership” was the issue and that nobody really knew who was in charge and who got to make final decisions.

I don’t think there will be that kind of confusion with Vrabel here now.
 

loshjott

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The #Patriots officially hired Mike Vrabel seven days after the regular season ended. Not including Jerod Mayo, who was locked in contractually, that is the fastest head coaching hire by any team since Washington hired Ron Rivera on Dec. 31, 2019, two days after the season.
Glad Rivera was mentioned because if this doesn’t work out because of front office dysfunction and deteriorating ownership (meddling) Rivera to Washington is a good comp. Rivera came to DC with a better overall coaching pedigree than Vrabel but no HC can overcome bad ownership. Not comparing the Krafts to Dan Snyder yet but expecting any HC to cure the ills of a dysfunctional front office is asking too much.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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We talk a lot about collaboration at my firm. There is a strong culture of it going back 80 years — BUT — as our founder’s grandson (who was Chairman until 2 years ago) says often, “people often misunderstand what collaboration is, and isn’t.”

His point is collaboration is working together as a team and getting inputs and perspectives from multiple people. It is NOT group-think or decision-by-committee. Ultimately, someone needs to be in charge, accountable for decisions, and everyone else has to realize when their opinions or ideas are not used or are not agreed with, that is still collaboration.

I don’t know what went on inside Foxboro, but it doesn’t strike me that “collaboration” was the issue. It feels more like “leadership” was the issue and that nobody really knew who was in charge and who got to make final decisions.

I don’t think there will be that kind of confusion with Vrabel here now.
Well said, although he might have added that collaboration of any sort rarely succeeds when said collaborators are all in over their heads. I was pro-Johnson, but competence isn't going to be an issue with Vrabel, however much you might like his methods on a day-to-day basis.
 

Harry Hooper

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After actually watching the video of Bruschi's reaction, I'm not so sure it's Wolf after all. Maybe it's Jonathan?
FWIW, when I read Tedy's comments, I thought of Jonathan immediately.



Your concerns about the front office may turn out to be true. However, it’s not like Ben Johnson would be able to magically overcome them any better than Vrabel. In fact, I think Vrabel is more likely to be the dominant voice this franchise needs. So we’ll see.
That seems right.
 

AB in DC

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All I care about is that he did a great job in Tennessee with mediocre personnel. He should never have been fired. He's the best coach on the market and I'm thrilled we got him.
 

johnmd20

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And Arthur Smith (fell off a cliff once Smith left)... the success/failure of Maye is likely to hinge very heavily on who Vrabel gets at OC and how long he can keep him if it works.
Why do you keep talking about Smith like he's good. The Steelers last five games of the year, all huge games, the team never score more than 17. Smith failed miserably in Atlanta too. So that is three terrible years in a row.

Smith is a genius, putting together offenses that can't score more than 17.
 

Gash Prex

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This is a good article on why he was fired in Ten - seemed mostly because of a stupid owner honestly

A culmination of events led to his firing. That included Vrabel suggesting during the offseason hiring of general manager Ran Carthon that Carthon was not ready for the job, and owner Amy Adams Strunk disagreeing with that opinion. Strunk eventually came to believe her faith in Vrabel was not being reciprocated, and was also unhappy about Vrabel’s visit to New England in October to be enshrined in the Patriots’ Hall of Fame, nearly a dozen prominent people inside and outside the organization told The Athletic on the condition of anonymity.
When Carthon was close to getting the job, Vrabel told Strunk he liked Carthon but didn’t feel he was ready to become an NFL general manager. Vrabel’s suggestion: The Titans hire Carthon as the assistant GM, a promotion from his position as No. 3 in the 49ers’ pecking order. Strunk did not take kindly to this suggestion, and team sources believe her and Vrabel’s relationship took a hit as a result of that conversation.
He said: “(The Patriots) have won six Super Bowls in 20 years, that’s what I was alluding to. I don’t know what to tell you. It’s just a lot of success. … The amount of success that they had there, the whole message was, just for myself and the former players and everything, just to not take things for granted.”

The whole event did not sit well with Strunk, a team source said. She and Vrabel never talked about it, but she let it fester.
High-level Titans sources told The Athletic in November that the team’s long-term plan was to retain Vrabel as coach. After Vrabel’s firing, a team source said that was true then because Strunk strongly believed in Vrabel at the time — and because she wanted Vrabel to have a clear understanding of how she felt about him and how badly she wanted him to be the coach for years to come. Strunk did not get the sense that Vrabel felt the same way, and the communication between them got worse from there.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5193909/2024/01/11/tennessee-titans-mike-vrabel-fired/

Guess he was right about Cathorn
 

AB in DC

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It's not a coincidence that Tennessee earned the #1 draft pick the year after he left. That team is terrible.

(ok, granted that Derrick Henry left too, but still)
 

Cellar-Door

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This is a good article on why he was fired in Ten - seemed mostly because of a stupid owner honestly

Guess he was right about Cathorn
Owner has been bad, not sure he was right about Carthon... Carthon had a really good draft this year and reportedly Cowden (Vrabel's choice) ran the 2023 draft which looks terrible. Carthon getting fired is classic bad owner stuff.
I think it's as simple as... Strunk is a bad owner, who is too emotional/quick in her decisions, Vrabel is an asshole who was pissed he didn't get his way, then kinda checked out partway through his final year hoping for the Patriots job. Both can be at fault, and usually that's the case.
 

Auger34

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Maybe, but I thought Jonathan wanted Vrabel last year and his dad wanted Mayo.
the name that came to mind for me was Robyn Glaser. Weren’t there rumblings that she was more involved in personnel last year?
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Why do you keep talking about Smith like he's good. The Steelers last five games of the year, all huge games, the team never score more than 17. Smith failed miserably in Atlanta too. So that is three terrible years in a row.

Smith is a genius, putting together offenses that can't score more than 17.
Smith nearly ran Bijan Robinson and Tyler Allgiere at a 50/50 split in '23. Smith gets fired and Bijan goes for nearly 1500 yds and 14 tuddies. Smith is par boiled ass.
 

Gash Prex

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Owner has been bad, not sure he was right about Carthon... Carthon had a really good draft this year and reportedly Cowden (Vrabel's choice) ran the 2023 draft which looks terrible. Carthon getting fired is classic bad owner stuff.
I think it's as simple as... Strunk is a bad owner, who is too emotional/quick in her decisions, Vrabel is an asshole who was pissed he didn't get his way, then kinda checked out partway through his final year hoping for the Patriots job. Both can be at fault, and usually that's the case.
Well hopefully he’s better this time around…

 

Cellar-Door

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Well hopefully he’s better this time around…

Sounds from that like... Vrabel gets final say, he gets a guy in the room, Wolf makes the trains run on time? That does not sound like a great front office structure, but we'll see how it goes.
 

jsinger121

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Sounds from that like... Vrabel gets final say, he gets a guy in the room, Wolf makes the trains run on time? That does not sound like a great front office structure, but we'll see how it goes.
It's possible that Wolf is blown out after the draft much like Bobby Grier was after the 2000 draft.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Well hopefully he’s better this time around…

From a few years ago but still relevant...

Ryan Cowden: 5 things to know about NY Giants' general manager candidate

2. Experience matters
Cowden has over two decades of working in the NFL in a variety of roles, and as the Giants look to give their entire personnel department a face lift, they're going to need someone willing to have his hands on just about everything.

He's a well-rounded candidate, for sure, overseeing all areas of the scouting department, both college and pro, including advance scouting, free agency preparation, and evaluation of players in the NFL. Cowden is also involved in preparation for the NFL Draft in Tennessee.

3. Proof is in the talent acquisition
Since Cowden was in Carolina as a national scout in 2008 through his final year in 2015, the Panthers drafted foundation pieces such as Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, Josh Norman, Star Lotulelei, Kawaan Short and Shaq Thompson.

He joined the Titans in 2016 and some of the names selected in the draft include Derrick Henry, Kevin Byard, Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith and A.J. Brown.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Why do you keep talking about Smith like he's good. The Steelers last five games of the year, all huge games, the team never score more than 17. Smith failed miserably in Atlanta too. So that is three terrible years in a row.

Smith is a genius, putting together offenses that can't score more than 17.
I think it's less about Smith being a great coordinator and more about Smiths offense fitting the Titans roster perfectly. A heavy run game that leaned into play-action and dynamic TEs was the perfect fit for that roster. That it couldn't be replicated or the roster couldn't adjust when he left could probably be considered an indictment on Vrabel.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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A culmination of events led to his firing. That included Vrabel suggesting during the offseason hiring of general manager Ran Carthon that Carthon was not ready for the job, and owner Amy Adams Strunk disagreeing with that opinion. Strunk eventually came to believe her faith in Vrabel was not being reciprocatedt, and was also unhappy about Vrabel’s visit to New England in October to be enshrined in the Patriots’ Hall of Fame, nearly a dozen prominent people inside and outside the organization told The Athletic on the condition of anonymity.
I was at that game, and I thought it was fucking weird, both the stuff he said and the fact that he came in person in season.
 

dynomite

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I’m thrilled.

In Dec 2023 this is what I wrote:

This is my problem generally -- pretty much everyone in NFL history is a demonstrably worse coach than Belichick. Every single alternative that's suggested feels inferior. It's nearly impossible for me to imagine the Patriots without Belichick, and I continue to think our measure of NFL success has been entirely warped.

Still, if Belichick's run with this franchise is truly over, someone has to replace him. And Vrabel seems about as likely to succeed as anyone?
I still feel this way, especially about our warped view of success. We all just saw two of the most respected coaches in the league get blown out yesterday on Wild Card weekend in Jim Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin, with another maybe on the way today in Sean Payton. But all 3 will have had a “successful” season by any definitions of the term.

Vrabel has proven success as a HC in the NFL AND he’s a Patriots Hall of Famer. He knows the ownership, he knows the media landscape in this region, he has connections across the NFL from many years as a coach/asst coach/consultant, he has a decade of good will built up from fans of the team (more so than Mayo ever did, I would argue). There’s a reason he was one of the two most sought after HCs in the league this offseason.

Ultimately, his tenure here might not work out, but I’m more hopeful about the direction of the franchise than I have been since… 2021?

We have the QB. Now we have a HC who has been successful in the NFL. Let’s draft some good guys in April, sign some good free agents, and go from there.
 
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DJnVa

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I think it's less about Smith being a great coordinator and more about Smiths offense fitting the Titans roster perfectly. A heavy run game that leaned into play-action and dynamic TEs was the perfect fit for that roster. That it couldn't be replicated or the roster couldn't adjust when he left could probably be considered an indictment on Vrabel.
The year after he left they went 12-5, even with Henry only playing 8 games. Then in 2022, the FO traded AJ Brown, Tannehill was banged up, and they started 7-3 but bled out late in the season due to a lack of talent that probably wasn't Vrabel's fault.
 

Ed Hillel

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Sounds from that like... Vrabel gets final say, he gets a guy in the room, Wolf makes the trains run on time? That does not sound like a great front office structure, but we'll see how it goes.
Doesn’t “retaining personnel power” make it seem like Wolf has final say?
 

DJnVa

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Doesn’t “retaining personnel power” make it seem like Wolf has final say?
Maybe, but again, that could be through the draft. And that's not a NE writer saying he "believes" that could happen.

I'm not anti-Wolf, so it's not a big deal to me as long as Vrabel is happy, and since he took the job, I imagine he was.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I‘ve seen the suggestion that he’s open to a demotion and just wants to be behind the scenes as a scout/personal person.
No thank you. I don’t need the new guy having the old guy hanging around in any capacity. He can go somewhere else and do that.
 

Cellar-Door

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Doesn’t “retaining personnel power” make it seem like Wolf has final say?
I took that to mean he would run the personnel department rather than final say, but possible. Hard to reconcile with the Vrabel "Significant say" reports... how do you have a signfiicant say but Wolf has final say? Doesn' tevery coach have significant say if that's the standard....
 

Ed Hillel

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I took that to mean he would run the personnel department rather than final say, but possible. Hard to reconcile with the Vrabel "Significant say" reports... how do you have a signfiicant say but Wolf has final say? Doesn' tevery coach have significant say if that's the standard....
Could just be shitty upper management trying to make everyone happy. My hope is that is not the case.
 

Garshaparra

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No thank you. I don’t need the new guy having the old guy hanging around in any capacity. He can go somewhere else and do that.
100% agreed. We know Wolf plays enough politics that he stuck when BB was canned, and we do not need that lingering.

Vrabel got very good experience in TN, even if it ended poorly. His tenure is quite similar to BB in Cleveland, with some solid years and surprising playoff runs petering out in the face of bad ownership. I'm optimistic for a mediocre 2025, with so many holes to fill, and a real leap in 2026.
 

RS2004foreever

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I took that to mean he would run the personnel department rather than final say, but possible. Hard to reconcile with the Vrabel "Significant say" reports... how do you have a signfiicant say but Wolf has final say? Doesn' tevery coach have significant say if that's the standard....
Is this really different than the last BB draft? Really asking because I am not sure
 

Cellar-Door

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Is this really different than the last BB draft? Really asking because I am not sure
There is no indication that Bill ever really lost complete control over the draft and personnel decisions (except maybe that he was told he couldn't dump their 1st round QB, but that is often an owner decision)
 

Ed Hillel

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There is no indication that Bill ever really lost complete control over the draft and personnel decisions (except maybe that he was told he couldn't dump their 1st round QB, but that is often an owner decision)
There have been reports he never wanted Mac, which indicates some loss of control. I think Kraft’s turning point was when BB told Kraft Brady was done and then Brady won the SB the next season.
 

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That wasn't a priority under Bellicheck, that wasn't a priority around here for Clay Buckholtz, and it's damn sure not gonna be a priority now!

Jokes aside, this feels like a safe hire, someone who has already proven themselves competent as a HC and gotten through the worst of the learning curve. There's probably an analogy to Belichick's Cleveland years, in that sense. Though obviously BB had the decade-plus of coaching defense prior to that which Vrabel only has part of (and the analogy is weak for many other reasons - I don't think any of Vrabel's gameplans are in Canton, for example). Sometimes, the low-risk move is also the right move. I view this as hiring the "Best Coach Available", and not arguing ourselves into knots over floors vs ceilings.