Week 4 Game Thread

Shelterdog

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FWIW, I am not sure if that WaPo article is exactly right. I’m trying to go through the NFLs hard guidelines on it and I could be hard misreading it but it seems like team doctor makes a final call even with the unaffiliated neurologist being able to ask questions and support. I don’t think it’s clear the independent doc can override unless the player is deemed to be concussed

https://static.www.nfl.com/image/upload/v1597677293/league/dhfywrwelyfsivvia3ie.pdf

Only medical personnel deemed essential to the care of the athlete
306 may be present for the tent and/or locker room evaluation. This includes the team
307 physician best qualified to evaluate concussion, the Club athletic trainer, and the
308 sideline UNC. The sideline UNC may present his/her own questions or conduct
309 additional testing.
310
311 If, upon completing the Sideline Survey, the Club physician concludes that the
312 player did not sustain a concussion, then the player may return to play
this is the doc I tried to post earlier.
lines 373-376 give the club physician sole.responsibility for determining if there was a concussion in the locker room examination.

its pretty wild really, the nfl talks up the independent neurologists a lot be the team doctor actually retains full control
 

Harry Hooper

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Not thrown over his outside shoulder despite the color commentary, but a big connection to Chase.
 

luckiestman

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I thought the Bengals D looked really good against the Jets and except for that amazing Hill catch on a bomb they have repeated what I saw Sunday.
 

riboflav

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My wife was a cheerleading coach, a sport that has the second highest concussion rate in high school athletics. She took concussion courses every year to maintain her coaching certification. She would do her very best to recognize any sign of concussion in her athletes. And it was a doctor who had to ultimately make that diagnosis, not her. Many times one of her athletes turned out not to have a concussion.

Maybe Tua did. He looked awful when he stumbled to the turf last week.

The hit he took tonight was alone violent enough to give him a serious concussion. It doesn’t necessarily mean he was only susceptible because he had one last week as well.
The first thing you learn is that all concussions are serious. I'm not trying to be flippant but that is what you learn... first.. for a reason. Because we still have people who want to let people in positions of power off the hook for their moral and ethical (and sometimes professional) choices not to treat concussions or even suspected concussions as serious.

I am confident that he was absolutely more susceptible to a second concussion as a result of the first one happening just four days ago. This is also taught in Concussion Ed. Finally, he is also further susceptible to lifelong suffering as a result of not healing from the first one.

EDIT: To be clear, according to all the Concussion Ed courses I've taken, there is no such thing as a minor brain injury.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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First time I’ve watched much of an Amazon broadcast — Herbstreit’s analysis isn’t bad, but his cowardly refusal to refer to the head injury and its implications is pathetic. And all controversies (eg Tua’s “tight knit family”)
 

Marciano490

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Well that’ll be a pleasant flight home for Tua. Hope they have some excedrin for that “migraine” he’ll be dealing with.
 

sodenj5

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Just announced in the broadcast that Tua will be discharged from the hospital and should be traveling home with the team.
 

luckiestman

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First time I’ve watched much of an Amazon broadcast — Herbstreit’s analysis isn’t bad, but his cowardly refusal to refer to the head injury and its implications is pathetic.
He’s not bad but he is not good either. He does not love the pro game as much as he does college and that is very obvious. Breaking up Al and Chris is a disaster.
 

cornwalls@6

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Unless nobody anywhere can be trusted, that’s good news about Tua getting released tonight and traveling. Can’t imagine a well regarded trauma center would ok that, if they thought there was any meaningful risk. Cautious optimism he dodged a terrible tragedy tonight. But for the love of god, all involved, sit him indefinitely.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Unless nobody anywhere can be trusted, that’s good news about Tua getting released tonight and traveling. Can’t imagine a well regarded trauma would ok that, if they thought there was any meaningful risk. Cautious optimism he dodged a terrible tragedy tonight. But for the love of god, all involved, sit him indefinitely.
Yeah, I mean it’s amazing news that his life isn’t in danger tonight.

But let’s get an actual protocol in place before he takes the field again.
 

8slim

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The first thing you learn is that all concussions are serious. I'm not trying to be flippant but that is what you learn... first.. for a reason. Because we still have people who want to let people in positions of power off the hook for their moral and ethical (and sometimes professional) choices not to treat concussions or even suspected concussions as serious.

I am confident that he was absolutely more susceptible to a second concussion as a result of the first one happening just four days ago. This is also taught in Concussion Ed. Finally, he is also further susceptible to lifelong suffering as a result of not healing from the first one.

EDIT: To be clear, according to all the Concussion Ed courses I've taken, there is no such thing as a minor brain injury.
I don’t recall saying anything about “minor” brain injuries.
 

Marciano490

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I mean, the line about him traveling home tonight is a little much. I’m not a millionaire, but I’d be booking a hotel close to the hospital and buying a shitload of aspirin and an eye mask for the morning. I’m sure he’ll be on the plane, but that’s not what he wants to be doing. That’s a PR stunt.
 

Marciano490

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Oh look at Michael Holley - good for that dude. And bringing some heat on the Tua situation.
 

ifmanis5

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First time I’ve watched much of an Amazon broadcast — Herbstreit’s analysis isn’t bad, but his cowardly refusal to refer to the head injury and its implications is pathetic. And all controversies (eg Tua’s “tight knit family”)
Yes but it wasn't just him.
View: https://twitter.com/MichaelDavSmith/status/1575667863679115268

As an active player, Richard Sherman was one of the most vocal critics of Thursday Night Football, arguing that it was dangerous for players to play with so little time off between games. Now he cashes a paycheck on Thursday Night Football and ignores the issue after Tua's injury
 

Jimbodandy

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I mean, the line about him traveling home tonight is a little much. I’m not a millionaire, but I’d be booking a hotel close to the hospital and buying a shitload of aspirin and an eye mask for the morning. I’m sure he’ll be on the plane, but that’s not what he wants to be doing. That’s a PR stunt.
Yep. Best thing that they could do for him now is to hunker him down in a hotel with someone on the training staff to watch over him for a couple of days. Fly him home after a few more of the effects have worn off. He's probably going to be sensitive to most things tonight and tomorrow. I'd keep him away from flying, loud noises, bright lights, everything. Doubt a noisy team plane is the best thing for him.
 

scott bankheadcase

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I’m shocked prime is even getting to this level of discourse about it. I’m actually impressed. It’s a low bar but I thought everyone would ignore it.
 

Jimbodandy

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Thanks. Soooo, a guy with a concussion ain’t supposed to fly a couple hours later, right? What the hell is going on?
Not a doc, but he shouldn't in the sense that it will be uncomfortable for him. And it's riskier. Like every subsequent concussion within a time window makes it that much easier to have another one and that much worse if you do. Like tonight, a half-hearted slap on the back could throw him into a seizure. And the noise and light might cause him to vomit or faint. He should be treated like the world's last dodo egg right now, if they care about his health.

If they care about optics, they'll move back to business as usual and float a "Tua is being evaluated by all of the best, independent doctors" PR spin and fly him home and get him in front of a mic as soon as possible.
 

worm0082

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I can’t believe they are flying him back like this. The optics alone are terrible.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Here