Week 9 Game Thread

Jed Zeppelin

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it looked like he was just making a play on the ball and woods knew it was uncatchable. couple other missed calls at the end there though, between the late hit and the near side guy getting mugged on the 4th down play.

i thought for sure taylor was throwing it to shady on 3rd when they split him out.
This was brutal. I'll take Shady and 10 yards to the nearest defender any day. Worst case he gets to like the 5 and you can open up the playbook on 4th down without worrying about the clock. Best case he shuffles off his mortal coil and phase shifts into the endzone.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think Taylor would really be excellent with better coaching.
And with some real receivers. Watkins is always hurt, Woods played great tonight but is more of a WR3, Goodwin is Tony Simmons 2.0, and the rest aren't worth mentioning. I feel like McCoy isn't used in the passing game nearly enough.
 

nothumb

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And with some real receivers. Watkins is always hurt, Woods played great tonight but is more of a WR3, Goodwin is Tony Simmons 2.0, and the rest aren't worth mentioning. I feel like McCoy isn't used in the passing game nearly enough.
I'm not sure Taylor's weapons are that much worse than, say, some of the teams Russell Wilson has had, and he has a somewhat comparable skill set (more accurate though). McCoy, Clay, Hopkins and Woods is probably in the same neighborhood as Lynch, Willson, Baldwin and Kearse when all are healthy.
 

nothumb

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Seattle is fine getting penalized the first 55 minutes of every game because the refs still let them mug everybody at the end.

It'll be hilarious when that ends in NE next week and they act like the NFL hasn't already gifted them 2-3 wins this season and they're somehow victims. Seattle whining about flags is like when straight white dudes complain that they can't get ahead in America anymore.
 

Harry Hooper

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Taylor was out of the pocket - so it is a 100% legal hit

Really? IIRC, Taylor stepped up into the pocket before making his pass attempt on that play.

BTW, Blandino already went on NFL Network and talked about how the officials messed up the sequence at the end of the 1st half.
 

riboflav

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Is pushing a WR to the ground... i.e. leveling him, considered tackling? We need the rule explaining what constitutes tackling.
 

Harry Hooper

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Interesting to read this 2013 analysis:

In today’s NFL, quarterbacks routinely look to leave the pocket. This typically stresses the defense because it forces the secondary to cover for longer, but it is often forgotten that once a quarterback leaves the pocket defensive backs can become as physical as they like with the receivers they are covering. As soon as the opposing quarterback leaves the pocket against the Seahawks, Sherman is always looking to knock his assignment to the ground.

This may seem like a cheap move to the uninformed, but it is the smartest way to stop receivers from making big plays against you. The quickness of thought to recognize the scenario and his understanding of the rules is something that not every player possesses, even at this level.
 
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Jed Zeppelin

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Right, the restriction on defensive holding remains in effect. As in, you still can't tackle or hold a receiver.

I mean, why should a full two-handed shove that knocks a player to the ground only count as a tackle when he has the ball?

At the end of the day I don't really care, it would only be 5 yards and they'd still need 10 to score, plus they had already blown it in the previous possession when they were in scoring range. The real travesty is and will always be the end of the first half. I know they don't seem to call out of pocket knockdowns like that but I'm not really sure why based on what the rulebook says about holding. Of course, anything that requires parsing the language of the rulebook is folly on my part.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think the much better case for a penalty there was Thomas's bump on Woods. Neither was a terrible no-call. The worst one there was the CB driving his helmet into Taylor on 3rd down, should have been 1st and goal from the 4 or so.
 

j44thor

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Walt Anderson already admitted they screwed up the delay of game at the end of the half because they took too long to get the K ball in. How can all the officials get together and not realize they should have reset the play clock when the ball still wasn't in play until there was 4 seconds?

They should all receive a fine equivalent to their pay for last night's game.
 

BigJimEd

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Right, the restriction on defensive holding remains in effect. As in, you still can't tackle or hold a receiver.

I mean, why should a full two-handed shove that knocks a player to the ground only count as a tackle when he has the ball?

At the end of the day I don't really care, it would only be 5 yards and they'd still need 10 to score, plus they had already blown it in the previous possession when they were in scoring range. The real travesty is and will always be the end of the first half. I know they don't seem to call out of pocket knockdowns like that but I'm not really sure why based on what the rulebook says about holding. Of course, anything that requires parsing the language of the rulebook is folly on my part.
My understanding of that rule has been that once the QB is out of the pocket, it's a running play and the receivers are now potential blockers.
Similar to an LB or DL shoving the lead blocker to the ground. That is perfectly legal.
But defense can still be called for holding on a run play for grabbing the jersey or wrapping up a non ball carrier whether that be the OL or WR.
 

tims4wins

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I thought the NFL league offices were now in communication with the crews for these administrative type of situations? Where is the accountability of the league office here? #integrity
 

Harry Hooper

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I thought the NFL league offices were now in communication with the crews for these administrative type of situations? Where is the accountability of the league office here? #integrity
The failure to reset the play clock shouldn't have happened, but even worse is that it was eminently fixable. Never mind hearing from NY HQ, somebody in the crew should have prompted them to go over what had just transpired, and then a "Please reset the play clock..." announcement should have followed.
 

Sox and Rocks

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To me, the most surprising aspect of that end of half abortion was not that the officials screwed up twice, because we know that NFL officiating is often incompetent, but rather that Rex Ryan was smart enough to run the spike play so his kicker could go back in for the kick. That was quick thinking when the tendency is to keep yelling at the refs, and the kind of level-headed decision making I wouldn't expect from Mr. foot fetish.
 

edmunddantes

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This makes total sense...


Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman has been fined for what NFL senior vice president of officiating Dean Blandino said should have been an unnecessary roughness penalty during last Monday night’s victory over the Bill, but the officials who should have called the foul will reportedly avoid league discipline.

Adam Caplan of ESPN reports that neither referee Walt Anderson nor any members of his officiating crew will be disciplined for the way they handled a series of events at the end of the first half. After Sherman, who was offside, plowed into Bills kicker Dan Carpenterin a dead ball situation, officials stood over the ball to reset it while the play clock ran down.

The Bills were flagged for delay of game and missed the ensuing 54-yard field goal, but Anderson and Blandino both said that the clock should have been reset following Sherman’s offside penalty.

While the missed penalty on Sherman has generated more attention, the inattention to detail regarding the game clock may have been the bigger miss by Anderson and crew. Penalties for actions on the field do get missed by human beings and replay isn’t permitted to offer a helping hand, but the more mundane administration of things like the game or play clock have resulted in discipline in the past. Side judge Rob Vernatchi was suspended for a week after 18 seconds ran off the clock erroneously in a Chargers-Steelers game last year.
 

tims4wins

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Honestly I think they screwed up in fining Sherman. The more I think about and see the play, the more I think the refs only screw-up was the delay of game penalty.
 

BigJimEd

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Honestly I think they screwed up in fining Sherman. The more I think about and see the play, the more I think the refs only screw-up was the delay of game penalty.
I missed it live and just the highlight on nfl.com last night. The only whistle I heard was after contact was made. Sherman made contact with the ball so unless there was a whistle I didn't hear, I would agree there shouldn't have been a penalty or fine.

Sherman did take a strange angle but not nearly enough for me to think he was trying to hurt the kicker.

Refs maybe could have blown the play dead earlier.
 

edmunddantes

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Explain further
You are only allowed to spike the ball to stop a running clock.

PFT had it from another team official

A source with a team not connected to the Bills-Seahawks game, intrigued by the ruling, did a little more digging. The NFL’s Official Casebook contains a variety of “Approved Rulings” that demonstrate the application of the rules. And here’s the content of A.R. 8.87: “The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. [The quarterback] takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out the clock.”

The approved ruling? “Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.”

While not a clear apples-to-apples comparison, since the Bills didn’t spike the ball to consume time but to consume a snap so that kicker Dan Carpenter could return to the game, the language is unmistakable: “A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock.”
 

edmunddantes

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So here's the thing, if the Bills did end up making the kick at half. The Seahawks would then have their own legitimate beef that the kick shouldn't have counted.

It goes to show how screwed up that final part of the half was, and yet there will be no discipline.

GJGE NFL