West Finals: Sharks vs. Blues

[TFP]

PSK has it. I don’t trust the NHL to get review on everything right. They can’t get review right on the shit they review now. I don’t want to give them more chances to fuck shit up.

What bothers me is that this is something that is blatantly obvious live. Like..”get fired if you’re an AHL ref and miss this call” obvious. Same as the puck into the netting call. It’s clear that with 4 officials on the ice they’re just not watching the puck. Watch when a puck goes out of play next time, it’s a full 2-3 second delay before a whistle is blown because no one is watching the puck. One guy should be responsible for watching the puck, and I blame the general officiating of the NHL for this. It’s a methodology/process problem. It’s embarrassing and inexcusable and a black eye for the sport.

Expanding review is not the answer. Fixing the quality and methodology of the officiating is the answer.

 

[InstaFace]

where does Binnington stack up among the league's goalies?

 

[TFP]

Holy shit they even credited Meier with the assist! That’s unbelievable.

 

[cshea]

I think the ref behind the net got blocked out by Schenn. Not sure where the other 3 jabroni’s were and what they were looking at.


Edit: the linesman on the near side that cleared the zone entry looked to have his eyes on the play, albeit through some traffic.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

Holy shit they even credited Meier with the assist! That’s unbelievable.

I mean, is that the NHL just trolling people? I’m pretty sure the league has their own people doing the off-ice stuff in the playoffs, so it shouldn’t be some Blues employee pointing out the absurdity.

 

[TFP]

I’d really like to ask the NHL (whoever that is - Stephen Walkom?) if they even think there’s a problem. If they say no, then I’m fucking done. If they say “yes...but we have no clue how to fix it” then at least I can understand that.

What sucks about all if this (and same goes for the NFL) is that tweaks won’t help. More review doesn’t help. The game has changed a lot and needs to be simplified so that officials can focus on the speed and not be burdened by a ton of rules.

Also - I’d abolish review completely.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

One Boston team already had to remedy an unreviewable injustice in the other conference’s championship this year. Maybe it happens again.

 

[TFP]

Ok it’s way too late and I should be asleep but this is really bothering me. I’d love to know what the officials are trained to watch in a situation like this.

The ref behind the net clearly has the toughest job. He has to watch all of the interference and stick infractions happening. Plus he’s down in the action and has to be aware of getting hit by a puck at all times. He gets a complete pass.

There are two linesemen on the blue line. There’s no risk of offside. No risk of too many men. What are they trained to watch? It’s an honest question, I really don’t know. One of them (minimum) should be watching the puck. Maybe both.

The 2nd ref is god knows where. Maybe he should watch the puck, maybe he should be watching for penalties behind the play. I’d defer to him watching penalties to be honest.

So ultimately - why aren’t the linesmen watching this? Are they trained to? If not - what are they trained to watch instead and why? If they are trained for this, what were they watching instead? And why aren’t any reporters asking these questions instead of lazy platitudes about why this isn’t reviewable?

Ok - now I’m done.

 

[DourDoerr]

That was a hosing. Half of my friends are Sharks fans and even they're somewhat pissed. Don't want the taint.

 

[bosockboy]

This will be the “Blues Rule” eventually.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

That was a hosing. Half of my friends are Sharks fans and even they're somewhat pissed. Don't want the taint.

That’s the problem with bad officiating. You don’t just screw the Blues but also the Sharks and their fans who still had a chance to win the game without the help but now have this little piece taken out of their win.

Ok it’s way too late and I should be asleep but this is really bothering me. I’d love to know what the officials are trained to watch in a situation like this.

The ref behind the net clearly has the toughest job. He has to watch all of the interference and stick infractions happening. Plus he’s down in the action and has to be aware of getting hit by a puck at all times. He gets a complete pass.

There are two linesemen on the blue line. There’s no risk of offside. No risk of too many men. What are they trained to watch? It’s an honest question, I really don’t know. One of them (minimum) should be watching the puck. Maybe both.

The 2nd ref is god knows where. Maybe he should watch the puck, maybe he should be watching for penalties behind the play. I’d defer to him watching penalties to be honest.

So ultimately - why aren’t the linesmen watching this? Are they trained to? If not - what are they trained to watch instead and why? If they are trained for this, what were they watching instead? And why aren’t any reporters asking these questions instead of lazy platitudes about why this isn’t reviewable?

Ok - now I’m done.

I think it’s the offensive zone ref’s responsibility. But you can totally see how he might miss it. He has to watch the crease and the puck. He is probably going back and forth with his eyes. He has backup by video of 99 percent of what he’s looking at. If it’s a puck off the hand into the net it’s reviewable. Interference, pucks off feet, even high stick goals, and high stick passes should be visible to the trailing officials.

I can’t remember a handpass by the offense that close to the goal in a scoring attempt. It just doesn’t happen. If this happens between the hash marks he probably sees it. If it happens above the waist, one or more of the trailers sees it. But at ice level deep and outside while he’s got the crease? Maybe he sees it but not shocking that he didn’t.

 

[mauf]

Do any major sports leagues allow officials’ judgment calls to be reviewed on replay?

I know the NFL is going to do so on a limited basis in the wake of the Rams-Saints debacle, but I can’t think of any other examples.

 

[cshea]

Hockey already does, goalie interference.

 

[j44thor]

That’s the problem with bad officiating. You don’t just screw the Blues but also the Sharks and their fans who still had a chance to win the game without the help but now have this little piece taken out of their win.



I think it’s the offensive zone ref’s responsibility. But you can totally see how he might miss it. He has to watch the crease and the puck. He is probably going back and forth with his eyes. He has backup by video of 99 percent of what he’s looking at. If it’s a puck off the hand into the net it’s reviewable. Interference, pucks off feet, even high stick goals, and high stick passes should be visible to the trailing officials.

I can’t remember a handpass by the offense that close to the goal in a scoring attempt. It just doesn’t happen. If this happens between the hash marks he probably sees it. If it happens above the waist, one or more of the trailers sees it. But at ice level deep and outside while he’s got the crease? Maybe he sees it but not shocking that he didn’t.

Wasn't the puck the responsibility of one of the linesman when it went out of play in the BOS/CBJ game? I think the simple solution is to make any plays on the puck in the offensive zone (or defensive for delay of game until they abolish the worst rule in sports) reviewable. You can't review for stick infractions/player intereference etc. but high sticks leading directly to a goal ala Chris Wagner earlier this year and obviously a freaking hand pass in OT should be really easy, really quick reviews.

Either that or you assign a 5th official who sits in the booth and watches the puck exclusively. Don't they have alternate refs available for playoff games? Why not keep them engaged in the game and have them sit in the booth to assist the on ice officials for obvious calls that are somehow missed live.

As far as fixing replay I'd like to see the system switch to real speed video only. If it isn't apparent in real speed let the call stand. Sports aren't played in slow motion thus they shouldn't be expected to be officiated as such. Actually I'd like to see all sports officiated in real time speed only.

 

[joe dokes]

As far as fixing replay I'd like to see the system switch to real speed video only. If it isn't apparent in real speed let the call stand. Sports aren't played in slow motion thus they shouldn't be expected to be officiated as such. Actually I'd like to see all sports officiated in real time speed only.

Intellectually, I agree with the real-speed replay. Without regard for whether this should be a consideration, I assume that the leagues wouldn't go for that because the millions of eyeballs at home will see the slo-mo at home and know if the call was "right." That sort of undercuts their last refuge -- "yeah, these delays kinda suck, but we want to make sure the call is right."

You can't review for stick infractions/player intereference etc. but high sticks leading directly to a goal ala Chris Wagner earlier this year and obviously a freaking hand pass in OT should be really easy, really quick reviews.

Yes. "Leading directly to a goal" shouldn't be that hard to define. Maybe something like "if the guy who scored did it, or who would get an assist."

 

[DJnVa]

Why not take a route similar to the NFL and make every single goal possible to hat is a brutal, brutal break for the Blues, clearly a handpass.

Sure, but even in the NFL, they can review a TD but can't overturn it even if the receiver obviously committed offensive pass interference.

The issue is that they can make VERY easy things reviewable, but they haven't--puck into net, hand pass.

And all that aside how did the on-ice officials not see it? That's the first travesty.

 

[The Napkin]

I’d really like to ask the NHL (whoever that is - Stephen Walkom?) if they even think there’s a problem. If they say no, then I’m fucking done. If they say “yes...but we have no clue how to fix it” then at least I can understand that.

They should absolutely make an official available for media after every playoff game. Doesn't even have to be one of the on ice guys, though it should be.

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

Ok it’s way too late and I should be asleep but this is really bothering me. I’d love to know what the officials are trained to watch in a situation like this.

The ref behind the net clearly has the toughest job. He has to watch all of the interference and stick infractions happening. Plus he’s down in the action and has to be aware of getting hit by a puck at all times. He gets a complete pass.

There are two linesemen on the blue line. There’s no risk of offside. No risk of too many men. What are they trained to watch? It’s an honest question, I really don’t know. One of them (minimum) should be watching the puck. Maybe both.

The 2nd ref is god knows where. Maybe he should watch the puck, maybe he should be watching for penalties behind the play. I’d defer to him watching penalties to be honest.

So ultimately - why aren’t the linesmen watching this? Are they trained to? If not - what are they trained to watch instead and why? If they are trained for this, what were they watching instead? And why aren’t any reporters asking these questions instead of lazy platitudes about why this isn’t reviewable?

Ok - now I’m done.

A couple of quick screen caps from the video on NBCSN.

Here you can see one of the linesman and the ref when Meier is on the ground right before the hand pass.

When Meier first makes contact with the puck he's got his back to the ref and possibly the linesman can't see his hand either.

When Meier actually pushes the puck, the linesman looks to be obstructed by Blues player. This camera angle makes it tough to tell but the ref may have been obstructed by the Shark skating between him and Meier.

This angle is a bit better keeping in mind the ref in the shot above is just a bit this side of center ice.

And that just killed about 30 minutes of time marching towards 8PM.

 

[The Raccoon]

Do any major sports leagues allow officials’ judgment calls to be reviewed on replay?

I know the NFL is going to do so on a limited basis in the wake of the Rams-Saints debacle, but I can’t think of any other examples.

The Mookie (Non-)Catch in Houston (ALCS G3 was it?) was kind of a judgement call as well. If the ball is uncatchable (3 feet higher), I don't think it matters if any contact of a fan and his glove happened.

And as a fan of European / German Soccer I can tell you, that after 25+ years of watching Bundesliga, I don't understand anymore, what is or isn't a illegal contact of the ball with your hand, because the new (2nd season is about to end this weekend) replay rules are hust horrible for this kind of judgement calls.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

I’d really like to ask the NHL (whoever that is - Stephen Walkom?) if they even think there’s a problem. If they say no, then I’m fucking done. If they say “yes...but we have no clue how to fix it” then at least I can understand that.

What sucks about all if this (and same goes for the NFL) is that tweaks won’t help. More review doesn’t help. The game has changed a lot and needs to be simplified so that officials can focus on the speed and not be burdened by a ton of rules.

Also - I’d abolish review completely.

This is a league that made a specific rule about skaters being in the crease and then didn't bother to enforce it on a Stanley Cup winning goal. With or without review, they are going to suck.

 

[InstaFace]

This is a league that made a specific rule about skaters being in the crease and then didn't bother to enforce it on a Stanley Cup winning goal. With or without review, they are going to suck.

Are you from Buffalo? That's not at all how I view the incident you're talking about. They botched the communication about the rule, but not the ruling on that play. Here's a deep-review video about it, starting from the point where they elaborate on the rule (but the whole thing is worth a view, especially if you're killing time between now and 8:00pm):

 

[Red Right Ankle]

Haha, no not from Buffalo (though I was a huge Hasek fan as a kid - he was like Tim Thomas' platonic form).

I never heard about that memo. I still maintain that the league fucked that up, but for different reasons. They should have publicized the change as soon as they made it.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I don't know anything about reffing mechanics, but from that picture it kind of looks as though the ref is exactly where you'd want him to be. He has himself lined up well to see both the crease and the puck. He can't see through the body.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Rooting hard for the Blues because I don't want any West coast start times and my inlaws still live there.

[/Old man logic].

 

[cshea]

Blues score 25 seconds in

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

San Jose’s penalty kill is suffocating.

 

[Maximus]

San Jose’s penalty kill is suffocating.

It is really good, they are very aggressive.

 

[coremiller]

The Sharks have been called for two extremely marginal hooking calls in the first period. I understand the impulse, but c'mon NHL, try not to make it so obvious.

 

[Maximus]

Good start for the Blues

 

[coremiller]

Also frustrating that the Sharks scored twice in that period, both in the wrong net.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Blues fans holding onto their butts atm

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Blues are pissing this game and series away.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Also, is it appropriate to game thread in here?

 

[TFP]

Also, is it appropriate to game thread in here?

Yes.

 

[Zososoxfan]

That seems very obviously too many men

 

[catomatic]

TMM for sure, yeah?

 

[Zososoxfan]

That was a wicked shot

 

[Marciano490]

Binnington almost made a big booboo.

 

[TSC]

No idea how the Sharks didn't score on that scramble.

 

[Maximus]

Blues insist on icing it

 

[Marciano490]

Gloria time!

 

[genoasalami]

2-2 = more rest for Bs

 

[Marciano490]

Binnington looks like he really overcommits on shots and passes. Hope we get to take advantage.

 

[bosockboy]

Blues will win Game 5 in SJ.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Really wish I could decide who I want to see win this series.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Think I’m leaning Saint Louis

 

[locknload]

Think I’m leaning Saint Louis

St Louis. Unless karlsson or burns get hurt.

 

[bosockboy]

Blues laying the wood on them.

 

[Maximus]

Think I’m leaning Saint Louis

Rooting for the Blues. SJ is a dangerous team with a lot of elite talent.

 

[LogansDad]

Rooting for the Blues. SJ is a dangerous team with a lot of elite talent.

Rooting for SJ because I'm selfish, but also because in the little I have watched St Louis, Binnington appears to be a goalie who handles the puck a lot, and is good at it. The Bruins have had trouble this year getting a good forecheck going against goalies who are aggressive and good at keeping the play moving back up the boards. Also, I think overall he is better than Jones.