Okay, so the team has filled the DH spot. What do you think the greatest area of need is at this exact moment? For this exercise, let's pretend we don't need clarity on the Devers situation.
What is the greatest need right now?
- Thread starter billy ashley
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I voted OF as priority one, but I don't see a huge drop off to middle infield and another small drop off to the rotation. It's like 1A, 1B, 1C to me.
We could go with Story and Arroyo in some configuration in the middle infield. I would prefer to improve that situation, but it would work, at least until somebody got hurt. We could roll the dice with our current 6-8 starting pitchers, of whom only Pivetta is really a known quantity — or as much of a known quantity as pitchers ever are. There's tons of upside in the group, which is tantalizing. But, there are also enough question marks that, again, adding another option seems prudent.
But I think we all know, today, that a Yoshida/Hernández/Verdugo/Refsnyder outfield needs work.
Personally, I am a Houck skeptic, so I would trade him while he's valuable to address either the OF or IF challenge, and then replace him in free agency.
We could go with Story and Arroyo in some configuration in the middle infield. I would prefer to improve that situation, but it would work, at least until somebody got hurt. We could roll the dice with our current 6-8 starting pitchers, of whom only Pivetta is really a known quantity — or as much of a known quantity as pitchers ever are. There's tons of upside in the group, which is tantalizing. But, there are also enough question marks that, again, adding another option seems prudent.
But I think we all know, today, that a Yoshida/Hernández/Verdugo/Refsnyder outfield needs work.
Personally, I am a Houck skeptic, so I would trade him while he's valuable to address either the OF or IF challenge, and then replace him in free agency.
Not depth but a front line SP is needed. Sale & co are not up to the #1 role anymore.
It was a toss for me between that and a new CBO.
It was a toss for me between that and a new CBO.
I probably fall more in the "other" camp but that is a bit of a cop out since you could pretty much go through every aspect of both on-field and off-field operations to find flaws right now - so I went with "Moar Bullpen" mainly because I think the team will struggle to score runs at the clip we've been used to (even when not winning) and you can't simply wave a magic wand and say "add a couple silver slugger level bats" nor are there many front line starting pitchers busking for a contract on Boylston Street (plus "moar" - what the hell is that?). That leaves you dependent on beefing up what might (might) be a developing strength, which is the pen. I like a couple of the signings they've made and I think there is still talent to be mined out there. We can actually add wins by having a pen that gets you from innings 4-9 while you scratch and claw some runs back. While I certainly see a need I just don't see much of a realistic path towards strengthening the OF, SS or SP given the fact that the purse strings seem tighter than every English soccer fan's butthole when they hear the words "penalty shot".
I voted starting pitching, but more top end than depth. I was hoping for an Eovaldi reunion but at this point he may be weighing 4 or 5 year offers.
I have seen several people say things like "we have no OF" or that the OF sucks, and while there is quite a bit of risk there, I am curious what you see changing before opening day. Yoshida was signed for starter money and coupled with Turner it seems certain he will be in LF most games. Same for Kike in CF. I could see them going for a better defensive RF and trading Verdugo (the Kepler scenario most likely) or getting a 4th OF with a better track record than Refsnyder, but these seem like small improvements. What would you like to see happen with the group we already have?
Spend to the tax level to build the best club you can with the restriction of being very careful with long term commitments, at least until the farm starts producing cheap talent to offset those deals, because it was the drought of such players that put them in this spot, not the failure to sign Mookie Betts to a long term deal.
That's the plan. It's been the plan for the past few years. I'm not saying it's been executed perfectly (the JBJ deal was disaster with and without hindsight), or even that it's the best plan they could follow. But they very clearly have a plan, and that it what it is.
As to the question at hand, the biggest need is a SS or 2B, depending on what they do with Story.
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I voted SS, because I have been convinced by the many people on here who don't think that he can hack it there anymore. I have no idea if that's true, but the logic behind it seems reasonable at the very least.
More starting pitching is a close second, though.
More starting pitching is a close second, though.
I went with OF as we still need a strong defensive RF. One who can also hit would be great.
I'm ok with shifting Story to SS and Arroyo to 2b for now. Fingers crossed, the talk of Story's arm strength are much ado about nothing.
Correct answer may have been "all of the above"
I'm ok with shifting Story to SS and Arroyo to 2b for now. Fingers crossed, the talk of Story's arm strength are much ado about nothing.
Correct answer may have been "all of the above"
I'd vote pitching if I felt there was a good durable pitcher available, but Eo doesn't seem like a good fit (and I'm not sure any of the FAs available do). The primary concern with the staff is having guys not named Pivetta and Bello who can reliably take the mound every 5th day.
But I don't see an immediate fit for that role unless they swing a trade, so I see them hoping no more than 2 of the Sale/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck group are down at a time, and bringing Crawford in as necessary. Not exactly pretty, but I think we have more flexibility in that department than we do in the middle infield and relying on Arroyo to hold down a starting role. Could we muster a trade for Kim?
I agree that SS is 1st need--why move Story off 2B, where his defense has been great, especially when his defense at SS could be something of a liability (based on concerns about his arm)? I'd be glad if they pick up a good defensive SS who doesn't hit all that much. Close behind SS, though, is OF--Verdugo in RF at Fenway is less than ideal, to put it mildly. Starting pitching obviously has question marks, but it's possible to see a path to decency there (of course, a lot depends on health). I like the additions to the bullpen--potential for significant improvement over last year.
I would like to trade Verdugo and acquire a young OF with upside who can play Fenway’s RF. The Diamondbacks have an OF glut, for example.
Clearly a SS or 2B. I'm okay with Story at SS but I really don't like any of the 2B (or SS) free agents available. A trade is really the only thing I can see happening but perhaps Bloom sees Valdez as more defensively competent than I do.
I'm good with the bullpen and with the rotation. Yeah.... health is always an issue and the warning meter is higher than on other teams but that's the situation when your "ace" is a crazily paid often injured guy. Bloom actually addressed it pretty well last season but the sheer volume of injuries hitting all at once was too overwhelming.
I still think defense is overrated in MLB and the difference between a great outfield and an average outfield is minimal over the course of a year... maybe a game or two. The Phillies possibly had the most embarrassing defense in the world, and offensive underperformance from a big FA signing and they still won 2 games in the WS.
The bullpen is currently a strength and has some depth in the minors.
With the addition of a 2B/SS over the existing quality, the team will be better than most think here. 85-88 wins is possible if health is just better than last year-to-average time on the DL for high end players
I'm good with the bullpen and with the rotation. Yeah.... health is always an issue and the warning meter is higher than on other teams but that's the situation when your "ace" is a crazily paid often injured guy. Bloom actually addressed it pretty well last season but the sheer volume of injuries hitting all at once was too overwhelming.
I still think defense is overrated in MLB and the difference between a great outfield and an average outfield is minimal over the course of a year... maybe a game or two. The Phillies possibly had the most embarrassing defense in the world, and offensive underperformance from a big FA signing and they still won 2 games in the WS.
The bullpen is currently a strength and has some depth in the minors.
With the addition of a 2B/SS over the existing quality, the team will be better than most think here. 85-88 wins is possible if health is just better than last year-to-average time on the DL for high end players
I think one of the biggest problems with defense right now is that we're in an era where there's fewer balls in play than through MLB history. The five lowest seasons per BIP have occurred, well... in the last five years.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml
I went outfield. I think we can get by with Story and Hernandez/Arroyo at SS/2B just fine, but it's hard to have any real optimism about the outfield especially if Arroyo/Hernandez are going to be seeing more time in the infield next year.
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Pitching. This rotation scares me to death. We need more competent starters, or we'll be hearing the same "but everyone got hurt at the same time" points as we did last season.
I do think IF defense is likely going to be more important going forward (and I suspect Bloom put on a public media show about X but saw his likely regression and defense as liabilities within a year)... but OF defense isn't.
I voted SP. This appears to be the biggest problem. I would also find a good defensive SS. I'm old enough to remember when that was the priority for this position. Mainly because I think the 2023 rules changes are going to again favor a small ball type of game. But, if they don't extend Devers (who I think will benefit from the rules changes) or trade him, then it's going to be a tough season. He's going to know he's headed out the door and I'm not sure he's mature enough to perform well in that situation.
I prefer that they get that defensive RF that most of us seem to agree that is missing, but I also want Verdugo to remain unless he can be part of a package that brings back a player that fills a real need for at least 4-5 years. As I have mentioned before I like the makeup of a 4 man rotation of Yoshida/Verdugo in LF, Kike'/Kepler in CF and Kepler/Verdugo in RF with RFsnyder as your 5th OF/Jack of all trades. I'm hoping Turner can utilize the full off season and full ST to familiarize himself enough at 1B so that he can become the RH option at the position and that the DH slot can be available on those days to used in other ways.
Verdugo was fine in RF in 2020 and 2021, and awful last year.
UZR/150:
2020: 0.8 in 246.2 innings in RF
2021: 9.2 in 173 innings in RF
2022: -17.3 in 432.1 innings in RF
He looked noticeably slower last year, and it seems like Cora agrees with that. At the end of the season, he publicly challenged Verdugo to get in better shape and improve his defense and baserunning this year.
I don't remember Cora actually calling out one of his players in public like that before. I think the team expects him to be in better shape this year and to be better on the field and on the bases.
UZR/150:
2020: 0.8 in 246.2 innings in RF
2021: 9.2 in 173 innings in RF
2022: -17.3 in 432.1 innings in RF
He looked noticeably slower last year, and it seems like Cora agrees with that. At the end of the season, he publicly challenged Verdugo to get in better shape and improve his defense and baserunning this year.
I don't remember Cora actually calling out one of his players in public like that before. I think the team expects him to be in better shape this year and to be better on the field and on the bases.
Thanks, the Dbacks OF are definitely an interesting option. I think ultimately too expensive prospect wise, but if Bloom is going to spend real prospect capital that kind of long-term control is the only time it makes sense (IMO anyway).
I agree with almost all of this, I would be very happy to add Kepler to the RF/CF mix and Refsnyder's (lack of) track record makes him best suited for 5th OF. I am not really convinced it makes sense to keep Verdugo as another LHH though. Swapping him out for someone from the Pollock/Myers/Duvall group would provide better balance to the OF rotation.
As far as trading Verdugo, what do others think he brings back? A mid-level prospect? Relief pitcher? Does Verdugo/Houck get Ha-seong Kim?
BTV thinks Houck (or Schreiber) for Kim straight up is fair, no Verdugo necessary.
other: Resolution on the Devers extension saga - the answer to that question will show more of what the plan is for everything else going forward.
Kim is super interesting. Obviously the Padres just picked up an extra infielder so he could be available. Of course SD is in win now mode so I don’t think they’d be looking for prospects. Wonder if Schreiber would be appealing to them.
Actually a Verdugo trade I'd be interested in that BTV thinks is fair or even a slight overpay is for Nate Eaton from KC. 25, RHB, still rookie eligible, kind of a noodle bat but still a 101 WRC+ to Verdugo's 103 this year. He seems to hit LHP well at least, but the arm and legs are absolutely elite MLB calibre and the real draw: the best overall arm in baseball last year, and 97th percentile sprint speed. His overall defensive metrics are brought down by splitting time at 3B where he wasn't great, but in RF statcast rated him at a 7% Success Rate added, aka Dalton Varsho level.
I'm fully basing this off numbers on websites, so anyone can tell me why he's actually terrible or that the Royals love him and would never let him go, but those defensive numbers do look really juicy to me and BTV thinks he's obtainable at least.
I'm fully basing this off numbers on websites, so anyone can tell me why he's actually terrible or that the Royals love him and would never let him go, but those defensive numbers do look really juicy to me and BTV thinks he's obtainable at least.
Count me in the camp of not trading Schreiber or Houck. If this team is going to compete it's going to be on the strength of a deeper pitching staff. That being said, I'd be all for acquiring a defense first Shortstop and Kim fits that bill. Also Hoerner from the Cubs, what's their plan with him?
The question that jumps out at me is why would the Royals trade a guy with 6 years of control for a slightly older but definitely more expensive one with only 2 years of control? Seems like the only thing that might make Verdugo attractive to the Royals is if they think their lineup is unbalanced and swapping Eaton for Verdugo's LHB would change that.
I also voted for "moar bullpen"
An increasingly important aspect of the game. Watching last year's team--and then the postseason--made it abundantly clear this team is miles behind.
There's been some decent additions, but we're still looking at 55 innings of Brasier as things currently stand.
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Yep, I have no idea and I don't follow KC to tell you what they need; maybe it would require a larger trade with more pieces on both sides. Eaton was just a name that jumped out as a way of upgrading RF defensively without completely decapitating the offense or costing the full farm.
Verdugo isn’t particularly cheap anymore; he looks like a potential non tender a year from now. I doubt he has a ton of value right now, especially to a non contender.
I think the biggest need is a starting pitcher who would be a higher-grade Pivetta, a guy who goes to the post each time out but with more consistent results. I have no father that Sale or Paxton contributes greatly this season, and I'm concerned about the innings situation with Whitlock.
Any targets in mind?
As is I don't mind seeing more Crawford, and hopefully Mata is ready to contribute in the summer. I just really don't want more of the Seabold/Winckowski experience.
I’m just echoing what the SoxProspects guys said on their podcast, but it sounds like Mata could be an interesting late inning relief piece as soon as Opening Day.
I agree on Crawford being a tier ahead of Seabold/Winckowski.
As for the outfield discussion, if Verdugo wants to *become* a corner outfielder who could play a decent right field in Fenway, per The Gray Eagle’s post, I’d be more than pleased with that.
It really seems like the team needs to do a better job of preventing guys from gaining a ton of weight just because they’re playing LF. Don’t we have, like, strength and conditioning coaches?
I voted other. For me it's a middle of the order power bat. What position that player plays is not as essential for me but I guess ideally he'd be an RH OF.
I'd like to have a legitimate presence hitting behind Devers, assuming he's not traded (obviously not a safe assumption, but I digress...).
I don't think it's particularly likely they will fill this need, but that's what I think they need most.
I'd like to have a legitimate presence hitting behind Devers, assuming he's not traded (obviously not a safe assumption, but I digress...).
I don't think it's particularly likely they will fill this need, but that's what I think they need most.
I voted for bullpen, a left handed reliever. I think Chaim is close to being finished. This looks like a bridge year to me.
Eovaldi is a known quantity and makes too much sense. That leaves Houck in the bullpen and makes that a real strength.
Eovaldi or Kluber for me, plus that 1/$6M for Hill. Totally happy with Nate on a three-year deal or something, but it'll be pretty annoying after he was reportedly bummed that we didn't offer him an extension all year. It's one of this offseason's many unprovables, but there's no way he signs for less now than what he might have in August.
Doing that should open up Pivetta and Houck for trades, maybe in that Milwaukee fantasy deal or something else we can't see. That aside, I'm still interested in something like Verdugo, Lugo and Hosmer (if that's still possible) to Miami for Trevor Rogers, Joey Wendle and Avisail García. Rogers would be the prize there, but Wendle is a solid infielder who rates plus-defensively at 2B/3B/SS and would seem to pair well with Arroyo. García is clearly the anchor in this scenario, but seems like a decent bounce-back candidate.
Doing that should open up Pivetta and Houck for trades, maybe in that Milwaukee fantasy deal or something else we can't see. That aside, I'm still interested in something like Verdugo, Lugo and Hosmer (if that's still possible) to Miami for Trevor Rogers, Joey Wendle and Avisail García. Rogers would be the prize there, but Wendle is a solid infielder who rates plus-defensively at 2B/3B/SS and would seem to pair well with Arroyo. García is clearly the anchor in this scenario, but seems like a decent bounce-back candidate.
It's obviously shortstop.
We have five starters. They could be better, but we have them. We have what looks like a pretty good bullpen. We have people at the other positions that are at least vaguely major league quality. But we can't put a shortstop on the field without opening a hole somewhere else. Priority one is figuring out an answer at shortstop or the hole we open to fill the position. Priority two is to sign Devers.
Then we play the season, hope Casas and Bello are as good as they look, hope Rafaela and Mata can get enough of a chance in the bigs to give us some confidence in 2024.
We have five starters. They could be better, but we have them. We have what looks like a pretty good bullpen. We have people at the other positions that are at least vaguely major league quality. But we can't put a shortstop on the field without opening a hole somewhere else. Priority one is figuring out an answer at shortstop or the hole we open to fill the position. Priority two is to sign Devers.
Then we play the season, hope Casas and Bello are as good as they look, hope Rafaela and Mata can get enough of a chance in the bigs to give us some confidence in 2024.
Why is this incarnation of Red Sox management so incapable of finding the deft balance between annoying and signing players who actually want to stay in Boston? That makes 3 now: X, Vaz and Big Nate all reportedly wanted to stay. Maybe that's just the player taking a parting shot on his way out, but there were enough reports in each case that it seemed genuine (unlike Mookie who seemingly was determined to test the market - and Devers who now has nothing to stay for since his buddies have all left).
Replace Chaim with someone junior to him. Ruthless, but turn about is fair play. I like it!
Who did y'all have in mind? Don't just say fire him. Name some candidates to replace him and why they would be better.
Better still , start a thread on the subject. I'll move these post to that thread.
Better still , start a thread on the subject. I'll move these post to that thread.
I would personally prefer to hold onto Houck and would be fine with sending Verdugo for Kim, if SD had interest. Don't dislike Verdugo, just don't need him with Yoshida.
I voted OF even though we technically have 3 starters already. I don't like Verdugo in RF and I think the lineup as a whole is too right handed. SS is 1B, but I really think Chaim signed Story last year to be Bogaert's replacement. Arroyo is solid at 2B but can't stay healthy.
I agree with those who say Devers is the priority right now. With him, you have the bones of a competitive team, and you can get Andrus to play SS, Eovaldi to fill out the middle of the rotation, trade Houck for an OF, and go to Fort Myers at least reasonably confident that you'll be playing meaningful games in September. Without him, you're looking at at least one and probably two or three years without any elite talent, and the priority shifts to finding upside without committing to long-term deals -- so you're trading Verdugo for prospects, signing Conforto to a pillow deal in the hopes of him being tradable in July, seeing if Houck can actually start, etc.
I voted ‘other’; but only because pretty much every area (other than the bullpen - I think that’s fine) needs help. Technically, we have a roster that’s full and at the same time there isn't any impact talent left (barring a huge trade surprise) so adding anyone is a matter of making opportunistic deals for a marginal upgrade.
Kennedy can probably proclaim that the team is a legitimate contender, as long as he leaves out the part about the team just needing to get lucky.
Kennedy can probably proclaim that the team is a legitimate contender, as long as he leaves out the part about the team just needing to get lucky.
Right now, Schreiber is the most watchable player on the Red Sox. Get rid of him and there's little reason for me to tune in.
In this scenario, I'm assuming we don't have a RF yet...Refsnyder?? Yoshida and Verdugo are best suited to LF, correct?