What is this team missing?

Seels

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Someone other than Tatum that can make their own shot.

Better defense in the paint.
 

jose melendez

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To learn to finish.

For a team with this much talent and this many guys who can go to the rim, they sucked at the end of games.
 

PedroKsBambino

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To learn to finish.

For a team with this much talent and this many guys who can go to the rim, they sucked at the end of games.
That’s my number one. It might be deciding it’s Tatum’s team, it might be clarifying the go-to sets, but it needs to be much cleaner execution late.
 

Pilgrim

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A healthy Gordon Hayward.
They've had this for maybe 1/5 of his time in Boston. Hes 30 and has had 2 serious leg injuries. He is a very good player but I dont think he will be on a hypothetical championship contending future version of this roster. Especially not making 30 million.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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The ability to throw a lob pass. How many times did Miami get free points from Bam off of lobs? Jaylen and Time Lord should be catching lobs regularly.

I think they really need to reassess their coaching staff. Their offense is having the same problems it has for years. They need someone that's going to push Brad to try different things.
 

lexrageorge

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A lot of little things that added up: health (Kemba's knee, Hayward); youth (Tatum, maybe Brown); lack of bench offense; lack of a bench big; coaching (Brad was not at his best; or at least I hope he wasn't).

Danny does need to make good use of the MLE and the upcoming draft to fix what he can. Too many draft misses in the late 1st round and 2nd rounds recent years finally caught up to them.
 

luckiestman

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I used to think we were deep but now I think we have Tatum, Brown, Smart and fungible.

I’d love to find a way to get away from Kemba and Hayward’s money, get another established guy that the opposition won’t seek out to feast on and then try to get one of these sniper guys that can’t seem to miss.
 

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They've had this for maybe 1/5 of his time in Boston. Hes 30 and has had 2 serious leg injuries. He is a very good player but I dont think he will be on a hypothetical championship contending future version of this roster. Especially not making 30 million.
Forget the salary for a minute. If he plays like he did most of this season, are there many better 4th options in the league?
 

scottyno

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A lot of little things that added up: health (Kemba's knee, Hayward); youth (Tatum, maybe Brown); lack of bench offense; lack of a bench big; coaching (Brad was not at his best; or at least I hope he wasn't).

Danny does need to make good use of the MLE and the upcoming draft to fix what he can. Too many draft misses in the late 1st round and 2nd rounds recent years finally caught up to them.
Hes missed on 4 1st rounders total since 2013, and 2 of them were because he was pretty much required to draft stashes to keep 2 max slots open
 

Beomoose

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Someone identical to Theis but isn't on the top of every ref's shit list?

A clone of 2008 KG?


More seriously, a fast-release three sniper would be desirable. As nice as Tatum, Brown, sometimes Walker and SMART can be beyond the arc... seing Toronto and Miami's bench quick 3 guys fuck us at key points really makes me want one.
 

jmcc5400

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Another year of maturity. A little more muscle and skill from the Js. Development from the Williams bros. A veteran 3 and D ring chaser for the bench. Reasonable health for Kemba and Hayward. This core will raise a banner.
 

lexrageorge

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I used to think we were deep but now I think we have Tatum, Brown, Smart and fungible.

I’d love to find a way to get away from Kemba and Hayward’s money, get another established guy that the opposition won’t seek out to feast on and then try to get one of these sniper guys that can’t seem to miss.
Hayward's injuries this year were entirely of the fluke variety: he whacked his hand on someone's skull; and had an untimely ankle sprain that would have been a nothingburger had it happened during an 82-game regular season. Neither one is at all predictive; neither one will be a factor at all next season.

Kemba worries me; but if he's hurt, there is absolutely no way the team will be able to "get away" from his money.
 

slamminsammya

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This thread is premised on the winning fallacy, namely that we only focus on what went wrong for the team that lost a series. Let's not forget that these teams were very evenly matched and a few random events changing would have swung the series to the Celtics. Jimmy Butler hitting a fallaway corner three in game one?

That being the case, I find it astounding people think the coaching is a problem for this team, with a poster saying the offense has been an issue "for years".

I don't see any glaring holes on this team, which is why they plausibly could have been in the finals this year. Semi Ojeley should never see the floor in a playoff game, but that mostly comes down to Hayward being injured. I suppose it would be nice to have a better backup big, or maybe someone who can create a little more than Wanamaker, but that is all around the edges stuff.
 

bosockboy

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This thread is premised on the winning fallacy, namely that we only focus on what went wrong for the team that lost a series. Let's not forget that these teams were very evenly matched and a few random events changing would have swung the series to the Celtics. Jimmy Butler hitting a fallaway corner three in game one?

That being the case, I find it astounding people think the coaching is a problem for this team, with a poster saying the offense has been an issue "for years".

I don't see any glaring holes on this team, which is why they plausibly could have been in the finals this year. Semi Ojeley should never see the floor in a playoff game, but that mostly comes down to Hayward being injured. I suppose it would be nice to have a better backup big, or maybe someone who can create a little more than Wanamaker, but that is all around the edges stuff.
We got our doors blown off, 35-17, to close out an elimination game. There’s more to it.
 

Silverdude2167

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I love DT but get me a better center, then they become very hard to beat.

I will go to bed thinking they were the better team in the series, so just improve that one spot and take our spot as kings of the east.
 

slamminsammya

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We got our doors blown off, 35-17, to close out an elimination game. There’s more to it.
A six game series and you are going to focus on 12 minutes? They collapsed towards the end there but a lot of that was just shot luck and inexperience. What was the series overall point differential?
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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I love Brad Stevens. I think he’s exactly the kind of coach this team needs, and I want him leading this group for a very long, long time. I trust that at this point he is aware that he needs to learn and grow and will figure this out, but if he isn’t and happens to read this:

You need to hold your team accountable to playing their part in moving the ball and creating for others. This team for the entirety of Kyrie’s tenure, when they had a more compelling reason for the “my turn, your turn” with veterans that could be starters elsewhere and sharp personalities, and now with Kemba becomes entirely too reliant on this style of offense to close late deficits like they’re 5 Steph Currys or James Hardens.

Separately, Ainge definitely has some work to do. He cannot just run this back with the potential for BKN to be a non-zero chance of complicating an improvement on their finishing position this season. Hindsight is 20/20 but this team was lucky to be in it this late in the game with how comically thin they are after the top 8. I think Brad did as much as he could while trying to stay his authentic, even-keeled self and couldn’t reasonably pick the tough road in the ECF to show an ugly side.

I won’t get into a full roster review until I have some time to process this (still really bummed) but I feel compelled to highlight Jaylen Brown. Not just his consistent play tonight and in the series, what an incredible year. I have never been outright bearish on him, but his improvement this season exceeded even my moderately high expectations and I cannot fucking wait to see how he uses this to fuel his off-season program.
 

Euclis20

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Another year of growth for Tatum/Brown. I think it is really that simple. Our best player (by a decent margin) is Tatum, and the list of teams that won an NBA title with an alpha as young as Tatum is unbelievably short. It hurts because they got close and there was a path to get there, but the fact that Miami's best player is 31 and in his 9th season mattered.

Of course there are things to look at around the edges, and it's reasonable to expect some decline from Kemba next year (and who knows with Hayward) so improvement is not a given. At this point it's all about building around Tatum and Brown, and you can't start with a much better core. They can be the Carter/McGrady combination that Toronto never got (or the McGrady/Hill duo that Orlando never really got), in an era in which the most important player is the big wing.
 

Silverdude2167

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We got our doors blown off, 35-17, to close out an elimination game. There’s more to it.
Not really, the C's should have won in 5 of you look at the series from a distance...so they had a bad 10 minutes at the worst time. Improve the front court and let's start the season again.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It's not a "sexy" opinion, but if this team literally just runs it back and they get average injury luck, they should be a better team next year and once again be a strong Finals contender purely because Tatum (and, hopefully, Brown, though he obviously has a lower overall ceiling) should be better and there is no area where they stand to get obviously worse.

In that sense this team reminds me of the 2017 Red Sox. They basically just ran back the same team in 2018 with a few key supporting additions here and there but that team was way better in large part simply because the younger players had another year to develop.

Edit: Euclis20 beat me to it.
 

ragnarok725

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Bam was a big problem for this team. Giannis would have been a big problem if they hadn't gotten steamrolled by the Heat.

I think Theis is a good player, but I think they need another big body that can be mobile and switch on the perimeter. I know that kind of player doesn't grow on trees, but they should take a couple shots in the draft, and if someone is available they should consider finding a way to make a trade involving Hayward or Kemba.
 

scottyno

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We got our doors blown off, 35-17, to close out an elimination game. There’s more to it.
Game 5 was also an elimination game right? The one where they could have quit but instead blew miami out in the 2nd half. So are there only major issues in certain elimination games?
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Hayward's injuries this year were entirely of the fluke variety: he whacked his hand on someone's skull; and had an untimely ankle sprain that would have been a nothingburger had it happened during an 82-game regular season. Neither one is at all predictive; neither one will be a factor at all next season.

Kemba worries me; but if he's hurt, there is absolutely no way the team will be able to "get away" from his money.
I agree but at some point you just have to concede the fact that the guy just can’t stay on the court. Not that it’s necessarily his fault, but let’s be honest he is far from a max player at this point even if he’s healthy. The first 5 minutes of the 2018 season continue to haunt us.
 

128

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Bam was a big problem for this team. Giannis would have been a big problem if they hadn't gotten steamrolled by the Heat.

I think Theis is a good player, but I think they need another big body that can be mobile and switch on the perimeter. I know that kind of player doesn't grow on trees, but they should take a couple shots in the draft, and if someone is available they should consider finding a way to make a trade involving Hayward or Kemba.
I remain hopeful that the answer long-term will be Robert Williams. Let's hope Time Lord can take another big step forward next season. He's in a much better place heading into Year 3 than he was heading into Year 2.
 

slamminsammya

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Separately, Ainge definitely has some work to do. He cannot just run this back with the potential for BKN to be a non-zero chance of complicating an improvement on their finishing position this season. Hindsight is 20/20 but this team was lucky to be in it this late in the game with how comically thin they are after the top 8. I think Brad did as much as he could while trying to stay his authentic, even-keeled self and couldn’t reasonably pick the tough road in the ECF to show an ugly side.
This seems to come up a lot in this forum. Can we name a team in the playoffs giving serious minutes to more than 8 guys? The Heat only had a 7 man rotation tonight, 5 minutes from Solomon Hill notwithstanding.
 

scottyno

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I agree but at some point you just have to concede the fact that the guy just can’t stay on the court. Not that it’s necessarily his fault, but let’s be honest he is far from a max player at this point even if he’s healthy. The first 5 minutes of the 2018 season continue to haunt us.
He was 1000% a max player when healthy this year
 

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This thread is premised on the winning fallacy, namely that we only focus on what went wrong for the team that lost a series. Let's not forget that these teams were very evenly matched and a few random events changing would have swung the series to the Celtics. Jimmy Butler hitting a fallaway corner three in game one?
I was just talking to a friend about this. Because of all the other shit that went on, this is something that no one mentions, and was a huge, relatively fluky, game changing shot.
 

teddykgb

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Another year of growth for Tatum/Brown. I think it is really that simple. Our best player (by a decent margin) is Tatum, and the list of teams that won an NBA title with an alpha as young as Tatum is unbelievably short. It hurts because they got close and there was a path to get there, but the fact that Miami's best player is 31 and in his 9th season mattered.
Miami’s best player is the young C who just put his team on his shoulders and won an ECF. They’re likely to get better, not worse, as they surround him with talent.

The eye test for me says that the Celtics have a ton of offensive variance. I have no idea if that is true but it felt like they were incredibly susceptible to going on long runs of awful outside shooting. That all washes over 82 games but in a series it’s really tough to blow games because you give up big runs and can’t answer. I think it is obvious we need a real marksman who can reliably make shots in the midst of those runs because they’re all quick release and form. Many of our shooters are a little too confidence driven.

A C who can hit a 3 would also help. If we want to play at the finals level, we probably also need someone who can play instead of Kemba situationally.
Realistically I’m very pessimistic because Hayward just didn’t work out and that’s just bad luck but it really closes a lot of avenues around what we were trying to do. I know we try to will him to bring the player he was before injury and he was better this year than last but hes a max player giving you far less than that and that’s hard to swallow in the NBA. I give him full credit for trying to reinvent his game and still adding value but unless he can learn to be a knockdown shooter he’s going to continue to be a weird luxury that kind of doesn’t fit
 

OurF'ingCity

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I agree but at some point you just have to concede the fact that the guy just can’t stay on the court. Not that it’s necessarily his fault, but let’s be honest he is far from a max player at this point even if he’s healthy. The first 5 minutes of the 2018 season continue to haunt us.
No, you really don't have to concede that if he's had two major injuries and they've both been utter flukes not connected to each other at all.

Which isn't to say they shouldn't look into trading Hayward if he opts in (as he almost certainly will) and they need his salary to make a major trade work. But that has nothing to do with whether he is "injury prone" or not.
 

lexrageorge

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It's not a "sexy" opinion, but if this team literally just runs it back and they get average injury luck, they should be a better team next year and once again be a strong Finals contender purely because Tatum (and, hopefully, Brown, though he obviously has a lower overall ceiling) should be better and there is no area where they stand to get obviously worse.

In that sense this team reminds me of the 2017 Red Sox. They basically just ran back the same team in 2018 with a few key supporting additions here and there but that team was way better in large part simply because the younger players had another year to develop.

Edit: Euclis20 beat me to it.
You're right that the team does have room for organic growth. Not only at the top end from Tatum and Brown, but also in the bench from the two Williams's and possibly even Langford. But I do think that there are holes to fill, and Ainge should try to be aggressive. The Bucks, Heat, Raptors and Sixers are not going away, and the Nets will be in the mix next season as well.

I agree but at some point you just have to concede the fact that the guy just can’t stay on the court. Not that it’s necessarily his fault, but let’s be honest he is far from a max player at this point even if he’s healthy. The first 5 minutes of the 2018 season continue to haunt us.
"Staying on the court" is meaningless. He was close to a max player for most of this season when he was healthy. Not much the team can do if he exercises his option; and it's a lost opportunity to use a salary slot if he walks for nothing.
 

ragnarok725

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I remain hopeful that the answer long-term will be Robert Williams. Let's hope Time Lord can take another big step forward next season. He's in a much better place heading into Year 3 than he was heading into Year 2.
Yeah, that would be huge. It seems like the bubble may have accelerated the growth of a number of young players across the league. Williams to a lesser extent - but if there's something there, it would be a big deal.
 
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A lot of little things that added up: health (Kemba's knee, Hayward); youth (Tatum, maybe Brown); lack of bench offense; lack of a bench big; coaching (Brad was not at his best; or at least I hope he wasn't).

Danny does need to make good use of the MLE and the upcoming draft to fix what he can. Too many draft misses in the late 1st round and 2nd rounds recent years finally caught up to them.
not trading forward some of the picks in the 2016 draft...team needs quality picks, not quantity...with the stash of picks, should continue pushing the stash forward and build draft assets while picking quality players
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Maturity. They got up, what 6, and then people started trying for the "kill" shot instead of just executing.

I also think they got gassed. Those 2-3 extra games at TOR really hurt IMO.

Wasn't their year. I agree with the poster above that says this core raises at least one banner. The only silver lining I can see is that I think everyone on the Cs will be working as hard as possible over the off-season, well assuming there's enough of an off-season to work.

The Bucks, Heat, Raptors and Sixers are not going away, and the Nets will be in the mix next season as well.
Well, it looks like PHI is going away but your point stands. :)
 

slamminsammya

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Maturity. They got up, what 6, and then people started trying for the "kill" shot instead of just executing.

I also think they got gassed. Those 2-3 extra games at TOR really hurt IMO.

Wasn't their year. I agree with the poster above that says this core raises at least one banner. The only silver lining I can see is that I think everyone on the Cs will be working as hard as possible over the off-season, well assuming there's enough of an off-season to work.


Well, it looks like PHI is going away but your point stands. :)
I will bet the Celtics have the best player in the Eastern Conference next season, which will be a huge advantage.
 

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I remain hopeful that the answer long-term will be Robert Williams. Let's hope Time Lord can take another big step forward next season. He's in a much better place heading into Year 3 than he was heading into Year 2.
That actually might be one of the most fascinating storylines of this core's development.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I remain hopeful that the answer long-term will be Robert Williams. Let's hope Time Lord can take another big step forward next season. He's in a much better place heading into Year 3 than he was heading into Year 2.
I'm hopeful too and I do think he will improve, but I don't see TL ever developing a good enough jump shot or perimeter quickness necessary to be a legit, consistent big man in today's NBA.

I'm actually more optimistic about the other Williams (Grant) - his main issue is height but it's worth pointing out he's the same height as Draymond Green and I could absolutely see Grant developing into a Draymond-esque player if he keeps improving.

Edit - not that the two are mutually exclusive. Players with Time Lord's skill set are quite valuable even if they aren't technically "starters" or get starter-type minutes.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I will bet the Celtics have the best player in the Eastern Conference next season, which will be a huge advantage.
I don't think it's realistic to think Tatum will be better than Giannis, Embiid, Durant, and Simmons. He may be better than one or two of them, but not all three.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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This seems to come up a lot in this forum. Can we name a team in the playoffs giving serious minutes to more than 8 guys? The Heat only had a 7 man rotation tonight, 5 minutes from Solomon Hill notwithstanding.
Having 8 guys play is a lot different than having 8 guys that are playable. Boston had the latter. Needing Hayward to play big minutes off his injury to avoid trotting Semi out there was a killer. I can only imagine how quickly this series ends if Gordon doesn’t come back in G3. If productivity didn’t completely fall off a cliff after 8 players, there could be a cascading effect, and that’s the most reasonable place to start this off season with a lot to be happy about on this team, and with an excellent outlook moving forward.
 

teddykgb

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I will bet the Celtics have the best player in the Eastern Conference next season, which will be a huge advantage.
What am I missing? Presumably you’re talking about Tatum but Durant is in the East and I don’t know that Giannis is going anywhere. You’re that bullish on Tatum improving a ton in 2-3 months? This isn’t going to be a normal offseason
Edit: and that doesn’t even include Bam who just took over a series against Tatum
 

slamminsammya

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I am pretty bearish on Timelord since his defensive instincts seem very bad, but centers occasionally take a while to pick that stuff up. Is he able to find the minutes to figure his shit out though?
 

lexrageorge

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I will bet the Celtics have the best player in the Eastern Conference next season, which will be a huge advantage.
Does that mean they are trading for Giannis?

More seriously, it will be interesting to see if an ever improving Tatum is able to make a leap over a recovering Durant. And, if so, whether that improvement stands come playoff time, by which time KD could very well be closer to 100%.
 

slamminsammya

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What am I missing? Presumably you’re talking about Tatum but Durant is in the East and I don’t know that Giannis is going anywhere. You’re that bullish on Tatum improving a ton in 2-3 months? This isn’t going to be a normal offseason
I was cheekily implying Giannis will get moved to GS and also that Tatum will have another leap.
 

mikeford

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someone useful over 6'8

an actual backup point guard

an actual power forward

a coach who could actually defeat a box and 1 zone