What's the big deal?

[Jimbodandy]

Maybe not but I think it's pretty clear he's not a good defender. Even if Kanter is average, they should still be looking for a defensive big.

It's also possible that big is already on the team if he could just stay healthy.

Agreed with this.

The eye test is not great, but he is better than expected to me...and still not good. He's not a black hole, and the effort is there. He has absorbed a lot of what Brad coaches, but they give up more easy baskets due to bad reads and poor footspeed in space.

A defensive big rim runner with hoop IQ is ideal for this particular team. But I'm on team BH as far as paying through the nose or reconstructing the whole thing mid season.

 

[benhogan]

Also, what would people actually trade for Jakob Poltl that would make SA actually want to trade him? The Bucks pick? Is a 2nd rounder really enough?

VP/2nd rounder for starters.

As far as I can see the Celtics will be the only team looking to add depth at the 5. There is a decent list of Center options that could be available from the tankers (Atlanta and GS in particular)

The Celtics also could do nothing and hope for TL health

If the C's could backchannel to see if a Looney deal would be amenable, then a Milwaukee pick instead of the 2nd is the most they should pay

From SA perspective, there could be value in having Poeltl as an RFA, it will suppress his value/interest next summer (still waiting for nighthob to chime in with the standard "every FA will be paid this summer and Poeltl is 1000% getting at least 4yrs/$50MM")

 

[Cesar Crespo]

VP/2nd rounder for starters

So basically nothing?

 

[benhogan]

So basically nothing?

would VP and Tremont Waters be nothing?

 

[TripleOT]

would VP and Tremont Waters be nothing?

Apparently, there's some buzz around the G League Showcase about Waters. I'd like to keep him and develop him as a long term backup PG in the JJ Barea mode.

 

[mauf]

Stevens seems to be selective about when he plays. He's likely not getting minutes against the worst matchups.

Theis is also a guy whom Brad has used selectively to avoid bad matchups. I’m not sure which of Theis and Kanter is covering those matchups this year — because it seems like one of them is on the floor pretty much all the time, unless the opponent goes small.

 

[benhogan]

Theis is also a guy whom Brad has used selectively to avoid bad matchups. I’m not sure which of Theis and Kanter is covering those matchups this year — because it seems like one of them is on the floor pretty much all the time, unless the opponent goes small.

yes. The Brad Machine has been effective at the 5 this season

 

[Cesar Crespo]

would VP and Tremont Waters be nothing?

Kinda? I like Waters but I'm not yet convinced he's an NBA player. He's on the fringe. If they are really high on Waters though, maybe I could see it.

Personally, I don't really like Poltl either but I figured they'd want more than a 2nd round pick. Maybe that is all it would take.

Would people then want to re-sign him? If so, why wouldn't SA want to do the same? He's only 24 and probably won't cost that much. And if he does cost a lot, why would we want to re-sign him?

He's one of those guys.

 

[benhogan]

Kinda? I like Waters but I'm not yet convinced he's an NBA player. He's on the fringe. If they are really high on Waters though, maybe I could see it.

Personally, I don't really like Poltl either but I figured they'd want more than a 2nd round pick. Maybe that is all it would take.

Would people then want to re-sign him? If so, why wouldn't SA want to do the same? He's only 24 and probably won't cost that much. And if he does cost a lot, why would we want to re-sign him?

He's one of those guys.

San Antonio has drafted Scola, Ginobili and Dragic in the 2nd round.

Their late first-round picks have also been excellent: Murray, White, Cory Joseph, George Hill

The Spurs should want to re-sign Poeltl on the cheap. Can't say I know much about the Spurs cap situation or roster plans going forward? BUT I'd expect they would have confidence in finding/developing foreign players and late picks, so they may value VP/2nd more than most.

OTOH, I imagine they wouldn't be in a rush to deal Jakob Poeltl since he was part of the Kawhi disaster of a trade. Selling him for "not much" to Danny Ainge may be a PR hit that they'd like to avoid.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If that is all it would take, sign me up. As the Celtics are currently constructed, VP and a 2nd round pick is nothing. Trading VP would actually allow them to sign Waters to a full NBA contract, assuming the Spurs wanted a 2nd round pick instead.

There's like 0.1% risk. Of course there's also a small chance Poltl develops into more.

 

[Big John]

I was speaking metaphorically about Larry Sanders' hoops game...I can't believe he was even mentioned in this thread, the guy was terrible several years ago...

He just needs to play for a team in California, Colorado or Massachusetts

 

[benhogan]

If that is all it would take, sign me up. As the Celtics are currently constructed, VP and a 2nd round pick is nothing. Trading VP would actually allow them to sign Waters to a full NBA contract, assuming the Spurs wanted a 2nd round pick instead.

There's like 0.1% risk. Of course there's also a small chance Poltl develops into more.

agreed, VP/2nd is the proverbial flotsam and jetsom from the Celtics perspective. BUT all the teams listed with "priced right 5s/POI" are going nowhere (except OKC). Some may want to move their back-up 5 for a couple of lottery tickets. SamRayNot, our resident Warriors savant, would hand over Willie Cauley-Stein for a six-pack of PBR and a bag of Dunkins.

There is an oversupply of 5s in the NBA, and the trade demand just isn't there. The Celtics will probably be the only buyers of a 5 over the next 6 weeks. IMO it's the one position where you don't spend cap. Even Myles Turner at $18MM has me thinking twice and Drummond (probably playing on the All-Star team) doesn't get me excited. So while I've been known for favoring BIGs, its centers like Baynes and Theis, that are dirt cheap, efficient and fungible that I like. Save the cap space for Wings/PG.

The Brad Machine is effectively using the 5 like a "hockey rotation", multiple players with specific strengths used for short/high energy bursts. I'm 100% behind this approach. Poeltl would be one of several(3) centers on the C's brought in to beat on/slow down the bigger teams in their way to the Finals.

 

[benhogan]

Apparently, there's some buzz around the G League Showcase about Waters. I'd like to keep him and develop him as a long term backup PG in the JJ Barea mode.

Yep keep and develop Tremont (and Edwards)

My point with Cesar Crespo is 2nd round picks have worth (see Red Claws thread: Tre commentary from G League Showcase) to teams looking to re-build. The Celtics are pretty much re-built and can be sellers of 2nd rounders. The Spurs need to rebuild that old mess of a roster through the draft, the sooner they start collecting picks the better.

 

[Big John]

The Celtics could use a sniper as much as they could use another big. Carsten Edwards has been inconsistent. If you are going to offer picks to the rebuilding Spurs, perhaps Bryn Forbes should be the target, not Poeltl.

 

[mcpickl]

VP/2nd rounder for starters.

As far as I can see the Celtics will be the only team looking to add depth at the 5. There is a decent list of Center options that could be available from the tankers (Atlanta and GS in particular)

The Celtics also could do nothing and hope for TL health

If the C's could backchannel to see if a Looney deal would be amenable, then a Milwaukee pick instead of the 2nd is the most they should pay

From SA perspective, there could be value in having Poeltl as an RFA, it will suppress his value/interest next summer (still waiting for nighthob to chime in with the standard "every FA will be paid this summer and Poeltl is 1000% getting at least 4yrs/$50MM")

I'd expect the Clippers and Dallas to be in on any centers that might be available at the deadline as well.

The Clippers would probably be in the cheap center and/or buyout market, but Dallas having Courtney Lee on his expiring deal can put them in the market for the more expensive guys.

 

[RetractableRoof]

Can you elaborate? We all know his limitations but there is real value to having a guy clean up the boards like he can. He’s not Dikembe out there but he’s still better than Kanter on that front, mostly because ever poster on this board is better at defense than Kanter. In terms of pure value, I agree I’d rather have Kanter at his salary but I’d also like to hook Drummond up to the Brad Machine and see what comes out.

Hey! You take that back... my basketball defense really sucks... lol

 

[benhogan]

I'd expect the Clippers and Dallas to be in on any centers that might be available at the deadline as well.

The Clippers would probably be in the cheap center and/or buyout market, but Dallas having Courtney Lee on his expiring deal can put them in the market for the more expensive guys.

Why those two teams?
Powell/Kleber for Dallas
Harrell/Zubac for the Clippers
All these guys have been very efficient at the 5. They all have the heft (240lbs) to battle the Laker bigs in the WC.

Have you seen any articles about the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center?

 

[benhogan]

The Celtics could use a sniper as much as they could use another big. Carsten Edwards has been inconsistent. If you are going to offer picks to the rebuilding Spurs, perhaps Bryn Forbes should be the target, not Poeltl.

feel free to start an American Sniper thread

 

[mcpickl]

Why those two teams?
Powell/Kleber for Dallas
Harrell/Zubac for the Clippers
All these guys have been very efficient at the 5. They all have the heft (240lbs) to battle the Laker bigs in the WC.

Have you seen any articles about the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center?

This is exactly why those two teams. I think they'd want a more dependable/experienced center than Powell or Zubac.

You don't think the Clippers might prefer someone like a bought out Tristan Thompson or our guy Aron Baynes starting over Zubac? I think they'll definitely be looking for a veteran 5 over starting a prospect since they're already all-in on this team.

And I think Dallas would take a proven 5 they could get on the cheap, maybe just flip Courtney Lee and one of their tiny salaries and a 2nd for Tristan Thompson instead of Cleveland buying him out. I don't think Dallas goes wild, but if they could get a rent-a-center for little else on top of taking on the salary difference from Courtney Lee I think they'd go for it.

And no I haven't read any articles on the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center, sometimes I just think for myself.

 

[benhogan]

And no I haven't read any articles on the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center, sometimes I just think for myself.

Just looking for some rumors (Woj, Lowe, Windy, etc) on who else may be looking for a 5 or what 5s are being offered around?

Trade front has been quiet, first trade yesterday since the summer.

 

[benhogan]

And I think Dallas would take a proven 5 they could get on the cheap, maybe just flip Courtney Lee and one of their tiny salaries and a 2nd for Tristan Thompson instead of Cleveland buying him out. I don't think Dallas goes wild, but if they could get a rent-a-center for little else on top of taking on the salary difference from Courtney Lee I think they'd go for it.

And no I haven't read any articles on the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center, sometimes I just think for myself.

We'll see. BUT there are tons of spare Centers to go around to all the contenders. TT after a buyout or for some spare change under the sofa cushions (late 2nd rounder pick) works

Dallas just signed Powell/Kleber to 3 & 4yr contracts this past summer. If they are in the market for another Center they should be targeting Myles Turner. Not sure what it would take but he's not flourishing playing alongside Sabonis. WC teams should be looking to airlift Turner out of there this summer

 

[HomeRunBaker]

This is exactly why those two teams. I think they'd want a more dependable/experienced center than Powell or Zubac.

You don't think the Clippers might prefer someone like a bought out Tristan Thompson or our guy Aron Baynes starting over Zubac? I think they'll definitely be looking for a veteran 5 over starting a prospect since they're already all-in on this team.

And I think Dallas would take a proven 5 they could get on the cheap, maybe just flip Courtney Lee and one of their tiny salaries and a 2nd for Tristan Thompson instead of Cleveland buying him out. I don't think Dallas goes wild, but if they could get a rent-a-center for little else on top of taking on the salary difference from Courtney Lee I think they'd go for it.

And no I haven't read any articles on the Clippers/Mavs looking for a Center, sometimes I just think for myself.

Thompson's name has come up in both local and national articles on the Mavericks acquiring a physical big over the past couple weeks. I mentioned in another thread that there is way too much demand for Thompson for Cleveland to simply buy him out without compensation.

 

[benhogan]

Not interested in Dedmon for the Celtics due to salary

https://goldengatesports.com/2019/12/27/sacramento-kings-dewayne-dedmon-trade/

 

[lovegtm]

I still don't see anyone out there, reasonably available, who defends the post better than Kanter. He's done well against Embiid in both matchups--Celtics just need to sync up those minutes and get him off the floor for the Simmons/Horford minutes.

The unanswered question will be to see whether he's playable against Milwaukee, and what the Celtics' Giannis answers are. I'd like to see Grant get time on him.

 

[bosockboy]

I still don't see anyone out there, reasonably available, who defends the post better than Kanter. He's done well against Embiid in both matchups--Celtics just need to sync up those minutes and get him off the floor for the Simmons/Horford minutes.

The unanswered question will be to see whether he's playable against Milwaukee, and what the Celtics' Giannis answers are. I'd like to see Grant get time on him.

Derrick Favors buyout interests me the most.

 

[benhogan]

I still don't see anyone out there, reasonably available, who defends the post better than Kanter. He's done well against Embiid in both matchups--Celtics just need to sync up those minutes and get him off the floor for the Simmons/Horford minutes.

The unanswered question will be to see whether he's playable against Milwaukee, and what the Celtics' Giannis answers are. I'd like to see Grant get time on him.

Just noticed this article:

Enes Kanter has looked up to the task in two games against Philadelphia, but the numbers don’t support the idea that he can hold his own against Embiid. “In 11 minutes and 53 seconds spent guarding him over the span of two games, Embiid is 7 of 18 from the field and 1 of 3 from deep. This accounts for 20 points on 18 field goal attempts, but doesn’t factor in five free throws on eight attempts. Overall, that’s 25 points on 18 field goal attempts in 12 minutes.”

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/12/31/21040537/boston-celtics-greatest-weakness-is-their-rivals-greatest-strength-philadelphia-76ers
I do recall Kanter doing a lot better job on Embiid then Theis. BUT adding a cheap, defense-first 5 for the 76ers/Mil is still the only move I see happening. Maybe it's one of TL, VP or even Tacko?

 

[lovegtm]

Just noticed this article:

Enes Kanter has looked up to the task in two games against Philadelphia, but the numbers don’t support the idea that he can hold his own against Embiid. “In 11 minutes and 53 seconds spent guarding him over the span of two games, Embiid is 7 of 18 from the field and 1 of 3 from deep. This accounts for 20 points on 18 field goal attempts, but doesn’t factor in five free throws on eight attempts. Overall, that’s 25 points on 18 field goal attempts in 12 minutes.”

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/12/31/21040537/boston-celtics-greatest-weakness-is-their-rivals-greatest-strength-philadelphia-76ers
I do recall Kanter doing a lot better job on Embiid then Theis.

So...he had 25 points on the equivalent of 22 attempts? That's totally fine on Embiid, especially if you're forcing him to work and bang in the post.

But......7 of 18 and 1 of 3 from 3 is...15 points, not 20. So it's 20 points on 22 attempts.

This author is clearly a moron and I'm not going to waste the New Year clicking his shit.

 

[benhogan]

So...he had 25 points on the equivalent of 22 attempts? That's totally fine on Embiid, especially if you're forcing him to work and bang in the post.

But......7 of 18 and 1 of 3 from 3 is...15 points, not 20. So it's 20 points on 22 attempts.

This author is clearly a moron and I'm not going to waste the New Year clicking his shit.

FTs count double for Joel. Did Tony Brothers' ref that game?

Someone suggested this a month ago:
Maybe Brad considers shifting the line up around as he did against the Wizards in the 2016-17 playoffs. Kanter starts instead of Theis and Smart starts at PG for Kemba. Then Kemba appears at the 6 min mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters and plays the rest of both halves (36mpg). Then you have Smart also attacking Embiid defensively along with Kanter wrestling Joel down low. Beat on Joel while he's fresh at the start of the game and 2nd half.

 

[lovegtm]

FTs count double for Joel. Did Tony Brothers' ref that game?

Someone suggested this a month ago:
Maybe Brad considers shifting the line up around as he did against the Wizards in the 2016-17 playoffs. Kanter starts instead of Theis and Smart starts at PG for Kemba. Then Kemba appears at the 6 min mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters and plays the rest of both halves (36mpg). Then you have Smart also attacking Embiid defensively along with Kanter wrestling Joel down low. Beat on Joel while he's fresh at the start of the game and 2nd half.

I think the Embiid lineups might be better for Kemba to attack than the Horford/Simmons/Thybulle ones.

Regardless, agree that Kanter will start against Embiid.

 

[the moops]

From my looking at the play by play for the DEC 20th game...and ignoring the fouling in the last 30 seconds of the game

While Kanter was on the floor Embiid was 1-2 from three, 6-6 from FT, and 5-10 from two for 19 points.

Embiid scored 38 total, and had 5 FT points in the last 30 seconds, so he "only" scored 14 points in his minutes against Theis?

And not to be lost, the center combo of Theis and Kanter went 17-24 from the field for 36 points with 14 reboounds

 

[TripleOT]

Just noticed this article:

Enes Kanter has looked up to the task in two games against Philadelphia, but the numbers don’t support the idea that he can hold his own against Embiid. “In 11 minutes and 53 seconds spent guarding him over the span of two games, Embiid is 7 of 18 from the field and 1 of 3 from deep. This accounts for 20 points on 18 field goal attempts, but doesn’t factor in five free throws on eight attempts. Overall, that’s 25 points on 18 field goal attempts in 12 minutes.”

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/12/31/21040537/boston-celtics-greatest-weakness-is-their-rivals-greatest-strength-philadelphia-76ers
I do recall Kanter doing a lot better job on Embiid then Theis. BUT adding a cheap, defense-first 5 for the 76ers/Mil is still the only move I see happening. Maybe it's one of TL, VP or even Tacko?

In the two games, Embiid scored 53 points on 35 shots in 59 minutes. If the writer's numbers are correct, he scored 25 points on Kanter in (12 minutes??) on 18 shots, and 28 points the rest of the time. Kanter played 49 minutes in the two games. I'd be surprised if he were matched up with Embiid only 1/4 of the time.

Kanter scored 32 points on 21 shots against the Sixers in 49 minutes. If these teams meet in a series, and Embiid "only" outscores Kanter by 10 points a game, and the Celtics are fully healthy, they win.

 

[Big John]

Embiid is a handful against almost anyone. Let him have his points (especially from outside if he starts shooting jumpers) and work on shutting Harris and Richardson down. Embiid is a team issue, not a Kanter issue, and the head-to-head stats don't really tell the story.

 

[benhogan]

In the two games, Embiid scored 53 points on 35 shots in 59 minutes. If the writer's numbers are correct, he scored 25 points on Kanter in (12 minutes??) on 18 shots, and 28 points the rest of the time.

the writers' math was incorrect

We're working with 2 games here, so incredibly small sample size. Plus it's a team game, def rotations, etc

Game 1, Brad's instinct was to start and match Kanter up with Embiid (23mins) the entire game.
Embiid's line - FG: 5-14 3PT: 1-4 FT: 4-8 5PF 15pts
That's a tremendous job by Enis.

Game 2, Brad started Theis (24mins) and had Kanter (12mins) come off the bench against on Embiid.
(according to the moops) Embiid scored 19pts on Kanter in 12mins and 19pts in 24mins on Theis.
Brad was probably experimenting with rotations and looking to take advantage of Kanter's offense against the Sixers 2nd unit.

I think Theis and Kanter have been more than fine and I'd be surprised if either was dealt.

We have two more games (1/9 & 2/1) vs Phila before the trade deadline (2/7). I'd expect Brad to continue to experiment with different approaches to Embiid before the team thinks about adding depth to the 5.

 

[lovegtm]

the writers' math was incorrect

We're working with 2 games here, so incredibly small sample size. Plus it's a team game, def rotations, etc

Game 1, Brad's instinct was to start and match Kanter up with Embiid (23mins) the entire game.
Embiid's line - FG: 5-14 3PT: 1-4 FT: 4-8 5PF 15pts
That's a tremendous job by Enis.

Game 2, Brad started Theis (24mins) and had Kanter (12mins) come off the bench against on Embiid.
(according to the moops) Embiid scored 19pts on Kanter in 12mins and 19pts in 24mins on Theis.
Brad was probably experimenting with rotations and looking to take advantage of Kanter's offense against the Sixers 2nd unit.

I think Theis and Kanter have been more than fine and I'd be surprised if either was dealt.

We have two more games (1/9 & 2/1) vs Phila before the trade deadline (2/7). I'd expect Brad to continue to experiment with different approaches to Embiid before the team thinks about adding depth to the 5.

All the evidence suggests that the team liked Kanter in the summer, and they like him now. The last Philly game was Brad seeing how long he could get away with Theis on Embiid, which was worth finding out.

 

[benhogan]

All the evidence suggests that the team liked Kanter in the summer, and they like him now. The last Philly game was Brad seeing how long he could get away with Theis on Embiid, which was worth finding out.

Kanter's starting to become the steal of the summer. On and off the court.
CBS should garner some of the credit for his clever use of Enes off the bench.

fun to go back and listen to some of the pre-season thoughts:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRjdCWWYOqI

 

[lovegtm]

Kanter's starting to become the steal of the summer. On and off the court.
CBS should garner some of the credit for his clever use Enes off the bench.

fun to go back and listen to some of the pre-season thoughts:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRjdCWWYOqI

The (obviously mistaken to anyone like those here who follow the team closely) assumption before the season was "Kemba AND Kanter? Together???? Bad defense!!!"

In reality, of course, you can manage it so that they rarely play together except against teams that don't have PnR shooting chops to burn them. This is where having Tatum and Hayward is inordinately helpful: you can play lineups with Smart or Wannamaker at PG that are big and physical as hell, while still having dangerous shot creation. In those situations, it's a lot harder to expose Kanter (Wannnamaker and Smart do great work working over and around screens to eliminate PnR 3s), and you also get awesome rebounding on both ends.

I'm really pissed that the next Philly game is a road B2B, because I wanted to see how Kanter starting looks against them, but that's a tough turnaround.

 

[benhogan]

The (obviously mistaken to anyone like those here who follow the team closely) assumption before the season was "Kemba AND Kanter? Together???? Bad defense!!!"

In reality, of course, you can manage it so that they rarely play together except against teams that don't have PnR shooting chops to burn them. This is where having Tatum and Hayward is inordinately helpful: you can play lineups with Smart or Wannamaker at PG that are big and physical as hell, while still having dangerous shot creation. In those situations, it's a lot harder to expose Kanter (Wannnamaker and Smart do great work working over and around screens to eliminate PnR 3s), and you also get awesome rebounding on both ends.

I'm really pissed that the next Philly game is a road B2B, because I wanted to see how Kanter starting looks against them, but that's a tough turnaround.

It's also interesting to go back to the "Enes Kanter" thread and look at the first few days after the signing to see the initial reactions. Review where we got it right/wrong (Not looking to do victory laps, just to learn)

Once again Brad, Danny and Enes get tons of credit here.

I'm a little less concerned about Embiid, then when the season started. Brad has/is forming a plan. The B2B sucks for winning purposes. My biggest concern is health to Theis/Kanter and depth at the 5. At a distance, it feels like Philly is developing bad regular season habits and some rotation imbalance (reminds me of a certain team)

 

[DJnVa]

Not a big, but this is weird. Anyone see it?

View: https://twitter.com/swish6ix/status/1212506904959705088?s=21

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Not a big, but this is weird. Anyone see it?

View: https://twitter.com/swish6ix/status/1212506904959705088?s=21

I like McCollum and people are going to jump right on the Hayward for him trade scenario. But I don't think I make that deal if I am Boston and Hayward is healthy. And I don't think Olshey makes that deal if Hayward isn't. McCollum is a pretty terrible defender and the upgrade in offense isn't worth the loss of Hayward's defense and playmaking, especially with CJ's contract.

On the other hand, a healthy Hayward would help Portland immensely.

 

[Smokey Joe]

McCollum’s salary and Horford’s match. That would be scary.

 

[BigSoxFan]

McCollum’s salary and Horford’s match. That would be scary.

Yeah. That’s where my mind went. If Philly can turn Horford and other assets into McCollum, they get a lot scarier.

 

[DJnVa]

McCollum is a pretty terrible defender and the upgrade in offense

Is it an upgrade?

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Is it an upgrade?

Marginal but he is a better pure shooter than Hayward.

He is a great fit for the Sixers on offense. And an effective Horford is kind of a good fit for Portland too. The question is what Portland is trying to accomplish by moving McCollum.

 

[nighthob]

McCollum’s salary and Horford’s match. That would be scary.

What would the ‘Blazers want with Horford?

 

[PedroKsBambino]

What’s the asset Philly could attach to make that realistic though? Portland wouldn’t do CJ for late career Horford. Even if you made it say Horford and Harris for McCollum and Whiteside Portland still doesn’t do that do they? Why would they? I guess if you add picks and Portland really wants to blow it up,but that isn’t what they seem to about. Plus, they are waiting to see what it looks like with Nurkic back anyway

 

[BigSoxFan]

Marginal but he is a better pure shooter than Hayward.

He is a great fit for the Sixers on offense. And an effective Horford is kind of a good fit for Portland too. The question is what Portland is trying to accomplish by moving McCollum.

And they just got smoked tonight by an awful Knicks team. This is a team that needs a reset. Lillard turns 30 this year so they’re going to keep trying to build around his final prime years when they should probably be using McCollum and others to get younger.

 

[DJnVa]

Marginal but he is a better pure shooter than Hayward.

I'm not sure I'd grant that, but even if so Hayward is better pretty much everywhere else.

Either way though, I don't think he works here.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I'm not sure I'd grant that, but even if so Hayward is better pretty much everywhere else.

Either way though, I don't think he works here.

You and I agree on that - but again, I am not in the trade-Hayward camp whereas there appear to be more than a few folks here who want to move on from him given the injuries and his opt-out.

That said, McCollum is 45.5% from the field and a 39.8% 3p shooter (though he has dipped the last few seasons) while Hayward is 44.8% from the field and a career 36.4% 3p shooter - and CJ does that on a much higher volume basis.

Also, I agree that Horford isn't an obvious fit in Portland but if you believe what people like Lowe are saying about Portland being committed to Lillard, it makes more sense.

 

[lovegtm]

Philly doesn’t have to just send Horford—they’ve shown they’ll have no qualms about sending other stuff. McCollum is a pretty great fit specifically for them.

 

[lovegtm]

Re McCollum—if the Celtics’ interest is real, it’s probably because of his 5 years of team control. I think Hayward is better because of the defensive versatility l, but I could see them thinking McCollum is a more dynamic scorer. I just don’t know how exactly you get away with a Kemba+McCollum backcourt without an elite defensive center, but the offense would be good as hell.