Where does SOSH stand on Brady/Belichick/Kraft?

Who is most at fault for the current cold war in Foxboro?

  • Belichick. He is too rigid and should have long ago worked something out to keep Brady happy

  • Brady. He is too caught up in TB12 and the snake oil salesman to remain a team-first guy

  • Kraft. He never should have meddled in the situation and/or should have brokered peace

  • No one. Everything is fine. I am a dog sitting in a bar, surrounded by fire.


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Captaincoop

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Which of the three principle players do you think is most at fault in creating the current tension in the Patriot organization?

We all understand there are shades of grey...the question is, in your own opinion, who is MOST responsible or who has seen their standing most damaged in your eyes?
 

SMU_Sox

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I don't think you can have this conversation without looking at the detriment Kaepernick and Reid are having on the game. Kneeling once again is the problem here.
 

mauf

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Isn’t this entire controversy talk-radio driven?

A 41-year old not showing up for OTAs seems like a giant nothingburger to me, and everything else is rank speculation.
 

E5 Yaz

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Isn’t this entire controversy talk-radio driven?

A 41-year old not showing up for OTAs seems like a giant nothingburger to me, and everything else is rank speculation.
Do you see anyone in here taking it seriously?
 

Saints Rest

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If I were parsing out the blame, I think it would be something like:
BB: 40% -- Mainly for being too rigid (cf. Malcolm Butler, Super Bowl LI).
TB: 35% -- If you are going to say "is the next guy willing to work as hard as me" or "No one will out-work me," then show up for OTA's. Or if not, come right out and say why not.
RK: 25% -- Because he should have gone into peace-maker mode and gotten everyone on the same page here. Or at least managed the PR side of this a lot better.
 

Marceline

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Isn’t this entire controversy talk-radio driven?

A 41-year old not showing up for OTAs seems like a giant nothingburger to me, and everything else is rank speculation.
Yeah, this.

It's a VOLUNTARY workout. That means not mandatory. I'm having trouble understanding why everyone seems to be turning this into some sort of controversy.

Honestly if Brady wanted to not show up until Labor Day I'd be totally fine with it.
 

Saints Rest

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Isn’t this entire controversy talk-radio driven?

A 41-year old not showing up for OTAs seems like a giant nothingburger to me, and everything else is rank speculation.
A 41-year old Offensive Guard not showing up for OTAs would be a giant nothing burger for me.
Hell, Gronk not showing up for OTAs is a giant nothing burger for me.
But TB12 is different.
A) He's the QB. The only thing these OTA's are really useful for are passing reps. This team will have a lot of new faces in the offensive skill positions. It's too bad that we are sacrificing those reps.
B) He's not just a captain, he is the one who everyone on this team looks to. As I said above, he has a long history of being the guy who no one outworks. Now that won't be the case.

PS: I don't listen to talk-radio at all.
 

Ale Xander

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Kraft. Assuming he vetoed trading Brady.

He's the one of the three who knows the least about football of the three, although he's obviously been part of the Patriots Family the longest (first as a STH, then as savior of Foxborough). He;s sometimes too Jerry Jonesish, Stay away from football ops please. Work on getting better infrastructure/transportation to and from Gillette Stadium instead.
 

YTF

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A 41-year old Offensive Guard not showing up for OTAs would be a giant nothing burger for me.
Hell, Gronk not showing up for OTAs is a giant nothing burger for me.
But TB12 is different.
A) He's the QB. The only thing these OTA's are really useful for are passing reps. This team will have a lot of new faces in the offensive skill positions. It's too bad that we are sacrificing those reps.
B) He's not just a captain, he is the one who everyone on this team looks to. As I said above, he has a long history of being the guy who no one outworks. Now that won't be the case.

PS: I don't listen to talk-radio at all.
Just to add a bit more to this.....I'm not a huge Felger & Mazz fan. Most afternoons if I'm home I'll tune in (TV) for a bit to see if there is anything new in the Boston sports world. Yesterday I thought Felger made an interesting point about Brady always feeling the need to get every possible snap no matter what the situation, especially when Garoppolo was there. Tom is also a guy, who if we believe what has been reported in the past, needs to know that he can "trust" certain receivers before he throws to them in key situations or with any amount of consistency. Yes it's voluntary, but Tom's absence doesn't fit what for him has been standard operating procedure.
 

mauf

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Just to add a bit more to this.....I'm not a huge Felger & Mazz fan. Most afternoons if I'm home I'll tune in (TV) for a bit to see if there is anything new in the Boston sports world. Yesterday I thought Felger made an interesting point about Brady always feeling the need to get every possible snap no matter what the situation, especially when Garoppolo was there. Tom is also a guy, who if we believe what has been reported in the past, needs to know that he can "trust" certain receivers before he throws to them in key situations or with any amount of consistency. Yes it's voluntary, but Tom's absence doesn't fit what for him has been standard operating procedure.

I’m not suggesting it isn’t newsworthy for TB12 to skip optional workouts that he has historically attended. I’m suggesting that the media-driven attempt to manufacture a controversy is ridiculous.

Brady is 41 years old — he should skip OTAs.
 

kenneycb

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Kraft. Assuming he vetoed trading Brady.

He's the one of the three who knows the least about football of the three, although he's obviously been part of the Patriots Family the longest (first as a STH, then as savior of Foxborough). He;s sometimes too Jerry Jonesish, Stay away from football ops please. Work on getting better infrastructure/transportation to and from Gillette Stadium instead.
Going under the assumption that he vetoed trading Brady for a moment, how else has he been Jerry Jonesish? Unless you're still holding Terry Glenn over him.
 

bakahump

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I dont see BB as the issue.

Simply because BB hasnt changed. He is exactly the same as he ever was. A dick, no doubt. Difficult to work for due to high expectations. But at least they are not changing expectations.

TB or Gronk or whomever has had many chances to go somewhere else. Yet they stay knowing how things will be.

Consistency.

TB has changed. As someone stated you cant be a team first, I am one of the guys, we all do this TOGETHER and then get pissy that YOUR personal trainer isnt named a pseudo team employee. Or that after 14 years the fact that he doesnt say "Helluva Job Tommy!" after every 400 yard game now bothers you. I give TB credit he has been mentally strong for a long time but it seems like he might be at wits end.

Kraft is probably most to blame. You cant give a lower level employee (even the best one you have) special treatment or ask or instruct your upper management to do so. Well you can. Auerbach used to give Russell special treatment. But in THIS environment with this Upper manager you cant. It undermines the entire "all football decisions reside in me" environment.
 
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YTF

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I’m not suggesting it isn’t newsworthy for TB12 to skip optional workouts that he has historically attended. I’m suggesting that the media-driven attempt to manufacture a controversy is ridiculous.

Brady is 41 years old — he should skip OTAs.
Most of the time I would agree with that, but given the current makeup of the offense (newcomers as well as the backup QB situation) I think he should be there even if just to get a feel for the new guys. Yes the media is driving this for sure. It's what they do in this market, BUT I'm not sure just how much of it is manufactured. There are definitely some tensions between the three parties named in the opening thread.
 

Captaincoop

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Isn’t this entire controversy talk-radio driven?

A 41-year old not showing up for OTAs seems like a giant nothingburger to me, and everything else is rank speculation.
It's not nothing. It seems pretty clear something is going on between Brady/Guerrero/Gronkowski and Belichick. It may submarine their whole organization, or it may be entirely forgotten in three months, but there is something happening right now.
 

tims4wins

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It's not nothing. It seems pretty clear something is going on between Brady/Guerrero/Gronkowski and Belichick. It may submarine their whole organization, or it may be entirely forgotten in three months, but there is something happening right now.
Not just right now, but probably for the last year or so. When guys like Tom Curran say something is different, I trust them. But too many people - both media and fans - have jumped from "different" to "bad" or "threat to dynasty" or whatever term you want to choose.
 

joe dokes

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Not just right now, but probably for the last year or so. When guys like Tom Curran say something is different, I trust them. But too many people - both media and fans - have jumped from "different" to "bad" or "threat to dynasty" or whatever term you want to choose.
Of course its different. What's "different" is that there hasn't ever been a successful owner-player-coach dynamic that has lasted this long; nor a QB that has played this well this long and this far into middle age. So even presumably well-intentioned reporters like Curran have no framework thorough which to really evaluate what's going on, other than to say "different." Which, as I think you're saying, doesn't necessarily mean "bad" or "worse." Less well-intentioned reporters, on the other hand......
 

bankshot1

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Shortly after SuperButler 52 we had a lengthy and at times heated discussion about BB and the benefit of the doubt. Without dredging up that discussion, I think that it fair to say most here felt that BB has pretty wide latitude and earned BoD credits. Whether he used the currency wisely is another matter.

I would venture that same argument and reasoning holds about TB12, and his feeling about his training and OTAs and the best way for him to prepare for the '18-'19 season.
 

InstaFace

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If they keep predicting demise and chaos and a descent into mediocrity, sooner or later they'll be right.

Dr. Nouriel Roubini kept predicting economic failure and financial crisis, year after year. In 2008 he was finally right. In 2009 he was on every TV show and sold a lot of books. Hey, it's a strategy!
 

Reverend

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We clearly need somebody new to come in and make the Patriots great again.
 

joe dokes

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Shortly after SuperButler 52 we had a lengthy and at times heated discussion about BB and the benefit of the doubt. Without dredging up that discussion, I think that it fair to say most here felt that BB has pretty wide latitude and earned BoD credits. Whether he used the currency wisely is another matter.

I would venture that same argument and reasoning holds about TB12, and his feeling about his training and OTAs and the best way for him to prepare for the '18-'19 season.

Not only is that a fair way to sum up how I see it, but unlike the Butler situation, we don't even have the data point of hindsight. Some people feel the need to get in on the ground floor of "I told you so" in advance of the (presumably) inevitable decline and retirement.
 

Saints Rest

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I was trying to answer the question “who is at fault for the current SITUATION “ (not “tension” as the OP asked). This situation being making OTAs be about TB/BB/RK not about football.
Others have opined that perhaps TB and B.B. and possibly RK are all on the same page with TB sitting out OTAs. That may be true. And if it is, then I say B.B. and RK are wholly responsible for allowing this discussion to fester, because in that case, it is purely about PR.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Bill is a hard-ass that consistently gets the job done. Brady is 41 and does not need OTA's to get in sync. Kraft is drunk and has a lot of money. Am I missing anything?
 

ifmanis5

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I don't care how the sausage is made on this sports talk radio Three-way.
20 years of dominance and 5 rings. What problem are we discussing?
 

kenneycb

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Bill is a hard-ass that consistently gets the job done. Brady is 41 and does not need OTA's to get in sync. Kraft is drunk and has a lot of money. Am I missing anything?
I really thought this post was dissecting the FMK question.

And it’s obviousky F Brady (looks), M Kraft (money), and K Belichick (process of elimination).