Who will yell at refs with passion? Cs Coaching Search

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Does anyone think that yesterday's Walker/Horford trade impacts who might be next year's Celtics coach? It seems to me that Stephens would want a new coach in place before making many more moves to shape the roster.

Also, does the NBA want teams to avoid any hirings while the playoffs are still ongoing?
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
4,372
Does anyone think that yesterday's Walker/Horford trade impacts who might be next year's Celtics coach? It seems to me that Stephens would want a new coach in place before making many more moves to shape the roster.

Also, does the NBA want teams to avoid any hirings while the playoffs are still ongoing?
I think it is more that lots of the assistant coaches being looked at are with teams still in it.

I don’t think the trade impacts the hire at all.
 

Seabass

has an efficient neck
SoSH Member
Oct 30, 2004
5,116
Brooklyn
If they go with a 1st time HC, I wouldn't mind if they added an asst coach that was a former HC (ie Stotts, Carlisle, Brooks, even Brett Brown)
Carlisle's going to have his pick from a few HC positions -- I can't see him taking an asst position.

I like the short list. Seems like three solid choices, and Kidd's nowhere to be seen.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
12,300
Santa Monica
Carlisle's going to have his pick from a few HC positions -- I can't see him taking an asst position.

I like the short list. Seems like three solid choices, and Kidd's nowhere to be seen.
I like Carlisle a lot, but want a younger, minority HC that relates well with the modern player.

Carlisle may want a break from the HC spotlight for a season or two (ie D'Antoni)

I like what I've read on Ime Udoka a lot. Not drafted, bounced around G-League/Europe, eventually made his way onto an NBA roster, then started, was a defense-first player. Helped recruit LaMarcus Aldridge to the Spurs. Has always coached on playoff teams (Spurs, 76ers, Nets). Has coached Jays before and it sounds like they are positive on him. Will prioritize defense. Looks like he has coached with Brett Brown(Spurs/76ers), so I wouldn't be shocked to see Brett* on his staff.

*I'm not a huge Brett Brown fan, after watching the Butler/JJ Redick podcast. BUT maybe BB learned after a year away from the game
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,046
Well with the Nets out if Udoka is at the top of the list we might see him announced next week, would let them get a nice jump on things....

Also helps that Bud probably was gonna get fired if they lost tonight, but won't so the Celtics remain likely the most attractive coaching opening.

Edit- I'm assuming we aren't waiting to see what McMillan does, I think win or lose he's staying in ATL now.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,448
Kiev, Ukraine
Well with the Nets out if Udoka is at the top of the list we might see him announced next week, would let them get a nice jump on things....

Also helps that Bud probably was gonna get fired if they lost tonight, but won't so the Celtics remain likely the most attractive coaching opening.

Edit- I'm assuming we aren't waiting to see what McMillan does, I think win or lose he's staying in ATL now.
Atlanta would be insane to fire McMillan, no? Seems like he was exactly what they needed.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,046
Atlanta would be insane to fire McMillan, no? Seems like he was exactly what they needed.
He's only on a rest of season contract. There was speculation (fueled by a Woj comment) that the Celtics were interested in stealing him away. I would guess he'll stay put though, that team is young and talented and may well be in the ECF.
 

Bertha

Member
SoSH Member
May 3, 2016
62
I am trying to figure out how an interview with Darvin Ham goes. Awkward question: “Tell is what you would do differently if you were head coach of the Bucks?” Both he and Charles Lee are up and coming assistants. Seems like Milwaukee beat the Nets in spite of coach Bud, with little or no help from their HC.

if being a Pop assistant gives credibility, is the opposite true? Fair or not, do assistants get judged when their head coach underperforms? You have to figure these assistants are internally gameplanning and wishing they could be calling the shots.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
I am trying to figure out how an interview with Darvin Ham goes. Awkward question: “Tell is what you would do differently if you were head coach of the Bucks?” Both he and Charles Lee are up and coming assistants. Seems like Milwaukee beat the Nets in spite of coach Bud, with little or no help from their HC.

if being a Pop assistant gives credibility, is the opposite true? Fair or not, do assistants get judged when their head coach underperforms? You have to figure these assistants are internally gameplanning and wishing they could be calling the shots.
Not necessarily. It’s unlikely even an informed fan would know how deep these inner workings go. That would be part of the interview process in the Coach having the ability to share his beliefs, philosophies and foresight into what his Celtics team would do.......and how that fits with Brads views as the new hire would be an extension of him.

I’m not even sure I blame a lot on Bud. Giannis is one tough cookie to build your offense around. He has no low post moves, he has no perimeter jumper, you can’t really run him off screens for those reasons. He’s a 1-on-4 iso guy. How do you build an offense around that other than surround him with 3-point shooters?
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
12,300
Santa Monica
I’m not even sure I blame a lot on Bud. Giannis is one tough cookie to build your offense around. He has no low post moves, he has no perimeter jumper, you can’t really run him off screens for those reasons. He’s a 1-on-4 iso guy. How do you build an offense around that other than surround him with 3-point shooters?
29 other NBA coaches would love to have Giannis in their offensive cookie jar.

At first, I wanted Billups, but I'm not sure he's been in the coaching business long enough (like a Ham, Lee, Udoka). Then again, being a past All-Star/NBA Champion probably holds more gravitas with the modern player.

What's the post mortem on Nash's first NBA coaching season (w/out ever being an asst)?
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
4,770
What's the post mortem on Nash's first NBA coaching season (w/out ever being an asst)?
The obviously devastating injuries to Harden and Kyrie derailed what should have been a deep playoff run, but playoffs basketball is about adjustments. Tightening your game seven rotation so dramatically when you are playing at home was a mistake, and scoring only one OT basket, on an early outback, was the result. Playing one legged Harden huge minutes was also a mistake.

That squad was going to be about the physical and mental health of the three stars. Easygoing Nash is probably a good choice to get along with them, especially Street Clothes Irving. Schematically, Nash was a succes, which is not a big deal when you have three supremely talented, smart players.

I now wonder how long it will be before Kyrie turns on Nash
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,448
Kiev, Ukraine
The obviously devastating injuries to Harden and Kyrie derailed what should have been a deep playoff run, but playoffs basketball is about adjustments. Tightening your game seven rotation so dramatically when you are playing at home was a mistake, and scoring only one OT basket, on an early outback, was the result. Playing one legged Harden huge minutes was also a mistake.

That squad was going to be about the physical and mental health of the three stars. Easygoing Nash is probably a good choice to get along with them, especially Street Clothes Irving. Schematically, Nash was a succes, which is not a big deal when you have three supremely talented, smart players.

I now wonder how long it will be before Kyrie turns on Nash
I thought Nash was pretty good, all things considered. Kevin Durant is amazing, but one-legged Harden and no-3 Joe Harris is an incredibly weak supporting cast. The decision to ride his stars looks fine--it won game 5 and nearly did in game 7.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
5,339
Palo Alto
I do wonder if there is a collective insanity regarding minutes in overtime in the playoffs, specifically that coaches almost always ride their starters big minutes even when they are visibly exhausted. I get keeping in the stars, and I get that their bench options weren't great but does Bruce Brown need to play 52 minutes? Or a visibly exhausted Joe Harris in there for 47 minutes? He bricked some wide open looks in overtime.

Maybe they were just misses, but the collective fatigue on that court was just calling out for some fresh legs. This is why I am not a coach.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
12,300
Santa Monica
I do wonder if there is a collective insanity regarding minutes in overtime in the playoffs, specifically that coaches almost always ride their starters big minutes even when they are visibly exhausted. I get keeping in the stars, and I get that their bench options weren't great but does Bruce Brown need to play 52 minutes? Or a visibly exhausted Joe Harris in there for 47 minutes? He bricked some wide open looks in overtime.

Maybe they were just misses, but the collective fatigue on that court was just calling out for some fresh legs. This is why I am not a coach.
it's a fair comment, and I thought the same

Harris is too good of a shooter, he doesn't miss like that unless he's absolutely gassed.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
29 other NBA coaches would love to have Giannis in their offensive cookie jar.
Yeah he is obviously a great talent but I’m not so sure of this statement. Most coaches are purists and enjoy the creativity of implementing their system. They want to have 9 different flavor cookies to pick and choose from while Giannis would require most of those cookies to be vanilla von wafers. Giannis would require most systems to be overhauled to fit his skill set.......which is as a ball-stopping iso guy (albeit a great one).
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
12,300
Santa Monica
Yeah he is obviously a great talent but I’m not so sure of this statement. Most coaches are purists and enjoy the creativity of implementing their system. They want to have 9 different flavor cookies to pick and choose from while Giannis would require most of those cookies to be vanilla von wafers. Giannis would require most systems to be overhauled to fit his skill set.......which is as a ball-stopping iso guy (albeit a great one).
I haven't looked at the adv metrics/mpg with Lopez, but I'm surprised how little Bud uses Giannis at the 5
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
I haven't looked at the adv metrics/mpg with Lopez, but I'm surprised how little Bud uses Giannis at the 5
Are you referring to offensively or defensively? Giannis doesn’t have low post moves like a LeBron so double teams would easily take the ball out of his hands. For all the talk of Simmons not developing his game we haven’t really seen Giannis develop back to the basket moves or shooting off screens/dribbles. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see Giannis stagnate from here or even take a small step back.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
16,934
Are you referring to offensively or defensively? Giannis doesn’t have low post moves like a LeBron so double teams would easily take the ball out of his hands. For all the talk of Simmons not developing his game we haven’t really seen Giannis develop back to the basket moves or shooting off screens/dribbles. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see Giannis stagnate from here or even take a small step back.
That or he finally starts hitting the 3.
 

Joe Sixpack

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2002
5,528
Canton, MA
I do wonder if there is a collective insanity regarding minutes in overtime in the playoffs, specifically that coaches almost always ride their starters big minutes even when they are visibly exhausted. I get keeping in the stars, and I get that their bench options weren't great but does Bruce Brown need to play 52 minutes? Or a visibly exhausted Joe Harris in there for 47 minutes? He bricked some wide open looks in overtime.

Maybe they were just misses, but the collective fatigue on that court was just calling out for some fresh legs. This is why I am not a coach.
OT aside - if Kevin Durant's foot was 1 inch further back at the end of regulation we'd be talking about how brilliant it was to play him all 48 minutes.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
24,057
OT aside - if Kevin Durant's foot was 1 inch further back at the end of regulation we'd be talking about how brilliant it was to play him all 48 minutes.
Yeah, Bud got killed last year for keeping his guys fresh for the 4Qs and now people criticized for playing his players too many minutes. Tough job.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
3,112
Cultural hub of the universe
.

What's the post mortem on Nash's first NBA coaching season (w/out ever being an asst)?
That was a pretty crazy season to have as your first coaching. Covid, adding Harden early in the season, having guys in and out of the lineup, and having KI on your team. I thought for sure that team was destined for a melt down. That they didn't reflects well on Nash. And Durant.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
OT aside - if Kevin Durant's foot was 1 inch further back at the end of regulation we'd be talking about how brilliant it was to play him all 48 minutes.
Without being results-oriented I felt the entire time it was brilliant to keep him out there as much as possible as Nash understood his stamina was fine. I’m not sure how much a 3-minute break helps when Jrue is up inside his jersey on that jumper but it is important to understand that Nash is managing his minutes for a 48-minute game and you don’t want anything left on the floor. Nash appeared to be correct in that evaluation. I’m not sure how that can really be debated. The minutes thing to me is always overstated especially in the playoffs with days off between games along with a focus on that particular night. Heavy minutes is something that can wear a player down over time when you have B2B, travel, etc......it rarely is a factor in a playoff game imo. I think too many people treat today’s athletes like they are all 37-yr old Kareem getting up and down the floor.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
5,339
Palo Alto
Without being results-oriented I felt the entire time it was brilliant to keep him out there as much as possible as Nash understood his stamina was fine. I’m not sure how much a 3-minute break helps when Jrue is up inside his jersey on that jumper but it is important to understand that Nash is managing his minutes for a 48-minute game and you don’t want anything left on the floor. Nash appeared to be correct in that evaluation. I’m not sure how that can really be debated. The minutes thing to me is always overstated especially in the playoffs with days off between games along with a focus on that particular night. Heavy minutes is something that can wear a player down over time when you have B2B, travel, etc......it rarely is a factor in a playoff game imo. I think too many people treat today’s athletes like they are all 37-yr old Kareem getting up and down the floor.
Did you watch the game? Nobody on the floor had any energy by the end of overtime. I totally understand keeping in Durant, I am more skeptical about the non superstar players staying in that long.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,046
My criticism of Nash in game 7 is how he didn't use Claxton on Giannis. Claxton had a lot of success defending Giannis early in the series, and Blake got obliterated
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
42,320
If Philly was smart they’d fire Doc and promote Sam to head coach on Monday.
Although Sam is probably too loyal to accept
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,046
Embiid seems like such a terrible teammate. He's going all in on "it's not my fault, Ben is to blame" in this post-game as if he didn't have 8 turnovers and let the Hawks bigs get whatever they wanted at the rim.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
4,339
Imaginationland
Embiid seems like such a terrible teammate. He's going all in on "it's not my fault, Ben is to blame" in this post-game as if he didn't have 8 turnovers and let the Hawks bigs get whatever they wanted at the rim.
He's always been a pretty poor loser, but that's not really his problem. Simmons' issues completely distract from the problem with Embiid, which is that his health makes him the most unreliable superstar in the league. Even if we ignore his first three years when he missed over 200 games, he's missed an average of 20 games a year. He's always been available at the end (more than we can say about some), but he was clearly nowhere near 100%.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
Did you watch the game? Nobody on the floor had any energy by the end of overtime. I totally understand keeping in Durant, I am more skeptical about the non superstar players staying in that long.
Neither coach is managing energy for 53 minutes they are managing for 48. They each got everything out of the tank in the 48. Whoever blinked first and played more bench minutes may not have had the chance to get to OT.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,448
Kiev, Ukraine
Neither coach is managing energy for 53 minutes they are managing for 48. They each got everything out of the tank in the 48. Whoever blinked first and played more bench minutes may not have had the chance to get to OT.
People just want to criticize the team that lost. Nash coached a great, aggressive series with some pretty tough circumstances.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
13,262
Neither coach is managing energy for 53 minutes they are managing for 48. They each got everything out of the tank in the 48. Whoever blinked first and played more bench minutes may not have had the chance to get to OT.
Saving a player's minutes for OT is like saving your best reliever for extra innings that may never arrive. Had KD has an extra 0.2 seconds to ensure that his foot was clear of the line, his minutes are a very different story line.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
5,339
Palo Alto
Neither coach is managing energy for 53 minutes they are managing for 48. They each got everything out of the tank in the 48. Whoever blinked first and played more bench minutes may not have had the chance to get to OT.
You are misunderstanding my point. I am saying once you are in OT why do you keep riding guys who are exhausted and also not stars.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
You are misunderstanding my point. I am saying once you are in OT why do you keep riding guys who are exhausted and also not stars.
How many OT substitutions did Bud make for the Bucks? Are Bucks fans complaining that he rode his best players to the finish line? My point is that if Durant’s foot was an inch shorter this wouldn’t even be a conversation.
 

tbb345

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
1,778
Embiid seems like such a terrible teammate. He's going all in on "it's not my fault, Ben is to blame" in this post-game as if he didn't have 8 turnovers and let the Hawks bigs get whatever they wanted at the rim.
Hey don’t leave Doc out here.

“This team was swept last year and this year had a chance to win the finals”. Real subtle there Doc…not to mention his “I’m not sure” response to a cab a team win it all with Simmons as the PG question.

Of course Doc wouldn’t mention that he stubbornly continued to run out a “bench mob” line up with Tobias Harris that got absolutely run over all season and In the playoffs
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
5,339
Palo Alto
How many OT substitutions did Bud make for the Bucks? Are Bucks fans complaining that he rode his best players to the finish line? My point is that if Durant’s foot was an inch shorter this wouldn’t even be a conversation.
Yes, I was not singling out Nash which is why the original post referenced a collective insanity among all coaches. I am saying all coaches possibly favor tired players too much in playoff overtimes. The Bucks were gassed too. There were 6 points in overtime.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,987
Yes, I was not singling out Nash which is why the original post referenced a collective insanity among all coaches. I am saying all coaches possibly favor tired players too much in playoff overtimes. The Bucks were gassed too. There were 6 points in overtime.
Docs getting killed in the other thread for “riding his bench” after sending Embiid and Simmons back to the scorers table after 3:20 of game time in the 2H. There is a balance for sure but you also need players to do their job.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,046
Docs getting killed in the other thread for “riding his bench” after sending Embiid and Simmons back to the scorers table after 3:20 of game time in the 2H. There is a balance for sure but you also need players to do their job.
I think in the playoffs you play your stars as much as you can. Nash shouldn't be criticized for KD's minutes. Blake's though... yeah that was bad decision making
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
5,339
Palo Alto
Docs getting killed in the other thread for “riding his bench” after sending Embiid and Simmons back to the scorers table after 3:20 of game time in the 2H. There is a balance for sure but you also need players to do their job.
I get that, but I am not sure what pointing out that other people have the opposite opinion as me adds. Theoretically, there is a continuum of exhaustion from fresh all the way to literally passing out, and somewhere along that continuum a fresh bench player becomes a better basketball player than Joe Harris or Brook Lopez or Blake Griffin or whoever. I am just wondering if coaches in general tend to miss that crossover threshold in these playoff overtimes.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,670
Quincy, MA
I get that, but I am not sure what pointing out that other people have the opposite opinion as me adds. Theoretically, there is a continuum of exhaustion from fresh all the way to literally passing out, and somewhere along that continuum a fresh bench player becomes a better basketball player than Joe Harris or Brook Lopez or Blake Griffin or whoever. I am just wondering if coaches in general tend to miss that crossover threshold in these playoff overtimes.
Something something 89/90 Bruins/Edmonton... something something 3 OTs... Peter Klima... damn it.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
45,638
Which part of that was "inside info"? I mean, we knew all that already. (I'm not hitting out at you @128 just the way the tweet is worded).


Anywho, more info we already knew, except maybe the Smart part.

Stevens went on to say he has been consulting with players throughout the coaching search and particularly mentioned Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, though he also noted this was typical for this kind of operation. Marcus Smart has also been included in the search, according to people familiar with the process.
 

tbb345

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
1,778
The longer they wait the more likely it is that they want Billups instead of Udoka.

Personally, I think they hire Udoka because of the familiarity from Team USA and the positive feedback from Tatum, Smart and Jaylen
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
14,579
The longer they wait the more likely it is that they want Billups instead of Udoka.

Personally, I think they hire Udoka because of the familiarity from Team USA and the positive feedback from Tatum, Smart and Jaylen
Udoka is who I want for this reason, but in PBS I trust.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
5,395
Unfortunately for us fans, we don't really have any insight at all into the most important qualifications for the job - and that is really how good they are as a basketball coach. Any of these guys could be basketball wunderkinds as coaches, and we'd really have no idea. So, as a fan, the only criteria that we can observe are:

1) Well established NBA player (which is an assumption that the players would respect them - which is, of course, an assumption)
2) Coaching pedigree (number of years as an assistant under coaches who are regarded as good)

In my view, Billups has the best metrics for #1, but the worst metrics for #2. When you factor in the sexual assault history, he'd be my least favorite choice (again, we have absolutely no knowledge of his coaching skill).

Sam Casell would be second best for #1, and has a good pedigree for #2. So, based on the extremely limited information I have, he'd be my first choice.

Udoka and Ham have great pedigrees, but don't have the same NBA cred as Billups and Casell. Of course, they could be much better candidates and be better at relating to the players, despite the lack of the NBA player experience. No idea.