Why do you want to trade Scary Terry?

Why do you want to trade Terry Rozier?

  • Save on luxury tax

    Votes: 14 12.7%
  • The current team isn't good enough to win now, need to use him and other assets to get another star

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Extend the window after Horford/Irving/Hayward declines

    Votes: 18 16.4%
  • He could be combined with other assets to get a better player in the draft

    Votes: 28 25.5%
  • He could be replaced with a draft pick in a 1-for-1 trade

    Votes: 9 8.2%
  • He is too good to be a backup

    Votes: 27 24.5%
  • Redundant with Marcus Smart

    Votes: 11 10.0%
  • He won't re-sign in Boston

    Votes: 40 36.4%
  • He'll never be worth more than he is right now

    Votes: 59 53.6%
  • Danny Ainge gave me Stockholm Syndrome and I can't imagine a Celtics offseason without any trades

    Votes: 16 14.5%

  • Total voters
    110

sibpin

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A lot of posts lately have advocated for trading Terry Rozier as he's put up great performance after great performance. I'm on the side of keeping him, as I think that gives the team the best chance to win in 2019, and that I'm optimistic ownership will pay to keep a championship-caliber team together. So for those of you who want to make the trade, help me understand why you think that's the right move.
 
Mar 1, 2009
520
We’d all love to keep Rozier, but at the expense of whom? We already have 2 max contracts (Al, Heighword) on the books and 3 star players (Kyrie, Jaylen, Tatum) that will need to be payed before those terms are up. Can’t keep them all. Have to choose the ones that are going to be here long term and maximize the value of the ones that we recognize as those we aren’t going to be able to keep.
 

NoXInNixon

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I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him. But I think his trade value is high and he can bring back a quality big, which is the only missing piece the Celtics have right now. A shot blocker/rebounder is a bigger need for them than a backup point guard.
 

Ale Xander

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I'd rather trade Kyrie and a pick or two to get AD.

Team has good chemistry with Terry and Smart running the show, and they're good complements for each other, and for the wings, and they'll get more for Kyrie.
 

BaseballJones

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Agree with TeddyBallgame... I don't think ANYONE here *wants* to trade Rozier. It's simply a matter of economics. I don't see how they can keep all these guys. Rozier has shown he can be a legitimately GOOD starting PG in the NBA. And the Celtics already have two studs in Kyrie and Brown at the guard positions. They can't pay Rozier starting money and have him be a backup. And Rozier would be crazy to take backup money when he can get starter money (and probably big-time starter money).

So either keep him another year in a GFIN play for 2018-19 and let him go as an RFA at the end of 2019, which would be a legit way to go, or trade him this offseason and get something good in return. Or, of course, trade Kyrie. But that seems like a nonstarter for most here. (even though I offered this suggestion a few weeks ago and Ale Xander just suggested it as well)

I mean, it's a problem, but it's not a bad problem to have - too many good players.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm pretty sure 95% of people want to vote for an option that isn't even available.

He is going to cost too much to keep.
 

MainerInExile

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Al Horford won't last forever. When he declines, the Celtics won't have the cap space to replace him with money. So, they'll need to develop a young player who can replace him if they want to extend their window. To me, every move the Celtics make should be with this goal over the next few years.
 

Saints Rest

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Simple economics, not just dollars, but value. Terry should (after these playoffs) have a lot more value to another team than he does for the Celtics (assuming full health of Kyrie). Thus this summer is the time to leverage that value while DA still has some ability to say “up your offer or we will be happy to keep him in his role as backup PG for a year.”
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Need players on their rookie contracts to balance out the max cap deals -- and C's have 4-5 candidates already on the roster for those over the next 2-4 years. If you can make Terry into a top 8 pick this year or next (adding in one of Boston's own first-rounders if need-be), I think you may need to go there.

Though on balance, I probably hang onto him. If Kyrie gets hurt next season, the C's should still be good enough to have a good shot at the Finals so long as they have Rozier. And even if Kyrie is healthy, having Rozier around to relieve him of a bunch of minutes throughout the season makes Kyrie all the more dangerous come playoff time.
 

AimingForYoko

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I don't want to trade him BUT he'll cost too much & his value will never be higher. I also don't really trust Terry's consistency so if you can find a GM who'll get stupid in a trade you might as well sell high.

And I cannot believe some of you are truly advocating trading Kyrie. That's not happening and you need to lay off the grass. Do you want to trade Gordon too?
 

JCizzle

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Simple economics, not just dollars, but value. Terry should (after these playoffs) have a lot more value to another team than he does for the Celtics (assuming full health of Kyrie). Thus this summer is the time to leverage that value while DA still has some ability to say “up your offer or we will be happy to keep him in his role as backup PG for a year.”
Yep. Maximizing value is my answer. Love Terry and I hope they can work it out, but I can't blame the guy for wanting his payday.
 

tims4wins

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I made this comparison elsewhere, but this has some similarities to the Jimmy / Brady situation, with the one significant difference that there are minutes available for a backup PG but not a backup QB. I am probably in favor of keeping Terry around for next year in a Title or Bust type of move but I would totally understand if they trade him to maximize his value and build for the long term.
 

moondog80

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The real question is, how good does an offer have to be to make trading him a better option than keeping him for next year and (presumably) letting him walk?

I don’t know where I would draw the line, but I would not trade him for say, the 15th pick in the draft.
 

TripleOT

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After Rozier (hopefully) shines in the rest of the ECF and the Finals, I'd like to see him go to Orlando with the Sacto pick for the number 6 pick this summer, where the Cs pick Mo Bamba. That's assuming they put the backup guard money into Smart, and don't want to risk taking another run at the Finals with him as a weapon, and risk losing him as a RFA for no compensation.
 

Joe Sixpack

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After Rozier (hopefully) shines in the rest of the ECF and the Finals, I'd like to see him go to Orlando with the Sacto pick for the number 6 pick this summer, where the Cs pick Mo Bamba. That's assuming they put the backup guard money into Smart, and don't want to risk taking another run at the Finals with him as a weapon, and risk losing him as a RFA for no compensation.
If they keep him and he walks, it wouldn't be for no compensation.

The compensation would be Terry's contribution to a championship next year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah not sure anyone *wants* to trade Rozier. However the reality of the cap plus the prospect of him having to play less next year makes it likely that they explore moving him this summer. But I don't recall seeing any posters saying that they wanted him traded.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah not sure anyone *wants* to trade Rozier. However the reality of the cap plus the prospect of him having to play less next year makes it likely that they explore moving him this summer. But I don't recall seeing any posters saying that they wanted him traded.
I want him gone. Sick of him eating into Nader’s minutes in these playoffs.
 

benhogan

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Options in order of preference:
#1 Deal Kyrie* for talent, then sign Marcus and Terry

OR

#2 Keep Kyrie and see if Smart signs elsewhere. If Smart goes, sign Terry. If we can get Marcus for less than $10M/yr, bring Smart back. Then see how 2018-19 season starts out. If Celtics are dominating GFIN applies and don't deal Rozier.

*I'm concerned about Kyrie's size/durability, he looks fragile and a big part of his game is to go aggressively to the basket. Plus Kyrie's defense is pedestrian.
 
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Mar 1, 2009
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The scenarios in which we trade Kyrie for another star player(AD or Kahwi) do not solve the impending cap problem. We still wouldn’t be able to give Rozier the kind of money he will get on the open market because we would still have the same amount of young stud players that will need to be paid before him.
 

Ed Hillel

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Al Horford won't last forever. When he declines, the Celtics won't have the cap space to replace him with money. So, they'll need to develop a young player who can replace him if they want to extend their window. To me, every move the Celtics make should be with this goal over the next few years.
That young player would be Jaylen Brown in terms of cap money. Tatum will then replace Hayward. They might be able to afford another max at that point, even if Kyrie signs for max, but it will depend on the cap. More realistic is probably trying to convince Horford or Hayward to leave money on the table to stay.
 

benhogan

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The scenarios in which we trade Kyrie for another star player(AD or Kahwi) do not solve the impending cap problem. We still wouldn’t be able to give Rozier the kind of money he will get on the open market because we would still have the same amount of young stud players that will need to be paid before him.
How much would signing Smart and Terry cost this offseason? doubt they would add up to more than 1 max contract of $30M+ /year (Kyrie's deal in future years)
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/17/celtics-co-owner-wyc-grousbeck-ready-to/
 
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Eddie Jurak

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I don't think there's a good (for the Celtics) scenario where Kyrie, Rozier, and Smart are all on the team after next year. One of the great advantages of this year's team is size and length at the wing, and some of that is lots if you are finding big minutes for all three of those guys.
 

The Gray Eagle

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The scenarios in which we trade Kyrie for another star player(AD or Kahwi) do not solve the impending cap problem. We still wouldn’t be able to give Rozier the kind of money he will get on the open market because we would still have the same amount of young stud players that will need to be paid before him.
That's why you trade him for as much draft capital as you can possibly extract. With Ainge making those picks and Stevens developing them, you would extend the window out even longer.
 

nighthob

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That's why you trade him for as much draft capital as you can possibly extract. With Ainge making those picks and Stevens developing them, you would extend the window out even longer.
People need to give this fantasy up. Irving isn’t going to go to a rebuilding team and Boston isn’t trading him to a contender for low firsts and roleplayers. Irving is here for the duration.
 

JCizzle

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People need to give this fantasy up. Irving isn’t going to go to a rebuilding team and Boston isn’t trading him to a contender for low firsts and roleplayers. Irving is here for the duration.
He's also 26. He's got a very long window to go.
 

nighthob

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If they keep him and he walks, it wouldn't be for no compensation.

The compensation would be Terry's contribution to a championship next year.
How much of a contribution does a fourth guard normally make? He’s a great luxury, but he wants to be an NBA starter. You can always find a replacement for the fourth guard slot (assuming that they don’t just draft one with the pick they get).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Perfectly stated. All trade advocacy MUST prove (probabalistically) that the outcome is superior to this.
While I get your point, there are practical considerations away from the value of keeping him versus the value they receive from trading him.

Prior to Kyrie's injury, Rozier was averaging ~ 24 minutes per game (that is from the start of the season through February just to keep things simple). In March and April, he averaged just over 32 minutes per game and is around 37 minutes per game in the playoffs. With Hayward and Kyrie back next season, Terry goes from starter back to the second unit and unless you want to limit Smart's minutes or give Kyrie less run, he will go back down closer to ~ 20 minutes per game. Setting aside his feelings about that after proving what he could do in an expanded role this season (because many people have stated his feelings dont matter - I dont agree but to humor them), you have to wonder how effective he will be when he is given less run overall. On the one hand, he should be very effective versus other teams second units. On the other hand, he will simply be asked to keep things going while Kyrie is resting, versus the semi-alpha role he has now. Its a different job and, while important, it isn't the featured spot he has grown accustomed to over the past two plus months.

So, in short, while the value that the Celtics receive for trading him is important, that won't likely be the only determinant of whether he is moved or not this offseason. Brad et al and the front office will have to figure out a good role for him with their two other star players/ball-handlers back and that is easier said than done. At least its not obvious to me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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How much of a contribution does a fourth guard normally make? He’s a great luxury, but he wants to be an NBA starter. You can always find a replacement for the fourth guard slot (assuming that they don’t just draft one with the pick they get).
This is what I suggested in a deal with Charlotte at 11 assuming they move Kemba which now appears likely. Collin Sexton is a baby Terry clone with his defensive intensity and ability to get to his spots with the ball. You set the clock back on the FA clock for this position as well.
 

lexrageorge

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I think there are a number of factors that will factor in Ainge's decision to trade Rozier:

1.) Kyrie's recovery. If there are any doubts that Kyrie will be 100% healthy by the start of the next season, then Rozier should stay. I'd rather have Scary Terry be the starter for 30-40 games than some street pickup or rookie PG.

2.) The Smart situation. Who knows what he'll get offered, and if it's something that the Celtics don't feel like matching, then I don't see any need to rush out and trade Rozier.

3.) The return. Don't see the value in getting a mid first. The 11 or 12 picks are marginal return, IMO, but others may disagree.

Would Rozier prefer to be traded? I don't think that's a given. If he stays another year, worst case he plays a key bench role in another deep Celtic playoff run, and gets a nice raise in free agency. If he leaves, he'll be playing for a new coach for a team that is likely rebuilding and will not have players like Horford or Tatum or Brown to help him on offense.
 

Reverend

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This long delay between games is intolerable.
 

nighthob

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This is what I suggested in a deal with Charlotte at 11 assuming they move Kemba which now appears likely. Collin Sexton is a baby Terry clone with his defensive intensity and ability to get to his spots with the ball. You set the clock back on the FA clock for this position as well.
I love Sexton and I would love him as a long term PG project, because he’d be up for his post-rookie deal as Kyrie was turning the corner on 30 and there’d be plenty of time for him as the third guard.
 

Joe Sixpack

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HRB's trade scenario with Charlotte is one of the few I've seen proposed here that makes sense for both sides.

That being said, it could absolutely work out just fine if Rozier stays and plays out the next year. Look at Houston with Harden and Paul for example.
 

Reverend

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Are we all still clear that the scenario where Rozier relishes the opportunity to come back and repeat as world champion is still in play? :)
 

lexrageorge

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Why isn't keeping him and doing a sign and trade an option?
It technically is...., but,....

A sign-and-trade only works if Rozier wants to go to a team that wants him, but doesn't have the cap space to sign him to an offer sheet. And the Celtics leverage would not necessarily be all that high; maybe Rozier would prefer to go to Team A that doesn't have cap space. But if the trade doesn't happen, he's perfectly happy to sign an offer sheet with Team B as his Plan B. It seems unlikely that he would be looking at a max contract when he becomes a free agent, so there may be several teams with cap space to simply sign him. There are other restrictions on sign-and-trades that impact teams that are well above the tax threshold, as well as Base Year Compensation complexities that may apply.

Sign-and-trades don't happen as much since the CBA was revised in 2011; players get the same salary either way, so they don't have as much incentive to agree to a sign-and-trade.
 

Joe Sixpack

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Yeah, but Irving and Brown are the starting backcourt.
And Rozier and Smart the backups.

96 minutes per game from the backcourt works out to 24 per game for each of them. Ideally you figure starters would get around 30 minutes per game, but that doesn't factor in injuries/rest. There's no reason to assume everyone will be 100% healthy next year especially after what happened this year.

This team will be incredibly deep next year. Unless Danny can fleece yet another GM it makes sense to keep Rozier and manage everyone's minutes. Those guys will all see around 25-30mpg when all is said and done.

“I’m not a selfish guy,” Rozier said. “Obviously, I don’t want to be off the bench my whole career. That’s the only thing. I’m not trying to push nobody out, I’m not trying to try to put pressure on the organization or anything like that. That’s not me.

“I like to win. I like being here. I like the organization and the fans. I love everything about the Celtics. If this is the perfect situation next year, I’m down with it. I like winning.”
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2018/05/17/terry-rozier-talks-uncertain-future-celtics-amid-breakout-postseason/
 
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jmm57

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I mean, Kyrie is an iron man right.....no possible minutes for Rozier. I’m not worried at all about that knee.

I keep Terry and hope Kyrie comes back 100% and that Terry is mostly used for bench scoring, keeping guys fresh, and being plugged in in case of injuries. If you find out Kyrie is going to be bothered by that knee long term I can’t give him a max (super max?) and Rozier is a nice fall back. I would really suck to get like the 21st pick in the draft for Terry and then have Kyrie go down when you have legitimate championship aspirations.

If I could get Bamba (or Dannys mid lotto favorite) for Terry +, then sure. But I’m not moving him just to move him because I think he absolutely has a role in next years team. If he walks away for nothing after next years playoff run, I can live with thanking him for his contribution and finding a replacement.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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No one wants to trade TRoz but we've all seen time and time again how hard it is for a capped team to keep thrir championship window open as they are drafting low and they generally can't add decent free agents. MIA went through this; CLE did the same thing; and while GSW is trying to address the issue by buying draft picks, the jury is out on them.

TRoz is a very valuable asset. It's possible that if things don't go the Cs way with MEM or SAC, TRoz will be as valuable an asset that BOS for the next few years. I know it's really difficult to trade such a likeable player but a franchise can't keep letting assets walk away for nothing and not be affected in the long run.

Most GMs would keep TRoz as insurance for next year's run. It will be interesting to see what DA will do. I think it's pretty unlikely that DA would trade TRoz for a low lottery pick before he sees what is going to happen to Smart so if DA does trade TRoz, it will be for a pick a couple of years in the future.

One other possibility is that Smart signs elsewhere and TRoz takes the extension Marcus turned down just to get some financial security.

DA has been on a roll. I'm sure he'll get this right too. :)
 

benhogan

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And Rozier and Smart the backups.

96 minutes per game from the backcourt works out to 24 per game for each of them. Ideally you figure starters would get around 30 minutes per game, but that doesn't factor in injuries/rest. There's no reason to assume everyone will be 100% healthy next year especially after what happened this year.

This team will be incredibly deep next year. Unless Danny can fleece yet another GM it makes sense to keep Rozier and manage everyone's minutes. Those guys will all see around 25-30mpg when all is said and done.



https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2018/05/17/terry-rozier-talks-uncertain-future-celtics-amid-breakout-postseason/
100% this, and Terry is singing our tune.

Brad has done a great job of deflecting who starts into who finishes the game and minutes played as a measure of team importance. After a season like this, with all the devastating injuries, we should move past limiting the number of good/experienced players on the roster. Rozier is cheap, durable, and a + defensive/offensive player. Try to keep them all.

BUT if we need to maximize assets on the roster and avoid costing Wyc luxury tax $$$, deal Kyrie:
1. KI is expensive & will demand a max contract after next season
2. KI is injury prone & has knee issues that will affect the rest of his career
3. KI hype/notoriety probably gets you more/better assets in a trade then Rozier
4. KI is a negative on defense & will probably worsen over the next 5 seasons
5. Cost of Terry + Smart < then Kyrie's next contract, creates roster/player flexibility down the road.
6. KI is an offensive star, top 10 in isolation w/ the ball. BUT that does take the ball out of the hands of our blossoming future stars (Tatum, Brown, Rozier)

Celtics were not on KI's top destinations 9 months ago. If Danny & Co moved him to one of his desired spots the blowback should be lessened. Fake trade: Call the Knicks offer KI for #9 and multiple future Knick 1st rounders (or options to switch firsts). They could add Kanter's expiring contract to make it work cap wise. I'm biased here, just think the Knicks will perpetually stink and Dolan will do rash moves to fill MSG.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Besides the Knicks, Wolves, Spurs, Heat if the Laker's whiff on Lebron, they could also be an option. Throw in the Clippers also, Los Angeles would feed into Uncle Drew's promotion machine.

Agree with Rev, these 3 days off is intolerable. When did watching 3-hour baseball game's become a chore? I need me some Celtics hoops before I come up with more of these silly fake trade ideas.
 

TheoShmeo

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My inclination is to trade Kyrie. Don't get me wrong, I love Kyrie.

But I think the team is likely better with Kyrie gone and plus his return than they are with Rozier gone and plus his return. I'd like to see Kahwai on this team, with a big question mark on health.

Part of my thinking is that I worry that Kyrie's injuries may turn out to be chronic. 25 year olds with issues with their knees worry me. But that may be spectacularly uninformed. Any SoSH docs reading this with a view, albeit without the benefit of in person review, on this topic?

The good news, either way, is that Danny Ainge is really good at GMing so the odds of a big misstep here are quite low.
 

BigSoxFan

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My inclination is to trade Kyrie. Don't get me wrong, I love Kyrie.

But I think the team is likely better with Kyrie gone and plus his return than they are with Rozier gone and plus his return. I'd like to see Kahwai on this team, with a big question mark on health.

Part of my thinking is that I worry that Kyrie's injuries may turn out to be chronic. 25 year olds with issues with their knees worry me. But that may be spectacularly uninformed. Any SoSH docs reading this with a view, albeit without the benefit of in person review, on this topic?

The good news, either way, is that Danny Ainge is really good at GMing so the odds of a big misstep here are quite low.
If we’re worried about Kyrie’s health, then trading for Kawhi doesn’t seem to be a smart deal since he offers even more health risk than Kyrie. A healthy Kawhi would be insane with Stevens but I don’t think such a player exists anymore. He’s missed a lot of games in his career.

I think the Kyrie trade stuff will really die down if the Celtics make the Finals and we watch as GS suffocates our offense. We have a team that is close to being able to beat the Warriors. I don’t see how trading Kyrie gets us closer to that goal.
 

Saints Rest

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Talk about recency bias. All of you who want to trade Kyrie need to go back and watch the first 50 games of the season. Hell, just watch any series of Kyrie & Big Al two man game highlights from the first 10 games. Kyrie is exactly the sort of star this team needs. Does everyone forget how he raises his game, on both ends, in the playoffs?
Let’s stop with all the dime and two nickels for Kyrie’s quarter talk. Sheesh!