Why do you want to trade Scary Terry?

[moondog80]

Orlando could use a PG but Rozier/Sac 2019 isn’t getting them to budge when they’d probably just be able to draft Trae Young..

I don't know about this. I would not do this deal if I were Boston. The Sacto pick probably isn't going to be much worse than 6th next year, plus a year of Rozier (and the leg up on signing him long term)? To me, that looks like Orlando gets to have its cake and eat it too.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Everything has been poor....on the worst team in the league. And he's been passive. If he was a min-salary guy he'd have some filler/flier value but no sane GM is going to both trade an asset and take on $10m over the next two years for a guy who hasn't shown he can play in the league and if he someday can his ceiling is still limited due to reasons I listed above. That's crazy talk imo.

PHO picked up Bender's option so he's got to be worth something.

And I suspect that if PHO were willing to trade Bender for a 2nd round pick, there would be a dozen GMs who would take that $10M chance. If the Nets (for one) would take a flier on Okafor, they'd certainly take a flier on Bender.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'm lost as to why anyone sees Bender as an asset. Sure, a lottery ticket maybe. He is still very young. But 125 games in and he's shooting 38% from the field. Not from 3, from the field period. He doesn't pass, rebound, or steal/block. And 16 is shit, even in this draft.

I wouldn't do Bender/16 for Rozier/27. I'd rather hedge the Kyrie injury and other things and throw Terry 20 minutes somehow next year than do that. Nevermind throwing in the Memphis pick on top of it.

I don't want Bender but it's very misleading to point out he shot 38% from the field when he shot .366 from 3 and had a better aFG% than Terry Rozier. "Not from 3, from the field period.." 67% of his shots on the field were from 3. Stuff like this actually matters, and a lot.

 

[benhogan]

PHO picked up Bender's option so he's got to be worth something.

And I suspect that if PHO were willing to trade Bender for a 2nd round pick, there would be a dozen GMs who would take that $10M chance. If the Nets (for one) would take a flier on Okafor, they'd certainly take a flier on Bender.

PHO and Nets can dream on Bender's potential and his RFA option in 2yrs time. Bender's present value + option value may be worth it for tankers/bottom feeders. The Celtics are in a different place.

In 2yrs time the Celtics will potentially be on the hook for :
1. a max Kyrie Irving
2. a max Gordon Hayward
3. One of Smart or Rozier
4. Re-signing Jaylen Brown
5. looking to re-sign Tatum the following season.

The Celtics probably apply zero to Bender's present value + not much value to his optionality due to their other potential commitments.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

and even if Bender reaches his upside, how good is it? A decent stretch big?

At least when Isaac played, he was a deflection god. Bender doesn't really do anything at a noteworthy level.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don't know about this. I would not do this deal if I were Boston. The Sacto pick probably isn't going to be much worse than 6th next year, plus a year of Rozier (and the leg up on signing him long term)? To me, that looks like Orlando gets to have its cake and eat it too.

Next year’s draft is obviously a year away and isn’t thought of as highly as the 2018 draft. Plenty of time for that to change but I would be shocked if Orlando gave up an opportunity for a Bamba, Porter, Young, etc. for Rozier and a deferred lottery pick that could end up being worse than the one they already have in hand and which has a chance to end up in the 20s.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

PHO and Nets can dream on Bender's potential and his RFA option in 2yrs time. Bender's present value + option value may be worth it for tankers/bottom feeders. The Celtics are in a different place.

In 2yrs time the Celtics will potentially be on the hook for :
1. a max Kyrie Irving
2. a max Gordon Hayward
3. One of Smart or Rozier
4. Re-signing Jaylen Brown
5. looking to re-sign Tatum the following season.

The Celtics probably apply zero to Bender's present value + not much value to his optionality due to their other potential commitments.

I said upthread that I didn't think that either BOS or PHO would make that trade so it's kind of moot but here's the thing.

I was just responding to the idea that Bender had zero value after spending the first two years on a terrible team who went long stretches of games I saw without touching the ball thanks to PHO's guards pounding the ball into the floor. Bender played 2000+ minutes and had a usage percentage of 12.7%. To put that in context, my quick BRef search found only two other players who played more than 2000 minutes and had a usage % of less than 13%: PJ Tucker and Tony Snell.

In fact, there were 62 players in the NBA that played over 1750 minutes, shot over 3.5 3P/game at a rate of greater than .360%. Other than the two previously mentioned players, Bender had the lowest usage %.

If I were a GM, I'd love to get my hands on him if PHO were selling low.

 

[benhogan]

I said upthread that I didn't think that either BOS or PHO would make that trade so it's kind of moot but here's the thing.

I was just responding to the idea that Bender had zero value after spending the first two years on a terrible team who went long stretches of games I saw without touching the ball thanks to PHO's guards pounding the ball into the floor. Bender played 2000+ minutes and had a usage percentage of 12.7%. To put that in context, my quick BRef search found only two other players who played more than 2000 minutes and had a usage % of less than 13%: PJ Tucker and Tony Snell.

In fact, there were 62 players in the NBA that played over 1750 minutes, shot over 3.5 3P/game at a rate of greater than .360%. Other than the two previously mentioned players, Bender had the lowest usage %.

If I were a GM, I'd love to get my hands on him if PHO were selling low.

fair enough
His value does depend on which team you are a GM for. Nets/Suns yes. Celtics- no thanks for his suggested cost in talent/salary.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Terry will play a key role on a title contending Celtics team next season. He can get 25-30 minutes with or without Smart/Kyrie on the roster. Players coming back from injury will take time to heal, new injuries will happen, and players will need rest during the course of the season to perform efficiently.

Only if you push Brown out of the backcourt, which I'm not convinced is a net positive.

 

[moondog80]

Next year’s draft is obviously a year away and isn’t thought of as highly as the 2018 draft. Plenty of time for that to change but I would be shocked if Orlando gave up an opportunity for a Bamba, Porter, Young, etc. for Rozier and a deferred lottery pick that could end up being worse than the one they already have in hand and which has a chance to end up in the 20s.

The 6th pick is simply not that good -- the only two players picked there in the past 20 years who reached perennial all-star level are Damian Lillard and Brandon Roy. It is very unlikely they would get a player better than Terry Rozier. I'd be mad if the Celtics did this, and thrilled if I were a fan of a rebuilding team that did.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Agree, we need to be realistic about roster construction.

My general premise was 1yr of Rozier + 2yrs of Baynes is worth a lot more in production than 2yrs of Bender. Heck, 2yrs of Baynes at $10.5M is probably worth more than 2yrs of Bender alone. We are up against the cap so every dollar counts and I'm not throwing away $10.5M on project Bender.

Look what Danny did with Theis ($2.2M for 2yrs) and Larkin ($1.5M), they were serviceable players. I'm just not dreaming on Bender (and his salary) when we are so close to a championship team in 2019.

Yes, the Bender talk makes no sense to me for both financial and productivity purposes. Total non-starter. I know I've beaten this horse to death but you can go back to the KG teams to see Ainge not straying from min-salary guys to fill out his second unit. House, Posey ($2m), PJ Brown, Cassell, Marbury, Nate Robinson, etc. He wouldn't pony up for role players who got paid in Posey, Okynk, and Bradley.

The fact that he wouldn't pay Tony Allen $3m per year doesn't make me feel confident that Smart returns even at full MLE numbers......there is a clear cut history of how Ainge utilizes his cap/tax dollars once his team is ready to contend He pays the stars and views role players as turnstile fodder......and that it is the coaches job to put it together.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The 6th pick is simply not that good -- the only two players picked there in the past 20 years who reached perennial all-star level are Damian Lillard and Brandon Roy. It is very unlikely they would get a player better than Terry Rozier. I'd be mad if the Celtics did this, and thrilled if I were a fan of a rebuilding team that did.

Why does perennial all-star level matter? Rozier hasn’t and will never reach that level and the pick doesn’t need to reach that level to be deemed a success for the Celtics.

Additionally, Rozier has 1 more year before he gets a lot more expensive and plays a position that is not in high demand. The 2018 #6 pick will have 4 years of cheap contracts before he starts to get more expensive. It’s a far more valuable trade asset than Rozier.

The Celtics simply cannot keep Rozier after next season. If you’re fine with keeping him and making another run next year, I have zero issue with this. There’s a lot of merit to that argument. But if they want to find a young big man to groom behind Horford, this is the year to do it. But it’s going to be costly to do so. Rozier alone doesn’t get you anywhere near the #6 pick.

 

[AimingForYoko]

Next year’s draft is obviously a year away and isn’t thought of as highly as the 2018 draft. Plenty of time for that to change but I would be shocked if Orlando gave up an opportunity for a Bamba, Porter, Young, etc. for Rozier and a deferred lottery pick that could end up being worse than the one they already have in hand and which has a chance to end up in the 20s.

You know if I had a pick a team that would be that damn stupid, Orlando would up there. I'm sure DA is feeling out their stupidity right now. I suppose you could sell them on having multiple high picks in a few years so that they could rebuild that way instead of 1 high pick this year. I dunno.

 

[Devizier]

67% of his shots on the field were from 3. Stuff like this actually matters, and a lot.

On the flipside, couldn't that also be indicative of limited talent? A great shooter should be putting in baskets from all over the court, right?

 

[moondog80]

Rozier alone doesn’t get you anywhere near the #6 pick.

We are not talking about Rozier alone. We are talking about Rozier plus a draft pick that will most likely give you about the same chance of getting you a star level player, only you get it next year instead of this one. (Yes, the pick might be worse next year. It also might be better.). Rozier is well worth the price if a one year deferment. Unless they are absolutely in love with a player they are sure will drop to 6 (and Bamba, a popular target here, probably will not), the Celtics would be foolish to do this, given what Rozier could mean for them next year.

 

[mauf]

I’d only trade Terry for someone who makes next year’s team better.

There’s probably 25-30 minutes a night for a big who is better than Baynes or Theis, which is more than Rozier will get if Kyrie is healthy, but I can’t think of a deal along those lines that would make sense for both sides.

So unless Rozier moves as part of a blockbuster deal that nets us a star, I think he’ll play out his contract here, and I’m fine with that.

 

[BigSoxFan]

We are not talking about Rozier alone. We are talking about Rozier plus a draft pick that will most likely give you about the same chance of getting you a star level player, only you get it next year instead of this one. (Yes, the pick might be worse next year. It also might be better.). Rozier is well worth the price if a one year deferment. Unless they are absolutely in love with a player they are sure will drop to 6 (and Bamba, a popular target here, probably will not), the Celtics would be foolish to do this, given what Rozier could mean for them next year.

The Celtics need to find a long-term replacement for Horford. Next year’s draft does not look promising in that regard and the 2018 draft figures to have a few intriguing options in Jackson, Bamba, and Carter. One of those guys will be there at #6. If Kyrie comes back healthy and Smart returns, the Celtics will be fine at PG.

I understand the argument for staying put with Rozier given Kyrie’s health but I don’t think trading him and Sac 2019 is foolish at all if it gets you a young big man with upside. It all depends on how Ainge views the bigs in this draft. Regardless, I don’t think Orlando does that deal anyways.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

On the flipside, couldn't that also be indicative of limited talent? A great shooter should be putting in baskets from all over the court, right?

That's the thing. He's pretty awful at other skills.....slow instincts in reacting to the ball makes him an awful rebounder, he's appeared clueless while making many boneheaded plays, his handle is terrible so he's useless off the dribble, and he is not aggressive. In short, Bender was a large part of the reason why Phoenix was so terrible. His only NBA skill that I see with potential is his 3-point shooting.

My upside for him remains as a 3-and-D guy but his all around game has a long ways to go before he sees minutes on a non-tanking NBA team.

 

[Montana Fan]

KAT is interesting to hear people talk about when you think about who one of his mentors is.

As for what I'd try to get for TR. Brooklyn 2019 #1, Brooklyn 2021 #1, Brooklyn 2023 #1 and Brooklyn 2025 #1 should suffice.

 

[lovegtm]

The Celtics need to find a long-term replacement for Horford. Next year’s draft does not look promising in that regard and the 2018 draft figures to have a few intriguing options in Jackson, Bamba, and Carter. One of those guys will be there at #6. If Kyrie comes back healthy and Smart returns, the Celtics will be fine at PG.

I understand the argument for staying put with Rozier given Kyrie’s health but I don’t think trading him and Sac 2019 is foolish at all if it gets you a young big man with upside. It all depends on how Ainge views the bigs in this draft. Regardless, I don’t think Orlando does that deal anyways.

I agree that they need a Horford replacement eventually, but that replacement doesn't have to be a traditional big, and it might be better if it's not. You're looking more for a Swiss army knife type who his switchable and can make a few plays in space. Draymond is the prototype here, and even though his combination of BBIQ and strength is rare, it's still a lot easier to find than 7 footers with shooting range and the footspeed to not get played off the floor. Not to mention a hell of a lot cheaper, at least in terms of draft capital.

If you go against someone like Embiid, there's a pretty clear blueprint to make his life completely miserable on defense, by spacing the floor and playing with a lot of pace. You probably won't play him off the floor, but you can exhaust him to the point where it's easier to neutralize his postups. You can also carry a non-elite banging big like Baynes on the roster to wear him out for 20ish minutes a night when he posts up. Those guys are way less expensive in salary and draft capital than elite big man prospects.

Obviously if the Celtics had binked the Lakers' pick this year they'd look to find Horford's replacement, and could go for a more premium big man. However, I think it would be a massive mistake to overpay and do a panic trade to try and get that guy this year--if we think it's a good big-man class, that means that most teams think that, and will price trades accordingly. A lot of opportunities can arise over the next 2 years prior to the end of Horford's contract; no need to panic.

With modern spacing and shooting you can absolutely be the favorites to win a championship with no player over 6'9'' in your top 6 or 7 players.

 

[lovegtm]

KAT is interesting to hear people talk about when you think about who one of his mentors is.

The big issue in players on rookie deals demanding trades is that no one has yet turned down a big extension. However, if a player really wanted out, there is a strategic path to do it.

All you do, during the summer negotiations over the huge extension, is tell your team that you intend to sign the qualifying offer the following summer. At that point the team doesn't really know whether you're bluffing or not. They then are under immense pressure to trade you all summer (similar to Kyrie, but even worse, because you'd have only one year left). You have very little injury risk, and can take steps to minimize even that.

If you get to training camp and there's still no deal, you can either say it was all a bluff and sign the extension, which will very very likely still be on the table. Or you can yolo it up to RFA. I'd be interested to see someone like KAT or Porzingis try something on these lines, since the Knicks are the Knicks, and the Wolves are completely screwed if Butler leaves, given Wiggins' contract.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

On the flipside, couldn't that also be indicative of limited talent? A great shooter should be putting in baskets from all over the court, right?

Definitely possible. I did notice he improved as a passer by quite a bit last year too, so on the plus side he is showing improvement. That's what you look for in young players. If he keeps making steps forward, by the time he is Terry's age, he might be pretty good. Still wouldn't trade Rozier for him.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I agree that they need a Horford replacement eventually, but that replacement doesn't have to be a traditional big, and it might be better if it's not. You're looking more for a Swiss army knife type who his switchable and can make a few plays in space. Draymond is the prototype here, and even though his combination of BBIQ and strength is rare, it's still a lot easier to find than 7 footers with shooting range and the footspeed to not get played off the floor. Not to mention a hell of a lot cheaper, at least in terms of draft capital.

If you go against someone like Embiid, there's a pretty clear blueprint to make his life completely miserable on defense, by spacing the floor and playing with a lot of pace. You probably won't play him off the floor, but you can exhaust him to the point where it's easier to neutralize his postups. You can also carry a non-elite banging big like Baynes on the roster to wear him out for 20ish minutes a night when he posts up. Those guys are way less expensive in salary and draft capital than elite big man prospects.

Obviously if the Celtics had binked the Lakers' pick this year they'd look to find Horford's replacement, and could go for a more premium big man. However, I think it would be a massive mistake to overpay and do a panic trade to try and get that guy this year--if we think it's a good big-man class, that means that most teams think that, and will price trades accordingly. A lot of opportunities can arise over the next 2 years prior to the end of Horford's contract; no need to panic.

With modern spacing and shooting you can absolutely be the favorites to win a championship with no player over 6'9'' in your top 6 or 7 players.

Agree with this but I just don’t see Rozier/Sac 2019 as a panic trade for a 2018 top 6 pick. It’s pretty fair value since Rozier is the cost of getting the pick one year earlier in a reportedly better draft.

Certainly reasonable to think that’s too much for the Celtics to pay but any team in the top 6 or 7 will be asking for that much or more. My guess is that Ainge pokes around at the draft but ultimately holds on to Rozier, Sac, and Mem.

 

[chilidawg]

Certainly reasonable to think that’s too much for the Celtics to pay but any team in the top 6 or 7 will be asking for that much or more. My guess is that Ainge pokes around at the draft but ultimately holds on to Rozier, Sac, and Mem.

Agreed. He's dealing from a position of strength, so the only way a deal happens is if it is great value for the Celtics.

 

[nighthob]

I don’t think Rozier plus Sac 2019 gets us anywhere near a top 5-6 pick. Phoenix ain’t giving up #1 for that. Sac isn’t giving up #2. Atlanta doesn’t need a PG. Memphis has Conley. Dallas has Dennis Smith. Orlando could use a PG but Rozier/Sac 2019 isn’t getting them to budge when they’d probably just be able to draft Trae Young.

Because the odds of Trae Young performing the way Rozier is now are pretty remote. (I think that Young is going to be a heck of an offensive player, but his length is going to make him a defensive nightmare, for the team that drafts him, that is.)

Beyond that is the reality that they would be getting their Trae Young equivalent and a lottery pick for the opportunity to draft Young.

However I think that Isaac is a more realistic target because Orlando already has a bunch of bigs and this is a big man draft and the odds are that the best player on the board at six is going to be someone like Ayton, Porter, Jackson, Bamba, or Carter (the reason for Ayton on that list is that I don’t think that either Doncic or Bagley get out of the top three but I can see a scenario where Ayton does).

As they already have Goodwin and Isaac, drafting another big seems counterproductive, as would selecting the inferior Young just to have a PG.

If it’s Jackson that slides Jackson and Isaac are redundant. And Jackson is definitely the better version of that player. So getting their PG of the future and the prospect of two lottery picks in 2019 makes a lot of sense for the new mismanagement.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Because the odds of Trae Young performing the way Rozier is now are pretty remote. (I think that Young is going to be a heck of an offensive player, but his length is going to make him a defensive nightmare, for the team that drafts him, that is.)

Beyond that is the reality that they would be getting their Trae Young equivalent and a lottery pick for the opportunity to draft Young.

However I think that Isaac is a more realistic target because Orlando already has a bunch of bigs and this is a big man draft and the odds are that the best player on the board at six is going to be someone like Ayton, Porter, Jackson, Bamba, or Carter (the reason for Ayton on that list is that I don’t think that either Doncic or Bagley get out of the top three but I can see a scenario where Ayton does).

As they already have Goodwin and Isaac, drafting another big seems counterproductive, as would selecting the inferior Young just to have a PG.

If it’s Jackson that slides Jackson and Isaac are redundant. And Jackson is definitely the better version of that player. So getting their PG of the future and the prospect of two lottery picks in 2019 makes a lot of sense for the new mismanagement.

I like the Isaac option (if it is one) far better than Bender. Are you suggesting Rozier/Sac 2019 for Isaac?

 

[benhogan]

Only if you push Brown out of the backcourt, which I'm not convinced is a net positive.

My short answer is injuries happen, we will rarely have every player available.

Neither Brown nor Tatum minutes need to be affected with a healthy roster.

We had a full complement of healthy PGs in Oct/Nov/Dec2017:
Rozier avg ~ 23.5mins/gm in Oct/Nov/Dec
Kyrie avg ~ 33mins/gm in Oct/Nov/Dec
Smart avg ~31mins/gm in Oct/Nov/Dec
Larkin avg ~11mins/gm in Oct/Nov/Dec

So long Shane, maybe cut Kyrie/Smart down to 30mins/gm. Rozier gets an easy 25-30mins/gm. With room to hand some of those to Gordon Hayward.

We can do the same exercise with Hayward. He will find some minutes out of an older Horford, Ojeleye (14mins/gm), Nader, older Baynes, Theis.

It is not a question IF injuries will happen, but a question of WHEN they will happen. Also, rested players = more efficient players in playoffs. The Celtics have to manage the roster for an extra 8 weeks of playoff basketball every year.

 

[nighthob]

I like the Isaac option (if it is one) far better than Bender. Are you suggesting Rozier/Sac 2019 for Isaac?

Sorry, I was referring to the alternate I laid out in the earlier post, Rozier/Sac 2019 for Isaac/future Orlando #1.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Sorry, I was referring to the alternate I laid out in the earlier post, Rozier/Sac 2019 for Isaac/future Orlando #1.

Gotcha. That is a deal I would make if future Orlando pick is added with limited protections.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I don't want Bender but it's very misleading to point out he shot 38% from the field when he shot .366 from 3 and had a better aFG% than Terry Rozier. "Not from 3, from the field period.." 67% of his shots on the field were from 3. Stuff like this actually matters, and a lot.

My point was that he can't score. He doesn't rebound or defend either. If the best thing that you can say about him is that he's still young and shoots about NBA average from 3 and really nothing else, I'm not giving up a year of a guy who clearly works here. He's a project with a capital P.

edit: And of course, adding the Memphis pick as well. Sweet mother of God.

 

[JakeRae]

Gotcha. That is a deal I would make if future Orlando pick is added with limited protections.

Why not just try Rozier for Isaac straight up (i.e., plus Nader for salary reasons)?

In terms of Bender, I don't think he's a fit unless the Celtics thought they could get him to he a productive rotation player by next year. The whole reason to explore trading Rozier is because he only has one year of control left. Getting 2 years of a bigger project back isn't moving the needle much. A second year player like Isaac makes sense because they still have 3 years left so one development year could lead to two productive years for cheap (or one such year and then another trade).

Bundling Rozier and picks for a lottery pick in this draft also makes sense because the top 8 in this draft are very good prospects. For example, the Rozier plus Sac pick for #6 idea is founded in the idea that the Sac pick likely has an upside of similar value to #6 this year but has some real risk surrounding it. Rozier is the cost of solidifying our best case outcome. (I think #6 this year is probably roughly equivalent to #3 next year based on what we know now.)

Also, for those talking about risk regarding whose available, this isn't trading for #1. No trade is getting finalized until draft night, when the relevant GMs know who is available and who has slipped. The speculation now is more trying to guess what might work to anticipate what could happen on draft night.

 

[nighthob]

Why not just try Rozier for Isaac straight up (i.e., plus Nader for salary reasons)?

It was my proposal and I was strictly thinking in terms moving the pick down the road. There’d be no guarantee that it was a lottery pick, but betting on bad Magic management is usually a winning bet.

 

[mcpickl]

Yes, the Bender talk makes no sense to me for both financial and productivity purposes. Total non-starter. I know I've beaten this horse to death but you can go back to the KG teams to see Ainge not straying from min-salary guys to fill out his second unit. House, Posey ($2m), PJ Brown, Cassell, Marbury, Nate Robinson, etc. He wouldn't pony up for role players who got paid in Posey, Okynk, and Bradley.

The fact that he wouldn't pay Tony Allen $3m per year doesn't make me feel confident that Smart returns even at full MLE numbers......there is a clear cut history of how Ainge utilizes his cap/tax dollars once his team is ready to contend He pays the stars and views role players as turnstile fodder......and that it is the coaches job to put it together.

This isn't really true.

While the Celtics were contending in 2007-2012, Ainge paid Rasheed the full midlevel in 2009. Jermaine O'Neal the full midlevel in 2010. Tried to pay Jeff Green more than the midlevel in 2011 before he failed his physical.

I don't think he really compares to any of the other guys you listed, except maybe Olynyk. You've listed a bunch of older guys, plus Bradley/Allen who got second contracts and not a third. Smart is 24 and looking for a second contract. Olynyk is only guy who was in same boat, except he was two years older and Smart plays a bigger role. I also think Ainge may have offered Olynyk decent money if Hayward turned down the Celtics and Kelly didn't have to be renounced.

Smart isn't really a role player for me, at least not in the way they're generally thought of. Though he's not a starter, he plays nearly starter minutes, and he doesn't start games but he often finishes them.

I consider him the Boston version of Andre Iguodala. You can't pay a bunch of role players big money, but you can maybe pay one key super role player big money. I'd be stunned if Smart got an MLE offer and the Celtics didn't match. I'd match anything outside of an outrageous offer to him.

 

[chilidawg]

Of course you don't give him something outrageous, the question is when does an offer become outrageous.

 

[TripleOT]

If Ainge is in love with Bagley, JJJ or Bamba, how about a godfather offer to the rebuilding Hawks. Rozier, the 27th pick in this draft, the Sacto pick, and the Memphis pic for 3? Those picks could possibly become top picks, but if they believe that the big they get this year will join JB and JT as the future of the franchise for the next decade, why not take the top pick you expect from those future picks now?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Of course you don't give him something outrageous, the question is when does an offer become outrageous.

Anything over $8m is outrageous for what his role will be on the team once Hayward returns now that Jaylen has made a leap......and even that is pushing it imo. Smart is a second unit role player on this team moving forward.....I don't know how you can categorize him as anything differently.

 

[lovegtm]

If Ainge is in love with Bagley, JJJ or Bamba, how about a godfather offer to the rebuilding Hawks. Rozier, the 27th pick in this draft, the Sacto pick, and the Memphis pic for 3? Those picks could possibly become top picks, but if they believe that the big they get this year will join JB and JT as the future of the franchise for the next decade, why not take the top pick you expect from those future picks now?

Looks like SOSH has a celebrity member. Hi, Mr. Colangelo!

 

[TripleOT]

Anything over $8m is outrageous for what his role will be on the team once Hayward returns now that Jaylen has made a leap......and even that is pushing it imo. Smart is a second unit role player on this team moving forward.....I don't know how you can categorize him as anything differently.

Assuming the Warriors are the team the Cs have to get by, Boston has to spend to keep up with them. Their top two subs, Iggy and Livingston, make $14.8M and $7.7M. Smart will be a key perimeter stopper, and he's a crunch time defensive playmaker, Boston's Iggy. He can step in at starting PG for the dozen or two dozen games that Kyrie may miss due to injury. They can pay him $10m because the have two top level contributors on rookie deals.

The Cs won't get to battle the Warriors with all weapons this season, but I'd like a go at them with the KI, GH, JB, JT, AL lineup, with Smart, Morris, Theis, and possibly TR off the pine. If it costs a couple million dollars more for Smart, so be it especially If they choose to trade TR this offseason.

 

[TripleOT]

Looks like SOSH has a celebrity member. Hi, Mr. Colangelo!

Colangelo was trading one known commodity, the 2017 3, and one unknown commodity, the LAL/Sacto pick, for a guy he felt was a can't miss franchise guy. It looks like he was wrong. If Ainge feels that a pick at 3 is a can't miss, franchise big that will fit in to today's game, and will dovetail perfectly with Tatum and Brown, why not take that sure thing now, especially with the chance to win a couple of rings before he has to start paying his high picks real money?

As we're seeing with Brown and Tatum, Ainge has proven he can snag franchise players with a top 3 pick. I trust him a million times more than Colangelo to make that pick, and to trade whatever future assets he needs to in order to win titles right now.

 

[mcpickl]

Of course you don't give him something outrageous, the question is when does an offer become outrageous.

For me, I snap match anything 12M or less. Probably still match in the 14M range.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Why not just try Rozier for Isaac straight up (i.e., plus Nader for salary reasons)?

In terms of Bender, I don't think he's a fit unless the Celtics thought they could get him to he a productive rotation player by next year. The whole reason to explore trading Rozier is because he only has one year of control left. Getting 2 years of a bigger project back isn't moving the needle much. A second year player like Isaac makes sense because they still have 3 years left so one development year could lead to two productive years for cheap (or one such year and then another trade).

Bundling Rozier and picks for a lottery pick in this draft also makes sense because the top 8 in this draft are very good prospects. For example, the Rozier plus Sac pick for #6 idea is founded in the idea that the Sac pick likely has an upside of similar value to #6 this year but has some real risk surrounding it. Rozier is the cost of solidifying our best case outcome. (I think #6 this year is probably roughly equivalent to #3 next year based on what we know now.)

Also, for those talking about risk regarding whose available, this isn't trading for #1. No trade is getting finalized until draft night, when the relevant GMs know who is available and who has slipped. The speculation now is more trying to guess what might work to anticipate what could happen on draft night.

I mean, I would love Rozier for Isaac but no chance Orlando does that.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Ok so what about the reports of KAT being shopped by the Wolves and Windhorst specifically mentioning the Celtics and Kyrie as a partner who makes sense?

KAT and Teague for Kyrie and Morris works then depending on Smart's contract we can then flip Teague for bench depth and/or a future 1st.

 

[the moops]

I am always game for hypothetical trades for superstars. Teague is garbage though. And his contract is not easily moved.

Make it simpler

Jaylen + Terry + MEM pick for KAT

 

[benhogan]

I am always game for hypothetical trades for superstars. Teague is garbage though. And his contract is not easily moved.

Make it simpler

Jaylen + Terry + MEM pick for KAT

no thanks

Ok so what about the reports of KAT being shopped by the Wolves and Windhorst specifically mentioning the Celtics and Kyrie as a partner who makes sense?

KAT and Teague for Kyrie and Morris works then depending on Smart's contract we can then flip Teague for bench depth and/or a future 1st.

yes please. But agree with Moops Teague may be tough to move...

paging Brooklyn Nets...Teague + Celtics '18 and '19 picks

 

[nighthob]

Salary-wise that works, but the T’wolves would probably prefer Tatum.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

yes please. But agree with Moops Teague may be tough to move...

paging Brooklyn Nets...Teague + Celtics '18 and '19 picks

If Smart gets an offer this summer we could simply keep Teague and then move him as an expiring the following summer as Rozier is extended. These are all minor issues if the prize is KAT.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Salary-wise that works, but the T’wolves would probably prefer Tatum.

Of course they would, but Tatum isn’t being traded unless it’s Anthony Davis on the other end. I don’t know why the Wolves are trading KAT, it doesn’t make much sense unless they get significantly higher value than he’s worth.

 

[the moops]

Salary-wise that works, but the T’wolves would probably prefer Tatum.

I could be convinced of that move too.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Of course they would, but Tatum isn’t being traded unless it’s Anthony Davis on the other end. I don’t know why the Wolves are trading KAT, it doesn’t make much sense unless they get significantly higher value than he’s worth.

Word is that he's asking to be traded. When your franchise guy tells you he doesn't want to be there you don't have much choice but to move him.

 

[nighthob]

Of course they would, but Tatum isn’t being traded unless it’s Anthony Davis on the other end. I don’t know why the Wolves are trading KAT, it doesn’t make much sense unless they get significantly higher value than he’s worth.

I’m not sure that Boston wouldn’t move Tatum for KATman. While he is defensively bad, at the moment, I’m not worried about it given the prospect of Towns apprenticing under his idol.

On a practical level you sort of need to keep the G around if you’re trading for another forward.