Will There Be MLB in 2020?

jon abbey

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There's a status quo, and the owners wanted to change the status quo. The players don't want to, so it won't change.
Eh, I think this is overly simplistic, that initial agreeement was never meant to be final by either side, it was a quick emergency deal put in place in the early days of Covid and was always meant to be superseded later. That's how I understood it anyway.
 

axx

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Will the players really play if the league tries to force the 50 game season? Maybe that's the "solution", let players opt out and it'll be basically AAA.
 

jon abbey

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What would happen to 80 game suspensions like German’s in that situation? All of this season and the first 30 games of next year?
I think he only has 63 games remaining, but yes (not sure if 2020 postseason games would count?).
 

cornwalls@6

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This seems like it has to ultimately result in 80-81 games for the season to have any credibility. I’d watch it as a diversion, but a 50-60 game season, and crowning a champion based on one, would be a joke IMO.
 
This seems like it has to ultimately result in 80-81 games for the season to have any credibility. I’d watch it as a diversion, but a 50-60 game season, and crowning a champion based on one, would be a joke IMO.
If they're going to play c. 50 games, they might as well just finish the 1994 season this year. (The Diamondbacks and Rays can take the year off.)
 

mauidano

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This seems like it has to ultimately result in 80-81 games for the season to have any credibility. I’d watch it as a diversion, but a 50-60 game season, and crowning a champion based on one, would be a joke IMO.
The 2020 season is an asterisk.
 

santadevil

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And the Nationals can return to Montreal for the rest of year.
22yo Pedro in his first year with the Expos, yes please
ERA+ of 124, tied for his 4th lowest in his career, of season of over 100 innings pitched (did that in 15 or 18 years)

And 27yo Larry Walker, in his last year with the Expos
 

axx

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If the owners are really serious about the 50 game schedule, I have to agree that it does seem like their strategy is just simply to wait until only 50 games is possible. If you also give the players a month to get in shape, etc, we're looking at something like this:

Mid July players report
Mid August - Mid October - season
Mid October - Mid November - playoffs

The other benefit of course is by waiting is that some other states might allow fans.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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Here is an article stating exactly what I have been saying/attempting to say here for a while, this is all on the owners, and why.

View: https://medium.com/@infoarbitrage/baseball-a-sacred-trust-c138801b3d2e
It's a bizarre article. He says the players are creditors even though the owners are not obligated to pay the players if there are no games and no balance or accrued interest will be owed for games not played. He also states that owners enjoy risk and return which is something I've never heard before (they only enjoy return). Then he writes that although the players are creditors they really should be partners with the owners. He defines this partnership as one where the owners borrow or use money from other sources to cover negative cash flow.

He can take the players side if he wants to, but he's supporting his opinion with nonsense.
 
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mauidano

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Today was supposed to be the "new" Spring Training start and the first games in a month. Owners/players agreed to that much and they literally "on the clock".

And how the fuck do the Texas teams get to have fans? Georgia and Florida can't be far behind. The Game is teetering on the edge of irrelevancy.

According to a Bloomberg piece written after the 2019 World Series, only about 24 percent of baseball fans are under age 35, compared with 45 percent of basketball fans. In fact, according to a 2017 study in Sports Business Journal, the average MLB television viewer is 57 years old— eight years older than the average NHL fan, seven years older than the average NFL fan, 15 years older than the average NBA fan and 17 years older than the average MLS fan. The only major sports with older viewers than MLB? The PGA, horse racing, ATP tennis and NASCAR.
 

santadevil

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It's a bizarre article. He says the players are creditors even though the owners are not obligated to pay the players if there are no games and no balance or accrued interest will be owed for games not played. He also states that owners enjoy risk and return which is something I've never heard before (they only enjoy return). Then he writes that although the players are creditors they really should be partners with the owners. He defines this partnership as one where the owners borrow or use money from other sources to cover negative cash flow.

He can take the players side if he wants to, but he's supporting his opinion with nonsense.
I'm not siding with the owners here, but they will always have risk associated with being an owner. They either put up their own money or borrow heavily to buy the team. While franchise values have consistently gone up, doesn't mean it will always be so. Especially with a shrinking and aging fan base, I can definitely see a 50/50 chance that values staying stagnant or decrease over the next 20 years
 

axx

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Any reason to think the players will strike next year? Regardless of what happens, payrolls are going down next year for sure.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Of course. As a fan though, I don't feel bad for anyone involved except the fans, salaried staff and minor leaguers. We need baseball more than ever. We truly do. The players and owners deserve absolutely nothing from the fans right now except scorn. Not only because they haven't reached a deal but because they are actively adding to the stress of everyday people who are trying to claw their way to positive news. So, pardon me for calling them whiny and entitled but they are.
Sorry, I have to ask how is it actively adding stress to people's lives to not have baseball? It may be removing a distraction or stress reducer for some people, but actively adding?
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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You sure about that? Either part really. I don't doubt for a second they're that stupid and I'm pretty sure they've proven it more than once. Certainly at least well enough to not deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Am I sure about that? Uh, no.
Do I stand by what I said? Yes, I think I was fairly clear.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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This is probably a dumb idea, but could organizations ask for an advance on next year's TV deals to help make an 81 game season happen? It's probably too little, or the funds necessary on an advance are too miniscule, but could this help facilitate a half season this year?
 

axx

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This is probably a dumb idea, but could organizations ask for an advance on next year's TV deals to help make an 81 game season happen? It's probably too little, or the funds necessary on an advance are too miniscule, but could this help facilitate a half season this year?
There may be cash flow issues but I doubt it's that bad.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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I'm not siding with the owners here, but they will always have risk associated with being an owner. They either put up their own money or borrow heavily to buy the team. While franchise values have consistently gone up, doesn't mean it will always be so. Especially with a shrinking and aging fan base, I can definitely see a 50/50 chance that values staying stagnant or decrease over the next 20 years
I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing, but I was commenting on the writer stating that owners enjoy both risk and return. Obviously they don't enjoy risk.

I don't understand why MLB has an aging fan base. Participation in Little League baseball has continued to grow steadily.
This is probably a dumb idea, but could organizations ask for an advance on next year's TV deals to help make an 81 game season happen? It's probably too little, or the funds necessary on an advance are too miniscule, but could this help facilitate a half season this year?
The networks aren't banks and would have to borrow to give an advance to MLB.
 

JimD

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Ken Rosenthal is pessimistic:

Well, the possibility of Major League Baseball staging Opening Day on July 4 is all but gone, barring a sudden agreement between players and owners who cannot overcome their distrust of one another even as the nation attempts to cope with far greater concerns.

July 4 is less than a month away. Once a new agreement is reached – if a new agreement is reached – players would need time to report for spring training, particularly those returning from foreign countries. Teams would need at least 10 days to prepare their spring-training sites and/or home ballparks to comply with new medical protocols, according to MLB. Spring training 2.0 would last a minimum of three weeks.



The way negotiations are dragging, the start of the season easily might be delayed until August, and 50 to 60 games might prove the only option. The initial March agreement between the parties allows for the extension of the regular season, but experts say a second wave of the virus is possible in the fall, and MLB’s infectious disease consultant, Dr. Ali Kahn, advised the league to complete the season and postseason as early as possible. The union’s proposal for a 114-game schedule suggested playing regular-season games through Oct. 31, followed by a postseason that likely would not be completed until early December, according to dueling letters between the parties, copies of which were obtained by The Athletic.

My interest in a 2020 MLB season is all but gone now. This sport is in a spiral to irrelevancy and both parties are too stubborn to realize it.
 

axx

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The angst is part of the reason I thought MLB should have cancelled once it was obvious they wouldn't be allowed to have fans in time in all states.
 

Trautwein's Degree

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Baseball's biggest problem is baseball isn't being played and no one really even cares. 10 or 15 years ago this thread on this site would have been a 100 pages long. It's 3 pages. There are only a handful of people - including a rabid contingent from the mid 2000s who I'm friends with on social media even half heartedly lamenting that there's no baseball.

Mike Trout could walk through any airport in this country without being so much as noticed let alone hounded for an autograph or a selfie.

I have friends who have had season tickets in their family for decades. Great seats down the first base line. Before it was great, if he couldn't go he could sell them for above face. Then at least he could get face value. In 2018 he calls me and says "you want to buy a bundle of 20 games - I can't even give these tickets away anymore - this was to see a World Series winning team in Boston.

This is a dying game, with old a very old fan base, and these are just the start of many labor problems in the future. They could cancel and it would take most people weeks to notice it happened and when they did they wouldn't even care.
 

MeddlePAL

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Baseball's biggest problem is baseball isn't being played and no one really even cares.
Basically this. I check the box scores every so often but until about August I'm totally tuned out. Then maybe I'll watch some games. I go to Fenway mostly to drink with friends and sit outside and chat while there is some live entertainment in the background.

I still tune in for the playoffs, but even then I do not sweat it if I miss one of the meaningless games early in the series.
 

swiftaw

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I absolutely agree with the last couple of posts. Baseball is in big trouble. You would think that the current situation would make both sides realize it, and come together to figure out a plan, but that doesn't seem to be the case. They should absolutely pay attention to the fact that most people don't even notice or care that baseball isn't being played right now, or about when it might start. Compare that to the amount of concern that there may not be football in the Fall.
 

axx

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Baseball's biggest problem is baseball isn't being played and no one really even cares. 10 or 15 years ago this thread on this site would have been a 100 pages long. It's 3 pages. There are only a handful of people - including a rabid contingent from the mid 2000s who I'm friends with on social media even half heartedly lamenting that there's no baseball.

Mike Trout could walk through any airport in this country without being so much as noticed let alone hounded for an autograph or a selfie.

I have friends who have had season tickets in their family for decades. Great seats down the first base line. Before it was great, if he couldn't go he could sell them for above face. Then at least he could get face value. In 2018 he calls me and says "you want to buy a bundle of 20 games - I can't even give these tickets away anymore - this was to see a World Series winning team in Boston.

This is a dying game, with old a very old fan base, and these are just the start of many labor problems in the future. They could cancel and it would take most people weeks to notice it happened and when they did they wouldn't even care.
I think being mostly on Cable is a big problem. But it's not just an MLB issue, it's not like the NBA is lighting it up on the TV ratings either.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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In terms of youth participation and TV viewership, baseball is not dying. Why does this narrative pop up every few posts? The only thing that is taking a slight dip is attendance. Like I said, the sport is doing fine among kids and tv viewers. MLB has its issues as a league, but there is still a deep passion for the sport of baseball.

Edit. This wasn’t a troll post, let’s just agree to disagree. We all want baseball back in our lives.
 
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InsideTheParker

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Ken Rosenthal is pessimistic:




My interest in a 2020 MLB season is all but gone now. This sport is in a spiral to irrelevancy and both parties are too stubborn to realize it.
I don't feel this way at all. People have a lot on their minds now. But if/when the games begin, their interest will revive. I don't expect or think there should be baseball until there's a vaccine, but that doesn't mean I have lost interest. (Adding: this is the weekend I wanted to get to Fenway to see the dear, departed BROCKHOLT! I am sad to have missed that.)
 
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Max Power

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Baseball's biggest problem is baseball isn't being played and no one really even cares. 10 or 15 years ago this thread on this site would have been a 100 pages long. It's 3 pages. There are only a handful of people - including a rabid contingent from the mid 2000s who I'm friends with on social media even half heartedly lamenting that there's no baseball.

Mike Trout could walk through any airport in this country without being so much as noticed let alone hounded for an autograph or a selfie.

I have friends who have had season tickets in their family for decades. Great seats down the first base line. Before it was great, if he couldn't go he could sell them for above face. Then at least he could get face value. In 2018 he calls me and says "you want to buy a bundle of 20 games - I can't even give these tickets away anymore - this was to see a World Series winning team in Boston.

This is a dying game, with old a very old fan base, and these are just the start of many labor problems in the future. They could cancel and it would take most people weeks to notice it happened and when they did they wouldn't even care.
Does anyone care that there's no basketball, hockey, or football, either? We're in the middle of a pandemic and protests all around the country. America is a little distracted by other important stuff to worry too much about a weird empty stadium approximation of your favorite sport.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yes. Do you enjoy constantly being disappointed by the things you love?
I don’t generally assign that much weight to things outside of my immediate sphere, like work, family, friends, etc. certainly not that it would ‘disappoint me’ so much to cause stress in my life, but everyone is different I guess. Things that add stress to my life are generally ones that add consequence.
 

grimshaw

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Does anyone care that there's no basketball, hockey, or football, either?
Hell ya.

I'm as stressed, angry, and depressed as anyone about the state of our country. I'm not the only one here to lose their job and be unsure about their future. You can infer in this part of the forum that there is adequate concern while simultaneously wanting nice things. There would be little to discuss otherwise here.
 

BaseballJones

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This seems like it has to ultimately result in 80-81 games for the season to have any credibility. I’d watch it as a diversion, but a 50-60 game season, and crowning a champion based on one, would be a joke IMO.
I agree. But at this point, I don’t care. I just want to see sports come back. Any baseball is better than no baseball. Games will be played, guys will compete. It will be bizarre but oh well.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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While it’s hard to take sides in a very unseemly squabble between billionaires and millionaires , I find little credibility in the players position that behind closed doors has no affect on the industry’s bottom line - which is what they are arguing by refusing to take any salary reduction beyond prorated missed games. Rosenthal‘s piece illustrates that the union is attempting to use this crisis to “fix” perceived past negotiating mistakes - while the owner are certainly being disingenuous as well.

This has to stop. Any solution for this year has to be viewed as strictly temporary .. with major sacrifices from both sides. Play a 100 game season behind closed doors .. pay the players for just those 100 games at a reduced rate - say 80% - which reflects the lost revenue for having empty stadiums. Why is this contentious? It doesn’t matter if the owners are lying about the magnitude of the projected losses. You are just haggling over a number.

The alternative - no baseball at all for 18 months - may very well kill off the sport for good. You think there’s problems getting a deal right now? Teams may very well have to lay-off their entire workforce .. and these aren’t multi millionaires who will have to simply forgo their third Porsche in the garage.
 
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axx

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This has to stop. Any solution for this year has to be viewed as strictly temporary .. with major sacrifices from both sides. Play a 100 game season behind closed doors .. pay the players for just those 100 games at a reduced rate - say 80% - which reflects the lost revenue for having empty stadiums. Why is this contentious? It doesn’t matter if the owners are lying about the magnitude of the projected losses. You are just haggling over a number.
You got the CBA negotiations... which even before this was going to be very problematic. Have to think the union believes that giving more than 81 for half would hurt their position, and I can't blame them.
 

Earthbound64

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In terms of youth participation and TV viewership, baseball is not dying. Why does this narrative pop up every few posts?
It literally seems like some people actively want to push the narrative that Baseball is dying and that this is going to cause things to fall apart completely, and want to come up with excuse after excuse why this is happening and is going to happen and continue to happen, regardless of anything else.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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I think people confuse the issues with the league as being the same for the sport itself. MLB is not perfect, and there are major labor hurdles down the road, but there is still passion for the game itself. We’ve been hearing “Soccer is going to replace baseball as the National Pastime” for decades.