Will they? Can they....I wll enjoy how the Panthers play out.

ifmanis5 · Dec 9, 2015

The Eli lucky duck in a big game factor is strong. Like, Jedi strong but also unpredictable. Which Giants team shows up? That's the big question.
I give the Panthers credit for beating the two best teams in the NFC (GB and SEA) but the rest of their schedule has been really weak.

Mooch · Dec 9, 2015

I think the Falcons, as awful as they are right now, have a very good chance to win one of those two games. They typically play the Panthers tough (particularly in Atlanta) and have given Newton some problems in the past. The Kyle Shanahan offense has gone into a shell lately, and I'd expect them to take more risks against the Panthers. Matt Ryan has played pretty well against Carolina in his career and I'd expect them to throw the kitchen sink at that defense since their season is very much on the line.

BigSoxFan · Dec 9, 2015

The Giants will beat the Panthers if the Falcons don't. This is exactly the type of game that they win.

Gunfighter 09 · Dec 9, 2015

bakahump said:
So Panthers watch.
. If the 07 Pats FELT and succumbed to the (eventual) pressure....what do you think the Carolina Panthers will do.

I think the Panthers will drop one of the games just due to the fact that all of their opponents will be desperate to win to get in the playoffs and they will clinch homefield in the next two weeks. But, the above quote is a bunch of nonsense that Pats players only said after Asante Samuel forgot how to catch and passed on hitting David Tyree. If and when the Pathers lose it will have noting to do with the pressure of disappointing Mercury Morris.

pappymojo · Dec 9, 2015

My current fantasy is that Carolina is undefeated heading into the super bowl only to have their dreams dashed by the Patriots who win the game mostly on some bullshit fluke plays.

Byrdbrain · Dec 9, 2015

What I wonder about in the above scenario is who Don Shula would pull for. Which would win out his desire to have the only "perfect" season or his hatred of the Patriots?

Harry Hooper · Dec 9, 2015

Ehhh, my favorite Shula memory (other than his being incensed by the snowplow) was watching the Super Bowl broadcast in England years ago and having Shula brought in to be the expert studio commentator for the Brits. He was drunker than drunk on the telly.

Back on the subject, what a scheduling quirk to be paying a division rival twice in 3 weeks down the stretch. I actually expect the Panthers to pull 16-0 off as the Giants' toast seems due to land buttered-side-down

BaseballJones · Dec 10, 2015

I know this Panthers team is pretty good, but I can't believe they're 16-0 good. And yet....I think they're going to do it. But I think they could be handled in the playoffs by either Seattle or Arizona. The way things are situated right now, here's the seedings:

1. Car
2. Ari
3. GB
4. Was
5. Min
6. Sea

The way GB has been playing, I think Sea wins that game. Then they get Carolina. Then if Carolina gets past them, they get Arizona in the NFCCG (Ari won't lose to either Was or Min).

So the Panthers would have to, most likely, get by the other two best teams in the NFC in Seattle and Arizona. Then, hopefully, the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

If they can pull that off, they will have absolutely earned an undefeated season.

Lose Remerswaal · Dec 10, 2015

Who loses first: Carolina or Golden State?

JMDurron · Dec 10, 2015

Byrdbrain said:
What I wonder about in the above scenario is who Don Shula would pull for. Which would win out his desire to have the only "perfect" season or his hatred of the Patriots?

Given that his son is the OC for the Panthers, I'm guessing he'd take the family tie-in to yet another undefeated season over another Patriots win.

tims4wins · Dec 10, 2015

Given how Seattle is playing, is it conceivable that they could possibly be a favorite @ Carolina in the divisional round??

BaseballJones · Dec 10, 2015

tims4wins said:
Given how Seattle is playing, is it conceivable that they could possibly be a favorite @ Carolina in the divisional round??

I think when Seattle is right, they're definitely a better team than Carolina is. But with the game being in Carolina, that probably would be a pretty awesome game. But if I was a betting man (which I'm not), I'd put my money on Seattle there.

In fact, I think it's likely to be either Seattle or Arizona in the Super Bowl representing the NFC. But who knows. This is the NFL.

jablo1312 · Dec 10, 2015

Byrdbrain said:
What I wonder about in the above scenario is who Don Shula would pull for. Which would win out his desire to have the only "perfect" season or his hatred of the Patriots?

Shula is on record as rooting for his son's team to go undefeated (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article44130336.html).

The Seahawks are rolling, and are definitely capable of going into Carolina and winning that game. As are the Cardinals. Either of those games would be a phenomenal playoff game. Same with Seattle going into Arizona.

FWIW 5Dimes (online sportsbook) has put up odds for each of the following:

Panthers 16-0: +260
Panthers 18-0: +550
Panthers 19-0: +950

One thing that stands out is that, even with 4 games left against weaker opponents, the Panthers are still over 2:1 underdogs to complete the regular season undefeated. The 07 Pats at this time had to have been better than even money to finish 16-0. Granted, I think most people would tell you the '07 Pats were better than this years Panthers, even after the Pats faded in the 2nd half of that season, but I'm somewhat surprised the odds are this low.

Just tracked down this blog-post http://www.vegaswatch.org/2007/12/week-14-undefeated-odds.html from December 2007- reporting that the odds given on the Pats finishing 16-0 after starting 12-0 were around -250 and -350. Pretty huge jump from this year's Panthers odds. Personally, I think they get it done, if they want to go for it.

Byrdbrain · Dec 10, 2015

JMDurron said:
Given that his son is the OC for the Panthers, I'm guessing he'd take the family tie-in to yet another undefeated season over another Patriots win.

An excellent point that completely slipped my mind.

Super Nomario · Dec 10, 2015

jablo1312 said:
Shula is on record as rooting for his son's team to go undefeated (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article44130336.html).

The Seahawks are rolling, and are definitely capable of going into Carolina and winning that game. As are the Cardinals. Either of those games would be a phenomenal playoff game. Same with Seattle going into Arizona.

The perception that the Seahawks are on fire is kind of funny. Their offense has been terrific since the the bye, but the D has given up 30 points in two of the games since - 39 to Arizona and 30 to the Steelers - and more than 450 yards in both of those games. Yes, if they can pair their newfound offensive efficiency with the kind of defensive performance they got last week against Minnesota, their ceiling is arguably higher than anyone's, but they've been pretty inconsistent on both sides of the ball this year. For any n > 1, the Panthers are the hotter team over n weeks.

jablo1312 said:
Shula is on record as rooting for his son's team to go undefeated
FWIW 5Dimes (online sportsbook) has put up odds for each of the following:

Panthers 16-0: +260
Panthers 18-0: +550
Panthers 19-0: +950

One thing that stands out is that, even with 4 games left against weaker opponents, the Panthers are still over 2:1 underdogs to complete the regular season undefeated. The 07 Pats at this time had to have been better than even money to finish 16-0. Granted, I think most people would tell you the '07 Pats were better than this years Panthers, even after the Pats faded in the 2nd half of that season, but I'm somewhat surprised the odds are this low.

Just tracked down this blog-post http://www.vegaswatch.org/2007/12/week-14-undefeated-odds.html from December 2007- reporting that the odds given on the Pats finishing 16-0 after starting 12-0 were around -250 and -350. Pretty huge jump from this year's Panthers odds. Personally, I think they get it done, if they want to go for it.

Winning four games in a row is pretty tough. This is one of those ways in which humans are bad at intuitive probability - because it's easy to visualize the Panthers winning each game, it's easy to visualize them winning every game, when in actuality that's a much more difficult proposition, even over what seems like a small number of games.

Norm Siebern · Dec 10, 2015

The connection between the 1972 Dolphins and the 2015 Panthers goes beyond the offensive coordinator.

The Redskins were the favorite going into that 1973 Super Bowl, which reflected how people saw that Dolphins team. The mists of time have shrouded that team in glory, but in reality they are the single most overrated team in pro sports history. The first time the Dolphins played an opponent that year who had a winning record when they played was in the playoffs. Over the course of the season only the Chiefs had a winning record of any team they played that year, and that was 8-6.

So, in that sense, the Panthers are the perfect team to inherit the perfect mantle. They too have played a remarkably soft schedule, are vastly overrated and may well be underdogs when they actually have to play a quality team in the playoffs. The Seahawks or Packers teams they may meet in the playoffs are vastly different versions than the teams the Panthers beat earlier in the year, to say nothing of Arizona.

Norm Siebern · Dec 10, 2015

To follow up on what I wrote earlier, I made one mistake. The '72 Dolphins played two teams that had winning records that year, the 8-6 Chiefs and the 8-6 Giants. The Giants were the only team to have a winning record when they played the Dolphins, when the Giants were 7-5. The Dolphins played no division winners, and no playoff teams until they reached the playoffs themselves. Their schedule had them playing a combined opponent winning percenage of .364. And this is supposedly the "greatest team ever." What a joke.

By comparison the Panthers have played two teams so far who have a current winning record, the Packers and the Seahawks. At this point those are the only two playoff teams on their schedule, with one probable division winner (GB). There is a possibility that Houston would be a third. By default one of the NFC East division teams will have to win their division, and either Indy or Houston will win their division as well (by default). Right now after 12 weeks, the combined winning percentage of their opponents is .435.

For comparison I then took a look at the 2007 New England Patriots, who played a schedule that had a combined winning percentage of opponents of .449. Included in that scheduile were 4 division winners (Indianapolis, Dallas, San Diego and Pittsburgh) plus another playoff team (New York Giants). They also played a ten win Browns team that in spite of the ten wins somehow did not make the playoffs.

tims4wins · Dec 11, 2015

BaseballJones said:
I know this Panthers team is pretty good, but I can't believe they're 16-0 good. And yet....I think they're going to do it. But I think they could be handled in the playoffs by either Seattle or Arizona. The way things are situated right now, here's the seedings:

1. Car
2. Ari
3. GB
4. Was
5. Min
6. Sea

The way GB has been playing, I think Sea wins that game. Then they get Carolina. Then if Carolina gets past them, they get Arizona in the NFCCG (Ari won't lose to either Was or Min).

So the Panthers would have to, most likely, get by the other two best teams in the NFC in Seattle and Arizona. Then, hopefully, the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

If they can pull that off, they will have absolutely earned an undefeated season.

This isn't likely to hold. Seattle is going to pass Minnesota for the 5th seed, since they have the head to head win. That makes Seattle's path a little easier, as they will get to play the NFC East winner instead of @GB.

So we will likely see Seattle @ Carolina and GB @ Arizona in the 2nd round. Both are compelling games.

Either way, Seattle is still likely to have to win at both Carolina and Arizona in order to make the Super Bowl, which is still a very difficult path, but slightly easier than going to Green Bay first.

Dehere · Dec 11, 2015

I think the Panthers are generally underrated, probably because they lack a slam-dunk HOFer or a recent record of success. It's a little hard to believe that this could be the second 16-0 team ever but I think that's where they're headed. They have an MVP candidate at QB and a strong DPOY candidate in Kuechly (he's got my vote). Offensively they throw a ton of different looks at a defense and they have great variety in their playcalling. I don't think people take them seriously enough. I think they're going 17-0 and then if they face AZ in the NFCC, well, that's going to be a hell of a game. AZ has, I believe, more high-quality starters than any team in the league but CAR would arguably have the single best player on the field when either team has the ball. Team merits huge respect IMO and I'm rooting hard for them for at least the next four weeks.

coremiller · Dec 11, 2015

Super Nomario said:
The perception that the Seahawks are on fire is kind of funny. Their offense has been terrific since the the bye, but the D has given up 30 points in two of the games since - 39 to Arizona and 30 to the Steelers - and more than 450 yards in both of those games. Yes, if they can pair their newfound offensive efficiency with the kind of defensive performance they got last week against Minnesota, their ceiling is arguably higher than anyone's, but they've been pretty inconsistent on both sides of the ball this year. For any n > 1, the Panthers are the hotter team over n weeks.

The games in which Seattle allowed 30+ points were against the #3 and #4 DVOA offenses. Football Outsiders has Seattle second in DVOA and first in Weighted DVOA (giving more weight to recent games). Carolina is 6th and 4th, respectively. Seattle has a better SRS as well, where Seattle is 5th and Carolina 7th.

As Norm points out, Carolina is undefeated primarily because they've played a very easy schedule. They are paired this year with the NFC East and the AFC South, the two worst divisions in the league, and their own NFC South might be the third worst. Their SoS is 30th by SRS and 29th by DVOA. They're a good team that's played an easy schedule and gotten some breaks along the way.

soxfan121 · Dec 11, 2015

Super Nomario · Dec 11, 2015

coremiller said:
The games in which Seattle allowed 30+ points were against the #3 and #4 DVOA offenses.

Sure, but the two games where they allowed fewer than 20 points were to the teams that rank 28th and 32nd in points scored (30th and 32nd in yardage). In the last four weeks, Seattle's defense has played well against bad offenses and not well against good offenses. The offense is the unit that's really played well, but I don't have a good handle on whether that's likely to continue.

As an aside, for some reason Minnesota ranks 17th in offensive DVOA, which doesn't really square with most of the other stats, which have them in the bottom of the league. I'm guessing that FO finds Seattle's blowout win significantly more impressive than they would if the Vikings' DVOA was more in line with their points / yards. Since DVOA is a black box, we can't really unpack that any further, which is one of the reasons I tend to avoid DVOA.

coremiller said:
As Norm points out, Carolina is undefeated primarily because they've played a very easy schedule. They are paired this year with the NFC East and the AFC South, the two worst divisions in the league, and their own NFC South might be the third worst. Their SoS is 30th by SRS and 29th by DVOA. They're a good team that's played an easy schedule and gotten some breaks along the way.

I think that's fair. I also don't see anyone that's better.

GeorgeCostanza · Dec 13, 2015

Nice sideline group photo while the game was still going on. Act like you've been there before fellas.

edmunddantes · Dec 14, 2015

They haven't. First 13 win season in history of the Panthers.

johnmd20 · Dec 14, 2015

GeorgeCostanza said:
Nice sideline group photo while the game was still going on. Act like you've been there before fellas.

The game was going on in name only. Atlanta didn't show up yesterday and deserved nothing but disdain from Carolina.

Ralphwiggum · Dec 27, 2015

So, it's pretty hard to go 16-0.

I'm kind of happy they lost. Despite the way the season ended I like the fact that the 2007 Pats are the only team to accomplish this.

Fuck Don Shula in the ear, though.

lithos2003 · Dec 27, 2015

Think the Falcons remember the disrespect shown to them just 2 weeks ago by the Panthers?

joeflah · Dec 28, 2015

Arizona maybe better than GB, Sea and the Panthers.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Dec 28, 2015

heardon the radio that betting the money line and rolling the winnings into the nexr
t bet, a $100 investment would have grown until $90+ thousand.

Until this week, however

Will they? Can they....I wll enjoy how the Panthers play out.

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