Women's World Cup 2019

coremiller

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Jul 14, 2005
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You may be right, but I don't see much of a difference between the handball today and Sissoko's against Liverpool. Both PKs, but why didn't Sissoko get a yellow? What about Kimpebe in the PSG-MAN U match? No yellow given there.
The Sissoko PK was not a shot on target, so it wasn't a denial of a goal-scoring opportunity. Maybe that's the difference?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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So, just looking at the laws, there is a progression of questions.

1. Was it a handling offense. As noted, for defensive players, the laws still require "deliberate" but now there's a bunch of guidance about where the arm is that makes it sound as though deliberate doesn't really mean what we think deliberate means.

2. If it was a handball offense, then a player "must" be cautioned if it stops a promising attack.

3. If it was a handball offense, then a player "must" be sent off if it was a denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

4. Whether or not it was a caution or a sending off, if it was in the box, it's a penalty.

Interestingly, fouls that stop a "promising" attack are also a yellow card, but the laws allow the yellow not to be given if the foul occurred in the penalty area and thus a penalty is awarded. There is no corresponding rule for handling in the box. If you handle and it stops a promising attack, it's a yellow. If you handle and it denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity, then it's a sending off. If either happens in the box, it's also a penalty, and the card is still shown.

So, I think the answer to the Moussa hand ball must be that the ref decided it was not a promising attack, which I think is a bad call. It was a promising attack. I think the ref just chose to use some discretion because the handling was harsh. I guess that was the basis for not showing Kimpebe a card either even though that seemed like a promising attack.

Anyway, I think I should probably amend what I said before, which I think now that we've all hashed it out was wrong. The fact that handling offenses by the defense is "deliberate" by definition under the laws (under the now admittedly stranger view of "deliberate") does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that it should usually be a caution. The caution or sending off decision is, indeed, separate and it turns on whether it interrupted a promising attack or goal scoring chance.

A true "intentional" hand ball is always going to be (or almost always going to be) in the service of stopping a promising chance. So it should usually be a yellow. But the new variety of non-intentional but "deliberate" handballs are not necessarily going to be denials of promising attacks. I would think usually they would be, but they need not be.

So, very long way of saying that: (1) the ball-to-hand-in-unnatural-position handling is still regarded as "deliberate," but (2) the question whether to show a yellow turns on how promising the attack was.

Or even more tl/dr that masks that I was just wrong: yes, there will be plenty of handballs, even in the box, that need not be given cautions.
 

67YAZ

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Dec 1, 2000
5,256
Just caught up on DVR. Gutted for Japan. I like how they played and how their style contrasted with the other teams. They should have a bright future if some of these younger players continue to grow and the coaching remains just as superb. Watch out in 2023 (wherever that will be).
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
15,237
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I feel like about 80% of the plays ruled "deliberate handball" are anything but. The defender is keeping their arms at their sides, or close to it, and definitely in a "natural position", but because it's not directly in front of their chest or whatever, penalty kick. For example, as you're going into a slide, the natural position of your arms is down, to brace your fall.

If the ball hit the hand more than the hand hit the ball, if it wasn't in a truly unnatural position, you can't award a penalty kick. I'm not saying it all has to be "Luis Suarez vs Ghana" level to merit a PK, but reasonable people should be able to agree there was intent to play the ball with the hand.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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No matches today (Weds). QFs schedule is:

Thurs, 3pm ET: Norway-England (Le Havre)
Fri, 3pm ET: France-USA (Paris)
Sat, 9am ET: Italy-Netherlands (Valenciennes)
Sat, 12:30pm ET: Germany-Sweden (Rennes)

(SFs on Tues & Weds next week, both 3pm ET, both in Lyon)

Something tells me workplace productivity will take a noticeable hit Friday afternoon.
 

Zososoxfan

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Jul 30, 2009
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South of North
No matches today (Weds). QFs schedule is:

Thurs, 3pm ET: Norway-England (Le Havre)
Fri, 3pm ET: France-USA (Paris)
Sat, 9am ET: Italy-Netherlands (Valenciennes)
Sat, 12:30pm ET: Germany-Sweden (Rennes)

(SFs on Tues & Weds next week, both 3pm ET, both in Lyon)

Something tells me workplace productivity will take a noticeable hit Friday afternoon.
Copa America Argentina-Venezuela at 3pm as well.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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I feel comfortable predicting USA-France will out-draw that outside of south america. Not least because of more limited TV coverage, but still.
 

Reverend

for king and country
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Norway is frequently imprecise with the balls they play. To the point that it is noticeable.
 

67YAZ

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Dec 1, 2000
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Nikita Parris is a helluva player. I think the key to stopping England is to stymie her. Easier said...
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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Norway is just giving them a ton of space. I guess they're pressing really high up and there's a lot of space behind the forwards but it's almost strange how open it is.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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Nikita Parris is a helluva player. I think the key to stopping England is to stymie her. Easier said...
I’d just overload that right side of the England attack. Parris-Bronze is deadly, but I’ve yet to see Neville come up with anything else.
 

blueline

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Nov 23, 2012
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Anyone else having bad flashbacks to the '07 semifinals when Scurry randomly replaced Hope Solo in goal?
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
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Oct 31, 2013
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Jill, WTF is wrong with you?

My stress level is already at unheard of USWNT QF levels

Lots of pressure on Mewis and Lavelle.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Jill, WTF is wrong with you?

My stress level is already at unheard of USWNT QF levels

Lots of pressure on Mewis and Lavelle.
lot of pressure on Dunn, playing ouit of position at left back against a team that beat the USWNT recently by just destroying the left side.
 

Reverend

for king and country
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How does a ball bounce in the box like that with nobody touching it?

And it seems to happen all the time.