World Cup Day 18--Netherlands/Mexico, Greece/Costa Rica

JGray38

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2003
2,945
Rockport, MA
How much are the late goals due to the conditions? I can image the occasional lapse due to the heat and humidity after 90 minutes and it seems like one small lapse is enough to provide an opportunity for a goal.
 

johnmd20

figuratively like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
46,107
New York City
theapportioner said:
They should really allow one extra substitution during extra time. It's not really fun watching two exhausted teams.
 
That wouldn't be a bad rule.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
17,601
Rogers Park
rembrat said:
It's nice that you think I have any idea what this means. Give me some time.
 
The Azzuri are the Italians (blue shirts — the same reason France is called Les Bleus). 
 
Catenaccio is their local variant of defensive, counter-attacking soccer. The Italians have often made it kind of beautiful, because they have often had defensive midfielders with unbelievable distribution abilities — Andrea Pirlo is the current vintage — who transition the play from defense to attack with artful passing. 
 
But more typically, that style can be a bit boring. 
 

johnmd20

figuratively like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
46,107
New York City
URI said:
When they were looking to score, Spain played a very attractive soocer.

But in the last World Cup, they basically maintained possession in the midfield and choked the game there. Think the Dean Smith 4 corners defense.
 
New Jersey Devils neutral zone trap.
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
nvalvo said:
 I think we're seeing a combination of relatively more parity in global soccer (for example, these Cinderella Ticos), and having some highly ranked clubs (*cough*, Spain) underperform, in a way that has led to a lot of competitive soccer.
I don't know if Spain "underperformed" as much as they got old. The loss of Puyol seems to have really hurt them.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
45,086
URI said:
Azzuri = the Italians
catenaccio = a defensive style of play that Italy played a lot in the 60s and 70s, and have used versions of since that basically using 5 defenders, including 1 that had no man marking responsibilities whose only job is to play free safety. This is an oversimplification, but it's come to mean "Over defensive, negative soccer"

No one likes catenaccio, other than Italian fans, and Bonger.
 
I've seen some interesting stuff written that the beautiful game style that Brazil is famous for is, ironically, no longer exhibited much by Brazil but has managed to be adopted by more Europeans in ways that have come to defeat the defensive approach.
 
I don't watch enough non-USMNT international play to know if this has filtered down to lower levels. Thoughts?
 
And oh look, another shot on goal that should have been kept low...
 

URI

stands for life, liberty and the uturian way of li
Dope
Aug 18, 2001
10,329
theapportioner said:
They should really allow one extra substitution during extra time. It's not really fun watching two exhausted teams.
You're wrong. They should keep playing because PK's are dumb. Or something.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
17,601
Rogers Park
JayMags71 said:
I don't know if Spain "underperformed" as much as they got old. The loss of Puyol seems to have really hurt them.
 
I'd say that Xavi was the key, but the idea's the same. When the rankings were made, Spain were legitimate superpowers, but that was on the other side of Xavi's sell-by date. 
 

McBride11

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,744
Charleston, SC
5v2, great save. Props to the Tico who sprinted 80yds back. That is wicked impressive in these conditions at this time.
 

Djiraan Iraassi

ángel de la muerte
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2008
25
Spain
Zomp said:
 
It was, but Spain played a style that some (myself included) see as very defensive and boring.  
You're free to dislike Spain's style, but calling it "defensive" is oxymoronic. In football you only defend when you don't have the ball. It's like calling a QB or a DH "defensive".

Now, boring, doesn't create too many goal opportunities, slow, boring? OK.
 

ToeKneeArmAss

Paul Byrd's pitching coach
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Reverend said:
 
For the first time in whatever people think of as the modern age of soccer, the refs have swallowed the whistle on flopping which has caused it to be ineffective, and to my eye anyway, already reduced it's incidence.
I suspect Bosoxen might not fully agree with this assessment.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
17,601
Rogers Park
theapportioner said:
They should really allow one extra substitution during extra time. It's not really fun watching two exhausted teams.
 
This is the best rule proposal to come out of the World Cup forum. 
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
45,086
rajendra82 said:
Did you see the Red Sox hat among the Greek supporters?
 
 
Edit: This said something different before.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
42,400
SoxFanInCali said:
Only the Greeks could turn a 5 on 2 into one bad angle shot and no rebound.
Radio call: "it's like the Alamo--5 on 2!!! Here they come!!"
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
12,389
The Slums of Shaolin
Djiraan Iraassi said:
You're free to dislike Spain's style, but calling it "defensive" is oxymoronic. In football you only defend when you don't have the ball. It's like calling a QB or a DH "defensive".

Now, boring, doesn't create too many goal opportunities, slow, boring? OK.
 
Which to me means its a defensive style.  Again though, this has been debated before so I can understand both sides.  But to me, their style certainly is defensive.
 

URI

stands for life, liberty and the uturian way of li
Dope
Aug 18, 2001
10,329
Dogman2 said:
I SAID THAT ALREADY JOHN
I'm jealous of how you guys became bff so quick. When I tried to be besties with him, he just lashed out.

johnmd20 said:
I usually don't read your posts. Sorry.
Never mind. Mr. Grumpypants is back!
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
45,086
ToeKneeArmAss said:
I suspect Bosoxen might not fully agree with this assessment.
 
It's cool--I don't think any electronics within 2 yards of him work right now, so he'll never see it.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Djiraan Iraassi said:
You're free to dislike Spain's style, but calling it "defensive" is oxymoronic. In football you only defend when you don't have the ball. It's like calling a QB or a DH "defensive".

Now, boring, doesn't create too many goal opportunities, slow, boring? OK.
 
It is pretty well accepted that Spain's Tiki-Taka is designed to deny the other team possession and thus, chances. By monopolizing possession, Spain is taking the old "the best defense is a good offense" maxim to an extreme end point.
 

Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
Dope
Mar 19, 2004
13,839
Missoula, MT
URI said:
I'm jealous of how you guys became bff so quick. When I tried to be besties with him, he just lashed out.
 
 
He lashed at me too.  He said he didn't read my posts and then my ass rumbled.  So, you know.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
45,086
Zomp said:
 
Which to me means its a defensive style.  Again though, this has been debated before so I can understand both sides.  But to me, their style certainly is defensive.
 
Quite so. He seems to mistaking "style of defense" for having "a defensive style." Having a defensive style is a strategy and I don't think that's really questionable.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
17,601
Rogers Park
ToeKneeArmAss said:
I suspect Bosoxen might not fully agree with this assessment.
 
I get that this is a one-liner, but there are two definitions of flopping, and their conflation really confuses the issue. 
 
The first is straight-up simulation: acting as if you've been fouled when you really haven't. That is total bullshit, and should draw nothing but yellow cards and scorn. 
 
The second is going to ground deliberately when you *have* been fouled, but not violently enough to stop you without your acquiescence. That's what Robben did earlier — he was tripped lightly, and he fell more or less on purpose — and I think that's a key part of the balance of power between attackers and defenders. If this kind of flop didn't win fouls, there'd be nothing stopping the defenders from constantly taking little shots at the attackers. It's not pretty, but it's necessary IMO to discipline the defenders.