World Series 2018--Red Sox vs. Dodgers

ehaz

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Mookie... please get it together. I always thought they’d win in 6, but it’s going to be real tough if the best player with the most ABs can’t unfuck himself from his career postseason insignificance.
 

brandonchristensen

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Bottom line...

Sox are up 2-1. The Dodgers HAD to win that game and it took them 18 innings and a biased umpire to do it.

How many times have we seen the bats go cold for one game and return? I recall the Orioles double header when Betts got steal 30 and XB got RBI 100 in a rout. Then in the night game they got shut down.

It happens.

Eovaldi needs to be put into the position where he doesn’t need to pitch again because the Sox won the next two.
 

StupendousMan

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^ What Red said.

I stayed up to watch the entire game last night and found myself, surprisingly, having a ton of fun at 2 AM. The Sox are playing in the World Series. The players on both sides appear to be enjoying the experience - lots of smiles and cheering and picking each other up. The fans in both cities are standing and cheering and clasping their hands in silent prayer.

I've been tired, sure, and frustrated and saddened at moments -- but even at 2 AM, I am warm, dry, safe, and part of a closeknit community, united for a good cause. When Eovaldi struck out another batter, I would clap silently and take a sip from the glass of bourbon on the table next to me.

Life is pretty damn good.
 

canderson

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The top of the order has to get back ontrack. If they do, good things will happen. If not, it’s a tough road ahead.
 

JimD

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The negativity that I'm reading in this thread this morning is frankly BS. Haven't they shown enough this postseason already not to doubt what they are capable of doing today and the rest of the series?
I'm looking at the ALDS for inspiration - the Sox looked like crap in game 2, the Yankees felt like they had all of the momentum going back home and we know what these Sox did after that.
 

soxhop411

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That ump also needs to be reassigned... what a horribly called game behind the plate



 

chawson

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This is all nitpicking at this point, but...

...does Moreland get a glove on Kinsler's bad throw if he's playing first instead of Vazquez? Vaz reached across his body and missed it by inches (and obviously did what he could do), but Moreland, who sets up more on the RF part of first base, may have been able to knock it down from his positioning alone.

...what would've happened had Eovaldi taken Vazquez's spot in the lineup (8th) when he double-switched into the game in the 12th inning rather than Moreland's? (Leon could have come in either way.) Eovaldi hitting in the 3-hole after Betts and Bogaerts was a obvious rally killer. It may have led to Roberts bringing in Wood or Urias sooner, but Eovaldi ultimately ended up hitting against two righties Moreland could've handled (Floro, Maeda).
 
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djbayko

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Because maybe the scouting time, while finite, still gives them ample time to do so? A team in this position should be mapping out all possibilities or they aren’t doing their job in 2018. Forget about the sudden shift in Evo’s usage. What if Game 3 goes 17 innings and burns through the Sox bullpen? The last pitcher on the roster is no longer off the table.
I got a couple details wrong.
 

joe dokes

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That is not a problem with Erod so much as the entire problem with pitching Evoldi last night.
trying to win is so overrated. computers. blech.


This is where I am. I'm really worried about the hitters - for some reason, they were completely thrown off their game plan last night and generally looked terrible. How easy will it be to clear their heads after such a gut punch and get back to being a patient lineup that hunts pitches?

Kinsler directly cost the team the game not once but twice, but he had a huge assist from Cora thanks to the manager's recklessly aggressive managing that emptied the bench way too soon. Would have been really nice to have a pinch runner to bring in for Nunez in the 13th, who would likely have scored a crucial insurance run had he not been too gimpy to run to Leon's double.
Buehler pitched his ass off. It might have affected them the rest of the night, but unlikely beyond that.
Other subs aside, would Nunez have need the PR if not for the freak accident in the previous half-inning?
Sox bench was empty after the top of the 12th. Leon was the last guy in. Other than Kinsler running for JD I dont see any thing questionable or reckless.
 
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RedOctober3829

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This tweet depicts much of my feelings toward this team.


Cora says guys are lining up at his office to ask to start on the mound tomorrow. Sale, maybe. No decision yet, but Cora says, “it’ll probably be a lefty.”
 

ricopetro6

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trying to win is so overrated. computers. blech.




Buehler pitched his ass off. It might have affected them the rest of the night, but unlikely beyond that.
Other subs aside, would Nunez have need the PR if not for the freak accident in the previous half-inning?
Sox bench was empty after the top of the 12th. Leon was the last guy in. Other than Kinsler running for JD I dont see any thing questionable or reckless.
I can't remember the circumstances surrounding benny's pinch hitting..but wondering if a double switch could have been made there to keep him in the game somehow?
Sox had too many bats used up and out of the game while LA had all their bats in there for the whole game .
 

grimshaw

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Buehler is a stud. I have no interest in seeing him in a potential game 6.

Hill doesn't typically go very deep in games (though better this year than last year) so I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the Dodgers pen by the 5th. I like our pen better at this point with Baez and Jansen a bit spent. Our main guys can still go.

I think this one will be high scoring.
 
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ookami7m

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That ump also needs to be reassigned... what a horribly called game behind the plate



I was trying to stay away from the ump criticizing this morning because I wasn't sure how much of the bad strike zone was in my fuzzy late night memories vs reality. What I remember seeing was an inconsistent zone with strikes on either edge and low being a coin flip as to how they were going to be called. There were a few (the strike 3 to get Mookie late comes to mind) that were fairly egregious and these charts bear this out.

Easily the worst of the strike zones we've seen so far in the post season.
 

joe dokes

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That ump also needs to be reassigned... what a horribly called game behind the plate
I listened to the last 10 innings on radio. My sense was that he got worse as the night went on. Is this stuff sortable that way? 7 hour game....500 pitches. MLB should mandate a change behind the plate at some point.
 

ricopetro6

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I listened to the last 10 innings on radio. My sense was that he got worse as the night went on. Is this stuff sortable that way? 7 hour game....500 pitches. MLB should mandate a change behind the plate at some point.
it seemed like he started bad and was consistently bad the entire game..benefiting LA 80% of the time
 

Red Averages

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The more I reflect on last night's/this morning's game, despite the loss I feel more and more of a sense of pride and appreciation of what we are watching. I was skeptical on their chances coming into the playoffs because they had never had playoff success as a group. I did not know how the bullpen would react under the bright lights because they were scuffling for a while coming into October. There were a lot of question marks.

Well, I couldn't be prouder of what we are witnessing. The all-in approach by Alex Cora is so refreshing in today's game and the fact that the players(pitching staff mostly but everyone is doing it) are buying in and are willing to take the ball whenever the situation presents itself is awe-inspiring. Personally Nathan Eovaldi, David Price, and Rick Porcello have earned so much respect and admiration from me and I'm assuming all Red Sox fans for what they have done so far. It reminds me so much of the guys on the 2004 team. These guys in particular don't even have to be told to put their spikes on. They come to the ballpark ready to go and not worried about pitch count, days of rest, etc. It will be the same today from the rest of the pen. Eovaldi is down? So what. Whoever the starter is plus Barnes/Brasier/Kelly are ready to go and pick up where Eovaldi left off

The negativity that I'm reading in this thread this morning is frankly BS. Haven't they shown enough this postseason already not to doubt what they are capable of doing today and the rest of the series?
This is exactly where I am. Quite frankly, the Red Sox bullpen is in better shape for the next two days having primarily used Eovaldi instead of our top relievers for 2 IP a piece. Plus, the Red Sox are still up 2-1 in this series, the pressure is squarely on LA still. Cora isn't afraid to go for it, and the Red Sox had significantly more chances to win in extras. This was about as must win a game for LAD as it could have been and the Red Sox had win probability over 90% (or thereabouts I'm guessing) in this game multiple times, mostly from Cora's moves.

Here's hoping E-Rod starts tonight with the Dodgers rolling out their RHH lineup.
 
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Red Averages

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Pitching to Puig worked. Other than Kinsler not eating the ball.

Just like Roberts was rightfully blamed in games 1 and 2 for not having his best players out there, Cora didn’t have

Martinez
Pearce
Moreland
Devers
Benintendi

available for the last nine innings last night.

Mad props to Vazquez for his play at first base, having never done that in the bigs before.
Yes..... BUT, replacing these guys was likely the correct move. Pinch Running for JD almost won them the game, except for a great throw on the attempted Sac fly. If that throw is off and Kinsler scores this would have gone down as a great move that won them the game. It didn't work out, but it allowed them to go 1st to 3rd on a single and allowed them the opportunity to try to win on a shallow flyout to center. None of that happens if JD stays in.

Nunez came in for Devers and would have won them the game with his go-ahead RBI. Again another move that if it held you look at and say, wow what a great substitution. As it turns out he hurt his ankle after the sub and wasn't able to score from 1st on the double. Something only the benefit of hindsight can give us, given it occurred after the substitution.
 

Max Power

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You're judging the decisions based on the results. Kinsler makes that play properly -- either by eating the ball or taking the moment to steady himself -- and neither of those "huge mistakes" are mistakes
Even if I said before it happened that he shouldn't have pitched to Puig? There was too much risk of him getting the run home from second versus Barnes to let him hit. Cora is the one who was almost saved him his mistake by having Kinsler make the play. But he didn't and they lost.
 

dhappy42

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It took 18 innings, a dozen bad ball-strike calls, an 0-for-28 performance from the top of the batting order, and Kinsler tripping on soggy turf (WTF? In LA?) for the Dodgers to claw one win from the Red Sox. That, ironically, is an amazingly good thing. Crush them tonight.
 

JMDurron

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So, regarding potential goats for last night, there's been a lot of discussion of all things Ian Kinsler, the Vazquez bunt, the strike zone, etc., and all of those late inning items are legitimate to bring up. I think one set of blunders that had me angry for a solid 2+ hours before any of those things happened is getting off the hook here, and that's the baserunning of the Red Sox in the 3rd inning.

Buehler had a good second inning, but by all rights should have been in deep trouble that inning, due to JBJ's single and Vazquez's "single". JBJ has his worst jump of the entire season at that precise moment, followed by Vazquez failing to take second base on Pederson's misplay of his hit to LF. At an absolute minimum, Porcello's bunt (presumably still occurs) would have moved a runner to 3B (particularly if JBJ), and then Mookie's fly ball would have scored what could have been the decisive, roster-protecting run given what transpired later. I think those two plays are getting off the hook here, they are at least as bad as the Vazquez bunt and Bogaerts' horrific extra inning hitting performance when it comes to having a negative impact on the game. Roberts could have been forced to PH for Buehler in a tie game down 2 games to 0, instead of having a 1-0 lead to play with.

I realize the traps inherent in the "what if" game I'm playing here, but the Porcello bunt and Mookie flying out to medium OF over and over again aren't exactly unreasonable expectations for those PAs, independent of the location of the baserunners at that time in the game. The game never should have gone to extra innings to begin with, and ultimately this early game baserunning miscue (unlike Games 1 and 2) ended up coming back to bite us all in the ass.
 

dhappy42

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Cora has way more info on players and situations so outside of game threads I don’t like second-guessing, but one move from last night still completely baffles me: Swihart pinch hitting for EdRo in the 6th?

Pinch hitting there may be obviously called for, but why Swihart? Cora has kept Swihart in reserve every game, except this one where he could have really been useful in extras as a pinch runner and/or catcher. Or infielder for that matter. I’m not making a hindsight argument. It’s just odd/ironic that Swihart has been super glued to the bench *just in case* a game goes into extra innings, then Cora pinch hits him in a no-leverage situation in the one game that actually does.
 

McBride11

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I think the better question is: if you have to get up for work/school the next morning, how many games have ended at a reasonable time - say, resulting in at least 7 hours of sleep?

For east coast fans, not so many.

For the Sox, these are the ending times (from B-ref):
WS3 - 3:30 am *fri night
WS2 - 11:21
WS1 - 12:09
ALCS5 - 11:39
ALCS4 - 1:09am
ALCS3 - 9:01
ALCS2 - 10:51
ALCS1 - 12:12 *sat night
ALDS4 - 11:35
ALDS3 - 11:21
ALDS2 - 11:36 *sat night
ALDS1 - 11:13 *fri night

That's a grand total of one post season game young Sox fans could see live. Even on the weekend nights, 11:30 isn't always the best for kids - but such would only boost the total to three games.

.
Just gonna go ahead and update this list for posterity. Gonna go out on a limb and say no young fans on either coast saw the end of this one.
 

JimD

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Enough with the endless griping about time of game - shitty umpiring trumps everything else as Manfred's job 1 to fix this offseason.
 

pk1627

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^ What Red said.

I stayed up to watch the entire game last night and found myself, surprisingly, having a ton of fun at 2 AM. The Sox are playing in the World Series. The players on both sides appear to be enjoying the experience - lots of smiles and cheering and picking each other up. The fans in both cities are standing and cheering and clasping their hands in silent prayer.

I've been tired, sure, and frustrated and saddened at moments -- but even at 2 AM, I am warm, dry, safe, and part of a closeknit community, united for a good cause. When Eovaldi struck out another batter, I would clap silently and take a sip from the glass of bourbon on the table next to me.

Life is pretty damn good.
Agreed. If you stayed up to watch the entire thing, fear and frustration were left in the dust. What you saw was Eovaldi being a warrior, and players on both sides giving it everything.
 

reggiecleveland

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cora had no choice at that point..it was Eovaldi or Pom....Sox hitters didn't get it done.
I respect that Cora went for it with his moves at h end of the 9 inning game. It almost worked. But he was sitting in the catbird seat, and used up his best pitcher.

He had a lineup with Leonne, Vazquez (at 1b), Kinsler, Nunez, and a pitcher. He took his shot and lost. Evoldi's performance backed by a full lineup would be tough to beat. If they get lucky with Pom then up 3-0, if not the best guy they have goes today.
 

bigyazbread

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Cora has way more info on players and situations so outside of game threads I don’t like second-guessing, but one move from last night still completely baffles me: Swihart pinch hitting for EdRo in the 6th?

Pinch hitting there may be obviously called for, but why Swihart? Cora has kept Swihart in reserve every game, except this one where he could have really been useful in extras as a pinch runner and/or catcher. Or infielder for that matter. I’m not making a hindsight argument. It’s just odd/ironic that Swihart has been super glued to the bench *just in case* a game goes into extra innings, then Cora pinch hits him in a no-leverage situation in the one game that actually does.
I actually thought that barring a double switch with Bradley/Benintendi when EdRo comes into the game (but somewhat understandable if AC keeping options open for game 4 starter), that Swihart was EXACTLY the right guy to PH in the 6th inning. You have one out, no one on against a righty that is dealing...

Your bench choices are:
Swihart (switch hitter, low leverage situation)
Leon (better catcher than hitter)
Pearce (lefty killer, no one on base)
Kinsler (righty on righty, but my second choice)
Nunez (similar to Kinsler...but leverage way too low)
Benintendi (too low leverage to use in this situation)

If Vazquez had reached base, much different choice..I would have sent up Benintendi, but would have had no beef with Nunez, Pearce or Kinsler.

Swihart's value as a pinch-runner is muted by Kinsler; his versatility is also muted by Holt in the game and Nunez and Leon still on the bench.
 

dynomite

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^ What Red said.

I stayed up to watch the entire game last night and found myself, surprisingly, having a ton of fun at 2 AM. The Sox are playing in the World Series. The players on both sides appear to be enjoying the experience - lots of smiles and cheering and picking each other up. The fans in both cities are standing and cheering and clasping their hands in silent prayer.

I've been tired, sure, and frustrated and saddened at moments -- but even at 2 AM, I am warm, dry, safe, and part of a closeknit community, united for a good cause. When Eovaldi struck out another batter, I would clap silently and take a sip from the glass of bourbon on the table next to me.

Life is pretty damn good.
Completely agreed. If you can’t have fun when — after three championships in 15 years — the Red Sox are in the longest World Series game of all time and getting heroic pitching from Eovaldi, I don’t know what to say.

This is one of the reasons to watch sports and follow a team, so that one day you might be able to watch them in a game and a series like this.
 

kanga12

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Any news/updates on injuries or status of Xander, Nunez, Moreland, etc.? My biggest concern from the marathon game last night/this morning is how these guys bounce back or recover physically...Xander definitely seemed like he was grimacing at some of his at-bats...
 

Todd Benzinger

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Blaming Cora for PR'ing Kinsler for JDM makes no sense to me. JD has been quoted saying his ankle is actually sprained. He has to play LF to be in the lineup for the next two. I won't be surprised at all if he starts tonight on the bench as is.

Having JD on first with no outs when his run would be the potential game winner would be managerial malpractice. And the PR move worked--it forced Bellinger to make a perfect throw. If the flyout was a bit longer or the throw a hair off line, Sox win, and Cora's "pushing all the right buttons." If Cora DOESN'T PR for JD, and JD a)really messes up his ankle (or even b), gets gunned down by 10 feet at 3rd), everyone's claiming that Cora is a disaster for not PR'ing there.

Leaving Evo in was shocking--but it was smart. It kept them in the game til the eighteenth, and even for tonight, it means that the Sox BP is LESS overtaxed than LA's. The worst part was watching Evo "bat" in 3 times, but what can ya do.
 

santadevil

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^ What Red said.

I stayed up to watch the entire game last night and found myself, surprisingly, having a ton of fun at 2 AM. The Sox are playing in the World Series. The players on both sides appear to be enjoying the experience - lots of smiles and cheering and picking each other up. The fans in both cities are standing and cheering and clasping their hands in silent prayer.

I've been tired, sure, and frustrated and saddened at moments -- but even at 2 AM, I am warm, dry, safe, and part of a closeknit community, united for a good cause. When Eovaldi struck out another batter, I would clap silently and take a sip from the glass of bourbon on the table next to me.

Life is pretty damn good.
This is where I'm at. In the moment, the bad plays can be frustrating, but the Red Sox are in the World Series.

Life is good
 

Al Zarilla

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Blaming Cora for PR'ing Kinsler for JDM makes no sense to me. JD has been quoted saying his ankle is actually sprained. He has to play LF to be in the lineup for the next two. I won't be surprised at all if he starts tonight on the bench as is.

Having JD on first with no outs when his run would be the potential game winner would be managerial malpractice. And the PR move worked--it forced Bellinger to make a perfect throw. If the flyout was a bit longer or the throw a hair off line, Sox win, and Cora's "pushing all the right buttons." If Cora DOESN'T PR for JD, and JD a)really messes up his ankle (or even b), gets gunned down by 10 feet at 3rd), everyone's claiming that Cora is a disaster for not PR'ing there.

Leaving Evo in was shocking--but it was smart. It kept them in the game til the eighteenth, and even for tonight, it means that the Sox BP is LESS overtaxed than LA's. The worst part was watching Evo "bat" in 3 times, but what can ya do.
Evo was great but the problem was it's harder to win an extra inning game on the road than at home. Every inning he finished up, you knew that even if the Red Sox scored in the next top half, he or somebody else had to close out the bottom half. Or, if the Red Sox don't score, the Dodgers have two upcoming chances to our one. I'm not sure how many managers use their hottest pitcher like that.
 

jasvlm

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Completely agreed. If you can’t have fun when — after three championships in 15 years — the Red Sox are in the longest World Series game of all time and getting heroic pitching from Eovaldi, I don’t know what to say.

This is one of the reasons to watch sports and follow a team, so that one day you might be able to watch them in a game and a series like this.
I have lurked for the past few seasons, but I had to log in to comment about these proceedings. Last night was a showcase for what it means for athletes to compete when the stakes are as high as can be. It was beautiful to witness, and even though there were sloppy plays and long stretches of inactivity on the bases, seeing Buehler, Bradley, Kimbrel, and especially Eovaldi leave their guts on the field was unforgettable. I lament the Kinsler misplay and the toothless lineup the Red Sox featured over the last 5 innings as much as those of you who have already chronicled those facts. When they took the lead on the Nunez dribbler, I was convinced that the series was over. It was not to be, but the Red Sox have played incredibly exciting, appealing baseball, leading each of us into several late evenings with smiles on our faces and contentedness in our hearts. Cora has been a revelation as a rookie manager, and would appear to be in a favorable position to lead this franchise moving forward. Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Devers and Bradley are home grown products who form the core of a young, likable group. It has been a joy to watch this team over the past several seasons, and despite the farm system's shortcomings, the next few years should feature a team in a position to be in the playoffs and competing for the title.

I just wanted to echo the sentiments of Stupendous Man. This team is a gift, and it has been a beautiful part of my life to witness their success this season and into the playoffs. Of course I want them to bring the title back to Boston, and I'll be in various stages of apoplexy during the ebbs and flows of the games the next few nights. I will also savor every minute of the ride, because these opportunities aren't easy to come by, and life is too short to linger on the negatives. This is a special team, historically great by any standard of measure. A World Series title would be a well deserved coronation for the players, Cora, Dombrowski and the entire franchise, and obviously for the city and the entire region. This community is home to some of the most devoted Red Sox supporters in the world, and I've learned quite a bit by lurking and enjoying the posts here over the past several years.

I truly hope the Red Sox win the World Series, but having the chance to share this season, and to experience this playoff run and World Series with my family and friends (and this extended community of fans) is a wonderful thing, and I want to insure I'm on record to say as much. It is for journeys like this one that we endure as Red Sox fans.
 

Byrdbrain

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Blaming Cora for PR'ing Kinsler for JDM makes no sense to me. JD has been quoted saying his ankle is actually sprained. He has to play LF to be in the lineup for the next two. I won't be surprised at all if he starts tonight on the bench as is.

Having JD on first with no outs when his run would be the potential game winner would be managerial malpractice. And the PR move worked--it forced Bellinger to make a perfect throw. If the flyout was a bit longer or the throw a hair off line, Sox win, and Cora's "pushing all the right buttons." If Cora DOESN'T PR for JD, and JD a)really messes up his ankle (or even b), gets gunned down by 10 feet at 3rd), everyone's claiming that Cora is a disaster for not PR'ing there.

Leaving Evo in was shocking--but it was smart. It kept them in the game til the eighteenth, and even for tonight, it means that the Sox BP is LESS overtaxed than LA's. The worst part was watching Evo "bat" in 3 times, but what can ya do.
It is certainly possible that JDM needed to come out it was a long game and he was playing the field, I noted that in my post.
My comment was that I generally disagree with those moves, yes in this case it almost worked(which I also pointed out) but I doubt that if he hadn't been pinch run for in that case people would have been screaming about it.

I'm 100% not "blaming Cora for PRing Kinsler", I just brought it up as a discussion point.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If the game began at 4:00 EST, most young fans still would have not seen the end of this one.
1. How do you plan in advance for a 7+ hour World Series game?

2. The networks who pay for the rights to these games set the schedule based on how to best maximize eyeballs/ratings. They don't really care if 14-year old Johnny gets to see the game.
 

santadevil

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1. How do you plan in advance for a 7+ hour World Series game?

2. The networks who pay for the rights to these games set the schedule based on how to best maximize eyeballs/ratings. They don't really care if 14-year old Johnny gets to see the game.
I don't think that was the intent of Sack's post. Just pointing out that fact that McdBride updating the list doesn't really matter for that game.

It also throws a wrench in his representives , who presumably arranged this "event", marketing plans based on Mookie's wholesome image.
This is a little to conspiracy-like to me. Can't the guy just do a good thing without there being some other intent behind it?
Shockingly enough, there are good people around, that do good things, not trying to get attention or anything else from it. Just happens to get attention when the best player on the planet was doing it, so it ended up being higher profile
 

JCizzle

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I don't think that was the intent of Sack's post. Just pointing out that fact that McdBride updating the list doesn't really matter for that game.



This is a little to conspiracy-like to me. Can't the guy just do a good thing without there being some other intent behind it?
Shockingly enough, there are good people around, that do good things, not trying to get attention or anything else from it. Just happens to get attention when the best player on the planet was doing it, so it ended up being higher profile
Yeah, I think if it was leaked for PR, you'd at least want a picture of Mookie dropping off the food himself instead of some random tweet from Lou Merloni.