Wyc ownership group planning to make Celtics available for sale

Kliq

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Zero interest in the Celtics being used as a sportswashing enterprise. Fuck outta here with that.
 

InstaFace

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What are the restrictions on letting those new minority owners take governance positions? That seems like the big carrot that needs to be offered.
NBA rules say 20% max investment, per the above. That alone is a change from not being allowed at all as of a few years ago. But once the camel's nose is under the tent, so to speak, I imagine they'll have a voice to try and get those rules changed.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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What are the restrictions on letting those new minority owners take governance positions? That seems like the big carrot that needs to be offered.
I don't know but the article notes that they are limited to a 20% stake. It also notes the C's lost money and don't own their own arena and that this investor base doesn't like passive stakes. So the type and how much control the stake has is likely a factor.
 

lovegtm

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Right, I'm wondering whether Wyc would be dangling the possibility of strong say on operations/governance, which is probably doable even with the 20% stake restriction.
 

benhogan

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The only thing more fungible than a Beef5 is CASH. If a Middle East buyer wants to pay up, we have to live with it (Newcastle United fans kind of embraced it). Not sure who came up with the term sports washing, but Middle Eastern products (oil & plastics) + Capital are everywhere.

Silver is sticking the two past Champs there in the pre-season & sold CUP naming rights to Emirates. The NBA is making a push for many different regional entities (PIF isn't alone) to invest before they develop their version of LIV hoops.
 

Kliq

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Oh god Ben Hogan lecturing me on sports washing and telling me to suck it up. Shoot me directly into the sun, please, if this is our future.
 

benhogan

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Oh god Ben Hogan lecturing me on sports washing and telling me to suck it up. Shoot me directly into the sun, please, if this is our future.
Here are your options;
(A) Email the NBA Complaints Dept
(B) Take pictures of yourself, wrapped in the Stars-n-Stripes, protesting the local gas station & take it to Instagram!
(C) Call Jay Monahan and strategize
(D) Acceptance
 

Van Everyman

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No Middle East owners please
That's not fair. Shad Khan is Pakistani and while his team is terrible, his ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

OTOH, for all the bruhaha about professional sports getting in bed with betters, I'm way more worried about their relationship with authoritarian governments. To me, that's a horrible trend I'd prefer our local teams resist.
 

Ale Xander

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That's not fair. Shad Khan is Pakistani and while his team is terrible, his ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

OTOH, for all the bruhaha about professional sports getting in bed with betters, I'm way more worried about their relationship with authoritarian governments. To me, that's a horrible trend I'd prefer our local teams resist.
Yeah I am not including Pakistan//India etc. mainly Saudi Arabia/Iran/Qatar and other sports washing. Sovereign Wealth funds from non-democratic states etc.
 

JCizzle

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That's not fair. Shad Khan is Pakistani and while his team is terrible, his ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

OTOH, for all the bruhaha about professional sports getting in bed with betters, I'm way more worried about their relationship with authoritarian governments. To me, that's a horrible trend I'd prefer our local teams resist.
Curious- how do the EPL everyday fans deal with it? Does everyone want that Man City money and pedigree?
 

Royal Reader

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Curious- how do the EPL everyday fans deal with it? Does everyone want that Man City money and pedigree?
Long story short is that everyone (in England) despises City for it. Maybe 20% of those would stop following their own teams for moral reasons if their own team was taken over (I have a Newcastle supporting friend who did that). The remainder would be super excited by the potential success, and demand that everyone else "Keep politics out of sport." International fans would largely not care at all unless the owner's country was at war with their own.

Ed: though now I think about it 90% of the hatred of City and their owners is the idea that they did the equivalent of secretly spending beyond the salary cap rather than anything human rights related.
 

Ale Xander

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Is this because of the large contacts, or lacking ownership of an arena, or just stupidity?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is this because of the large contacts, or lacking ownership of an arena, or just stupidity?
Arena ownership is huge for valuations as it puts a ceiling on revenue and potential revenue growth. The contracts, W/L records, etc are mostly noise when looking at a valuation and/or purchase price. What it more important is the revenue opportunities down the road.
 

LA_33

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Yeah the Celts and Lakers are the only two NBA teams valued in the top 10 that don't own their own arenas.
I think for these purposes, Knicks don’t technically own MSG, either, although it’s all controlled by Dolan, so that’s a technicality, not the reality.

Either way, the Nets owning that brand new building, in a prime location on Brooklyn, is a huge driver of them being top-5. That arena s insanely valuable.
 

jose melendez

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That's not fair. Shad Khan is Pakistani and while his team is terrible, his ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

OTOH, for all the bruhaha about professional sports getting in bed with betters, I'm way more worried about their relationship with authoritarian governments. To me, that's a horrible trend I'd prefer our local teams resist.
I mean, he's an American isn't he?
 

bankshot1

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Maybe the 2-step sales process allows for FSG w/LeBron a window, or maybe he could gift his (1%) stake in FSG to Bronny to bypass the conflict of interest, as Bronny isn't an NBA player.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Please no. FSG and its private equity skinflints are ready running one Boston sports franchise like a theme park. We don't need them to create another curated, sports experience out of what was once a competitive endeavor.
 

InstaFace

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I really don’t see how that would be possible unless LeBron divests from FSG. An active player can’t own part of another team.
There are so many ways to square that, that it doesn't merit a worry. If they want to, they can. Off the top of my head:

(1) FSG partners create a new corporate vehicle for ownership of the Celtics that is not owned directly by FSG's parent corp. They'd probably have a complex ownership-vehicle structure anyway, to run profits through tax havens and such. But this one, FSG partners and LPs can buy into or not, and Lebron isn't invited. So they raise new capital for it that doesn't include him. He still owns his share of their stake in everything else.

(2) Lebron sells, or gives, his FSG stake to his wife. Maybe the league approves that. Maybe he's got to give it to someone else, or put it in a trust that he can't touch until he's been retired for X years. But he disposes of it in a way that satisfies the league that he has no conflict of interest. He'll have to do that if he wants to become a majority owner of a franchise after retirement anyway, so who cares, will be done sooner or later.

There are so, so many ways for them to make this happen if they want to. And if they're the top bid.

Good luck, Pags.
 

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There are so many ways to square that, that it doesn't merit a worry. If they want to, they can. Off the top of my head:

(1) FSG partners create a new corporate vehicle for ownership of the Celtics that is not owned directly by FSG's parent corp. They'd probably have a complex ownership-vehicle structure anyway, to run profits through tax havens and such. But this one, FSG partners and LPs can buy into or not, and Lebron isn't invited. So they raise new capital for it that doesn't include him. He still owns his share of their stake in everything else.

(2) Lebron sells, or gives, his FSG stake to his wife. Maybe the league approves that. Maybe he's got to give it to someone else, or put it in a trust that he can't touch until he's been retired for X years. But he disposes of it in a way that satisfies the league that he has no conflict of interest. He'll have to do that if he wants to become a majority owner of a franchise after retirement anyway, so who cares, will be done sooner or later.

There are so, so many ways for them to make this happen if they want to. And if they're the top bid.

Good luck, Pags.
Considering their bids on top players, I expect them to be in the mix but eventually lose to a higher bidder.

Keep in mind that they tried to buy the Bruins and the Garden and didn’t come up with a number that even made Charlie Jacobs think about it.
 

bankshot1

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Please no. FSG and its private equity skinflints are ready running one Boston sports franchise like a theme park. We don't need them to create another curated, sports experience out of what was once a competitive endeavor.
The guys who gave you Wally the Green Monster and Sweet Caroline could turn Lucky the Leprechaun's broad appeal and marketing power into a pot of gold to charm fans of all ages!!!
 

bloodysox

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Please no. FSG and its private equity skinflints are ready running one Boston sports franchise like a theme park. We don't need them to create another curated, sports experience out of what was once a competitive endeavor.
Amen. I'm so sick of this shit.

Now we know why the Red Sox have been cheaping out for years, so they can go and buy the Celtics and then prematurely dismantle the dynasty. We have a 2010s Warriors esque young core and if Henry messes that up I'll probably never get over it lol

Does anyone actually think that John Henry is going to be willing to foot the Celtics upcoming luxury tax bill? If Henry buys the Celtics then Tatum will probably end up on the Lakers and Jaylen will probably be gone too.

First private equity ruined the housing market and turned an entire generation into renters and now they have their eyes set on ruining sports. Private equity is ruining America and the next 4 years of Trump is only going to accelerate that.

Unfortunately orgs like FSG have calculated that it's more profitable to run a mediocre team for cheap than it is to run a great team at a high price. They know that no matter what they'll draw a certain number of fans because of Fenway's historic allure (and a die hard fanbase combined with the lack of summer sports) and they don't care if Fenway is packed with Yankee fans because they get paid either way.
 

Ale Xander

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The guys who gave you Wally the Green Monster and Sweet Caroline could turn Lucky the Leprechaun's broad appeal and marketing power into a pot of gold to charm fans of all ages!!!
They will add seating on the Zakim and sell them for thousands
 

bankshot1

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The Celts have survived worse owners than the guys who reversed the curse and won 4 championships in the past 20 years. And who has a local guy with a sense of history and some power in the highest FSG circles and is not a dummy.

I'm not sure its good business to pay $6B for an iconic franchise and bleed it into the ground.
 

luckiestman

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Red Sox and Liverpool have done well being owned by FSG, how big of a potential problem is this?
 

Salem's Lot

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The Celts have survived worse owners than the guys who reversed the curse and won 4 championships. And who has a local guy with some power in the highest FSG circles and is not a dummy.

I'm not sure its good business to pay $6B for an iconic franchise and bleed it into the ground.
Honestly it’s probably going to be some private equity group that buys this and every other team eventually.
 

lexrageorge

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Considering their bids on top players, I expect them to be in the mix but eventually lose to a higher bidder.
Comment should be pinned and awarded a Tommy Point!

Keep in mind that they tried to buy the Bruins and the Garden and didn’t come up with a number that even made Charlie Jacobs think about it.
I'll give them some benefit of the doubt there, given the inability of the NHL to get out of its own way.
 

Salem's Lot

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Comment should be pinned and awarded a Tommy Point!


I'll give them some benefit of the doubt there, given the inability of the NHL to get out of its own way.
I mean they went and bought the Penguins right after they couldn’t buy the Bruins. So they probably have a more favorable financial outlook for NHL than other people do.

And I can guarantee that if Jeremy Jacobs dies tomorrow, and the Jacobs kids decide to move the team and the real estate, FSG will be the first ones in line, and would probably get it due to their current relationship with the league (of course the Penguins being sold would be part of the deal). And honestly, I’d welcome it as a Bruins fan.

They generally put people in charge that know what they are doing, and I think they’d actually commit to rebuilding which the team currently refuses to do.
 

bankshot1

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Its going to annoy the piss out of some folks when Bezos or Musk buys the Celts with mad money and the games will only be available with Prime membership or X+
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Awhile ago I spoke to someone directly involved in the sale, Pagliuca desperately wants majority ownership (obvious) but his financials would not allow for the Celtics to operate above the apron indefinitely. Within about a year of purchase, the current squad would need to be dismantled/salary significantly cut. Essentially, if you pay $5 Billion for the club, there is no business model that works for the club paying this level of luxury tax

Wyc doesn’t want to see that even though he has a preference to sell to Pags (remember his odd request to stay on as Governor post-sale for a bit?). His father wants the best deal.

For the Celtics to continue with the level of spend we’re seeing now, it would need to be purchased by someone better capitalized, like Bezos, where the financial model doesn’t matter (like the Dodgers). Wyc doesn’t want to do that over Pags but they may have no choice for the best of the club and his father’s wishes. At the end, he’s who matters anyway.

I’m sure Pags is doing everything he can by bringing more investors but therein lies the problem: You have to make money eventually for them. The window for Tatum and Brown should not allow for that for another 6-8 years, absent a tanking year/roster reset.

FSG wasn’t mentioned during this discussion but I see them as more on the Pags spectrum of this. They should not be the first or second preference for fans. They too, will look to make money in the short term for their investors, which will mean payroll reductions.

And if that happens, does Brad Stevens stick around? This sale undoubtedly will be taking this club in new directions, possibly sooner than we had all imagined.
 

InstaFace

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...which raises the question: who the hell is Savage Sports, and why would they have a scoop that says otherwise?

They appear to be a boston-centric sports blog with a tiny podcast, and they have since claimed they relied on "an aggregator" (but then link to NBCSports, which is clearly not an aggregator), and "didn't proofread":

View: https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1881379530264203661
 

Jimbodandy

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Please no. FSG and its private equity skinflints are ready running one Boston sports franchise like a theme park. We don't need them to create another curated, sports experience out of what was once a competitive endeavor.
Preach

The Mookie trade destroyed any reasonable discussion of FSG for a bunch of the fan base.
Horseshit. I don't care about the Mookie trade. I find the obsession among those who do humorous. But being top 5 in revenue and 13ish in payroll the last few years is Harry era Jeremy Jacobs milking of the cash cow. It stinks and it sucks, and I'd hate to see them do it to the Celtics too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Preach



Horseshit. I don't care about the Mookie trade. I find the obsession among those who do humorous. But being top 5 in revenue and 13ish in payroll the last few years is Harry era Jeremy Jacobs milking of the cash cow. It stinks and it sucks, and I'd hate to see them do it to the Celtics too.
But they have a really elaborate plan to be competitive in a season or two that will be revealed when they are ready.

I don't care about individual transactions either. We have six years of data from which to operate as well as the Fenway Experience BS. If people want to ignore what is happening in front of their eyes because it ruins the illusion fine but we can talk about it.

FSG is trying to earn returns for its investors (their prerogative) and it appears they are trying to maximize them at present. What this means is that they will most likely avoid operating their teams at a loss to win, or at least not sustainably. Fans who like rooting for competitive teams will struggle with that and its ok to discuss it.
 

Jimbodandy

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But they have a really elaborate plan to be competitive in a season or two that will be revealed when they are ready.

I don't care about individual transactions either. We have six years of data from which to operate as well as the Fenway Experience BS. If people want to ignore what is happening in front of their eyes because it ruins the illusion fine but we can talk about it.

FSG is trying to earn returns for its investors (their prerogative) and it appears they are trying to maximize them at present. What this means is that they will most likely avoid operating their teams at a loss to win, or at least not sustainably. Fans who like rooting for competitive teams will struggle with that and its ok to discuss it.
Agreed.

I will add that I 100% understand those who treat Henry et al. like they have a lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card for 2004 and subsequent flags. Honestly they've earned it. If they choose to milk the cow after 20ish years of excellence, seems fair.

That said, let's call it what it is, shall we? We have the right to complain that they stopped spending commensurate with revenue and to not want that for our other beloved franchises. But it's not like they've been shitty owners in toto of course.
 

Salem's Lot

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All that I’m saying is that any group that buys the Celtics (or any other team) are probably going to be in it to make as much money as possible. That’s business in every industry in 2025. It could be worse than a group that won four World Series with the Red Sox, and is currently in position to win the Premier league with another one of their franchises.