Yoenis Cespedes: Is the honeymoon over?

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
Obviously there is lots of risk with an extension too but you don't get many chances to sign Top 15-20 pitchers long-term at market or market-friendly rates at age 27.

 
Is Latos a top 15-20 pitcher, though? Depends on what metric you use.
 
Among 182 qualifying starters over his five full seasons in the majors:
SIERA: 29th
FIP-: 30th
xFIP-: 42nd
ERA-: 35th
 
It's true he's been 19th in fWAR, but that's partly because he's been pitching for all five of those years, and not everybody else on the list has been. His fWAR rank season by season has been:
 
2014: did not qualify
2013: 14th
2012: 32nd
2011: 38th
2010: 25th
 
So he's been a top-15 pitcher exactly once. Most of the time, by most measures, he's a tier-two guy, somewhere in the 20-to-40 range.

 

[TomRicardo]

Who the hell is Cirgani? Perhaps you could, like, look up how to spell his name instead of being a condescending prick?

Are you talking about Tony Cingrani, he of the 79 ERA+ last year, are you? Because the drop off from him to Latos seems pretty severe, to me. At least as large as the potential drop off form Cespedes to Hunter (or Rasmus, or Markakis, or Rios, or whomever).

Furthermore, both Cingrani and Homer Bailey are coming off injury. Alfredo Simon is 34 years old, and his relatively good season looks like a fluke. I suspect the best Reds rotation looks something like Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani. That doesn't look like incredible depth to me, and it's probably also not a contender...which is why, I think, if they are looking to move any of their pitchers they'll be looking for more than a one year rental.

 
Rudy you did not know any of that before I wrote that.
 
Thank you for finally doing any research.  
 
Now please look a little bit more into Cingrani.  Maybe his rookie season, minor league, and his projections?  Maybe there was something going on last year?  I believe you can find it.
 
Also might want to look and see who Robert Stephenson is.
 
The Reds problem was not their rotation or especially not their depth.  They need bats.  Not the Torii Hunter, bargain bin kind.  They cannot commit to a long term contract because they already have Votto, Philips, and Bailey and they are looking to lock up one of Latos or Cueto.
 
The problem is you have no idea of the situation because you never bother to look up anything.  You ignore everything written in the thread then just continue to repeat the same uninformed opinion.  Now if you said they would be better off trying to use Stephenson to get a bat, that is a valid argument looking at their situation.  Of course the counter is that they are trying to save money and have problems with Chapman and Leake getting closer to free agency, and they rather not trade away a cost controlled player.
 
But just saying Latos for Cespedes would not be done with no context is a waste.  You have no clue why that would make sense and you had no context of their roster composition or their contract situation.

 

[Van Everyman]

Cespedes is tearing this board apart. No wonder the coaches hate him.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
Is Latos a top 15-20 pitcher, though? Depends on what metric you use.
 
Among 182 qualifying starters over his five full seasons in the majors:
SIERA: 29th
FIP-: 30th
xFIP-: 42nd
ERA-: 35th
 
It's true he's been 19th in fWAR, but that's partly because he's been pitching for all five of those years, and not everybody else on the list has been. His fWAR rank season by season has been:
 
2014: did not qualify
2013: 14th
2012: 32nd
2011: 38th
2010: 25th
 
So he's been a top-15 pitcher exactly once. Most of the time, by most measures, he's a tier-two guy, somewhere in the 20-to-40 range.

 
Points well taken.  He might (or might not) grow into a Top 20 guy given his age but you're absolutely right that the track record is more tier two.
 
I wonder what kind of money he would need to sign an extension for 5-6 more years.  The best comp I can come up with is Matt Cain's 5/112.5 extension that he signed in 2012 going into his age 27 season.

 

[jimbobim]

Cespedes is tearing this board apart. No wonder the coaches hate him.

i chuckled +1000.
 
A lot of very solid research been done by the posters above. The ceiling on Latos is subjectively and ideally probably a 2 with a tendency to be a real solid 3 ( essentially what Lackey was this year ?). I've made my opinion on Cespedes known before. I'd try to sign him to maybe a 80ish over 5 year deal. If he and Jay Z aren't interested and that becomes a certainty then Cespedes becomes even harder to value/trade as a slugger only controlled for one year. Severely, limits the number of interested teams or the return one would think.  I'm curious to see if Cespedes's OBP weakness  is going to cost him as much as it being a strength made Choo a metric ton of money. 

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

While I think a lot of this is overblown, I still can't help but look at teams who might have an opening or obvious upgrade opportunity in (very specifically) left field other than just the Reds, who've been pretty well discussed at this point. Note that I am doing this with no consideration of the return.
 
Detroit - They might lose Hunter, and while they probably need a CF even more, they could move JD Martinez to right easily enough to accommodate Cespedes's LF demands.
Seattle - A Cespedes-Jackson-Saunders outfield looks decent to me, and with Ackley still around as the deluxe fourth outfielder. Bonus points: were linked to him last year, have a history with Jay Z's agency.
Houston - I'm going to call this one "unlikely" but he'd be a solid upgrade for them if they're interested in trying to advance their timetable.
Mets - This seems like the best shot at a win-win deal for me. Did you know they finished tied for second last year? And that the Nats and Braves may well take a step back next year?
Reds - Read the thread.
San Francisco - Morse is a free agent, but I'm not sure this would be their style.
 
Of those, as I've said, the Mets and Mariners seem like the most logical choices, and I guess one can never rule out Detroit doing something proactive. My guess is that he stays, though, at least until next July. 

 

[lxt]

If I'm going to trade Cespedes to the Reds than I want either Chapman or Cueto. It will cost about the same as Latos for Chapman and Cueto would be a significant higher price but I think either one of those two would make trading Cespedes worthwhile. Otherwise, leave him with the team and see how things turn out. If they go "south" then trade him at the deadline.

 

[twothousandone]

So, a slightly different option might be for Cincinnati to add in Sean Marshall, who is owed $6.5M next year, a steep price for a guy who has been injured much of the past two seasons.  The Sox would send back someone cheaper and cost-controlled.  Would Workman be enough?  I think they'd want a cheap pitcher with upside who can contribute in 2015.   Maybe they'd want a lefty who could potentially replace Marshall in the pen now and move into a starting role later.  Johnson or Escobar?

That's creative thinking -- even if it's a "bad deal" it's a way to get something they want(if Latos is what they want)

But, if Latos requires Cespedes +, what comes back for just Cespedes?
Leake?

 

[chrisfont9]

Of those, as I've said, the Mets and Mariners seem like the most logical choices, and I guess one can never rule out Detroit doing something proactive. My guess is that he stays, though, at least until next July. 

Mariners make the most sense IMHO. They will absolutely be in win-now mode. And Jack Z is not afraid to make a questionable deal that moves the talk radio needle, as this would. 

 

[ehaz]

STEAMER 2015 WAR projections for Latos is 1.2 WAR.
 
Funny enough STEAMER has Clay Buchholz, Joe Kelly, Brandon Workman and Rubby de la Rosa with higher projections.  
 
I'm not sure if thats an indictment of STEAMER's projections, WAR as a measure, or Matt Latos, but its enough to give me pause on sending Cespedes and Margot.

 
STEAMER's projections also have Latos' FIP ballooning to 4.34 next year, considering he hasn't pitched that badly since his rookie, age 21 season tells me something is off. 
 
2009: 4.72
2010: 3.00
2011: 3.16
2012: 3.85
2013: 3.10
2014: 3.65
 
Latos pitched between two injuries, a torn meniscus from spring training that required surgery and a bone bruise in his elbow towards the end of the season.  After he hurt his elbow and was shut down in September, the Reds organization said that they expected him to be perfectly fine in spring training.  I'm guessing that the STEAMER projections are pessimistic due to his drastically lower K/9 (6.5 2014 vs 8.2 career).  It's easy to see why - his fastball velocity diminished by nearly 2 mph.  All this points to a pitcher playing hurt.  
 
It makes sense that the Reds would rush Latos back when they were still sort of in contention, despite a bad K rate, he still managed to post 1.5 fWAR in only 100 innings in one of his worst seasons.  I guess it just depends on the medicals - all signs point to these being minor, isolated injuries.  I'd wager that Latos is his typical self: a 3 - 4.5fWAR pitcher next season.

 

[IpswichSox]

WEEI Full Count blog:

Red Sox manager John Farrell, in an interview on SiriusXMs MLB Network Radio, made clear his displeasure with a New York Daily News report that cited a Red Sox insider in suggesting that all the members of the Red Sox coaching staff hate Cespedes.

Totally surprised and completely off-guard, Farrell told the station of his reaction to the report. Its unfortunate that a comment like that is made from elsewhere. We had two full months with Yoenis. I think you get a pretty good feel for a player or a person when youre around them every day for the length of time in a given day that we are. We know him to be one thing, and that is a guy that works well. He became a very good and strong performer in the middle of our lineup. Were happy hes here. Were certainly looking forward to building a lineup with him in the middle of it next year. Completely unfounded and kind of a shame that someone would write something like that because we see him and from what we know of him is completely 180 degrees from what was written.

 

[reggiecleveland]

I applaud Farrell for not making the 360 degree error.

 

[MakMan44]

That's creative thinking -- even if it's a "bad deal" it's a way to get something they want(if Latos is what they want)

But, if Latos requires Cespedes +, what comes back for just Cespedes?
Leake?

I was looking at Leake's numbers earlier. He's not a bad pitcher, but I think I would rather they keep Cespedes. I have a hard time picturing Leake replicating his value in the AL East. 

 

[CaskNFappin]

A vast majority of this board seems almost giddy over packing Cespedes' bags. Which would make sense if this was 2003, and the league was brimming with guys who profile as middle of the order threats. <br />
<br />
Also sounds like some combination of our 2nd and 3rd tier prospects will have other GMs falling all over each other trying to unload their best pitchers.

 

[williams_482]

 
You are correct about raw FIP and xFIP. Now it's my turn to point at something we shouldn't do. Comparing pitcher and positional player WAR is tricky business and I don't think we can confidently state that the difference between Cespedes and Latos is in the neighborhood of a half a win. 

Could you clarify why we shouldn't do that? I admit I have not heard a reason for that beyond "It feels wrong," but I assume you have something more substantial. 
 

A vast majority of this board seems almost giddy over packing Cespedes' bags. Which would make sense if this was 2003, and the league was brimming with guys who profile as middle of the order threats. <br />
<br />
Also sounds like some combination of our 2nd and 3rd tier prospects will have other GMs falling all over each other trying to unload their best pitchers.

Frankly, I want to trade him because I don't care that he gets his value by being a "middle of the order threat," and I think some other teams might. If they do keep him I will have no issue with that and I have no real insight about whether or not scarce qualities like "right handed power" are overrated relative to their on field value in any front offices as they seem to be on this board, but given that power hitters still tend to get more money I think it is quite possible. 

 

[Drek717]

A vast majority of this board seems almost giddy over packing Cespedes' bags. Which would make sense if this was 2003, and the league was brimming with guys who profile as middle of the order threats. <br />
<br />
Also sounds like some combination of our 2nd and 3rd tier prospects will have other GMs falling all over each other trying to unload their best pitchers.

I don't think anyone is giddy to trade Cespedes, they're giddy to turn the apparent OF logjam into value somewhere else.  If Latos for Allen Craig plus something short of two from Owens/Swihart/Betts could happen everyone would be much more interested in that.
 
Also, GMs will be interested in the Sox' 2nd and 3rd tier prospects because they're better than a decent chunk of most team's top 10.  Edwin Escobar was a top 100 prospect entering 2014, #2 in the Giants system.  Heath Hembree was in their top 10.  Escobar is #15 at Sox Prospects, widely considered a guy outside the top 10 anyway, and Hembree is #22.  The Sox farm system has five  of the best ~50 guys in all of baseball under 22 (Betts, Bogaerts, Owens, Swihart, Rodriguez) and the general perception of the farm is that they have more depth than elite top end talent.
 
Welcome to having a top 5 farm system.  I know it's an unusual place to be as a Red Sox fan, usually all these guys are traded before hitting AA for some immediate gratification who also demands a big contract.  This time the org. held on to them and as a result the club has incredible value across the farm but nowhere more obvious than in the cost controlled near ML ready pitching every other team is very interested in.
 
We all talk shit about RDLR, Webster, Ranaudo, Barnes, Workman, and Escobar because they aren't tearing MLB apart as rookies but that doesn't change the fact that if the Sox gave one of them away you would see over half the teams in baseball plant them in as their #5 pitcher with upside and not think twice about it.

 

[Toe Nash]

But he's just not a middle-of-the-order bat unless you really stretch the term. He was his rookie year, but has been a slightly-above average hitter with some pop since.
 
The wOBA numbers were posted above, but let's say you put more focus on his power numbers because they are hard to find in the current environment. Fair enough.
 
Among 146 qualified MLB hitters he ranked:
45th in SLG
28th in ISO
Tied for 34th in HR
Tied for 23rd in 2B
 
If you set the cutoff to 400 PA he came in 56th in SLG and 39th in ISO.
 
Totally fine and can be part of a good lineup, certainly. But those are the things he's good at and he is a minus in OBP skills. Shouldn't he be in the top 30 in power numbers to be comfortable putting him in the middle of a championship offense for the next few years or more?

 

[jscola85]

While I think a lot of this is overblown, I still can't help but look at teams who might have an opening or obvious upgrade opportunity in (very specifically) left field other than just the Reds, who've been pretty well discussed at this point. Note that I am doing this with no consideration of the return.
 
Detroit - They might lose Hunter, and while they probably need a CF even more, they could move JD Martinez to right easily enough to accommodate Cespedes's LF demands.
Seattle - A Cespedes-Jackson-Saunders outfield looks decent to me, and with Ackley still around as the deluxe fourth outfielder. Bonus points: were linked to him last year, have a history with Jay Z's agency.
Houston - I'm going to call this one "unlikely" but he'd be a solid upgrade for them if they're interested in trying to advance their timetable.
Mets - This seems like the best shot at a win-win deal for me. Did you know they finished tied for second last year? And that the Nats and Braves may well take a step back next year?
Reds - Read the thread.
San Francisco - Morse is a free agent, but I'm not sure this would be their style.
 
Of those, as I've said, the Mets and Mariners seem like the most logical choices, and I guess one can never rule out Detroit doing something proactive. My guess is that he stays, though, at least until next July. 

 
Detroit is an interesting option.  Perhaps they'd be willing to entertain a trade involving Cespedes and Anibal Sanchez?  Perhaps something like Cespedes + one of Ranaudo/Webster/Barnes/Rubby for Sanchez?  Detroit is one of those teams that could actually use some of that cheap, innings-eating 4th/5th starter talent we have in AAA to offset the high salaries of Verlander and likely Price.

 

[sean1562]

is martinez any good in the field? Sanchez's contract is one of the best ones they have, his FIP was 2.71 this year and 2.39 last year. they probably see robbie ray as a ranuado/webster equivalent considering they traded Doug Fister for him. After all the flak Dombrowski got last year for the fister trade, i doubt he trades anibal sanchez for a potential 5/6 starter and one year of Cespedes in LF. Maybe we could get Rick Porcello for that package but i really doubt they would give us Sanchez for that. 
 
edit: Who would we want from the mariners? they arent giving us walker or paxton, maybe they give us Roenis Elias, who seems to be Felix Doubront 2.0(Is that basically what we expect from the AAA guys we have? a ceiling of an ERA in the upper 3's, low 4's, around 200 innings pitched?)

 

[TomRicardo]

Detroit's pitching situation is interesting.
 
Porcello is entering a walk year next year as is Price.  Schrezer is a free agent.  And they have Verlander and Sanchez locked up.
 
Right now their minor league depth is Lobstein, Robbie Ray, Drew VerHagen and the very rushed Buck Farmer.  Robbie Ray could step in and be their fifth starter next year. Their main issue is that lost the back end of their bullpen.  That is entirely difficult to fill but it does mean that is a focus of their off season. The Tigers really don't have the prospects to make any big trades.  I think the plan is to move JD Martinez to RF, Davis to LF and get a CF.  They are looking for a CF and some bullpen help.
 
Possibly the Tigers would trade Porcello for JBJ, Workman, Webster/Rubby/Ranuado and top ten prospect (not Betts, Swihart, or Owens).   I am not sure they would be interested in getting rid of Anibal who is extended through 2017 (they may have more of desire to get rid of Verlander which is not much).  
 
Edit - The Tigers have about 144 million in payroll right now (after arb).  They should be offering Victor Martinez and Schrezer QOs.  If those both reject it will give them about 21 million to play with this offseason unless they plan to increase payroll again.

 

[mfried]

Detroit's pitching situation is interesting.
 
Porcello is entering a walk year next year as is Price.  Schrezer is a free agent.  And they have Verlander and Sanchez locked up.
 
Right now their minor league depth is Lobstein, Robbie Ray, Drew VerHagen and the very rushed Buck Farmer.  Robbie Ray could step in and be their fifth starter next year. Their main issue is that lost the back end of their bullpen.  That is entirely difficult to fill but it does mean that is a focus of their off season. The Tigers really don't have the prospects to make any big trades.  I think the plan is to move JD Martinez to RF, Davis to LF and get a CF.  They are looking for a CF and some bullpen help.
 
Possibly the Tigers would trade Porcello for JBJ, Workman, Webster/Rubby/Ranuado and top ten prospect (not Betts, Swihart, or Owens).   I am not sure they would be interested in getting rid of Anibal who is extended through 2017 (they may have more of desire to get rid of Verlander which is not much).  
 
Edit - The Tigers have about 144 million in payroll right now (after arb).  They should be offering Victor Martinez and Schrezer QOs.  If those both reject it will give them about 21 million to play with this offseason unless they plan to increase payroll again.

I don't remember the Red Sox offense having any trouble with Porcello.  His stuff is simply not that good.  Sanchez is a very different story, but we have much less of a chance at him than we do at Latos.

 

[foulkehampshire]

I don't remember the Red Sox offense having any trouble with Porcello.  His stuff is simply not that good.  Sanchez is a very different story, but we have much less of a chance at him than we do at Latos.

 
Porcello is young, durable, and has good stuff. He just pitches to contact, and is pretty good about keeping it on the ground. (Career 52% GB%)
 
He's never pitched behind even a passable infield defense. 

 

[jscola85]

If the Sox had an infield of Headley-X-Pedroia-Napoli, that could be pretty attractive for Porcello's pitching style.  Three out of four of those guys are GG-caliber defenders and I still have hopes for X being at least a mediocre SS.
 
He's also young and has gotten progressively better as he's been in the majors.  ERA's of 4.92, 4.75, 4.59, 4.32, 3.43 and FIP's of 4.31, 4.06, 3.91, 3.53, 3.67 from 2010-2014.  Throughout that time he's been brutalized by really poor LOB% numbers and high BABIP, which suggests that Tigers infield may have been screwing him over.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

High BABIP is pretty unsurprising for GB pitchers, though; you expect them to make up for it with low walk and HR rates, which Porcello does. His 2014 sub-.300 BABIP may not be sustainable.
 
He strikes me as a quality mid-rotation starter who just had a career year and is a good bet to regress a bit. Therefore, I wouldn't give up much for one year of him unless I felt pretty sure of being able to extend him at a reasonable price. He'd be a great asset to have for several years, one of those rotation-anchor types like a mid-career Dempster or a Brad Radke. Or think of him as a poor man's Buchholz sans squirrels. But he's not a dominating ace type by any stretch, so if he's only available for one year, I'm not sure how interested I am, and I certainly would call TRic's proposed package at least one major piece too much.

 

[TomRicardo]

I don't remember the Red Sox offense having any trouble with Porcello.  His stuff is simply not that good.  Sanchez is a very different story, but we have much less of a chance at him than we do at Latos.

 
Sanchez really is the last pitcher Detroit would want to trade.  I have no idea why people where mentioning him.
 
Latos for Cespedes I guess started it.  
 
The Tigers are not a team that would looking at Cespedes.  Instead I would imagine they would be more interested in JBJ.
 
 
Teams that would want Cespedes:
 
Reds (Latos or Cueto)
Orioles if they don't retain Markakis (not sure what the trade match up is here)
KC if they don't retain Aoki
Seattle
St Louis if they don't think Grichuk is ready
Giants
Mets

 

[sean1562]

High BABIP is pretty unsurprising for GB pitchers, though; you expect them to make up for it with low walk and HR rates, which Porcello does. His 2014 sub-.300 BABIP may not be sustainable.
 
He strikes me as a quality mid-rotation starter who just had a career year and is a good bet to regress a bit. Therefore, I wouldn't give up much for one year of him unless I felt pretty sure of being able to extend him at a reasonable price. He'd be a great asset to have for several years, one of those rotation-anchor types like a mid-career Dempster or a Brad Radke. Or think of him as a poor man's Buchholz sans squirrels. But he's not a dominating ace type by any stretch, so if he's only available for one year, I'm not sure how interested I am, and I certainly would call TRic's proposed package at least one major piece too much.

 
Porcello is about 3 months older than De la Rosa and 4 months younger than Workman. He is around the same age as our AAA guys. I wouldnt be too shocked if he improved.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Porcello might improve but TRic's suggestion seems like WAY too much to me.  Why give up something like JBJ/RDLR/Ranaudo/Cecchini for 1 year of Porcello when they could just sign McCarthy?  Porcello's the type you kick the tires on, try to get for JBJ/Escobar, and move on if there's no interest.  He's not a top of the rotation, need-to-get target.  To bring it back to the thread topic, I wouldn't trade Cespedes for him, although that wouldn't be a shockingly unfair or unequal swap.

 

[TomRicardo]

Porcello might improve but TRic's suggestion seems like WAY too much to me.  Why give up something like JBJ/RDLR/Ranaudo/Cecchini for 1 year of Porcello when they could just sign McCarthy?  Porcello's the type you kick the tires on, try to get for JBJ/Escobar, and move on if there's no interest.  He's not a top of the rotation, need-to-get target.  To bring it back to the thread topic, I wouldn't trade Cespedes for him, although that wouldn't be a shockingly unfair or unequal swap.

 
I would imagine you would try to have him sign an extension maybe 3 years and an option with a pay raise. 40/3 with 14 million dollar option on year four.
 
I would love to move some of AAA depth for a Porcello who is a decent middle of the rotation pitcher.  Ranuado and Escobar are both end of the rotation guys who could end up in the bullpen.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

TR: If you could sign McCarthy for that money, wouldn't you get him instead and keep the prospects?  Aside from age and injury history (not insignificant, I realize), they seem like comparable talents.  You'd have to really be projecting Porcello to improve with a better D behind him to justify the added resource cost in acquiring him.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
Porcello is about 3 months older than De la Rosa and 4 months younger than Workman. He is around the same age as our AAA guys. I wouldnt be too shocked if he improved.

 
A pitcher who has logged over 1000 major league innings is far less likely to have major improvement in his future than one who has thrown less than 200, pretty much regardless of age, I would think.

 

[YTF]

TomRicardo


rusty cohlebone

• 
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Posted Today, 12:18 PM

 
 
 
Teams that would want Cespedes:
 
Reds (Latos or Cueto)
Orioles if they don't retain Markakis (not sure what the trade match up is here)
KC if they don't retain Aoki
Seattle
St Louis if they don't think Grichuk is ready
Giants
Mets
 
 
TRic, St Louis is an interesting idea with the loss of Oscar Taveras. Any thought as to who you think the Cards might part with and what additional pieces they may require? I wouldn't mind seeing Lackey come back, but I can't see St. Louis doing that given the $500,000 contract for the coming season and the thought that they can probably come to some sort of agreeable extension that could work in both parties favor.  

 

[TomRicardo]

TR: If you could sign McCarthy for that money, wouldn't you get him instead and keep the prospects?  Aside from age and injury history (not insignificant, I realize), they seem like comparable talents.  You'd have to really be projecting Porcello to improve with a better D behind him to justify the added resource cost in acquiring him.

 
No, I much rather Porcello.  Porcello is younger and has a better health history than McCarthy.  
 
I am also under the belief this team needs to trade some of the assets they have now before they become Michael Bowdens

 

[chrisfont9]

I applaud Farrell for not making the 360 degree error.

You can't get away with that in the Boston market.

 

[chrisfont9]

edit: Who would we want from the mariners? they arent giving us walker or paxton, maybe they give us Roenis Elias, who seems to be Felix Doubront 2.0(Is that basically what we expect from the AAA guys we have? a ceiling of an ERA in the upper 3's, low 4's, around 200 innings pitched?)

I personally believe there would have to be another team involved for that to work. I like Elias, but that's heavily weighted by being at the game where he shut out the Royals.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Are KC and STL going to move Gordon or Holliday, respectively, or is Cespedes's preference to play LF irrelevant?

 

[TomRicardo]

I personally believe there would have to be another team involved for that to work. I like Elias, but that's heavily weighted by being at the game where he shut out the Royals.

 
If you are trading Cespedes to Seattle you would probably ask for Hultzen and DJ Patterson.  They would stare at you blankly but that is what you ask for.
 
I wish Ackley could play 3B.  He would be great to have platooning with Cecchini.
 

Are KC and STL going to move Gordon or Holliday, respectively, or is Cespedes's preference to play LF irrelevant?

 
Gordon has played RF.  He has enough of an arm for it.  That said I still have not seen a good reason why Cespedes does not play RF besides he doesn't want to.  

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

 
If you are trading Cespedes to Seattle you would probably ask for Hultzen and DJ Patterson.  They would stare at you blankly but that is what you ask for.
 
I wish Ackley could play 3B.  He would be great to have platooning with Cecchini.
 
 
Gordon has played RF.  He has enough of an arm for it.  That said I still have not seen a good reason why Cespedes does not play RF besides he doesn't want to.  

 
Or you ask for Kyle Seager and a pitcher (I still like Furbush) and let the Mariners rush Peterson to the majors themselves.

 

[benhogan]

 


 
TRic, St Louis is an interesting idea with the loss of Oscar Taveras. Any thought as to who you think the Cards might part with and what additional pieces they may require? I wouldn't mind seeing Lackey come back, but I can't see St. Louis doing that given the $500,000 contract for the coming season and the thought that they can probably come to some sort of agreeable extension that could work in both parties favor.  


 

Allen Craig to St Louis for ???

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

 
Or you ask for Kyle Seager and a pitcher (I still like Furbush) and let the Mariners rush Peterson to the majors themselves.

Yeah, that's not happening. Seager is their second-best positional player and he's affordable for them. They're not trading him for a guy they'd have for a year, let alone him and a useful pitcher. I don't even think Bill Bavasi would make that trade.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Allen Craig to St Louis for ???

Nothing .. Give him away .. I'd rather have the money to spend on something we need.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Nothing .. Give him away .. I'd rather have the money to spend on something we need.

 
Kyle Seager Justin Smoak just became a Toronto Blue Jay yesterday (with no compensation) when the M's put him on waivers. If the Red Sox wanted to give him away, it'd be easy enough to put his name on the waiver wire.

 
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Edit: misspelled "Smoak". Thanks BCMJY

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

[QUOTE="Hriniak]
Kyle Seager just became a Toronto Blue Jay yesterday (with no compensation) when the M's put him on waivers. If the Red Sox wanted to give him away, it'd be easy enough to put his name on the waiver wire.

[/QUOTE]
I think you mean Justin Smoak

 

[nighthob]

Porcello is about 3 months older than De la Rosa and 4 months younger than Workman. He is around the same age as our AAA guys. I wouldnt be too shocked if he improved.

I have a friend that's a Tigers' blogger that wants to set up a Porcello hall of fame betting pool, because given how young he arrived and how steady he's been, there's an outside chance that he just keeps going out there winning 12-16 games a year with a career prime bump to the 14-18 win range and finishes his career with 300 wins. Which would make him the worst pitcher in the hall of fame when all was said and done.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I think you mean Justin Smoak

 
Of course, but all corner infielders look alike to me.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

 
Ummm...I think you mean Jusitn Smoak. Teams don't often put 6 win players on waivers. And Smoak doesn't have the contract Craig does. 

 
Yeah, brain fart on my part. 
 
11 years ago, the Red Sox put Manny on irrevocable waivers. No takers.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Yeah, that's not happening. Seager is their second-best positional player and he's affordable for them. They're not trading him for a guy they'd have for a year, let alone him and a useful pitcher. I don't even think Bill Bavasi would make that trade.

 
Okay, but their #2 prospect is a righty-hitting third baseman whom Zduriencik has said will compete for a starting spot on the major league roster this spring. Cespedes alone wouldn't get it done, but he's exactly the right-handed power threat they need. Add a couple of second-tier Red Sox prospects and I don't think it's an insane ask.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

 
Seager is establishing himself as a 5-6 win player and is only entering his first year of arbitration. That is an insanely valuable player, especially at 3B. It would take a lot more than you are suggesting. And the prospect you are referring to, DJ Peterson, is seen as most likely having to move to 1B due to inadequate defense. If he's knocking on the door, LoMo will be moving back to LF. 

Thanks for your feedback. Given that Cespedes would clearly fill a need for Seattle, what would you ask for?

 

[CaskNFappin]

If Cespedes and Craig can net us a 5th starter ceiling prospect and clear room for an 8HR guy who doesn't strike out too much....well we NEED to pay that freight

 

[rodderick]

edit: lacking basic reading comprehension skills. 

 

[bstoker7]

Just a guess, but I'm pretty sure it was a joke.