Your Red Sox Blind Spot
- Thread starter The Talented Allen Ripley
- Start date
I'm a little surprised that noone has mentioned our namesake, Sam Horn. He came up midyear in '87 and was a revelation - OPS+ of 143, slugging consistently over .600 until the last week of the season, 14 HRs in about 150 ABs. This was the guy who was going to make George Scott look like George C. Scott. But Sam was a DH and a DH only, and he was blocked by Jim Rice and Don Baylor. He only had 61 ABs in '88, 54 in '89 and was gone by '90.
I remember thinking that he was one break away from stardom at the time, but just he couldn't get one. Later years proved that he was a pedestrian batter overall with better than average pop, and as a first baseman he was a DH. But part of me wonders what would have happened if he had gotten a real shot after 1987.
... and of course mwonow beats me to it
I remember thinking that he was one break away from stardom at the time, but just he couldn't get one. Later years proved that he was a pedestrian batter overall with better than average pop, and as a first baseman he was a DH. But part of me wonders what would have happened if he had gotten a real shot after 1987.
... and of course mwonow beats me to it
I've had many of these down the years, but I might have a bigger blind spot for Jackie Bradley, Jr. than any of them. It just doesn't add up for me that he can have those NCAA and Minor League numbers and still not be able to hit well enough to carry his glove.
I just don't even understand it.
This might have been mentioned.
I just don't even understand it.
This might have been mentioned.
For me this is without a doubt Gabe Kapler. He was barely useful when he played for us. But, I will never forget those first couple games he played in Fenway. That was something special. I justify my celebration of him on my assumption that he was an amazing clubhouse presence both in terms of personality and workout regimen. My wife and I agree that we never enjoyed any post-game interviews as much as those of Kapler. He was incredibly intelligent and well-spoken. I hated his swing. I hated his plate approach. I hated when he tried to steal bases. But, I basically attribute the 03-05 success to him.
I've got one more blind spot beyond my aforementioned Frank Baumann, and it is one Gordon Windhorn who spent 1956 spring training with the Sox. Although I was only eight years old at the time and only sometimes remember now what I had for this morning's breakfast, I clearly remember Curt Gowdy referring to him as the fastest player he had ever seen. It is amazing how much credence a kid can put on what one grown-up's opinion may happen to be, and I thought that Windhorn would set the stolen base record playing for our team. (If this thread goes on much longer, I'll start singing the Narragansett jingle or maybe even the beginning and ending theme songs from Big Brother Bob Emery.)
He didn't stay a blind spot for long, but I can remember Donnie Sadler as a rookie getting a triple on ball off the wall in left center and running way out into right from second to catch a looper and thinking he was the fastest guy I'd ever seen and thinking he would be a star.
I always thought Brian Daubach was solid, even now when I looked at his numbers I was surprised. #blindspot
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
here here!
Hewould make guys who swung look like fools, but he could not throw strikes. But if he ever got ahead 0-2 or 1-2 it was a lot of fun
Clearly, I agree with that one. And speaking Clearly, Mark Clear - of the "cleaver" Clears - was, IMO, too good to include on a list of guys who were in the range of "kinda sucky" or whatever. (Or is that my blind spot showing?)Mugsys Jock said:
Whenever I'd watch Ryan Sweeney come up to the plate, I always thought that he had a decent chance to hit one out. Fairly talented ballplayer, big and strong...he just looked like someone that should hit .310 with 25 HR. Never hit more than six in a season though.
If it's the line drive homerun I'm thinking of, that was the hardest hit ball I have ever seen in my 47 years, bar none. I remember thinking how lucky it was that it didn't hit a fan in the monster seats, because it would have killed them. The ball ricocheted almost to the infield.Otis Foster said:
Sweeney pissed off my Dad to no end. My Dad was a great ballplayer, but his 5'9" 175 lb. body could only take him so far. He'd look at Sweeney and shake his head. "Put me in that guy's body and I'd hit 40 doubles and 20 home runs."
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
Well, put it this way: in a Boston uniform, he had a WHIP of 1.63 and a BB/9 of 6.7.
He got surprisingly decent results, considering (99 ERA+ with the Sox), and he did have one really solid year for the Sox (1982). But in the end he couldn't throw strikes to save his life. I'm sure the umps did give up on his curve too soon sometimes, but nobody walks almost 7 batters per nine because umps.
Speaking of catchers and weird walkoffs, I was at Fenway the night Marc Sullivan knocked in the winning run with his ass.
Roberto Petagine fits the criteria, I believe. I still can't believe he's not in the Hall of Fame, well maybe not here but somewhere.
And I always think of Carl Pavano as the guy who pit up 9 WAR in two seasons (2004 & 2010) and not the guy who put 8 WAR over the rest of his career.
And I always think of Carl Pavano as the guy who pit up 9 WAR in two seasons (2004 & 2010) and not the guy who put 8 WAR over the rest of his career.
Ted Cox - still holds the record for 6 consecutive hits to start a mlb career. That was in the same year he was named minor league player of the year. Highlights included being drafted in the 1st round before Lynn and being packaged in a trade to get the RS Eck.
So many have already been named. Win gave me my first auto at Fenway. Chico Walker was my first prospect crush.
George Scott version 2? Ugh.
Brian Rose?? Still waiting.
Maybe I'll second Butch Hobson, the player WMB aspires to be. Saw his inside the park HR. So there was that.
George Scott version 2? Ugh.
Brian Rose?? Still waiting.
Maybe I'll second Butch Hobson, the player WMB aspires to be. Saw his inside the park HR. So there was that.
pokey_reese said:
O'Leary is definitely mine too. Not so much the good years from '95-'99 (when I thought he was going to turn into a poor man's Barry Bonds), but the years after he dropped off a cliff. His stats really took a dive in 2000 and 2001, and you could see him struggling to get to a lot of balls in left field, but I still thought he'd be able to turn it around and put together a long career. Not even close.
Darren Bragg is my other guy. Looking back at his two-plus seasons in Boston, I'm not sure what the hell I was thinking. I always wanted to consider him in the same class of player as Trot Nixon, a solid-hitting, dirt dog-type right fielder who you could count on for a big hit and a solid glove. But Bragg was no Trot Nixon. Not even close.
edit: huh, I'd completely forgotten that Troy O'Leary's final MLB game was the 2003 NLCS Game 7 Cubs-Marlins, when he hit a solo HR for the Cubs in the 7th inning. He played one more season in South Korea, then retired.
Loved Beniquez as well.
Also was a huge fan of Rogelio (Roger) Moret. 13-2 as a 23YO in '73, 14-3 in '75. Tall, lanky feller.
Seemed like he would be something unusual, and it turns out this was true.
Tragically, he had a mental breakdown after being traded to the Rangers and was out of the game.
Also... before there was Deven Marrero... there was Jose Iglesias... before Iglesias was Rey Quinones... before Quinones there was Jackie Gutierrez... and before Gutierrez... there was JUAN BUSTABAD!
Awarded Special Person status by Old Hickory seemingly as a 16 year-old, he was the next Luis Aparicio...
I still hold out hope that Bustabad will be a September call-up this year.
Also was a huge fan of Rogelio (Roger) Moret. 13-2 as a 23YO in '73, 14-3 in '75. Tall, lanky feller.
Seemed like he would be something unusual, and it turns out this was true.
Tragically, he had a mental breakdown after being traded to the Rangers and was out of the game.
Also... before there was Deven Marrero... there was Jose Iglesias... before Iglesias was Rey Quinones... before Quinones there was Jackie Gutierrez... and before Gutierrez... there was JUAN BUSTABAD!
Awarded Special Person status by Old Hickory seemingly as a 16 year-old, he was the next Luis Aparicio...
I still hold out hope that Bustabad will be a September call-up this year.
That's a good stroll down shortstop prospect Memory Lane. I thought Quinones was going to be Nomar before there was a Nomar.Dick Pole Upside said:
Wilton Veras. His early success had me dreaming of stardom. When he scuffled I ignored it and waited anxiously for the liners to return. Still waiting...
I am wondering if my de ision to purchase a JBJ shirt during late spring training two years ago was a bad decision. I may have been one of the first on that bandwagon.
I am wondering if my de ision to purchase a JBJ shirt during late spring training two years ago was a bad decision. I may have been one of the first on that bandwagon.
Dante Bichette, Bernard Gilkey, Orlando Merced, Shane Mack, Kevin Mitchell, Willie McGee, Wes Chamberlain, Herm Winningham. You get the picture...guys who were somewhere else and at one point could play.
But my all-time favorite? Andre Dawson.
But my all-time favorite? Andre Dawson.
I thought Phil Plantier would be the next wave of power hitting outfielders post Rice-Evans era.
I thought Tim Naehring would be a line-drive machine. I remember watching a few games after he got called up, and everything he hit, even the outs were line drives. I envisioned 40 doubles a year off the wall. I played SS in high school at the time and really wanted Naehring to be a player I could love. At that point, pre-Nomar, we had not really had a good offensive SS. I still to this day think he could have been a very solid player if it wasn't for his multitude of injuries.
I remember watching 1 dominant start Kevin Morton's rookie year and thought he would be the next Bruce Hurst.
I thought Tim Naehring would be a line-drive machine. I remember watching a few games after he got called up, and everything he hit, even the outs were line drives. I envisioned 40 doubles a year off the wall. I played SS in high school at the time and really wanted Naehring to be a player I could love. At that point, pre-Nomar, we had not really had a good offensive SS. I still to this day think he could have been a very solid player if it wasn't for his multitude of injuries.
I remember watching 1 dominant start Kevin Morton's rookie year and thought he would be the next Bruce Hurst.
Pedro 4 99MVP said:
John Valentin was excellent from 93 to 96. He was moved because of Nomar, but could have stayed at SS.
I hear you on Naehring though - seems like he was an "important" part of the Sox for 6 years or so. But when you look back at the stats, he had about 2 good years (over 3 seasons.)
Nomar could rake; Bustabad et al was more about The Parade of The Salami Bats...Philip Jeff Frye said:
Mine have now all been mentioned - Tony Pena, Moret, Fossum. I don't include Pete Runnels and Tim Wakefield because they were (sort of) good.
Off topic a bit:
While looking over this thread, I've spent a lot of times looking up the numbers of the mid to late 90's Sox. Guys like Billy Hatcher, Damon Berryhill, Jeff Fry and Luis Alicia (who I didn't recall, walked a ton).
Anyway, while looking at the career numbers of Vaughn and Valentine (two guys who of course don't belong in this thread) I noticed that the two had generated the exact same fWAR (31.4) over their careers. Now WAR is of course only a broad brush, but that struck me as kind of neat, given how closely their careers mirrored each other (College to the Sox, eventually sucking with the Mets).
While looking over this thread, I've spent a lot of times looking up the numbers of the mid to late 90's Sox. Guys like Billy Hatcher, Damon Berryhill, Jeff Fry and Luis Alicia (who I didn't recall, walked a ton).
Anyway, while looking at the career numbers of Vaughn and Valentine (two guys who of course don't belong in this thread) I noticed that the two had generated the exact same fWAR (31.4) over their careers. Now WAR is of course only a broad brush, but that struck me as kind of neat, given how closely their careers mirrored each other (College to the Sox, eventually sucking with the Mets).
More on topic, I really liked Luis Alicia when I was 12 years old, for some reason. Cool to see that he was sort of like a poor man's Luis Castillo, minus the speed.
To this day I curse old one-M for burying Alcantara and Petegine on teams that were desperate for lineup depth and an opening at DH. They should have had big chances to fail and never got them. Ridiculous.
A lot of guys mentioned here were valuable assets who got hurt a lot. Naehring and Frye stand out to me as players who we were robbed of seeing their best work. Having them around in at the top of their game from 1998 to 2000 might have been enough to break the curse with Pedro and Nomar in their prime.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is Reid Nichols. He had one excellent year as a backup, and I was convinced he should start. When I got my strat-o-matic set for that season, I replayed the year with him playing every game. I don't remember if it mattered. Of course, when 9-year-old me played Strat, the Red Sox always won 100 games.
A lot of guys mentioned here were valuable assets who got hurt a lot. Naehring and Frye stand out to me as players who we were robbed of seeing their best work. Having them around in at the top of their game from 1998 to 2000 might have been enough to break the curse with Pedro and Nomar in their prime.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is Reid Nichols. He had one excellent year as a backup, and I was convinced he should start. When I got my strat-o-matic set for that season, I replayed the year with him playing every game. I don't remember if it mattered. Of course, when 9-year-old me played Strat, the Red Sox always won 100 games.
Just fwiw, since I've seen it referenced a couple times--Petagine only ever played for the Sox under Francona, in 2005. I was so gung-ho for his tryout too, and then he played 1B like the Little Leaguer who wears jeans to practice and Tito never went to him.
Dalton Jones. Yeah, I'm old. What a great swing...when it connected, which wasn't nearly enough. Terrible fielder.
BH Kim. The man never got a fair shake in Boston. He should have been a great piece for the '03 and '04 stretch runs, but Gump absolutely Gumped him. Who the hell runs a starter out to relieve between starts? Grady Little, that's who.
Keep in mind that everyone in the sports media lost their freaking minds the two times Boston used Tim Lollar as a pinch hitter. Even though it worked at least once (I think in '86 he hit a ground rule double for McNamara). I suspect that the ensuing managers were a little gun shy after that.Savin Hillbilly said:
EDIT: As for me, it was Mario Guerrero and Sam Horn. Guerrero had moments when he looked like Mark Belanger out there in the middle infield. Unfortunately he was an even worse hitter. And Sam used to blast the longest home runs. I remember one in spring training, maybe '88? It was against the Twins, and he absolutely crushed a shot that bounced off a billboard about 450' from home plate. And I swear the frigging ball hadn't hit the apex of its trajectory yet. I managed to convince myself for years that Joe Morgan was responsible for his fizzling out. (He was also the nicest guy alive, all of us that worked at Fenway back then loved him.)
Pedro could murder a friend of mine and I'd immediately wonder what he did to deserve it. Does that count?
The fleet and fleeting LaSchelle Tarver. I was waiting for him to come up after being at the game where Boggs scored him from first with a bullet off the left field wall, the fastest first to home I ever saw on the Red Sox. Also, a slew of pitching wonders from the late sixties and seventies, most notably Mikes Nagy (served in the military and never panned out after '69) Garman and Paxton (would hope they would have stayed with the Red Sox, but did not last terribly long).
Greenwell is mine, too. First game I went to, he hit a home run the first pitch after I shouted "Hit a homer, Greenwell!" from the first base stands. I was convinced he did it just for me.The Allented Mr Ripley said:
Last year I found out most of the people here think he is a colossal dick. I refuse to delve any further into reasons why people feel that way.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]I win for blindest spot of all: I was miserable about the trade for Gagne, not only b/c of the loss of David Murphy, but also of Kason Gabbard. I was sure the soft-tossing lefty had a bright future, based on a couple of really good starts, against Atlanta and KC.[/SIZE]
Philip Jeff Frye said:
Unless it's the egg nog aftereffects, I recall Ted Williams as a big believer in Quinones' MLB potential.