Other than it starting mid-season, how is this that much different a dynamic than having Chili Davis and Victor Rodriguez on the same staff? I guess it's weird in that it has never really been the norm, but in one of these threads just a few days ago, people were postulating that perhaps teams need two pitching coaches (or more). One guy responsible for 12-13 pitchers at any given time, not to mention the 6-7+ guys shuttling up and down from Pawtucket...seems like a situation ripe for some delegation of duties.Sort of seems like Willis is already taking the fall...it must feel a little odd tone a pitching coach and have a second pitching coach - albeit with a different approach - be brought in while you are still there. Like I said, weird.
I don't want to read too much into this, but this suggests Willis is being too old-school.Scott Lauber ESPN Staff Writer
Part of the Red Sox's decision to put Brian Bannister in uniform before games was driven by the pitchers' desire for more analytical Pitch/FX data, according to manager John Farrell.
I don't quite understand why he'd need to be in uniform for that. What does having him wear baseball pajamas allow him to do that he couldn't do before? Can you not be on the field or in the clubhouse unless you're wearing a uniform? I feel like I've seen people in street clothes on the field and in the dugout before games, but I assume there's some special perk you get for putting on the outfit.Scott Lauber ESPN Staff Writer
Part of the Red Sox's decision to put Brian Bannister in uniform before games was driven by the pitchers' desire for more analytical Pitch/FX data, according to manager John Farrell.
I think the uniform thing is irrelevant. It's just a means of differentiating between the suit in the front office that he's been and his new responsibilities being in the clubhouse and with the big league club full time.I don't quite understand why he'd need to be in uniform for that. What does having him wear baseball pajamas allow him to do that he couldn't do before?
He has been providing information for Farrell and Willis all season as Director of Pitching Analytics and development. How much of that got passed on to the MLB pitchers is a question since they obviously don't seem to be getting enough.I mentioned this - having a second pitching coach, much like teams have two hitting coaches now - in another thread and am glad to see it come to fruition. With the amount of analytics and video study and everything else hat is now part of the game, I'm actually kind of surprised it took this long. Someone had linked an article in another thread that quoted the Angels pitching coach - six years ago! - stating that with all his other responsibilities, he spends very little time actually coaching pitching. That strikes me as a major issue.
Have one guy handling the mechanics, watching video on that and handling in game strategy. He gets fed his info to work with by an analytics guy dedicated to identifying trends, spotting areas of concern and formulating an attack plan (if you will).
Bannister and Willis may not prove to be the best guys to pull it off, but I think this is definitely a step in the right direction and it still baffles me a bit that teams started trending towards this for hitting coaches without following suit on the pitching end. (I'm aware people are citing bullpen coach as possibly filling this role, but I don't think it was at this level).
The main difference seems to be he will be in uniform and interacting directly with pitchers. Also, with the draft over maybe he expands the scope of information that is provided.“He has worked closely with supplying information to John Farrell and Carl Willis throughout the season,”
I don't believe you can be on the field unless in uniform - medical staff excepted. Apparently they want him to have the ability to talk with pitchers on the mound.I don't quite understand why he'd need to be in uniform for that. What does having him wear baseball pajamas allow him to do that he couldn't do before? Can you not be on the field or in the clubhouse unless you're wearing a uniform? I feel like I've seen people in street clothes on the field and in the dugout before games, but I assume there's some special perk you get for putting on the outfit.
From the link in Sampo Gida's post:I don't believe you can be on the field unless in uniform - medical staff excepted. Apparently they want him to have the ability to talk with pitchers on the mound.
From the link in Sampo Gida's post:
"In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands."
So whatever the reason is for him being in uniform, it's not for mound visits.
I don't know that that's necessarily true. The coaches need to get on the same page and present their advice in a simple manner. 10 different opinions telling a pitcher to keep 15 different mechanical things straight in their head can be a recipe for completely screwing a guy up.Pitching is an intensely individual act, and different athletes respond to different coaches in different ways. Having more options in that area is nothing but a good thing.
What if the coaches didn't all over-lap? Like one worked with relievers, the other starters. Or one just went over film and mechanics with you, while another went over pitchFX type data and covered why certain pitches worked well and others didn't at different times, while a third did advanced scouting on hitters and gave you strengths and weaknesses for the next series. These are all things the pitching coach does now, but could be broken down into specializations and improved.I don't know that that's necessarily true. The coaches need to get on the same page and present their advice in a simple manner. 10 different opinions telling a pitcher to keep 15 different mechanical things straight in their head can be a recipe for completely screwing a guy up.
So, you're saying we a coach for each pitcher ... and a shrink for Clay?Pitching is an intensely individual act, and different athletes respond to different coaches in different ways. Having more options in that area is nothing but a good thing.
I think what you're describing does seem to be the way things are going. It think that could work, although managing it all could be a challenge. It feels like teams are still searching a bit to figure out the best way to communicate all this data to players in a way that they can use to actually improve their performance.What if the coaches didn't all over-lap? Like one worked with relievers, the other starters. Or one just went over film and mechanics with you, while another went over pitchFX type data and covered why certain pitches worked well and others didn't at different times, while a third did advanced scouting on hitters and gave you strengths and weaknesses for the next series. These are all things the pitching coach does now, but could be broken down into specializations and improved.
That and Bannister probably isn't going on road trips.From the link in Sampo Gida's post:
"In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands."
So whatever the reason is for him being in uniform, it's not for mound visits.
I didn't see that in the articleThat and Bannister probably isn't going on road trips.
This sentence from the weei.com article linked above suggests otherwise: "In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands." Not each home game, but each game period.That and Bannister probably isn't going on road trips.
I read that as "each game working with pitchers" not "each game, working with pitchers". I don't have specific knowledge but I'd be really, really surprised if he's moving from 0 to 81 road games in his role.This sentence from the weei.com article linked above suggests otherwise: "In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands." Not each home game, but each game period.
Out of curiosity, why would you be really, really surprised?I read that as "each game working with pitchers" not "each game, working with pitchers". I don't have specific knowledge but I'd be really, really surprised if he's moving from 0 to 81 road games in his role.
Because there aren't 81 road games remaining?Out of curiosity, why would you be really, really surprised?
In the good old days, catchers were stalwarts rather than mere position players. They were captains of the ship, field commanders crouched in their bunkers behind the plate. They ran pitching staffs--serving as signal-callers and psychologists both--moved fielders left and right, flashed strategies for base-stealing and bunt defenses. They were bomb shelters against nuclear collisions with incoming runners, howitzers to nail outgoing runners.
Your shortstop, your middle infielder have to be great athletes, but how many plays are they in on? The catcher is there for every one of them; he's the only guy on the team looking out at the field. Everyone else is looking in to him, and it's important for every guy to see him bouncing around, blocking balls, taking an upbeat approach to everything he does."
Jason, ever consider coming out of retirement?The cliche, says Stearns, is "calling" games, catchers putting down signals in sync with their pitchers. But the cliche is built on an old home truth: Catchers, when they are in their "zone," think with their pitchers. It is as though the hand flashing the signal for a pitch and the hand releasing the pitch itself are indistinguishable, Stearns says...
Catchers today simply do not have that kind of command. Many pitchers call their own games. Seattle's Randy Johnson says he shakes off his catcher, Wilson, "about 40% of the time." Atlanta's Lopez says his pitchers will shake him off 'about 20% of the time and maybe with John Smoltz it's more. The Orioles' Jimmy Key says, "I'm the kind of pitcher who studies hitters and knows what I have to do to get people out, so I'm not looking for catchers to call games for me. Some guys do, but I'm not one of them."
It seems like a pretty large lifestyle change if he doesn't normally travel with the team. Maybe he already does, I guess don't really know.Out of curiosity, why would you be really, really surprised?
Also, why would one assume he was at 0 games previously? FO guys go on road trips.Because there aren't 81 road games remaining?
I'd also make the assumption that he's not only accompanied the big league team on a road trip or two already, but he's also made visits to all the minor league teams to check in with the pitchers there. I doubt very much he's been chained to a desk in the basement at Fenway since the end of spring training.Also, why would one assume he was at 0 games previously? FO guys go on road trips.
I wonder if there's something else at play here...perhaps Farrell and/or DD have issued orders that players are only to take instruction from uniformed people; in other words, all analytics and other directives come through team management rather than in the form of a memo or a suit coming down and talking to players.Isn't the something the uniform?
According to Rich Hill, Bannister was big factor in his transformation, and he credits one long conversation where Bannister got Hill to totally re-think his approach in a unique way. According to Hill, this yielded immediate results.
He's also helped O'Sullivan improve fwiw, also by getting SOS to re-think his approach.
I think an arrangement that gives Bannister more contact with Sox pitchers, where he can spend more time and therefore probably consult more deeply, will be a good thing.
Brian pointed out that Kershaw threw his curveball 45 percent of the time. He basically emphasized that, take what you think are your best pitches and use them correctly. So with me, it was not only throwing the curveball but throwing it at different speeds, changing the shape of it as well as manipulating the spin on the fastball. I’ve been trying to do that consistently.
One could ask the same question as to why they underperformed their FIP pre Bannister?Interesting. What does a coach do to suddenly make a whole staff start outperforming their FIP?