Brian Bannister to be in uniform and assist Carl Willis the rest of season.
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Scott Lauber ESPN Staff Writer
Red Sox will have Brian Bannister in uniform for the rest of the season to assist pitching coach Carl Willis before and after games. He will watch games from the clubhouse and be more hands-on with the pitchers. Bannister, a second-generation former big-league pitcher, was brought in last season in an analytical role. Played a big role in revival of Rich Hill's career.
Red Sox will have Brian Bannister in uniform for the rest of the season to assist pitching coach Carl Willis before and after games. He will watch games from the clubhouse and be more hands-on with the pitchers. Bannister, a second-generation former big-league pitcher, was brought in last season in an analytical role. Played a big role in revival of Rich Hill's career.
This is an interesting development presumably oked and with the blessing of DD, who had the reputation of being a non-sabre, more eyes less #s type of player assessment executive.
This also reads like Willis is going to take the fall if...
This also reads like Willis is going to take the fall if...
Sort of seems like Willis is already taking the fall...it must feel a little odd tone a pitching coach and have a second pitching coach - albeit with a different approach - be brought in while you are still there. Like I said, weird.
Other than it starting mid-season, how is this that much different a dynamic than having Chili Davis and Victor Rodriguez on the same staff? I guess it's weird in that it has never really been the norm, but in one of these threads just a few days ago, people were postulating that perhaps teams need two pitching coaches (or more). One guy responsible for 12-13 pitchers at any given time, not to mention the 6-7+ guys shuttling up and down from Pawtucket...seems like a situation ripe for some delegation of duties.
I can see where it might reflect poorly on Willis, but the fact that they're retaining him while adding Bannister to the mix seems to be an acknowledgement that one designated pitching coach isn't really enough any more, especially if each coach can bring a different style and base of knowledge to the equation.
I don't want to read too much into this, but this suggests Willis is being too old-school.
I don't quite understand why he'd need to be in uniform for that. What does having him wear baseball pajamas allow him to do that he couldn't do before? Can you not be on the field or in the clubhouse unless you're wearing a uniform? I feel like I've seen people in street clothes on the field and in the dugout before games, but I assume there's some special perk you get for putting on the outfit.
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I think the uniform thing is irrelevant. It's just a means of differentiating between the suit in the front office that he's been and his new responsibilities being in the clubhouse and with the big league club full time.
I mentioned this - having a second pitching coach, much like teams have two hitting coaches now - in another thread and am glad to see it come to fruition. With the amount of analytics and video study and everything else hat is now part of the game, I'm actually kind of surprised it took this long. Someone had linked an article in another thread that quoted the Angels pitching coach - six years ago! - stating that with all his other responsibilities, he spends very little time actually coaching pitching. That strikes me as a major issue.
Have one guy handling the mechanics, watching video on that and handling in game strategy. He gets fed his info to work with by an analytics guy dedicated to identifying trends, spotting areas of concern and formulating an attack plan (if you will).
Bannister and Willis may not prove to be the best guys to pull it off, but I think this is definitely a step in the right direction and it still baffles me a bit that teams started trending towards this for hitting coaches without following suit on the pitching end. (I'm aware people are citing bullpen coach as possibly filling this role, but I don't think it was at this level).
Have one guy handling the mechanics, watching video on that and handling in game strategy. He gets fed his info to work with by an analytics guy dedicated to identifying trends, spotting areas of concern and formulating an attack plan (if you will).
Bannister and Willis may not prove to be the best guys to pull it off, but I think this is definitely a step in the right direction and it still baffles me a bit that teams started trending towards this for hitting coaches without following suit on the pitching end. (I'm aware people are citing bullpen coach as possibly filling this role, but I don't think it was at this level).
He has been providing information for Farrell and Willis all season as Director of Pitching Analytics and development. How much of that got passed on to the MLB pitchers is a question since they obviously don't seem to be getting enough.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/07/05/red-sox-add-pitching-analytics-guru-brian-bannister-to-big-league-staff-as-assistant-have-no-plans-to-name-him-pitching-coach/
The main difference seems to be he will be in uniform and interacting directly with pitchers. Also, with the draft over maybe he expands the scope of information that is provided.
Its also a way for the FO to gauge Willis performance and relations with the pitchers as Bannister will be inside and one would imagine reporting not only to Willis but also his bosses, given he is now wearing 2 hats.
Yes, sorry I wasn't more explicit. In my scenario the Bannister role would be feeding info to both the player directly and Willis, on a pregame basis and also from behind the scenes during the game. Which is what i suspect is meant by them saying he will watch games from the clubhouse. The ideal here is that you split off some of Willis's job so that he can, you know, actually focus on coaching pitching more. There's no reason they can't develop a group meeting where both of them talk about the overall picture and then they digress to their specialties. Let Willis focus on mechanical issues and momentary issues needing attention. Let Bannister crunch the numbers. Overlap them a bit and profit.
I don't believe you can be on the field unless in uniform - medical staff excepted. Apparently they want him to have the ability to talk with pitchers on the mound.
From the link in Sampo Gida's post:
"In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands."
So whatever the reason is for him being in uniform, it's not for mound visits.
There's also a limit to uniformed non-players in the dugout. Remember Pesky being forced out by enforcement of that rule?
Good move by the Sox to concentrate Bannister's efforts in Boston.
This sounds to me like the Sox are both trying to improve the pitching staff internally to the best of their ability, as well as laying down contingency plans for a possible transition.
Both of which are positive developments.
This sounds to me like the Sox are both trying to improve the pitching staff internally to the best of their ability, as well as laying down contingency plans for a possible transition.
Both of which are positive developments.
NBA coaching staffs have expanded in the last decade. NFL coaching staffs are huge and have very specific broken down responsibilities. Compared to how much you spend on even league minimum players, coaches are cheap potential ways to add value. Making hitting and pitching coaches into teams of multiple coaches with specific responsibilities seems like a no brainer to me when you have a roster that costs more than $100 Million. The staff breakdown as it is right now, with guys nominally being in charge of bases and "the bench" or "the bullpen" seems pretty out dated, even though I know those guys have different responsibilities prior to games. Their main job is not to be in a location and give advice during a game, they do so much more before the games, and maybe even during. You really could have 3-4 man teams working just on pitching, hitting, and defense. With maybe specific interns/special assistants helping by breaking down video, crunching numbers, etc. That whole coaching staff would still cost less than a backup outfielder and not hurt your cap.
Pitching is an intensely individual act, and different athletes respond to different coaches in different ways. Having more options in that area is nothing but a good thing.
I don't know that that's necessarily true. The coaches need to get on the same page and present their advice in a simple manner. 10 different opinions telling a pitcher to keep 15 different mechanical things straight in their head can be a recipe for completely screwing a guy up.
What if the coaches didn't all over-lap? Like one worked with relievers, the other starters. Or one just went over film and mechanics with you, while another went over pitchFX type data and covered why certain pitches worked well and others didn't at different times, while a third did advanced scouting on hitters and gave you strengths and weaknesses for the next series. These are all things the pitching coach does now, but could be broken down into specializations and improved.
I think what you're describing does seem to be the way things are going. It think that could work, although managing it all could be a challenge. It feels like teams are still searching a bit to figure out the best way to communicate all this data to players in a way that they can use to actually improve their performance.
Despite all the data the Red Sox presumably had in the past year or so, it hasn't really led to much of an edge in pitching. Hopefully Bannister working more closely with the pitchers can better translate some of that stuff into information they can use to improve. More data doesn't always = better, though. As a biomedical researcher, I've heard a lot of extravagant claims made about big data that haven't turned out to much.
EDIT: Bannister has had some successes with Hill and O'Sullivan though, so maybe I shouldn't be so grumpy about it.
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This sentence from the weei.com article linked above suggests otherwise: "In his new role, he’ll be in uniform before each game working with pitchers, but big league rules prohibit him from watching games in the dugout, so he’ll either watch from the clubhouse or stands." Not each home game, but each game period.
I read that as "each game working with pitchers" not "each game, working with pitchers". I don't have specific knowledge but I'd be really, really surprised if he's moving from 0 to 81 road games in his role.
Kind of a testament to Varitek, isn't it.
Pitchers would always talk about him as being incredibly prepared for each game. He apparently took it upon himself to study each hitters' tendencies and how they'd relate to that day's pitcher, kind of like sabre before there was sabre.
Apparently Vazquez & Co. aren't in that same class, so Bannister takes over the role.
EDIT: Here's a fascinating LA Times article from way back (1997), talking about catchers:
Tools of Intelligence
Pitchers would always talk about him as being incredibly prepared for each game. He apparently took it upon himself to study each hitters' tendencies and how they'd relate to that day's pitcher, kind of like sabre before there was sabre.
Apparently Vazquez & Co. aren't in that same class, so Bannister takes over the role.
EDIT: Here's a fascinating LA Times article from way back (1997), talking about catchers:
Tools of Intelligence
Jason, ever consider coming out of retirement?
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It seems like a pretty large lifestyle change if he doesn't normally travel with the team. Maybe he already does, I guess don't really know.
I'd also make the assumption that he's not only accompanied the big league team on a road trip or two already, but he's also made visits to all the minor league teams to check in with the pitchers there. I doubt very much he's been chained to a desk in the basement at Fenway since the end of spring training.
I think the fact that the team felt they needed to announce the arrangement means that something in Bannister's routine is changing. It probably hasn't been unusual to see him on the field or in the clubhouse at Fenway periodically so far this year, but him doing it on the road more regularly would be unusual if he hasn't been doing it before. And given the media in this town, someone would have surely noted it the first time it happened and made more out of it than is really there. Being preemptive and stating upfront what the deal is at least takes the surprise out of when he does show up on the field and in the clubhouse in the Bronx next Friday.
He will be on the road.
Farrell added about Bannister, "The only difference is he is going to be with us pregame both at home and on the road.
via Chris Smith/Masslive
Farrell added about Bannister, "The only difference is he is going to be with us pregame both at home and on the road.
via Chris Smith/Masslive
I wonder if there's something else at play here...perhaps Farrell and/or DD have issued orders that players are only to take instruction from uniformed people; in other words, all analytics and other directives come through team management rather than in the form of a memo or a suit coming down and talking to players.
I doubt there are any "orders" necessary. Bannister is either doing coaching or something like it, and coaches traditionally wear uniforms. It's possible players are just more apt to listen to a guy in uniform - I mean, they're all wearing the same uniform and are clearly all on the same team. Players are weird.
I guess it probably looks more "basebally" to see a guy in uniform working with a player than a guy in a suit or business casual or something.
I guess it probably looks more "basebally" to see a guy in uniform working with a player than a guy in a suit or business casual or something.
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According to Rich Hill, Bannister was big factor in his transformation, and he credits one long conversation where Bannister got Hill to totally re-think his approach in a unique way. According to Hill, this yielded immediate results.
He's also helped O'Sullivan improve fwiw, also by getting SOS to re-think his approach.
I think an arrangement that gives Bannister more contact with Sox pitchers, where he can spend more time and therefore probably consult more deeply, will be a good thing.
He's also helped O'Sullivan improve fwiw, also by getting SOS to re-think his approach.
I think an arrangement that gives Bannister more contact with Sox pitchers, where he can spend more time and therefore probably consult more deeply, will be a good thing.
For years I've been asking why pitchers with decent curveballs aren't following in Jimmy Key's footsteps and playing off variations with the pitch. Very glad to see that apporach in Bannister's working with Hill:
I thought it was time to bump this given the pitching turnaround since July 5th when the team had a 4.52 ERA. Since then the team ERA has been 3.49. The BP has had its hiccups to be sure, but the turn around is most noticeable with the starting rotation
Pitcher Pre-Bannister / Post Bannister
David Price 4.64 ERA 3.50 FIP/ 2.79 ERA 3.34 FIP
Rick Porcello 3.82 ERA 3.86 FIP/ 2.14 ERA 3.40 FIP
Eduardo 8.59 ERA 6.93 FIP/ 2.52 ERA 3.40 FIP
Clay Buchholz 6.24 ERA 5.83 FIP/ 3.74 ERA 4.33 FIP
I am excluding Wright because as a knuckleballer I am unsure what if anything Bannister could do with him, and Drew since he joined post Bannister
How much credit goes to Bannister and how much to other factors? No idea
Pitcher Pre-Bannister / Post Bannister
David Price 4.64 ERA 3.50 FIP/ 2.79 ERA 3.34 FIP
Rick Porcello 3.82 ERA 3.86 FIP/ 2.14 ERA 3.40 FIP
Eduardo 8.59 ERA 6.93 FIP/ 2.52 ERA 3.40 FIP
Clay Buchholz 6.24 ERA 5.83 FIP/ 3.74 ERA 4.33 FIP
I am excluding Wright because as a knuckleballer I am unsure what if anything Bannister could do with him, and Drew since he joined post Bannister
How much credit goes to Bannister and how much to other factors? No idea
One could ask the same question as to why they underperformed their FIP pre Bannister?