Given how BB was answering questions last fall about what would happen if Jimmy performed great - would Brady get his job back - I heartily disagree.And I’m willing to bet a lot of money that Kraft made BB keep Brady and BB wanted to keep Jimmy.
It’s not that we don’t appreciate Brady, it’s that we’re Patriots fans first, Brady fans second. We maybe have 3-4 more years of Brady whereas Jimmy should be around for at least 3x that. You’re way overreacting.Given how BB was answering questions last fall about what would happen if Jimmy performed great - would Brady get his job back - I heartily disagree.
I find it stunning that anyone would rather have JG on the team than Brady right now. Just completely stunning. Fuck this fan base sometimes. They don’t deserve Brady.
To be fair, the fan base has been conditioned by the coach to not get too attached to players. We've had to adjust to his year too early vs year too late mentality and it's proven correct over and over.Given how BB was answering questions last fall about what would happen if Jimmy performed great - would Brady get his job back - I heartily disagree.
I find it stunning that anyone would rather have JG on the team than Brady right now. Just completely stunning. Fuck this fan base sometimes. They don’t deserve Brady.
Kraft has gone on record many, many times saying he leaves all football decisions up to BB.And I’m willing to bet a lot of money that Kraft made BB keep Brady and BB wanted to keep Jimmy.
Co-sign. Brady won the damn Super Bowl MVP earlier this year and will probably win the MVP this season, but Jimmy G had three good games so fuck off Tommy.Given how BB was answering questions last fall about what would happen if Jimmy performed great - would Brady get his job back - I heartily disagree.
I find it stunning that anyone would rather have JG on the team than Brady right now. Just completely stunning. Fuck this fan base sometimes. They don’t deserve Brady.
Three times that, maybe, but there's no guarantee that he will ever win a Super Bowl or be as close to winning a Super Bowl as this team is right now. It's not just about loyalty, it's about taking the bird in the hand. I'm high on Garoppolo but most likely, Jimmy GQ will never be as good as TB12 is right now.It’s not that we don’t appreciate Brady, it’s that we’re Patriots fans first, Brady fans second. We maybe have 3-4 more years of Brady whereas Jimmy should be around for at least 3x that. You’re way overreacting.
Of course he won’t be. No one will be. But would you take repeated likely playoff appearances and subsequent shots at the SB over the next decade or maybe, maybe, one or two more SB now with Brady?Co-sign. Brady won the damn Super Bowl MVP earlier this year and will probably win the MVP this season, but Jimmy G had three good games so fuck off Tommy.
Three times that, maybe, but there's no guarantee that he will ever win a Super Bowl or be as close to winning a Super Bowl as this team is right now. It's not just about loyalty, it's about taking the bird in the hand. I'm high on Garoppolo but most likely, Jimmy GQ will never be as good as TB12 is right now.
And yet, sooner or later it will come to an end with Brady at the helm. If it all comes toppling down quicker because of Guerrero, than fuck that dude. Guerrero sounds more toxic than Don King.While I am at it fuck the NE media and trolls like Ben Volin. No one wants this run to end
He didn't want to trade him. That doesn't mean, as every asshole conspiracy theorist is proposing, that Bill wanted to trade Brady either. I think he wanted both and tried to make something work out. And it didn't.And Bill gushed over Jimmy when they traded him. I can’t remember that ever happening before. It was in that moment that I thought to myself, “I don’t think he wanted to trade him.”
Except that's not what anyone is saying. What they are saying is that trading the leading candidate for the MVP to keep a guy who had played 1.5 games of football is borderline insane. Which is probably why Bill didn't do that.FWIW, and I’m not the type of person to call anyone “dumb” here because I’ve seen just about everyone on SoSH make both dumb and great posts, but if you think that trading a great 40-year-old QB to keep a really good 26-year-old QB makes you a bad fan of the former, then you’re making a totally dumb and unfair argument.
Fair enough. Don’t get me wrong: I’m happy having 12. But if push came to shove and I were an all-world talent-evaluator GM, and my incredible talent as a player evaluator led me to truly believe Jimmy could turn into a very good QB for the next decade...I’d be trading 12.He didn't want to trade him. That doesn't mean, as every asshole conspiracy theorist is proposing, that Bill wanted to trade Brady either. I think he wanted both and tried to make something work out. And it didn't.
It's not hard to imagine that Bill was probably disappointed in the same way we are disappointed when he had to trade Jimmy: because it meant that when Brady is done, this run is probably done as well.
But fuck all that noise. Let's keep this run going.
Worth noting, BTW, that both Brady and BB are saying the same thing to the media right now about anonymous sources and this story. So ... they probably are coordinating their response to this. Which is a good thing.
Of course I don't 100% expect Brady to win another, probably not even 50%. But they have a great shot this year, probably next year, maybe the year after that, then who knows. If you asked me to guess which of them wins more Super Bowls in the next 10 years, I'd guess Brady, even though he probably won't play like six of those years, and I don't think it's close.Of course he won’t be. No one will be. But would you take repeated likely playoff appearances and subsequent shots at the SB over the next decade or maybe, maybe, one or two more SB now with Brady?
We can’t assume either would win another from this point forward. You’re basically saying you 100% expect Brady to win another, and if he does, that justifies trading another decade of above-average QB play.
That's not how it works. I'm sure Tom is injecting his HGH just like everyone else.And yet, sooner or later it will come to an end with Brady at the helm. If it all comes toppling down quicker because of Guerrero, than fuck that dude. Guerrero sounds more toxic than Don King.
Any other QB is getting creamed on this board for the same situation. Yes, Tom is a wonderboy, let’s just hope AG isn’t slipping him HGH like mickeys.
I disagree. Not when the MVP is 40 and you have a pretty young and talented team elsewhere on the roster.Except that's not what anyone is saying. What they are saying is that trading the leading candidate for the MVP to keep a guy who had played 1.5 games of football is borderline insane. Which is probably why Bill didn't do that.
This is a great point as well.Let's be clear, it's not the trade off between Brady and Jimmy, but also the haul of assets that Brady would bring back that could also help set the team up for the next decade. I'm not saying it would have been right, but it's closer than people want to believe.
There are 2 issues being conflated here:FWIW, and I’m not the type of person to call anyone “dumb” here because I’ve seen just about everyone on SoSH make both dumb and great posts, but if you think that trading a great 40-year-old QB to keep a really good 26-year-old QB makes you a bad fan of the former, then you’re making a totally dumb and unfair argument.
I don’t think your point is invalid. I just disagree. BB and Jimmy would have been pretty amazing, too, IMO. We just have two differences of opinion over something that we can’t prove either way. I’m okay with that.Of course I don't 100% expect Brady to win another, probably not even 50%. But they have a great shot this year, probably next year, maybe the year after that, then who knows. If you asked me to guess which of them wins more Super Bowls in the next 10 years, I'd guess Brady, even though he probably won't play like six of those years, and I don't think it's close.
At this point, there's no reason to expect Garoppolo to come close to winning a Super Bowl (excellent QBs like Rivers and Romo never came close). Certainly not as close as the Pats are this year. Pretty much every Super Bowl winner in the last 15-20 years has either a) gotten MVP-level production from the QB or b) had an all-time-caliber D. B) usually involves a QB on his rookie deal and Jimmy G's is up. There's no guarantee he ever gets to a), but Brady is currently there. You gotta ride this out.
You just gave me even more sads.That's not how it works. I'm sure Tom is injecting his HGH just like everyone else.
Analysis: Brady and the Patriots have a unique business relationship built off trust and the first thing to know is that his pacts have traditionally been extended/altered with two years remaining. So while it's natural to look at the spike in his salary-cap charge for 2018 and 2019 and wonder how those numbers will fit in the squad's team-building model, chances are the deal will be reworked before those cap hits ever become a factor.
What do you think Brady would have gotten back in a trade?Let's be clear, it's not the trade off between Brady and Jimmy, but also the haul of assets that Brady would bring back that could also help set the team up for the next decade. I'm not saying it would have been right, but it's closer than people want to believe.
Not likely, insanely likely. Brady is posting an MVP season with likely to finish over 30 touchdowns and a 4 to 1 ratio to interceptions. He is also throwing about 4700 yards this season. Jimmy has looked good overall but he is no brady. Jimmy would do well just to crack the top 10 this season, something I doubt he would do.There are 2 issues being conflated here:
First is the argument over who is the better bet going forward, Brady or JG. That's an argument that deserves its own thread. But this season it's likely that Brady is experiencing a better season than JG would have been.
it.
Since there is a lot of stupid and emotional posting on this thread, just want to add that this is an excellent post.Of course I don't 100% expect Brady to win another, probably not even 50%. But they have a great shot this year, probably next year, maybe the year after that, then who knows. If you asked me to guess which of them wins more Super Bowls in the next 10 years, I'd guess Brady, even though he probably won't play like six of those years, and I don't think it's close.
At this point, there's no reason to expect Garoppolo to come close to winning a Super Bowl (excellent QBs like Rivers and Romo never came close). Certainly not as close as the Pats are this year. Pretty much every Super Bowl winner in the last 15-20 years has either a) gotten MVP-level production from the QB or b) had an all-time-caliber D. B) usually involves a QB on his rookie deal and Jimmy G's is up. There's no guarantee he ever gets to a), but Brady is currently there. You gotta ride this out.
Zero chance of this, it’s crazy talk radio drivel. Belichick would leave before letting Kraft tell him player personnel moves. Belichick buys into Brady playing top level for at least another couple years, so he made the tough decision to stick with Brady. Anyone acting like this is some slam dunk is being ridiculous - if Jimmy was such a known commodity then he would have fetched well above a second round pick.And I’m willing to bet a lot of money that Kraft made BB keep Brady and BB wanted to keep Jimmy.
Apparently he would have - last year.Zero chance of this, it’s crazy talk radio drivel. Belichick would leave before letting Kraft tell him player personnel moves. Belichick buys into Brady playing top level for at least another couple years, so he made the tough decision to stick with Brady. Anyone acting like this is some slam dunk is being ridiculous - if Jimmy was such a known commodity then he would have fetched well above a second round pick.
You also have to weigh the dead money you incur if you trade Brady ($14 MM) and the probability that Garoppolo is going to be more expensive over the next few years. You likely get more in picks for Brady but the cap situation becomes worse.Let's be clear, it's not the trade off between Brady and Jimmy, but also the haul of assets that Brady would bring back that could also help set the team up for the next decade. I'm not saying it would have been right, but it's closer than people want to believe.
FWIW, I could see Kraft stepping in on Brady. I just don't think he had to because keeping him was also the right football move.I don’t think it’s crazy to say that Kraft has let BB make 99.9% of roster decisions (literally, since taking the helm) but stepped in on Brady.
I violently agree with this post.I don’t care how irrational it is, but I don’t care if they revert to the doldrums of the ‘old’ Pats, I never want to see TB wear another uniform. Ever. I don’t find that making me ‘not a true Pats fan’, I think it recognizes the run they’ve had, his part in it and acknowledging that no matter what sport or team we root for, yes, there is a face associated to it. It’s not just laundry.
Could* JG turn into a stud? Sure. But he’s played literally 4.5 games. If people think BB was going to stick around to try to extend the run another decade, they’re not only fooling themselves, they’re one of the reasons people hate us as a fan base.
People need to pump the brakes a bit. This whole thing is media bullshit.
We don’t know exactly what was offered last year and can’t pretend the insurance he provided through camp and the first 8 games had no value anyway. You are more than welcome to feel Kraft did something, but I would choose 17 years of evidence to reach a different conclusion.Apparently he would have - last year.
JG v TB is a red herring interposed by people who realize it’s really Bill Belichick v Guerrero. Which is to say the greatest coach in NFL history against a motherfucking quack who is undermining an aspect of how the GOAT HC wants the team to be run. And eff the placebo value — the guy is still a motherfucking quack.It's ok I suppose to call the whole affair media bullshit or talk radio fluff. This Brady vs. Jimmy thing, to me, is a complete no brainer. They can't pay two QBs 20 million plus each. He made the right choice. But I have to admit this whole TB12 / Svengali relationship has always made me nervous. Here's hoping it's nothing.
This 100%. In what way is Jimmy G currently better at football than Tom Brady?Given how BB was answering questions last fall about what would happen if Jimmy performed great - would Brady get his job back - I heartily disagree.
I find it stunning that anyone would rather have JG on the team than Brady right now. Just completely stunning. Fuck this fan base sometimes. They don’t deserve Brady.
It goes both ways, no. You feel one way, some people feel another way. Neither way is right, yet, and can only be proven with time. It's all up the in the air but you're acting like only your voice matters on this topic. It's not.One of the worst SoSH rebuttals is “you don’t know that” type of replies. Well, no shit. None of us know jack shit. Let’s stop pretending we’re all actual GMs with any level of material insight and acknowledge that’s it’s okay to “feel” one way about something.
I’ve said the complete opposite. I’ve stated at least once that this comes down to a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.It goes both ways, no. You feel one way, some people feel another way. Neither way is right, yet, and can only be proven with time. It's all up the in the air but you're acting like only your voice matters on this topic. It's not.
You're acting like Jimmy G is a dead lock first ballot hall of famer who gives the Pats a great chance to win multiple super bowls over the next ten years. But that isn't true, you have no idea if he's a potential super bowl winning QB. He's looked incredible over his first 6 games. But it's been 6 games.I’ve said the complete opposite. I’ve stated at least once that this comes down to a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.
You’re confusing my defense of opinions with an arguement against them that I never made.
No, that’s how you’re reading it. I’m acting like Jimmy is a talented QB that’s 14 years younger than Brady. That’s it. Everything else is hyperbole from other posters.You're acting like Jimmy G is a dead lock first ballot hall of famer who gives the Pats a great chance to win multiple super bowls over the next ten years. But that isn't true, you have no idea if he's a potential super bowl winning QB. He's looked incredible over his first 6 games. But it's been 6 games.
The number of current QBs who have won multiple SBs is very small, it consists of Brady, Ben, and Eli. Anointing Jimmy G when he's literally never come close to playing a full season is a stretch.
What Jimmy is doing with zero weapons in SF certainly warrants discussion. That is a dreadful offense not only at the skill positions but on the OL as well. Believe he was the first SF QB with back to back 300yd games since Jeff Garcia in 2000.Not likely, insanely likely. Brady is posting an MVP season with likely to finish over 30 touchdowns and a 4 to 1 ratio to interceptions. He is also throwing about 4700 yards this season. Jimmy has looked good overall but he is no brady. Jimmy would do well just to crack the top 10 this season, something I doubt he would do.
This is a great post. And I was at Jimmy's first home start. He played very well, but I would say incredible is going too far. He should have had two interceptions and the last one would have lost the game.You're acting like Jimmy G is a dead lock first ballot hall of famer who gives the Pats a great chance to win multiple super bowls over the next ten years. But that isn't true, you have no idea if he's a potential super bowl winning QB. He's looked incredible over his first 6 games. But it's been 6 games.
The number of current QBs who have won multiple SBs is very small, it consists of Brady, Ben, and Eli. Anointing Jimmy G when he's literally never come close to playing a full season is a stretch.
They are barely running the ball. He seems to be throwing like 40 times a game. He should be over 300 yards passing.What Jimmy is doing with zero weapons in SF certainly warrants discussion. That is a dreadful offense not only at the skill positions but on the OL as well. Believe he was the first SF QB with back to back 300yd games since Jeff Garcia in 2000.
I think Brady is a better fit for this NEP team but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was worse in SF than Jimmy is this year. Jimmy in NE is likely a top 10-12 QB this season.
No.They are barely running the ball. He seems to be throwing like 40 times a game. He should be over 300 yards passing.
Brady is better at football than Jimmy this year....full stop.
What was the threat? If Brady was traded wouldn't he be his meal ticket in wherever he went?He was the happiest guy in the world when Jimmy G. got traded, as the threat to his meal ticket was removed.
I think he’s implying that Brady’s production will always look (and likely be) better under BB than any other coach.What was the threat? If Brady was traded wouldn't he be his meal ticket in wherever he went?
THe only thing hyperbolic is the lament of trading him and not supplanting the odds on favorite mvp and GOAT. After five starts.No, that’s how you’re reading it. I’m acting like Jimmy is a talented QB that’s 14 years younger than Brady. That’s it. Everything else is hyperbole from other posters.
No need to apologize, I take none of it personally. I don’t think your opinion is necessarily wrong, I just disagree with it.THe only thing hyperbolic is the lament of trading him and not supplanting the odds on favorite mvp and GOAT. After five starts.
Short of a career ending injury to TB, he was never going to be the long term replacement. The timing was just wrong, just enough. It sucks and it stinks and it sucks but they were never going to franchise him to sit the bench, they were never going to trade Brady and he was never going to take the starting gig.
Anyone who ever thought otherwise is delusional. This was very much the exception that proves the rule. It is not Brady replacing Bledsoe, or cutting Milloy, etc., it’s not ‘year too early rather than too late’, it’s not hedging against him falling off a cliff. As cold and calculating as Bb and Kraft are, they are not going to dump the guy that built the franchise, that the owner calls a son, that the coach laughs about when people ask if he’s playing poorly.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to unload on you, but people need to come to grips with the fact that this run is not going to last another decade - BB isn’t going to coach much longer and the league is too balanced. Appreciate it, cause it ain’t happening forever. Brady is healthy and still the best goddam player in the league and people want to trade him, to roll the dice on Jimmy G? Fuck off.
I am sorry. I was only responding to a sentence that seemed to allude that Jimmy is better in SF than Brady would be (in SF). My reading comprehension may have been off (I am in Vegas and reading on a phone - apologize if I read the sentence wrong).No.
One.
Is.
Saying.
Jimmy’s.
Better.
Now.
The strawman’s are seriously getting out of control in this thread. Just stop with that. Read the posts and comprehend them. Interpret the words as they’re written, not your emotional reaction to them.