Celtics in 18-19

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,726
Take this for what it is worth.

Jay Triano was coaching in Phoenix for a while, and by chance I sat with a basketball Canada guy who said he spoke with Jay, when the Pistons and Marcus Morris were playing. The word from this guy (I know just a guy)was the Suns were happy to see the Morris brothers leave town. They liked the fire and scoring talent, but saw Marcus in particular as a roller coaster ride that never went as high as he thought he was going. There is always hope the right coach team mates can harness talent, but my eyes make me see this from MM with the Cs. Who knows what if any, contribution he has to the poor chemistry, but his past rep is a poor team mate.
One of my close friends from college is a massive Suns fan and has court side tickets. This is pretty much exactly what he has said about the Morris twins. I think Marcus was much more of a malcontent in Phoenix but he seems to be a front runner who becomes kind of toxic when things go bad.
The "never went as high as he thought he was going" especially rings true. If MaMo had like 10% more self awareness and acceptance of who he was a player he would be much more valuable
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,726
I was at the Blazers game, and was courtside pre-game for warmups.

The Celtics are a joyless team going through the motions. The Blazers were focused and energetic, and despite the talent disparity, controlled this game from tip to buzzer. The Blazers consistently played to their strengths: Their two amazing little guards, and their perceived post up advantage with Nurcic and Kanter. Their wings filled in with gritty, opportunistic play. (Hood and Curry were garbage, and their 40 wasted combined minutes helped make this a close game).

The Celtics set offense played predominately two ways. Either they were playing a two man game with Kyrie and AL, or they were hot potato passing the ball around, turning down decent shots. Hayward is particularly guilty of this. Ar one point, he passed up an easy 8 footer to try a very difficult pass for a corner three. Tatum and Brown stand around in the corner, shoulders slumped, for much of the half court offense. The Cs got back into the game exploiting Portland's inability to cover Brown in the post, but for the last half of the fourth quarter, he (and Tatum) barely touched the ball.

The Celtics were sloppy with the ball, allowing the opportunistic Blazers to get 11 steals. I wonder if and when Stevens will get some real heat for this team's underwhelming performance. If someone who never watched a basketball game before observed last nights game, their impression might have been "Why is one team so energized and together, while the other is disjointed and just stands around, looking defeated?"
Can you explain the "joyless team" bit more? Were there any offenders that stood out more than others? Did it seem like certain players were causing the joylessness?

I find this stuff fascinating, especially from someone with that close of a view
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
I touched on the scoring issue in the gamethread in response to a valid question as to why Morris continues to get minutes despite struggling. The answer to me is because he is the Cs second best (or most consistent) scoring option.

Stevens simply doesn't have any great second options beyond Kyrie. As you note, Tatum isn't there yet and Brown, for all of his talents, may never be the guy. A healthy Hayward may yet evolve into that role - he would likely be it now were it not for his injury - but he clearly isn't at that point.
This is in essence where the chemistry issues on the floor originate in regards to players identifying their roles. We have a clear cut #1 option and everyone knows this. Then we have four or five 3rd/4th types who are all trying to be the #2 scoring option rather than each player on the floor recognizing that the 1 and 2 are the guys you run plays for and look to when the shot clock gets under 10 while understanding when/where to be spotting up, screening, and doing other things to help the 1/2 do the primary scoring. Nobody is doing these "little things" as 3/4/5 scoring options as they are all actively looking to be part of the 1/2 on any given possession with so much money at stake for them to put up production numbers.

These things don't get fixed by a coach changing rotations as the personnel remains the same. To me this has never been a Brad issue (and nobody screamed of him being overrated over the years more than me)…...and always a Danny roster construction issue. I also touched upon this in the Kyrie poll "with or without" thread.
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I was at the Blazers game, and was courtside pre-game for warmups.

The Blazers were focused and energetic, and despite the talent disparity, controlled this game from tip to buzzer.
What talent disparity? People overrate the talent on Boston.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,900
This is in essence where the chemistry issues on the floor originate in regards to players identifying their roles. We have a clear cut #1 option and everyone knows this. Then we have four or five 3rd/4th types who are all trying to be the #2 scoring option rather than each player on the floor recognizing that the 1 and 2 are the guys you run plays for and look to when the shot clock gets under 10 while understanding when/where to be spotting up, screening, and doing other things to help the 1/2 do the primary scoring. Nobody is doing these "little things" as 3/4/5 scoring options as they are all actively looking to be part of the 1/2 on any given possession with so much money at stake for them to put up production numbers.

These things don't get fixed by a coach changing rotations as the personnel remains the same. To me this has never been a Brad issue (and nobody screamed of him being overrated over the years more than me)…...and always a Danny roster construction issue. I also touched upon this in the Kyrie poll "with or without" thread.
As I said above, the Cs don't really have a #2 scoring option. JT was supposed to be that guy but he isn't there yet. And I don't think that's because he doesn't get touches. It's just because he's 20.
 

Red Averages

owes you $50
SoSH Member
Apr 20, 2003
9,220
Take this for what it is worth.

Jay Triano was coaching in Phoenix for a while, and by chance I sat with a basketball Canada guy who said he spoke with Jay, when the Pistons and Marcus Morris were playing. The word from this guy (I know just a guy)was the Suns were happy to see the Morris brothers leave town. They liked the fire and scoring talent, but saw Marcus in particular as a roller coaster ride that never went as high as he thought he was going. There is always hope the right coach team mates can harness talent, but my eyes make me see this from MM with the Cs. Who knows what if any, contribution he has to the poor chemistry, but his past rep is a poor team mate.
Let's not forget Jackie MacMullan's fantastic piece on the Morris brothers mental health during this period. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24393541/jackie-macmullan-complex-issue-mental-health-nba-african-american-community
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
As I said above, the Cs don't really have a #2 scoring option. JT was supposed to be that guy but he isn't there yet. And I don't think that's because he doesn't get touches. It's just because he's 20.
I agree with you. I think it is also because he's fighting with 4 other players for those "number 2" touches as well.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,848
I agree with you. I think it is also because he's fighting with 4 other players for those "number 2" touches as well.
He is also attempting more shots from what some might term a sub-optimal distance this season. Last year his the percentage of his shots from three feet to sixteen feet was just over 20%. This year he is shooting over 25% of his shots from there. He has been better around the rim out to 10 feet but from 10 feet and out beyond the arc, his shooting % has fallen off, particularly for deep mid-ranges and threes.

I don't know whether his declining outside shooting is a function of fighting for touches, his increased volume, Kobe's tutelage, his age or simply because the league now has a book on him. I am willing to bet its a bit of all of the above.

I know someone suggested finding another big as Baynes insurance but it would be nice the Celtics could find one more decent shooter. It would be fine to have even an offense-only guy who can come in and generate looks for themselves and others. Unfortunately March 1st is the deadline for players to retain playoff eligibility and there really isn't anyone compelling out there unless you consider Ben McLemore a viable reclamation project. Or maybe Omri Casspi but he is recovering from surgery for a torn meniscus so he is probably a longshot too.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,557

Rozier is going to be a starting 1 for someone next year......we should simply give up on him when he's erratic in a role he clearly isn't happy about? As much as the gamethreaders hate to hear this, Brad was never going to do this to lose Rozier when he's going to be crucial to us in the playoffs......especially to force someone else on the second unit to defend opposing 1's. Again, why do so many people want us to place our guys in positions to fail?
Yes. Because he should never be on the floor with Kyrie. He's just a backup 1.

The only guy in the rotation Kyrie has a worse net rating than he does with Rozier on the floor is Jaylen.

If you were wondering which teammate in the rotation Kyrie has his best net rating with it's, of course, Aron Baynes.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
Yes. Because he should never be on the floor with Kyrie. He's just a backup 1.

The only guy in the rotation Kyrie has a worse net rating than he does with Rozier on the floor is Jaylen.

If you were wondering which teammate in the rotation Kyrie has his best net rating with it's, of course, Aron Baynes.
This reminds me of the old Francona complaints each year during the regular season as he is winning World Series Championships in October. Brad is not coaching this team to optimize every minute or even every game during the regular season which is what some here are commenting on assuming that he is. He isn't. Brad's minute distribution and lineups in the spring will not resemble what we are seeing during these 82-games. He doesn't give a rats ass about the Kyrie/Rozier net rating in the regular season if getting Rozier a few extra minutes each night keeps him engaged enough to be a productive "backup 1" in the playoffs which is what really matters.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,477
Santa Monica
This is in essence where the chemistry issues on the floor originate in regards to players identifying their roles. We have a clear cut #1 option and everyone knows this. Then we have four or five 3rd/4th types who are all trying to be the #2 scoring option rather than each player on the floor recognizing that the 1 and 2 are the guys you run plays for and look to when the shot clock gets under 10 while understanding when/where to be spotting up, screening, and doing other things to help the 1/2 do the primary scoring. Nobody is doing these "little things" as 3/4/5 scoring options as they are all actively looking to be part of the 1/2 on any given possession with so much money at stake for them to put up production numbers.
.
Agreed.

If Brad could only find a guy(s) that do the "little things" like:
1. play good team defense
2. protect the rim
3. take charges in the paint
3. rebound
4. hustle back on defense in transition
5. set physical screens for our #1/2/3 scoring options
6. set pick/rolls for our ball handling #1 scoring option
7. defer from taking stupid shots
8. would never consider himself a top 3 scoring option
9. would be average-good FT/3pt shooters
10. would lead the team in advanced net ratings

Then Brad could play that player(s) 20-25mpg right?

Terry Rozier
Aron Baynes
Daniel Theis
 
Last edited:

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,900
Agreed.

If Brad could only find a guy(s) that do the "little things" like:
1. play good team defense
2. protect the rim
3. take charges in the paint
3. rebound
4. hustle back on defense in transition
5. set physical screens for our #1/2/3 scoring options
6. set pick/rolls for our ball handling #1 scoring option
7. defer from taking stupid shots
8. would never consider himself a top 3 scoring option
9. would be average-good FT/3pt shooters
10. would lead the team in advanced net ratings

Then Brad could play that player(s) 20-25mpg right?

Terry Rozier
Aron Baynes
Daniel Theis
I can't believe Brad isn't playing Baynes more. That's a real error in my book.



:unsure::drums:
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
I can't believe Brad isn't playing Baynes more. That's a real error in my book.



:unsure::drums:
I'm looking forward to his return Monday against Houston so we can hear how Brad is mismanaging his roster by not playing Horford at the 4 so our best rim protector can chase PJ Tucker around 25 feet from the basket.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,271
I'll once again point out that Baynes was starting to see more minutes on a more regular basis until he got hurt again.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,477
Santa Monica
I'm looking forward to his return Monday against Houston so we can hear how Brad is mismanaging his roster by not playing Horford at the 4 so our best rim protector can chase PJ Tucker around 25 feet from the basket.
yea, PJ Tucker is an offensive savant that would torch Al Horford:eyeroll:

YES It's much, much better to have MaMo or Rozier pound the ball, chuck and jog back on D
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,609
around the way
One of the best things about Baynes returning is not talking about how much we miss Baynes.

In all seriousness, having someone who can take charges and block shots, when Rozier, Kyrie, or Morris' guy saunters down the lane right past them won't hurt. I love Theis, but he's mini Baynes with a worse shot. And Al is gonna die with all of the defensive load on him. Actually looking forward to this a lot.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
He was often exceeding 20 mpg starting around late November, aside from the 2nd half of back-to-back games. He's also been hurt quite a bit this season.
Many of those games were blowout wins. Of the recent games prior to reinjuring himself one was a 20-pt blowout over Cleveland and the other vs Memphis when it makes sense to run him with Horford in certain spots.

There is good reason why many limited bugs have tremendous peripherals and it is that their usage is managed to keep them out of bad matchups. We saw Doc do with this Powe and Big Baby for several years. It is what Brad does with Baynes and same as what other skilled coaches do to put their players in the best situations to succeed. Horford chasing around wings is not putting him or the team in the best position to succeed......it’s kinda hard not to see how this cannot be clear.
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
It's too bad this team didn't have the salary or pieces to waste on Vucevic, especially if it meant getting rid of Rozier.

He's one of those players where people have a certain opinion on him but it's probably an outdated one. I think he would have been a great fit here (at least offensively) and would be getting close to 30 minutes a night.

I know lots of people don't like the guy at all but I'm really not sure why that's the case anymore. He has modernized his game adding a reliable 3 point shot and becoming a much improved passer. I have noticed big men around the league averaging more assists than in years past, and a lot of those are Euro's. So maybe he isn't a much improved passer/play maker and it's just a skill NBA teams are utilizing more.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,848
It's too bad this team didn't have the salary or pieces to waste on Vucevic, especially if it meant getting rid of Rozier.

He's one of those players where people have a certain opinion on him but it's probably an outdated one. I think he would have been a great fit here (at least offensively) and would be getting close to 30 minutes a night.

I know lots of people don't like the guy at all but I'm really not sure why that's the case anymore. He has modernized his game adding a reliable 3 point shot and becoming a much improved passer. I have noticed big men around the league averaging more assists than in years past, and a lot of those are Euro's. So maybe he isn't a much improved passer/play maker and it's just a skill NBA teams are utilizing more.
I love Vucevic and think he would be a great fit this year. The problem is that his success/AS appearance (first Magic player to appear in the AS game in six seasons)and the Magic being in the hunt probably made the asking price too costly at the deadline.

As such Rozier alone wouldn't have gotten it done and I think Celtics fans would have stormed Danny's office if he dealt away any draft assets for a UFA who simply isn't well known and is just another middle tier rotation player. And he is likely to get paid a lot this summer so unless he is your plan B in lieu of Davis, he isn't a great fit going forward.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,477
Santa Monica
Many of those games were blowout wins. Of the recent games prior to reinjuring himself one was a 20-pt blowout over Cleveland and the other vs Memphis when it makes sense to run him with Horford in certain spots.

There is good reason why many limited bugs have tremendous peripherals and it is that their usage is managed to keep them out of bad matchups. We saw Doc do with this Powe and Big Baby for several years. It is what Brad does with Baynes and same as what other skilled coaches do to put their players in the best situations to succeed. Horford chasing around wings is not putting him or the team in the best position to succeed......it’s kinda hard not to see how this cannot be clear.
Again for the 5th time, False. You keep trying and it's flat out wrong.

Glen Davis started 31 games for the Celtics in his 4 seasons there.
Leon Powe started 14 games for the Celtics in his 3 seasons there.
Aron Baynes started 67 games in his first season with the Celtics.

So Powe & Davis 7 seasons combined, they started fewer games then Aron Baynes did in his initial season. Their usage is nothing alike, you're incorrect. You want to compare Davis & Powe to Daniel Theis you may have a case, and I'd be fine with Theis being used like them.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,557
I'm looking forward to his return Monday against Houston so we can hear how Brad is mismanaging his roster by not playing Horford at the 4 so our best rim protector can chase PJ Tucker around 25 feet from the basket.
Are you serious? Horford isn't their best rim protector.

And my mom could chase PJ Tucker around 25 feet from the basket. Very worried about a guy who puts up less than 7 shots a game while playing 35 minutes.

Many of those games were blowout wins. Of the recent games prior to reinjuring himself one was a 20-pt blowout over Cleveland and the other vs Memphis when it makes sense to run him with Horford in certain spots.

There is good reason why many limited bugs have tremendous peripherals and it is that their usage is managed to keep them out of bad matchups. We saw Doc do with this Powe and Big Baby for several years. It is what Brad does with Baynes and same as what other skilled coaches do to put their players in the best situations to succeed. Horford chasing around wings is not putting him or the team in the best position to succeed......it’s kinda hard not to see how this cannot be clear.
So now you've moved to calling power forwards "wings"?

Good grief. Your absolute certainty in every one of your opinions, going as far as to twist Al playing the 4 sometimes into he's now guarding wings, is really frustrating.
 
Last edited:

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
Again for the 5th time, False. You keep trying and it's flat out wrong.

Glen Davis started 31 games for the Celtics in his 4 seasons there.
Leon Powe started 14 games for the Celtics in his 3 seasons there.
Aron Baynes started 67 games in his first season with the Celtics.

So Powe & Davis 7 seasons combined, they started fewer games then Aron Baynes did in his initial season. Their usage is nothing alike, you're incorrect. You want to compare Davis & Powe to Daniel Theis you may have a case, and I'd be fine with Theis being used like them.
Their usage was spotted for them not to be overexposed against bad matchups. Sure, Baynes started all those games last year when we were decimated with injuries but that was NEVER the plan entering the season nor was it moving forward.......and Brad STILL spotted him only 18 mpg due to matchups favoring Horford at his natural 5 position. Doc actually played Davis MORE minutes than Baynes in each of his seasons so really it was Brad being MORE protective of Baynes’ matchups. Powe played similar minutes as Baynes.

This year teams continue to go smaller yet you haven’t adjusted your position as the game has changed.


Are you serious? Horford isn't their best rim protector.

And my mom could chase PJ Tucker around 25 feet from the basket. Very worried about a guy who puts up less than 7 shots a game while playing 35 minutes.



So now you've moved to calling power forwards "wings"?

Good grief. Your absolute certainty in every one of your opinions, going as far as to twist Al playing the 4 sometimes into he's now guarding wings, is really frustrating.
Yes because most of this years 4’s are playing as traditional 3’s or 3/4’s and not as 4’s or 4/5’s. It’s happening like every game we play do you not see the floor spaced with small 4’s? Tonight, for example, the Wizards start two stretchy 4’s at the 4/5 in Portis and Ariza. The other night Houston started 4 perimeter players and a 5.

I mean if you have an opinion you should feel certain about it, no? I’ve changed my opinion when shown I was incorrect in the past I don’t feel this is one of those times. Sorry if it comes across as obtuse but that wasn’t my intent.
 
Last edited:

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,557
Yes because most of this years 4’s are playing as traditional 3’s or 3/4’s and not as 4’s or 4/5’s. It’s happening like every game we play do you not see the floor spaced with small 4’s? Tonight, for example, the Wizards start two stretchy 4’s at the 4/5 in Portis and Ariza. The other night Houston started 4 perimeter players and a 5.

I mean if you have an opinion you should feel certain about it, no? I’ve changed my opinion when shown I was incorrect in the past I don’t feel this is one of those times. Sorry if it comes across as obtuse but that wasn’t my intent.
Pointing out the exceptions does not make the rule. Again, I count about 20 starting PFs that were also starting PFs last year. If Horford could handle the exact same guys last year, why would it be impossible for him to do so this year? Did they all get much quicker, and Horford much slower, in the course of one year?
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,903
I swear the shooters on this team all have a tic that makes them take shots that aren't in rhythm. Tatum is the worst offender. They shot 28% from 3 last night which is a continuation of the three point slump that they're in and I think part of that is that, yes, they're getting open looks but they aren't taking those open looks in rhythm e.g. guy catches the pass and instead of fluidly going right up for the shot there's a small hesitation/flinch as if they might pass before they eventually huck a brick.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,348
I swear the shooters on this team all have a tic that makes them take shots that aren't in rhythm. Tatum is the worst offender. They shot 28% from 3 last night which is a continuation of the three point slump that they're in and I think part of that is that, yes, they're getting open looks but they aren't taking those open looks in rhythm e.g. guy catches the pass and instead of fluidly going right up for the shot there's a small hesitation/flinch as if they might pass before they eventually huck a brick.
I see this too and it definitely looks like a team lacking confidence in the game plan and each other.

Am I shooting too much? Is this the right shot? Should I move the ball more?

Then it can swing the opposite way: I gotta make something happen! I’m a leader too! And we get things like Smart’s off-balance wild three that pissed away the Blazers game (which, admittedly, they deserved to lose anyway).

Lots of second-guessing, followed by hero ball, resulting in a team with little confidence and no identity.
 

mostman

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2003
18,872
I see this too and it definitely looks like a team lacking confidence in the game plan and each other.

Am I shooting too much? Is this the right shot? Should I move the ball more?

Then it can swing the opposite way: I gotta make something happen! I’m a leader too! And we get things like Smart’s off-balance wild three that pissed away the Blazers game (which, admittedly, they deserved to lose anyway).

Lots of second-guessing, followed by hero ball, resulting in a team with little confidence and no identity.
Rozier is a perfect example of this. I dump on the guy a lot, but an open 15 footer is an open 15 footer. Last night I could practically hear him thinking, “I’ll get yelled at if I take this shot. So I’ll just dribble it into the floor instead.”
 

Just a bit outside

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2011
8,044
Monument, CO
I swear the shooters on this team all have a tic that makes them take shots that aren't in rhythm. Tatum is the worst offender. They shot 28% from 3 last night which is a continuation of the three point slump that they're in and I think part of that is that, yes, they're getting open looks but they aren't taking those open looks in rhythm e.g. guy catches the pass and instead of fluidly going right up for the shot there's a small hesitation/flinch as if they might pass before they eventually huck a brick.
This is spot on. It seems I am constantly yelling at my tv for them to shoot the ball and then they end up with a more contested shot later in the possession. JT is definitely the worst offender.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,221
This is spot on. It seems I am constantly yelling at my tv for them to shoot the ball and then they end up with a more contested shot later in the possession. JT is definitely the worst offender.
Last night he was behind the arc, pumped faked his man perfectly, and did what we’ve all been yelling at him to do all year - side step to remain in 3-point range instead of dribbling forward for a long 2-pointer. Set himself up perfectly for an open 3.

Then he just passed it to Morris who took a 3 instead.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,609
around the way
Last night he was behind the arc, pumped faked his man perfectly, and did what we’ve all been yelling at him to do all year - side step to remain in 3-point range instead of dribbling forward for a long 2-pointer. Set himself up perfectly for an open 3.

Then he just passed it to Morris who took a 3 instead.
That was a good play.

What everyone is saying here is true overall however. Brad explicitly doesn't complain about shot choices in order to avoid this type of indecision. Unfortunately the players are doing it to each other.

Lack of rhythm is coming from the lack of identity or incomplete role clarity.

Fwiw, I saw glimmers of hope from the first quarter. The first 8 minutes were dominant on both ends for the good guys. I'll skip my usual rant about it falling apart when a certain player checked in.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,827
I loved the defensive energy from Brown in the Wiz game. It actually got some of his teammates amped up, and they actually played some high energy defense too.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,554
deep inside Guido territory
At least Semi gets it.

"In the middle of the huddle stood a furious Semi Ojeleye, repeatedly hollering four words at his Celtics teammates.

“Wake the fuck up,” the second-year pro shouted.

Ojeleye rarely addresses his team in such a manner. A second-round pick in 2017, he only sees rotation minutes now on certain nights. It’s not always his place to be the loudest voice in the room. But when he looked out at the Celtics on Sunday afternoon he saw the same issues everyone else did: A team cratering when it desperately needed to come together, farting out another miserable performance after a stretch full of them. He thought ahead to the rest of the regular season, to the playoff hopes, to a dream shriveling in front of him.

“I don’t normally do that, but I felt like we were kind of splitting apart,” Ojeleye said during a quiet moment at his locker. “And I think we have to try to change it. I mean, the season’s wasting away. In the NBA teams are only together for so long. So it’s time to change it.”

Ojeleye’s outburst arrived 55 seconds into the third quarter, with the Celtics trailing the Rockets 71-43 in a nationally-televised game. Brad Stevens had called a timeout almost instantly after his team lost Eric Gordon on back-to-back possessions – two egregious defensive miscues after he had scored 20 first-half points for Houston. Like they have too often lately, the Celtics were giving off the stench of a team that has no interest in playing together and no desire to fight through rough patches. They were bickering with each other, showing disjointed effort in closeout situations and suffering regular defensive breakdowns.

So Ojeleye issued a challenge. It wasn’t just a shot at the Celtics’ current state, but an attempt to salvage whatever they can become.

“Making or missing shots isn’t going to determine our wins or losses,” he said. “It’s really about effort right now. And I was just trying to tell guys to wake up. The look on everybody’s faces was like we already lost the game, and it was the start of the third quarter.

“It’s been tough (for the Celtics lately) because the reason you play basketball is to be a part of a group, a second family, a group of brothers. I think right now we’re struggling to find that in each other. And I think when we do – because we’re definitely capable of it, we’ve shown it at times – I think everything will come together.”

https://theathletic.com/848508/2019/03/03/semi-ojeleye-on-reeling-celtics-the-seasons-wasting-away-its-time-to-change-it/
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,827
Semi's a great 10/11 guy on the team, like a Leon Powe
The Celtics are 14-5 when Semi plays 12 minutes or more, 9-2 when he plays 16 minutes or more. Not a huge sample size, but on a team where players are struggling to fulfill roles, Semi knows exactly what he needs to do when he gets in the game- try to consistently put his chiseled body in front of the other team's best wing, and make opportunistic plays on offense the few times they arise.

He's improved offensively from his rookie season. After missing half his shot at the rim his rookie year, he's now hitting an exceptional 80% at the tin (on only 30 attempts). His three shooting is still sub-par, at .319, but his eFG, 425 last season, is up to .521, higher than Baynes, Tatum, Brown, GH, Rozier.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
The Celtics are 14-5 when Semi plays 12 minutes or more, 9-2 when he plays 16 minutes or more. Not a huge sample size, but on a team where players are struggling to fulfill roles, Semi knows exactly what he needs to do when he gets in the game- try to consistently put his chiseled body in front of the other team's best wing, and make opportunistic plays on offense the few times they arise.
Let's put this stat in its proper context and point out the reason WHY Semi is playing 12 or more minutes in these games. These 14 wins include Celtic victories of 29, 18, 33, 56, 21, 16, 21, and 27 points. It does seem like Semi knows exactly what to do in these games...….run the clock out while the bus is getting warm.

Semi looks like 1 of 100 or 200 other young borderline NBA players in this league who may or may not find a niche in the next few years as younger prospects come up through the ranks. If we are looking to compete for a Championship he isn't likely going to ever be a factor in us doing so.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,827
Let's put this stat in its proper context and point out the reason WHY Semi is playing 12 or more minutes in these games. These 14 wins include Celtic victories of 29, 18, 33, 56, 21, 16, 21, and 27 points. It does seem like Semi knows exactly what to do in these games...….run the clock out while the bus is getting warm.

Semi looks like 1 of 100 or 200 other young borderline NBA players in this league who may or may not find a niche in the next few years as younger prospects come up through the ranks. If we are looking to compete for a Championship he isn't likely going to ever be a factor in us doing so.
People are clamoring for role playing on the Celtics. I point out that they have a guy on the roster that has been effective as a role player. The point isn't whether Semi is like 100 other guys in the league, but that he can fill a role on this team.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
36,159
People are clamoring for role playing on the Celtics. I point out that they have a guy on the roster that has been effective as a role player. The point isn't whether Semi is like 100 other guys in the league, but that he can fill a role on this team.
I think HRB’s point is that Semi’s main role has been eating minutes in blowouts. Maybe you’re right that Semi can defend good opposing wings, but Brad hasn’t seen fit to give him much run in that role in meaningful situations.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,481
I think HRB’s point is that Semi’s main role has been eating minutes in blowouts. Maybe you’re right that Semi can defend good opposing wings, but Brad hasn’t seen fit to give him much run in that role in meaningful situations.
Yes that was my point. The other thing is that most young players aren't capable of being trusted to provide quality role player minutes which is why championship level teams design their bench with primarily veterans. Semi was pretty bad last year when multiple injuries forced him to play so I surely wouldn't be entrusting this player in any role on my team. After he leaves Boston maybe he'll get an opportunity for minutes on a lottery team as a platform for him to improve and grow.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,900
This could go in about five different threads but I'll it here because of the long view. KOC with his state of the Cs here: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/3/4/18249721/boston-celtics-kyrie-irving-brad-stevens-crisis. There's a lot of interesting stuff in here but here's one part that stood out to me (particularly given the conversations being had over the multiple threads):

I spent some time around the team over the past few days, in Boston. After Friday’s win against the Wizards, all you could hear was the thud of Semi Ojeleye’s weights hitting the floor behind a closed door next to the Celtics locker room. Besides a short conversation between Irving and Rozier, everyone in the locker room was quiet. According to various team reporters, it’s been like that all year, no matter if the team wins or loses. Morris said earlier this month that “it’s not fun” this season, which is so unlike what I witnessed being around the team for half of last season. The locker room was always active, and the bench was always engaged during games. There was high-fiving and communication. Now, players won’t always even jump off the bench during big moments. They seem like a bunch of guys that are looking forward to their summer vacations.

* * * *

For answers, you have to ask the guy who hates being asked questions: Kyrie Irving. “At this point in my career, it’s not necessarily about my skills or my talent. It’s more about how do I echo greatness to our group every single day and figure out what that looks like for us. That’s been the biggest challenge for me,” Irving said in December. At that point, he was playing with consistent defensive effort, fighting through screens and closing out hard. In the locker room and in huddles, Irving was enthusiastic and encouraging. But as the trade deadline approached, something changed.


These days, Irving plays lackadaisical defense, and unfocused offense. Sources around the team told me that Irving’s persona has changed, too: He’s become disengaged and detached from those around the team. There is talk that Irving’s friendships on the team start and end with Tatum, with whom he shares an agent. Two sources peg Irving’s change in demeanor to early February, around the time he was asked about the possibility of joining the New York Knicks next season. That’s when Irving infamously said he’d make the best decision for his family, and that he didn’t “
owe anybody shit.” This induced panic among Boston fans. After all, it was a much different tune than the one he was singing in October 2018, when Irving told a gathering of Celtics season-ticket holders that he intended to re-sign with the team (multiple sources say that same commitment was expressed to his teammates).
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,903
People are clamoring for role playing on the Celtics. I point out that they have a guy on the roster that has been effective as a role player. The point isn't whether Semi is like 100 other guys in the league, but that he can fill a role on this team.
At least he'll go out there and give it all he's got where Morris will just ass drag through his 18 - 30 minutes. With Brad's track record of getting average talent to overachieve and conversely failing to get the best out of vets I really don't see a huge downside in getting a rough around the edges energy guy some more minutes. At this point; why not?
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
36,159
At least he'll go out there and give it all he's got where Morris will just ass drag through his 18 - 30 minutes. With Brad's track record of getting average talent to overachieve and conversely failing to get the best out of vets I really don't see a huge downside in getting a rough around the edges energy guy some more minutes. At this point; why not?
Because he can’t close on a jump shooter for shit — good NBA wings will shoot over Semi like he isn’t there. Even a less-than-motivated MaMo is a better option.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,221
Two sources peg Irving’s change in demeanor to early February, around the time he was asked about the possibility of joining the New York Knicks next season.
I guess what I don’t get about this is that the team hasn’t been playing good, team-centric basketball since well before early February. So I have trouble attributing the frustrating play to Kyrie’s mood suddenly changing a month or so ago.