I think you could absolutely cut Bolden if there is a better option in the 3rd/4th round and the opportunity presents itself.Dogman2 said:
2014 FA: Building 19 Opened for Bizzness
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I'd be disappointed in a RB taken in the first four rounds - Ridley & Vereen have large roles to play, a veteran (Blount or MJD) will arrive and Bolden is serviceable.
Next year, absolutely. It's pretty much a given that a rookie RB can contribute more quickly than can a rookie WR, given the amount of knowledge/familiarity with the offense each position requires.
Of course, if they can somehow trade Ridley for a 4th round pick, I'd be cool with using that on someone who doesn't scare the shit out me every time he touches the ball. (yes, overreaction, yes, he's not that bad, yes, I'm trying to forestall the "but ridley doesn't actually fumble that much!" conversation from happening yet again)
Next year, absolutely. It's pretty much a given that a rookie RB can contribute more quickly than can a rookie WR, given the amount of knowledge/familiarity with the offense each position requires.
Of course, if they can somehow trade Ridley for a 4th round pick, I'd be cool with using that on someone who doesn't scare the shit out me every time he touches the ball. (yes, overreaction, yes, he's not that bad, yes, I'm trying to forestall the "but ridley doesn't actually fumble that much!" conversation from happening yet again)
soxfan121 said:
Yeah, that's where I am. I think I would be disappointed too but understand, as both Red and ElCab point out, that there may be a value pick at one of those slots. Heck, perhaps the compensatory 4th rounder could be used.
I like the idea of Ridley for a 4th too. I hope he retains his value this season and doesn't fumble away his chances.
Regarding your parenthetical, WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING YOURSELF???!?
I see you're busy in other threads and didn't want to add to your workload.
ETA: I put the chances of a Ridley contract extension much lower than a potential Vereen extension. And it's not just the ball security issues. I think Vereen does more things - pass catching most obviously but he has shown flashes of being effective as a runner and he seems to be the better of the two at blitz pickup. Vereen's obvious issue is his health. Ridley, OTOH, doesn't do much in the passing game; not exactly one-dimensional but limited. Of course, he's largely been healthy.
ETA: I put the chances of a Ridley contract extension much lower than a potential Vereen extension. And it's not just the ball security issues. I think Vereen does more things - pass catching most obviously but he has shown flashes of being effective as a runner and he seems to be the better of the two at blitz pickup. Vereen's obvious issue is his health. Ridley, OTOH, doesn't do much in the passing game; not exactly one-dimensional but limited. Of course, he's largely been healthy.
soxfan121 said:
Is this really true when you take pass protection into account? A lot of rookie backs can't be trusted because they don't pick up the blitz well.
phragle said:
I think it is closer than you think - but I do agree Vereen is more likely of the two to get the extension. And his injury history might make him more affordable, long term. I have no info, but I have to assume Ridley's agent trumpets the thousand yard season and health and the Patriots decide the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Dogman2 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHSkMwUa2i4
Dogman2 said:
It's not the injuries or the fumbles that make me say that. It's that players like Vereen are much harder to find than players like Ridely.
That's why Darren Sproles was traded for and extended, and Blount is still available.
Not sure Ridley's health is something to brag about. That Pollard hit in the playoffs would have caused him to miss a lot of time if the season didn't end.soxfan121 said:
MalzoneExpress said:
There are guys who are good enough to be trusted. They just have different warts. All RB, except Adrian Peterson, have some kind of flaw. Giovanni Bernard was a RB in last year's draft who was advertised as having good blitz pickup skills and (by my eye, which is flawed) he seemed like he did a good job of it.
A lot of guys you can't trust as a rookie can't be trusted ever.
Using a 4th on a running back seems fine to me, neither Ridley or Vereen played a lot as rookies and giving big money to running backs is generally silly, so drafting someone with a mid round pick and letting them learn for a year seems fine.
4th rounder is probably the market for Ridley, but seems like a terrible trade to me. I think there's more value letting him play out his rookie contract then taking a potential comp pick.
4th rounder is probably the market for Ridley, but seems like a terrible trade to me. I think there's more value letting him play out his rookie contract then taking a potential comp pick.
It's a little weird to me that you'd be fine with a 3rd/4th next year, but not this year. In that range, you can't bank on rookie contributions anyway (our 2013 4th was Boyce; our 2012 3rd was Bequette). I don't think they should reach for a RB if the value's not there, but I see some intriguing options and would be happy with it if there is someone they like.soxfan121 said:
That has to do with quality more than type - Sproles is an amazing player, while Blount is a guy who has had like four amazing games. Danny Woodhead didn't have much of a market last year.phragle said:
Are we sure Vereen is that good, even when he's able to see the field? He's got good speed, but doesn't seem to have the quickness or YAC ability that Woodhead had. About 20% of his career receiving yards are on two plays, and he hasn't really impressed as a runner. He also had 9 drops last year in 10 games. The offense looked much better when he was playing, but that just means he's better than Bolden.
Side point but a bunch of those drops happened when he was playing with a cast on his wrist. I don't recall Vereen being prone to drops before that.Super Nomario said:
He's from the East Bay. Of course so was Jared Allen and he left several million of the Raider's dollars in the table to pin his Super Bowl hopes and dreams to Jay Cutler.Ed Hillel said:
MJD, Reece & McFadden is a nice mix. Bet the over on the Raiders, they look good for a solid 6 wins. Hell, if MJD & DMac time their injuries perfectly they might win 7 or 8.
This is what makes him so difficult to evaluate: he had 8 career catches going into 2013, then he broke his wrist early in the first game. So there's no way of knowing how much of this is the wrist and how much is bad hands.TheoShmeo said:
He is 30 and was about to be released.Super Nomario said:
No one had a good market last year.Super Nomario said:
Vereen is a dynamic player when healthy. Ridley is a premium JAG.Super Nomario said:
This is fairly flawed statement. The hit occurred in the AFC Championship. At most it would have caused him to miss a game.phragle said:
Is there anything to support the theory he wouldn't play two weeks after? Honestly, I never read anything supporting that, but then again I didn't necessarily look for such either. I could very well be way off in the severity of the injury, of which I am admittedly ignorant.
True, but he's still a special player. Certainly more special than Blount.phragle said:
That's fair.phragle said:
You have take on faith that Vereen is a dynamic player when healthy, because he was never healthy in 2013 and he had basically no body of work previously - he had played fewer than 200 snaps for his offensive career going into 2013. So far I'd say both Ridley and Vereen are premium JAGs.phragle said:
Of course he is, because he's a threat in the passing game.Super Nomario said:
I was counting 2013. Vereen is rare/valuable because he's one of the few RBs that can line up out wide and take the top off. He's arguably first in yards per catch since 2000 of all RBs with over 50 receptions. There's nothing JAG about that.Super Nomario said:
Not just a threat; Sproles is the best pass-catching back of his generation.phragle said:
A lot of that is one well-designed 83-yard catch-and-run in 2012 where the skill involved was pretty much "outrun Bart Scott." His YPR was only a little above-average last year. He's shown flashes, like his long catch against Cleveland last year and the one against Houston in the playoffs in 2012, but he's been pretty inconsistent even leaving aside the injury stuff.phragle said:
EDIT: To be clear: I don't think Vereen is a JAG. I don't think Ridley is a JAG either. You used the term "premium JAG," which is an oxymoron that I took to mean, "fine," so I applied it to both players. I think they're a fine combo to go into 2014 with, I'm just not in a rush to sign either to a long-term deal.
Super Nomario said:
He was. He's passed his prime, but still valuable to NFL GMs. It's the low supply of pass catching RBs.
Super Nomario said:
I don't care. Everyones YPC would be lower without their two longest plays, and 1-on-1 vs a LB happen all the time with third down backs.
The point i that he's much more valuable than Ridely. You can pick up a RB that's 75% of Ridley just about anywhere. You can't do the same with Vereen.
He's past his prime, but he was still 2nd in receptions and receiving yards among RBs.phragle said:
It wasn't like he burned him one-on-one (like he did against the Cleveland LB, which was a really impressive play) - they cleared out the left side of the field, he ran a little flare, and Scott got caught up in the wash running to the sideline. It was like the long Dobson TD in the Jets game this year - it's nice, but there are dozens of players who could have made the play (the Dobson play was easier, but the Vereen one was also really easy).phragle said:
These two guys are hard to evaluate. Ridley has his infrequent very negative plays (his fumbles) and Vereen has his infrequent very positive big plays. How much do you weigh those infrequent events into their overall value?phragle said:
EDIT: giving it more thought, I do agree the pass-catching skill set is more important in today's NFL. I just don't see either of these guys as a special player, at least based on what they've shown to date.
Super Nomario said:
We'll see if that continues. Brees loves his RB checkdown.
Super Nomario said:
I think if you're going to do that with Vereen you have to do it with everyone.
Super Nomario said:
They both have a lot of talent, but I think Vereen has more and his talent is harder to replace. Positionally I value him more like a WR than I do to a non-recieving RB.
Vereen is someone I want to keep around. Ridley is someone I'd like to get a pick for either in a trade or FA compensation.
In your plan do you sign Blount and add another vet or draft somebody? Who do you have in mind?
RedOctober3829 said:
I don't really know. Realistically I don't think Ridley would bring back a high enough pick (120ish or higher). I think you can get a comparable player in the 3rd or 4th round and have him for 4 years of control, but if other teams agree with that they wouldn't trade for him. Not with Irsay sober.
Stitch01 said:
If you look at the cost benefit analysis, it makes more sense to sign a RB and draft OLine, DLine, Safety, TE, LB as they earn significantly more in free agency. I mean this theoretically and in a vacuum.
Titans have a week to either trade or cut Chris Johnson, or keep him at a $8M hit on their cap
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/chris-johnson-setting-stage-for-another-steve-mcnair-situation/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/chris-johnson-setting-stage-for-another-steve-mcnair-situation/
BREAKING: Maurice Jones-Drew agrees to contract with #Raiders http://t.co/RALyMTEZ0v (via @BairCSN) #RaidersTalk #NFL
This could be interesting. I don't think he would be a fit with the Pats. CJ2K is going to want the ball all the time and a nice contract on top of that. If anything I would imagine as soon as he's cut he will sign with the Jets. Makes more sense. Just bring Blount back. The RB situation is not nearly as dire as OL DL TE and WRE5 Yaz said:
MJD's made some decent money in his career. I don't quite understand how, after the years he endured in Jac', he wouldn't find a way to get a deal with a winner. Oakland? What a waste.
Not a bad point given the market correction for running backs we've seen this year, although I think you are likely to get cheap production sooner out of 4th or 5th round RB than a 4th or 5th rounder at the other positions.ColonelMustard said:
Eagles cut Jackson outright. He's now a free agent and the Eagles have a ton of cap space with not a lot to spend it on
pdaj said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10689567/maurice-jones-drew-agrees-three-year-deal-oakland-raiders
GFY. Chances are he didn't get that much from the Raiders, but wants a shot to play at home and earn another contract.
Gunfighter 09 said:
Raiders bring back Pat Sims: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000337867/article/pat-sims-oakland-raiders-reach-oneyear-deal?campaign=Twitter_atl
GF - I thought Sims would be a low-cost rotational DT for the Pats before Wilfork was brought back. Thoughts?
Excellent signing by the Texans, has to hurt the Phins and help the Pats.
Clemons played a ton of snaps last year (1158) and was the 9th best coverage rating out of all safeties last year, only allowing %52.4 of passes his way (10th best).
my name is Jeremy i have Lurked on this site for about a year
i have Spelling and Typing Diff due to my Cereal Palsy and other health worryers
i am a big Broncos fan yes even after the awful game in SB 48
that said if u can get Home Field over Denver and a healthy gronk
U Should be the AFC Fav in 2014
i have Spelling and Typing Diff due to my Cereal Palsy and other health worryers
i am a big Broncos fan yes even after the awful game in SB 48
that said if u can get Home Field over Denver and a healthy gronk
U Should be the AFC Fav in 2014
Welcome Jeremy!j-man said:
Broncos fans are cool with us, provided you admit that deep down you like Tom Brady better than Peyton Manning and that the real Papa is Gino, not John.
I think the teams are pretty evenly matched right now, Broncos maybe a bit of an advantage before the draft. The offense around Brady is questionable, if solid. Gronk will always be the key. At this point, I think most Pats fans just assume he will be out.
Again, welcome! Our other resident Broncos fan is Spike86, if you're looking for a rooting buddy.
j-man said:
Welcome J-man. Make yourself at home. I look forward to talking with you about the Broncos and Patriots and the upcoming season.
I agree that a healthy Gronk will really help us but I think most of us are worried he will be out for most of the season.
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