2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread

ElUno20

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Bledsoe's old friends the Clippers could also be a pretty intriguing landing spot, with Teodosic out "indefinitely." Sucky Austin Rivers + Harrell and/or Dekker works out money-wise for example.

That actually starts to look like a pretty fearsome squad, as I think Bledsoe and Beverley are big, rugged enough defensively and good enough shooters to play together a lot of the time. Bev-Bledsoe-Gallo-Griffin-DJ, with Lou Williams, Wes Johnson, Willie Reed, eventually Teodosic et al. coming off the bench? Yikes, I fear that team a little. Any interest, El Uno or other Clips fans?
There's no way someone willingly takes Austin Rivers in a trade. But if they can, go for it. Sucks that Milos is done but since it was so early I didn't have time to fall in love so that's a plus, I guess.

Back to Rivers, I know he plays solid defense and hustles but he has somehow gotten worse on offense. It's like both his hands are his off hand or he has penguin hands. I can't watch him getting 30 mpg
 

Sam Ray Not

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Curry 39-39 from the FT line to start the season.

Probably more remarkable that he's gotten himself to the stripe 39 times in four games (in 31.5 mpg) than that he hasn't missed one.
 

thehitcat

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And the Suns are off the Schneid. All it took was getting rid of Watson and Bledsoe and they're going streaking!!! or not. but it's a win.
 

HomeRunBaker

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HRB binky Dejounte Murray with a 16/14/6 line in a Spurs win. I was a Zizic/Zubac guy with our late first rounder but it looks like Labissierre and Murray are going to be players in this league for a long time.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Any other good fits? The Bucks jump to mind, since they have plenty of tradable salary fodder, are not far off from competing for the East title, and have very little in the way of quality PGs (outside of Giannis). Something like Bledsoe and Jared Dudley for Greg Monroe, Dellavedova, and Rashad Vaughn and/or a pick works in the trade machine, and I think would make the Bucks instantly a lot more fearsome...
The Bucks don't have a true PG but they aren't really short of play makers. If the Suns are just looking to dump him, they could trade him for pretty much whatever they want as they are far enough under the cap. The move you are suggesting is basically a dump, and I'm guessing they could get a pick back that is better than Milwaukee's. I'd love it if that were the case though, as I enjoy the Bucks. Even if they did trade with the Bucks, I'm sure the Suns would rather just move Bledsoe for Monroe and picks. I'm not sure why they'd want Dellavedova's contract and they don't need to worry about the contracts matching up.

The Suns are going to have a ton of cap room in 18 and/or 19 if any FA's are willing to sign, and have the talent to trade for another star. As ugly as it is there, they could have a really quick turn around. The lack of having a long term plan has kept all their assets in place for the most part. They are a terrible team in a pretty good position. If they could sign DeMarcus Cousins, trade for a star and sign another FA like Marcus Smart while keeping 2-3 of the younger pieces, the team could be competitive as soon as next year. Lotta ifs, but they at least left themselves with options. Smart and Cousins would hide a lot of Booker's problems on D. I'm guessing Booker would go in any trade for a star but it's possible a package could be build around Jackson or Chriss. Even Bender if he continues to put up numbers.
 

bowiac

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Nate Duncan was suggesting a swap of Malcolm Brogdon and John Henson's contract for Bledsoe. I think that makes a good amount of sense for both sides, depending on where you are on Brogdon's upside.
 

JCizzle

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That was sick, but I really can't wait until they start losing and Draymond whines about being disrespected.
 

thehitcat

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So Anthony Davis had to leave the Pels - Blazers game with a knee issue and is questionable to return. Didn't see it and the Blazers guys on NBA TV aren't really talking about it much.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Pacers are currently stomping the loaded Wolves, 112-92 in the 4th
IND shot .667 for the game and over 74% percent (46/62) from inside the 3P arc. Apparently the message about defense wasn't really taken to heart.

Also Aaron Gordon went for 41 tonight including 5/5 on 3Pers. Can you imagine if he figured out how to shoot?
 

luckiestman

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Blake just old school 90s posterized Gobert. It was a monster dunk. Clips are fun, man.
 

cheech13

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Pacers are currently stomping the loaded Wolves, 112-92 in the 4th
I still don't believe in this "loaded" Wolves team. No defense or shooting and a crappy bench. Playoffs sure, but I don't see a 50-win team.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Again, Jimmy Butler didn't play. It doesn't excuse all of it, but it's 1 game and their best player wasn't playing.

Still, it will be a struggle for them to win 50 games in the West.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Sabonis and Oladipo have looked really good early on this season too. When Myles Turner returns, they could be semi competitive.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Blazers have apparently won 11 of the first 12 quarters they have played and get something like 10 of the next 11 games at home. More importantly for us, Evan Turner is +61 so far, is shooting 33% from 3P, and 93% on FTs.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Didn't see anywhere else to put it but some guy wrote a book on the rise of CLE to NBA champion. While that's probably not very interesting, there is a short but interesting excerpt about drafting Anthony Bennett as #1 and how CLE's GM at the time didn't want him. Here's one quote from David Griffin:

“The issue with Anthony was, and we had no way of knowing it at the time, the kid had no desire to overcome adversity whatsoever. As soon as it was hard, he was out,” (David) Griffin said. “His whole life, he rolled out of bed bigger, better, and more talented than everybody else. As soon as it was hard, it was over. And I was the one on campus at UNLV. I’m the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You fuck up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasn’t sure.”
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sabonis and Oladipo have looked really good early on this season too. When Myles Turner returns, they could be semi competitive.
Oladipo is a beast and one of the better two-way players in the league. He took a ton of undeserved heat for being a poor return for George which I never really understood. I really like the Pacers as a darkhorse in the EC regular season with their depth. They are a legit contender for a 4-5 seed imo.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Meh. Fairly typical Blake dunk in which he uses his off hand to pommel-horse himself up on his defender's chest, back or shoulders. That one's borderline, but a lot of his so-called "posters" are pretty obvious offensive fouls.
 
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Sam Ray Not

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Oladipo is a beast and one of the better two-way players in the league. He took a ton of undeserved heat for being a poor return for George which I never really understood. I really like the Pacers as a darkhorse in the EC regular season with their depth. They are a legit contender for a 4-5 seed imo.
Who could have guessed that Oladipo's strengths in OKC were being squelched by Mr. Triple Double Stat Chaser?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Oladipo is a beast and one of the better two-way players in the league. He took a ton of undeserved heat for being a poor return for George which I never really understood. I really like the Pacers as a darkhorse in the EC regular season with their depth. They are a legit contender for a 4-5 seed imo.
He was also a terrible fit with Westbrook and it really hurt his game last year.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Have they done any coaching work with him on boxing out at the free throw line or is the rub on him that it's still an "effort," "does he want it?" deal?
I still hear from a lot of Ducks and Warriors fans that he needs to learn how to box out better, on free throws and in general.

Still, for a guy who doesn't really box out and can't shoot (yet?), he's been damn impressive. Still early times and small samples, but we're now talking Summer League, pre season games, and four real games in which he's been consistently great. He's freakishly athletic, not in an ostentatious way but more in the way that he makes things that are difficult (e.g. recovering and/or blocking shots without fouling when out of defensive position, switching onto smaller players, catching and finishing alley-oops through contact, etc.) look easy and natural. He never seems rushed, always seems to be in the right place and make the smart play (backboard dunk notwithstanding), and just seems to have innately great hands, feet, and timing on both ends. Great motor, too.

Fun with small samples (per 36 min.)
Reg season: 20.9 pts on .862 true shooting / 10.5 reb / 3.5 ast / 1.2 stl / 2.3 blk (31 total minutes)
Pre-season: 21.5 pts on .699 true shooting / 11.9 reb / 5.3 ast / 2.9 stl / 2.9 blk (48 total minutes)

He's already passed Kevon Looney and Damian Jones in the Ws' big rotation, which isn't saying a lot, but does suggest that Kerr already has a ton of trust in him. Will be interesting to see if/when he starts taking minutes from Zaza, McGee and/or West.
 
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Kliq

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Know what my favorite Sam Ray Not comment about Westbrook’s stat padding is?

The next one.
As a disclaimer I'm a Westbrook fan and thought by far he was the most exciting player in basketball last season. The idea that Westbrook "stole" a bunch of rebounds from his teammates could get a triple double has become commonplace. That take would make sense; except OKC was the best rebounding team in all of basketball last year, 46.6 per game. If his teammates were siphoning a bunch of rebounds so Westbrook could average a triple-double; than it's illogical to say that hurt the team's rebounding. What is more likely is that OKC getting premium rebounding from their PG allowed them to lead the league in rebounding.

There is also an argument to be made that Westbrook cleaning up the defensive end also allowed the team to get into their fast break more efficiently; which could be a reason why they finished 11th in PPG despite having one guy on their team that could get his own shot and finished dead last in 3pt%.
 

Sam Ray Not

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As a disclaimer I'm a Westbrook fan and thought by far he was the most exciting player in basketball last season. The idea that Westbrook "stole" a bunch of rebounds from his teammates could get a triple double has become commonplace. That take would make sense; except OKC was the best rebounding team in all of basketball last year, 46.6 per game. If his teammates were siphoning a bunch of rebounds so Westbrook could average a triple-double; than it's illogical to say that hurt the team's rebounding. What is more likely is that OKC getting premium rebounding from their PG allowed them to lead the league in rebounding.

There is also an argument to be made that Westbrook cleaning up the defensive end also allowed the team to get into their fast break more efficiently; which could be a reason why they finished 11th in PPG despite having one guy on their team that could get his own shot and finished dead last in 3pt%.
I think the issue was not that he was stealing rebounds from teammates (since a rebound is a rebound, and you may be right that getting it right into the PG's hands allowed them to get into their break quicker) but that he was regularly selling out on contesting perimeter shots — one of the most important jobs of a PG in today's NBA — in order to rack up those rebounds. Check it out:

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/is-russell-westbrook-padding-his-rebounding-stats-by-leaving-his-defender-stats-say-he-is/

Westbrook has contested a grand total of 160 FG’s on the ENTIRE SEASON. That number is staggeringly low and to be frank, flat out embarrassing. Westbrook ranks dead last in the NBA in contested shots among players averaging 30 or more MPG by a considerable margin. Hilariously, the only two players who have contested less 3P FGA’s are Rudy Gobert and Whiteside, who have contested 53 and 64 respectively. Russell Westbrook is at 69 while having playing [sic] close to the same amount of minutes…Yes, DeAndre Jordan has contested more 3P FGA’s this season than Russell Westbrook.

[...] When Westbrook is on the line for free throws, his teammates box out so he can swoop in and collect rebounds. Maybe this is all part of Billy Donovan’s plan – let Westbrook grab all the rebounds so he can race upcourt and we can get early offense started. The Thunder are 3rd in fastbreak points per game.

Except there is one glaring issue with Westbrook constantly leaving the opposing team’s point guard – according to the Reddit poster, the Thunder rank last in the NBA in opponent’s guards’ expected field goal percentage. (on NBA.com, Russell Westbrook is listed as allowing 48.8% shooting percentage, well below average). If someone presents that information to Billy Donovan, could that actually help the Thunder defensively? The Thunder are currently 10th in defensive efficiency, and 20th in effective field goal percentage defense.
 

Kliq

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I think the issue was not that he was stealing rebounds from teammates (since a rebound is a rebound, and you may be right that getting it right into the PG's hands allowed them to get into their break quicker) but that he was regularly selling out on contesting perimeter shots — one of the most important jobs of a PG in today's NBA — in order to rack up those rebounds. Check it out:

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/is-russell-westbrook-padding-his-rebounding-stats-by-leaving-his-defender-stats-say-he-is/

Westbrook has contested a grand total of 160 FG’s on the ENTIRE SEASON. That number is staggeringly low and to be frank, flat out embarrassing. Westbrook ranks dead last in the NBA in contested shots among players averaging 30 or more MPG by a considerable margin. Hilariously, the only two players who have contested less 3P FGA’s are Rudy Gobert and Whiteside, who have contested 53 and 64 respectively. Russell Westbrook is at 69 while having playing [sic] close to the same amount of minutes…Yes, DeAndre Jordan has contested more 3P FGA’s this season than Russell Westbrook.

[...] When Westbrook is on the line for free throws, his teammates box out so he can swoop in and collect rebounds. Maybe this is all part of Billy Donovan’s plan – let Westbrook grab all the rebounds so he can race upcourt and we can get early offense started. The Thunder are 3rd in fastbreak points per game.

Except there is one glaring issue with Westbrook constantly leaving the opposing team’s point guard – according to the Reddit poster, the Thunder rank last in the NBA in opponent’s guards’ expected field goal percentage. (on NBA.com, Russell Westbrook is listed as allowing 48.8% shooting percentage, well below average). If someone presents that information to Billy Donovan, could that actually help the Thunder defensively? The Thunder are currently 10th in defensive efficiency, and 20th in effective field goal percentage defense.
This would all be more relevant if the Thunder didn't finish 10th in defensive rating last season. If they were a truly bad defensive team, then maybe sacrificing perimeter contests wasn't worth it; but by allowing Westbrook to self-initiate the offense, OKC was able to fully maximize their abilities on offense while also playing well-above league average on defense. I think that was a strategy that paid off for OKC but YMMV.

Player A: 16 ppg-5rpg-4apg, 43/34/83, 22.9 usage rate.

Player B: 16 ppg-4.5rpg-3apg, 44/36/75, 21.4 usage rate.

Player A is Victor Oladpio is final year with Orlando, and Player B is is Oladipo last season with OKC. Obviously, Oladipo was a much worse player when he was playing with that triple-double crazed Westbrook.

I generally like you; but your obvious disdain for Westbrook, which I kind of think is done because you are threatened by the idea that someone could think he is better than Curry, is annoying.
 

Cesar Crespo

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That's all fine and great but Oladipo was at a point in his career where he should have continued to get better. Instead, he saw a huge drop in his assist rate and stayed mostly flat elsewhere.
 

Kliq

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That's all fine and great but Oladipo was at a point in his career where he should have continued to get better. Instead, he saw a huge drop in his assist rate and stayed mostly flat elsewhere.
Obviously his assist rate was down; he want from playing with Elfrid Payton to prime Russell Westbrook. What did people actually expect from Oladipo heading into the season? For him to average 20+ ppg? I don't remember anyone predicting that he was going to make a big leap once he was traded to OKC, but maybe there were. I'm not saying Westbrook was the ideal teammate for Oladipo, but the idea that he made him much worse based on the first few games of the 2017-2018 season, doesn't seem very definitive.
 

Sam Ray Not

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This would all be more relevant if the Thunder didn't finish 10th in defensive rating last season.
10th is solid, but solid doesn't mean it can't be improved. Adams, Roberson and Oladipo (their three top minutes guys last season, after Westbrook) are all excellent defenders. Maybe they're top 5 if Russell puts in better effort on defense? He certainly has all the physical tools to be a great defender.

by allowing Westbrook to self-initiate the offense, OKC was able to fully maximize their abilities on offense while also playing well-above league average on defense. I think that was a strategy that paid off for OKC but YMMV.
Well, if we're going to point out their above-average defense, we should also point out their below-average offense (105.0 pts allowed per 100 possessions, #17 in the NBA). Maybe that was maximizing their limited abilities, but it's nothing special. It could well be that allowing bigs to rebound more would have made their offense worse. It's also a mathematical certainty that if Westbrook scored with anywhere near the elite efficiency of the other MVP candidates (LeBron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, IT, e.g.) their offense would have been been significantly better.

Player A: 16 ppg-5rpg-4apg, 43/34/83, 22.9 usage rate. Player B: 16 ppg-4.5rpg-3apg, 44/36/75, 21.4 usage rate. Player A is Victor Oladipo is final year with Orlando, and Player B is is Oladipo last season with OKC. Obviously, Oladipo was a much worse player when he was playing with that triple-double crazed Westbrook.
See Bosox79's comment above.

I generally like you; but your obvious disdain for Westbrook, which I kind of think is done because you are threatened by the idea that someone could think he is better than Curry, is annoying.
Haha, I like you too! And yeah, I don't know about "disdain", but I will consider Westbrook at least mildly overrated, relative to the other top-line NBA superstars who he beat out for MVP, until he shows that he can lead a great team, make his teammates better, and/or play more efficiently — especially in the playoffs, when his worst hero-ball tendencies tend to emerge (giving rise to the whispers that he's "easy to guard"). Advanced stats like RPM that adjust for quality of floormates do rate him highly (though not as highly as LeBron or Curry), but those are somewhat theoretical compared to actual scoring efficiency and actual team wins.

Which one of these things is not like the others?

Career True Shooting %, reg. season / playoffs
====
.584 / .574 James
.608 / .588 Durant
.598 / .617 Leonard
.617 / .609 Curry
.606 / .590 Harden
.533 / .518 Westbrook
 

HomeRunBaker

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Meh. Fairly typical Blake dunk in which he uses his off hand to pommel-horse himself up on his defender's chest, back or shoulders. That one's borderline, but a lot of his so-called "posters" are pretty obvious offensive fouls.
There was actually no contact at all with Gobert. He turned his head away as a tribute to Fredrick Weis.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That's all fine and great but Oladipo was at a point in his career where he should have continued to get better. Instead, he saw a huge drop in his assist rate and stayed mostly flat elsewhere.
Geez you're really criticizing the player for his role changing? You must put the numbers in context with the schemes he's playing within when evaluating a player. Finally, I was impressed with Oladipo's growth last year once he got out of Magic Hell.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Geez you're really criticizing the player for his role changing? You must put the numbers in context with the schemes he's playing within when evaluating a player. Finally, I was impressed with Oladipo's growth last year once he got out of Magic Hell.
No. I'm saying his game was crippled playing along Westbrook because he was forced into a role that didn't really suit him. He's going to be much better this season.

edit: He was fine in the role he was asked to play, he's just capable of doing more.
 

DJnVa

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Lonzo Ball gets to face John Wall tonight. I'm giddy.

Wall could get 50.
 

Kliq

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No. I'm saying his game was crippled playing along Westbrook because he was forced into a role that didn't really suit him. He's going to be much better this season.

edit: He was fine in the role he was asked to play, he's just capable of doing more.
Well he had an increased role in Orlando and he put up basically the exact same stats; except for a decline in assist percentage which was expected.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Well he had an increased role in Orlando and he put up basically the exact same stats; except for a decline in assist percentage which was expected.
Yeah, when he was younger. You would expect him to continue to improve as a player at 23. The fact he put up the same stats means he stalled. Granted, that could have also happened in Orlando.
 

DJnVa

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Nets by 2...they missed FT but got offensive board.

EDIT: And miss 2 more FTs. Sigh. LBJ to line with 7.6 left, down 2.

He misses first. LOL. Misses second on purpose, Nets board, going to line with 4 seconds left. Missed again. Hits second up 3.

This Cavs team can be had.
 

ifmanis5

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Love got in the lane early on that missed FT, no call but the Nets hold on.
This out of bounds call should be out off LeBron but they won't call it.
The refs in this league are garbage. This should be Nets ball.

EDIT: replay reverses it and LeBron cries. Almost worth it.