Tom Brady cried on TV about being a 6th round draft pick despite the fact that he's won a bunch of Super Bowls made hundreds of millions of dollars and married a supermodel since. I'd say that's weirder.I really don't hate LeBron, but he is definitely a different sort of guy. A lot of that probably does come from his challenged childhood,which he deserves immense credit for fighting through, and a lot of how he is different is probably the same stuff that fuels his greatness. But something can have a logical explanation and make sense on one level yet also be undeniably weird.
In addition to the outstanding play, the Shakespearean drama is top notch in the NBA right now.Yeah, there's apparently a segment of NBA folks that think IT is a snitch regarding something to do with Kevin Love. One theory is he is the one that called out Love in the team meeting in order to deflect attention away from his defense.
Has anyone posted the IT quote where he called out the entire team’s defense?Yeah, there's apparently a segment of NBA folks that think IT is a snitch regarding something to do with Kevin Love. One theory is he is the one that called out Love in the team meeting in order to deflect attention away from his defense.
Might be IT. If the Cavs get bounced early, IT is going to have to settle for a make good contract.Who are these people? I find it hard to believe it is IT, who just got there. I doubt it is Jose Calderon. That basically leaves, Wade, LeBron, JR or Tristan Thompson.
That doesn't seem like the best strategy for breaking into a new teamThere have been reports that IT led the criticisms of Love in that meeting.
Well played, Isaiah, well played...That seems like the best strategy for breaking a new team
There have been several reports indicating that IT and Wade led the meeting and subsequent burial of Love and that there is a divide between the new Cavs players and the ones that were there last season.There have been reports that IT led the criticisms of Love in that meeting.
I know that Love is the scapegoat now and that Cleveland needs to make changes but I can’t see them moving him unless they get another All-Star back in return. Otherwise they’ll wait until the offseason and move him for picks.I'm still a Kevin Love fan. Seems apparent that he just needs to get the hell away from that team. He has never seem to fit. Maybe the Love to LAL thing that was all the rage could actually happen.
Love to LAL
Caldwell Pope + Randle to CLE
I don’t envy the MVP voters their decision this season. Do you vote for the future first-ballot Hall of Famer having what may well end up being his best season (Harden), or do you vote for LeBron in what will likely be his last chance to win the award (because I don’t think he’ll go this hard for 82 games again)?Does the fact that the Cavs are a complete dumpster fire behind the scenes (and recently on the court) factor into LeBron's MVP consideration?
The "on the court" part has to be the key consideration — not just recently, but the Cavs now have a negative net rating for the season, and even more remarkably, have been significantly worse with LeBron on the court than off (-1.3 pts per 100 on, +3.2 off). Barring a massive turnaround over the final 35 games, those facts alone should be 100% dealbreakers, imho.Does the fact that the Cavs are a complete dumpster fire behind the scenes (and recently on the court) factor into LeBron's MVP consideration?.
Similar to Kawhi last year, Lebron has been incredibly "unlucky" this year (third worst in the league) in terms of opponents' FT% and 3PT%, which is undoubtedly accounting for some of the on/off stuff we're seeing on defense for Lebron.The "on the court" part has to be the key consideration — not just recently, but the Cavs now have a negative net rating for the season, and even more remarkably, have been significantly worse with LeBron on the court than off (-1.3 pts per 100 on, +3.2 off). Barring a massive turnaround over the final 35 games, those facts alone should be 100% dealbreakers, imho.
But yeah, to the extent that the on-court and off-court stuff is separable, the endless drama and negativity can't help his case, either. MVP voters like feel-good narratives, and the Cavs are working on the antithesis of that.
I would add Durant into the conversation as well, considering his scoring efficiency and impact on defense this season. Even if he isn't technically the most "valuable" player to his team, he has to be in the Top 3. Giannis and Curry would round out my top five in some order.I don’t envy the MVP voters their decision this season. Do you vote for the future first-ballot Hall of Famer having what may well end up being his best season (Harden), or do you vote for LeBron in what will likely be his last chance to win the award (because I don’t think he’ll go this hard for 82 games again)?
See, I think it’s wide open after Harden and LBJ. The best player on the best team is always an MVP candidate, but I think that’s Curry, not KD. And I’m not sure I’d put either of them higher than Giannis, Towns, DeRozan, or even Kyrie on an MVP ballot. I could probably argue those guys from 3 to 8 in any order you like, except I think I’d be hard-pressed to put Kyrie higher than 5th or so.I would add Durant into the conversation as well, considering his scoring efficiency and impact on defense this season. Even if he isn't technically the most "valuable" player to his team, he has to be in the Top 3. Giannis and Curry would round out my top five in some order.
This is nuts.If the season ended now, I'd put all those guys (plus Westbrook, Towns, AD, Boogie and possibly a couple others) ahead of LeBron.
I mean, the dude has played nearly 1700 minutes and during that time the other team has outscored his team by 29 points. How is that MVP worthy?This is nuts.
Because if he weren’t there his team would be like -5000.I mean, the dude has played nearly 1700 minutes and during that time the other team has outscored his team by 29 points. How is that MVP worthy?
Almost all the other candidates (including a guy like Westbrook who plays for a pretty meh team) are well above +200.
I understand why you'd want to ignore my response to you earlier , but if you're really gonna rely so much on the on/off stuff you should at least try to grapple with his bad luck.I mean, the dude has played nearly 1700 minutes and during that time the other team has outscored his team by 29 points. How is that MVP worthy?
Almost all the other candidates (including a guy like Westbrook who plays for a pretty meh team) are well above +200.
I mentioned it in passing earlier (“bad luck or no.”) I mean, I think it’s valid if we’re projecting him going forward — he’s almost certainly not a net negative player in a “real” sense — but I think it’s far less valid for a retrospective award like MVP. I just don’t being a negative for a negative team is remotely in the spirit of the award.I understand why you'd want to ignore my response to you earlier , but if you're really gonna rely so much on the on/off stuff you should at least try to grapple with his bad luck.
Except that when he’s been on the bench, his team has been significantly better.Because if he weren’t there his team would be like -5000.
Love to LAL and then LeBron there in six months?I'm still a Kevin Love fan. Seems apparent that he just needs to get the hell away from that team. He has never seem to fit. Maybe the Love to LAL thing that was all the rage could actually happen.
Love to LAL
Caldwell Pope + Randle to CLE
And that is because when he is on the bench, it is generally 2nd unit vs 2nd unit. I hope you can see that CLE starting 5 with someone not named named LeBron vs other teams starting 5 would be a significantly worse team.Except that when he’s been on the bench, his team has been significantly better.
Possibly, but they’ve also been shite with him (despite being built around his skillset). Call me crazy but I don’t think “his team is shite with him but even worse shite without him” is a resounding case for MVP.And that is because when he is on the bench, it is generally 2nd unit vs 2nd unit. I hope you can see that CLE starting 5 with someone not named named LeBron vs other teams starting 5 would be a significantly worse team.
Possibly? We're talking about arguably the greatest player in NBA history and you're citing random +/- numbers. There's just no argument here that you're making that can be close to reality for anyone who is serious. Sure, there can be a serious argument about a handful of players above possibly above him for MVP, but continuing to argue he's made his team worse is just silly.Possibly, but they’ve also been shite with him (despite being built around his skillset). Call me crazy but I don’t think “his team is shite with him but even worse shite without him” is a resounding case for MVP.
Bad luck and line-up collinearity aside, I do suspect there's something going on with his defense, whether age or effort related. The Cavs defense has been substantially worse with him on the court, that's undeniable.I mentioned it in passing earlier (“bad luck or no.”) I mean, I think it’s valid if we’re projecting him going forward — he’s almost certainly not a net negative player in a “real” sense — but I think it’s far less valid for a retrospective award like MVP. I just don’t being a negative for a negative team is remotely in the spirit of the award.
I also think it’s not out of the realm of possibility that there is at least something real going on. His D at age 33, for example, could really have fallen off a cliff, and that’s half the game.
I mainly just wanted to explain why his defense likely isn't as bad as the on/off numbers say, but generally speaking I'm more than OK with this argument. Hell, I've been pushing it whenever anyone stans for Derozan, but no one ever wants to try to address why, for basically his entire career, his teams are better when he's off the court.Except that when he’s been on the bench, his team has been significantly better.
Yep, and I made it clear that what's happened (so far) this year is totally anomalous in his otherwise historically great career. We're talking about his 2017-18 MVP case, not his HOF case. And what's happening this season is happening at an age when the majority of NBA players start to decline.Possibly? We're talking about arguably the greatest player in NBA history
They're not random; they're exactly how his team has done with him on the floor, in a non-trivial sample of 1700 minutes. How is that more "random" than any other number?and you're citing random +/- numbers.
I never argued that he made his team worse — just noted the fact his team has been worse so far this season with him on the floor than on the bench. Obviously the "why" of that result requires more context and thought.There's just no argument here that you're making that can be close to reality for anyone who is serious. Sure, there can be a serious argument about a handful of players above possibly above him for MVP, but continuing to argue he's made his team worse is just silly.
Yeah, I figured you might. Steph and Draymond are two of the more "probably shouldn't be surprising, but whoa!" guys on the sheet, particularly the multi-year stuff. I wonder what Steph's legacy looks like when all's said and done. He had his borderline GOAT season that elevated the conversation about him, but with his general consistency it seems like we almost take him for granted these days.Thanks, DD! At a top line glance, I like it.
LeBron currently at #28, even adjusted for bad luck and box score priors (where he obviously crushes it). The offense looks great — ahead of everyone except Curry, Harden and KD, which sounds about right — but his defensive impact this season has been more negative than anyone in the top 100, and more negative than anyone in the top 200 not named Lou Williams.
Yeah, I'm happy allowing that Trout is a pretty deserving MVP every season that he's healthy, but NBA MVP award is a much different animal, since an individual player has so much more control over his team's bottom line (i.e. W-L). By NBA tradition, being on a bad or even mediocre team is basically disqualifying for MVP, which I think is as it should be. LeBron in his early prime when he played both ends of the floor at a high level was still able to get some pretty garbage Cavs teams to 60 wins.Well I guess that is just a fundamental difference in how we look at it. Reminds me of the Mike Trout for MVP from the past several years. I think being a less shitty because of you is just as valuable.
Feel like I've mentioned this before, but just to update it with a larger sample size...Yeah, I figured you might. Steph and Draymond are two of the more "probably shouldn't be surprising, but whoa!" guys on the sheet, particularly the multi-year stuff. I wonder what Steph's legacy looks like when all's said and done. He had his borderline GOAT season that elevated the conversation about him, but with his general consistency it seems like we almost take him for granted these days.
I don't think he is wrong but that's the most negative light you could paint Curry in. It's not his fault he plays with Kevin Durant. Even then, he's probably top 5 in the MVP.Feel like I've mentioned this before, but just to update it with a larger sample size...
(Per 36 mins.)
2015-16 "GOAT" Curry: 31.7 pts on .669 true shooting / 5.7 reb / 7.0 ast / 3.5 tov
2017-18 current Curry: 30.2 pts on .669 true shooting / 5.7 reb / 7.1 ast / 3.3 tov
So yeah, I think we tend to take him for granted. I know shouldn't care what Rat-Faced Nick Wright says about anything, but a few days ago he shot down Curry's MVP case thusly: "Is he the best player in the league? No. Is he the most valuable player on his team? No. End of Story." I mean, talk about "begging the question"! (At least I think that's proper use of the phrase). Might as well say he's not the MVP because ... he's not the MVP.
Pretty sure on that play, the officials missed 5 calls in a matter of 5 secondsSteven Adams just did the haka on Bradley Beal's breadbasket, with an assist from Marcin Gortat.
I am not excusing Draymond Green for his nut kicking/tapping ways but Steven Adams is and always has been a sneakily dirty player. There is a reason he gets into it with other players besides Green.Steven Adams just did the haka on Bradley Beal's breadbasket, with an assist from Marcin Gortat.