2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

Euclis20

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Caleb Martin in the ECF against Boston (7 games): 19/6/2, .738 TS%
Caleb Martin so far this season (7 games): 8/3/1, .419 TS%

I'm never getting over this.
 

jon abbey

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Caleb Martin in the ECF against Boston (7 games): 19/6/2, .738 TS%
Caleb Martin so far this season (7 games): 8/3/1, .419 TS%

I'm never getting over this.
He is on a minutes restriction currently, coming back from injury, playing an average of 20 minutes per game. He played 36 minutes a game on average in the BOS series.
 

slamminsammya

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Caleb Martin in the ECF against Boston (7 games): 19/6/2, .738 TS%
Caleb Martin so far this season (7 games): 8/3/1, .419 TS%

I'm never getting over this.
This will forever be my reply when people ascribe that loss to some psycho babble stuff about being front runners or not wanting it enough or being mentally soft or whatever. What do you do when a role player suddenly turns into Larry Bird for 7 games and immediately turns back into a pumpkin?
 

Euclis20

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He is on a minutes restriction currently, coming back from injury, playing an average of 20 minutes per game. He played 36 minutes a game on average in the BOS series.
Fine. How about this 7 game sample?

Finals against Denver: 7/4/1, .453 TS%.

He's a mediocre role player that turned into a borderline all-star for a full 7 game series. Plenty of role players have a great game or two in a playoff series, the fact that this guy was a completely different player for his entire career outside of 2 weeks in May just kills me.
 

Euclis20

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Draymond not exactly taking any lessons from the incident with Gobert:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38987498/draymond-green-says-regret-incident-rudy-gobert

"I don't live my life with regrets," Green said after practice, the first time he has spoken to reporters since his suspension. "I'll come to a teammate's defense any time that I'm in a position to come to a teammate's defense. ... What matters to me is how the people that I care about feel, first and foremost. How are the people that I care about affected? How are the people I care about, what do they have to deal with? That's it for me."
"Things can be interpreted how people want to interpret them," he said. "I'm not here to judge people's interpretations or try to change them. They are what they are. I know that for me, I am always going to be there for my teammates. That's who I am. That's who I am as a teammate, that's who I am as a friend. ... Right, wrong or indifferent, look to your side and I'll be there -- or even in front of you."
"The consensus amongst all of us is that I'm going to be me no matter what. That's not going to change," Green said. "But in saying that, there's always a better way that something can be done. So it's figuring out a better way. That's the consensus among all of us."
"To continue mentioning, 'Oh, well, he did this in the past,' I paid for those," Green said. "I got suspended in Game 5 of the NBA Finals. You can't keep suspending me for those actions."
I'm sure this won't happen again.
 

InstaFace

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Good video.

He highlighted the coaching continuity in 3 places that have seen outsized success - Miami, San Antonio and Golden State - but the way I see it, Boston is basically a 4th. Since Grousbeck bought the team in late 2002 and brought in a guy they had faith in a year later, we have: Doc Rivers coaches for 9 seasons, wins a title, should've won a second. Brad hired in 2013, coaches for 8 seasons before getting, not fired but promoted. Ime Udoka given the keys, we know what happened there, but we now have every indication that Mazzulla is being given tons of rope, extensions, public proclamations of their faith in him... but even if nice words often aren't worth much when the media pressure builds, the team's ownership has proven that they view coaching continuity as an asset, even a competitive advantage. And Wyc isn't going anywhere.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yup, standing by my theory. Dude just wrecked himself on his bike, panicked and came home and told a story about being hit by a car.
The fact that the police couldn't find footage of the accident was kind of telling. I know cameras aren't everywhere but in a major city like Philly, they are everywhere. My guess is that if there is footage of that accident, its on a GoPro or Insta360 that's probably sitting in the back of Oubre's closet right about now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Good video.

He highlighted the coaching continuity in 3 places that have seen outsized success - Miami, San Antonio and Golden State - but the way I see it, Boston is basically a 4th. Since Grousbeck bought the team in late 2002 and brought in a guy they had faith in a year later, we have: Doc Rivers coaches for 9 seasons, wins a title, should've won a second. Brad hired in 2013, coaches for 8 seasons before getting, not fired but promoted. Ime Udoka given the keys, we know what happened there, but we now have every indication that Mazzulla is being given tons of rope, extensions, public proclamations of their faith in him... but even if nice words often aren't worth much when the media pressure builds, the team's ownership has proven that they view coaching continuity as an asset, even a competitive advantage. And Wyc isn't going anywhere.
Spo is in a class by himself in getting the most out of his players in the NBA. When has Pop or Kerr had success when they haven't had elite players? Pop seems like Belichick in this regard as he handled those teams perfectly but hasn't done much when he hasn't had one of the best teams in the league (not overlooking how great he was at getting the most out of great players to win together) while Kerr is on my pedestal of most overrated coaches in any sport and not to use the Brady reference again but without Curry his teams have performed pretty badly. So does coaching continuity lead to great teams or do great players lead to coaching continuity on great teams?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Dude’s good. You’d expect all that height to be a huge disadvantage (bigger/heavier bike, high center of gravity).
I agree and Oubre comes off well in the clip. Also, maybe he really was hit by a car but this was made in the past few months. Just seems "sus" as the kids say
 

Kliq

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Spo is in a class by himself in getting the most out of his players in the NBA. When has Pop or Kerr had success when they haven't had elite players? Pop seems like Belichick in this regard as he handled those teams perfectly but hasn't done much when he hasn't had one of the best teams in the league (not overlooking how great he was at getting the most out of great players to win together) while Kerr is on my pedestal of most overrated coaches in any sport and not to use the Brady reference again but without Curry his teams have performed pretty badly. So does coaching continuity lead to great teams or do great players lead to coaching continuity on great teams?
Pop won a title with Stephen Jackson as his second best player.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pop won a title with Stephen Jackson as his second best player.
Jackson was anywhere from 3 to 7 on Duncan/Parker's team depending on who you ask with everyone else filling a role around the NBA's MVP. He played his role well but saying he was the second best player on a championship team is disingenuous. The Spurs haven't won more than 34 games in a season or been to the playoffs since the 2018-19 season. That's my point....you have the MVP, you win. He handled top end talent extremely well.
 

Euclis20

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Spo is in a class by himself in getting the most out of his players in the NBA. When has Pop or Kerr had success when they haven't had elite players? Pop seems like Belichick in this regard as he handled those teams perfectly but hasn't done much when he hasn't had one of the best teams in the league (not overlooking how great he was at getting the most out of great players to win together) while Kerr is on my pedestal of most overrated coaches in any sport and not to use the Brady reference again but without Curry his teams have performed pretty badly. So does coaching continuity lead to great teams or do great players lead to coaching continuity on great teams?
The Pop/Belichick comps have looked pretty solid for decades, especially as the Pats bottom out this year. It's kind of remarkable how little people have cared about Pop and the Spurs being completely invisible since Zaza undercut Kawhi a full 7 years ago.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Pop/Belichick comps have looked pretty solid for decades, especially as the Pats bottom out this year. It's kind of remarkable how little people have cared about Pop and the Spurs being completely invisible since Zaza undercut Kawhi a full 7 years ago.
If you want to know the difference between fanbases simply do a study on these two post-stars retiring.
 

Red Averages

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The Pop/Belichick comps have looked pretty solid for decades, especially as the Pats bottom out this year. It's kind of remarkable how little people have cared about Pop and the Spurs being completely invisible since Zaza undercut Kawhi a full 7 years ago.
Said this before to the whiners and was chastised. Why look in the mirror to self reflect when you can spew anger without recourse of providing a solution or owning your terrible analysis when it’s proven wrong?
 

Euclis20

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If you want to know the difference between fanbases simply do a study on these two post-stars retiring.
The irony is that if anything, Belichick deserves more credit than Popovich for their respective successes. Belichick inherited a team on a downward trend, had the foresight to draft Brady (after every team in the league passed multiple times), kept him on the roster for a year as the 4th QB when no one does that, and developed him from a guy on the fringe of the league into the GOAT. Pop inherited a top 75 player at the end of his prime, then had the good fortune to be terrible and lucky exactly the right times (when the two best prospects of the last 30 years, after Lebron, were available).

Curious to see what ends up happening with Pop. A few weeks ago Wemby and the Spurs looked a year or two away from competing, now they've lost 12 straight and Pop is chastising his own fans between free throws. Life is funny.
 

InstaFace

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Said this before to the whiners and was chastised. Why look in the mirror to self reflect when you can spew anger without recourse of providing a solution or owning your terrible analysis when it’s proven wrong?
Who are you even trying to burn here? Euclis said nothing that I could even remotely construe this as a reply to.
 

Red Averages

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Who are you even trying to burn here? Euclis said nothing that I could even remotely construe this as a reply to.
1/2 of the borderline unreadable Pats threads on this board? It’s almost impossible to have an actual discussion. Same as a Celtics thread after any playoff loss.
 

Devizier

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I definitely didn’t have the full strength Lakers getting absolutely waxed by the Sixers on my bingo card tonight.
 

benhogan

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I definitely didn’t have the full strength Lakers getting absolutely waxed by the Sixers on my bingo card tonight.
44pts is like the waxing Steve Carrell received in the 40yr Old Virgin

Detroit City deserves better...I was assured this summer that they were making logical moves, still looks like the Pistons are a tire fire
 

Kliq

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The Lakers have been pretty lousy all year and play a lot of meh rotation players.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Curious to see what ends up happening with Pop. A few weeks ago Wemby and the Spurs looked a year or two away from competing, now they've lost 12 straight and Pop is chastising his own fans between free throws. Life is funny.
I don't think the Spurs are too upset with losing 12 straight this year. Adding a top talent to Wemby - might be frightening.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The org probably isn't too broken up about it, but I doubt Pop is happy seeing just how far away they are. 74 is pretty freaking old (75 in January).
If Pop really cared, he might end the Sochan as PG experiment. (E.g.). He might also play Wemby at C more.
It's a pretty bad draft though, isn't it?
No idea. But you'd think that with a top 3 or so draft pick, they'd be able to get a pretty good player.
 

InstaFace

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"if you're not going to contend, you might as well suck; nothing is worse than mediocrity" is pretty much an NBA maxim at this point.

Wemby has a few years yet before he's ready to drag a team deep into the playoffs. At least one or two, maybe more. Until then, you're developing skills and instincts, figuring out what style of play makes the best use of your star, and preserving health.

The Thunder getting Durant, Westbrook and Harden with the #2, #4 and #3 picks in consecutive years would've worked spectacularly for them, if they weren't too cheap to go into the luxury tax to retain Harden.
 

slamminsammya

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"if you're not going to contend, you might as well suck; nothing is worse than mediocrity" is pretty much an NBA maxim at this point.
Do people still believe this? I guess it depends how you define mediocrity. Many recent championship contenders never went through a hard tank period. Denver, Milwaukee, Boston (do we count the pre smart years?), Miami. I don't know if even executives believe it.
 

Euclis20

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Do people still believe this? I guess it depends how you define mediocrity. Many recent championship contenders never went through a hard tank period. Denver, Milwaukee, Boston (do we count the pre smart years?), Miami. I don't know if even executives believe it.
The Celtics got the Nets to do their hard tank for them. The Lakers are playing with other people's #1 picks, does that count (and they certainly did their best to tank, getting back to back to back #2 overall picks)? You could make an argument that the only teams currently in the top 10 in the title odds that really tanked their way to contention are the Sixers and Cavs.

An interesting alternate history is what kind of position the Celtics would be in had they not gotten multiple top 3 picks in the KG/Pierce trade (or if they'd botched them by taking some combination of Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Bender/Dunn).
 

HomeRunBaker

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I definitely didn’t have the full strength Lakers getting absolutely waxed by the Sixers on my bingo card tonight.
For the record, not that it would have mattered but the Lakers were without 3 rotation players who get 23+ mpg tonight.
 

jon abbey

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DeAndre Jordan and Reggie Jackson cooking the Clippers is just too good.
Has to be the most embarrassing loss for anyone so far this season, right? In LA, no Jokic, Murray, Gordon, DEN on a back to back coming from DEN, LA with a day in between home games and with all four of their antique superstars playing.
 

TripleOT

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I definitely didn’t have the full strength Lakers getting absolutely waxed by the Sixers on my bingo card tonight.
Can anyone who watched this game explain what the heck LeBron James was doing? He has the strangest line. He played 29:32 and didn’t grab a single rebound, or commit a foul, and took only two FTs. 8-12 from the floor, but took only three, making it. Only 18 points, and a game leading minus 30. Was he an unengaged as his stat line suggests?
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Can anyone who watched this game explain what the heck LeBron James was doing? He has the strangest line. He played 29:32 and didn’t grab a single rebound, or commit a foul, and took only two FTs. 8-12 from the floor, but took only three, making it. Only 18 points, and a game leading minus 30. Was he an unengaged as his stat line suggests?
Weird for sure. Only 4th game in his career without a rebound? Breaks a streak of 1,097 games in a row getting at least one? Gotta happen sometime, I guess.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Can anyone who watched this game explain what the heck LeBron James was doing? He has the strangest line. He played 29:32 and didn’t grab a single rebound, or commit a foul, and took only two FTs. 8-12 from the floor, but took only three, making it. Only 18 points, and a game leading minus 30. Was he an unengaged as his stat line suggests?
The Sixers shotmaking deflated everyone on the Lakers who pretty much went through the motions as it was but every time they would get some offense going Philly would counter. Complete no-show by LA but credit to Philly who never gave them a chance to be in the game.
 

TripleOT

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The Sixers shotmaking deflated everyone on the Lakers who pretty much went through the motions as it was but every time they would get some offense going Philly would counter. Complete no-show by LA but credit to Philly who never gave them a chance to be in the game.
After I posted, I saw a video clip that mentioned the ridiculous amount of threes that Philadelphia hit and that was my thinking that maybe they just gave up. Even with the demoralizing shotmaking, I expect LeBron to get to the line a lot more than just for two free throws in that many minutes. Not getting a rebound is just bizarre.
 

ElUno20

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Do people still believe this? I guess it depends how you define mediocrity. Many recent championship contenders never went through a hard tank period. Denver, Milwaukee, Boston (do we count the pre smart years?), Miami. I don't know if even executives believe it.
That is pretty much the basis for an entire podcast industry (simmons, etc). Just all fake trades and roster tear downs like we're playing madden or nba2k.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Do people still believe this? I guess it depends how you define mediocrity. Many recent championship contenders never went through a hard tank period. Denver, Milwaukee, Boston (do we count the pre smart years?), Miami. I don't know if even executives believe it.
You're of course right that there's several different 'blueprints' among contenders. One reason people still raise the 'hard tank' is that unlike the other ones, you can control fully whether you start it. Denver drafted an MVP in the secound round; Celtics got a once in a generation trade to gift them two top-3 picks; Milwaukee got an MVP in mid-1st round. A team who is, say, looking at a 30-52 season can't control whether any of those things happen, and they surely are trying for all of them, but they can decide we're going to blow it up AND hope that gives us more chances to get those great draft picks.

Miami, yeah, that's an exception....they just believe they can reload. But that's a pretty unique management, ownership and track record (not to mention south beach location).

Also I think you're asking "is tanking a good approach?" and that's always an interesting discussion. I remain of the view that the hypothetical 30-52 team above might be best off tanking, but not process-style...I do think building a reasonable culture (like the Nets did very well pre-Durant/Kyrie) is really helpful to success and to attracting FAs. Many times, part of the theory on tanking is also about your own pick---how do I turn that into a likely top 5ish pick rather than mid-1st with a 30 win team. Again, something you can control in a league where lots of things (not only picks, but who will sign with you and which players want to play with which others) you cannot.
 

Euclis20

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A 30 win team is pretty much always gonna be better off tanking (assuming they don't already have a potential star or two on the roster), that's not a difficult decision. The hard choices come with the 45 win team that doesn't have anyone resembling a top 15 player and seems to have a hard ceiling at second round exit. The biggest current example would be the Knicks, who come with their own unique set of circumstances.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Agreed.

An interesting thread might be something like "You're the GM" where we talk, on an ongoing basis, about those kinds of choices. I'm fascinated by that stuff.

Knicks are a great call of what's interesting---solid team, tough, plays hard. And while they have some assets (contracts, barrett, a lot of so-so 1sts) it's not clear they can add the top-15ish guy they need to be much more than you describe. Is that worthwhile, especially in NY? Even if you add (talent wise) say Paul George what are you ----Brunson/George/Randle or Barrett/Robinson/Quickley/role players...it's 50+ wins, a playoff round or two, but is it really worth it? Other than Embiid, who is conceivably available that generates a different path than that? Tough call...a lot of really bad years for that team and 45 wins and fun is something.

I suspect the actual Knicks beleive they can get a great FA, even if it's not clear who or how.
 

Kliq

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Agreed.

An interesting thread might be something like "You're the GM" where we talk, on an ongoing basis, about those kinds of choices. I'm fascinated by that stuff.

Knicks are a great call of what's interesting---solid team, tough, plays hard. And while they have some assets (contracts, barrett, a lot of so-so 1sts) it's not clear they can add the top-15ish guy they need to be much more than you describe. Is that worthwhile, especially in NY? Even if you add (talent wise) say Paul George what are you ----Brunson/George/Randle or Barrett/Robinson/Quickley/role players...it's 50+ wins, a playoff round or two, but is it really worth it? Other than Embiid, who is conceivably available that generates a different path than that? Tough call...a lot of really bad years for that team and 45 wins and fun is something.

I suspect the actual Knicks beleive they can get a great FA, even if it's not clear who or how.
And a major thing that has changed in recent years is that the truly elite players are not hitting free agency, they are being traded for significant assets, which includes both draft capital and promising young players. Clearing out cap space and pitching your team to a free agent isn't the way to go anymore.
 

ehaz

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It's TMZ but I think this is the first we've heard of a police inquiry into Josh Giddey. Also suggests this happened in California.

"Law enforcement sources tell TMZ Sports ... Newport Beach PD is currently investigating the allegations involving Giddey made on social media over the past week"
 

ehaz

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It's TMZ but I think this is the first we've heard of a police inquiry into Josh Giddey. Also suggests this happened in California.

"Law enforcement sources tell TMZ Sports ... Newport Beach PD is currently investigating the allegations involving Giddey made on social media over the past week"
Confirmed by the LA Times.

“Police provided few details about the ongoing investigation but said it involved a minor and that detectives were looking into whether a crime had occurred, said Sgt. Steve Oberon of the Newport Beach Police Department.”