Different sport, but I was listening to Mark Schlereth on a podcast with Russillo the other day and he mentioned that he consults with like 10+ teams. I’m sure it’s a decent side hustle for some of these folks.
2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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I’m sure. Schlereth isn’t on the #1 national play by play team though. This is the equivalent of Tony Romo working with Josh Allen.
JT only has 2 career. JB got his 3rd the other night. Given, Kawhi has played more,
This is still bugging me, because the TNT seems to be basically replying on a CNN report that still doesn't seem to have been confirmed as of this writing.
ESPN is still reporting 'in talks'.
The Trail Blazers are apparently going to protest the endgame decisions:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39375065/blazers-protest-loss-thunder-frustrating-play
It's futile, of course, because the NBA isn't going to have teams travel just to restart play with 18 seconds left, unless the unfairness was just shocking. And it's true that Billups needs to know that he's still up 1 and that the double-dribble turnover isn't game-deciding if his team plays defense, so why throw a full nutty? But it's also true that the ref was super quick with calling a game-changing tech, and that the initial protests that got Billups the first tech were not so over-the-top that they couldn't have waited a sec or been deferred. True that Billups called for a TO that the ref didn't immediately grant, with possession in that moment not in question. And that Brogdon blatantly double-dribbled, when he should've called a TO himself.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9LHEyPPoKA
What say you, the jury? Suppose the NBA is considering the alternative of "replay the end of the game, but in Portland before the teams' March 6th rematch", minor enough logistical hassles that it's just a question of sporting fairness. Do you give it to them?
I think it clearly should have been a TO, but also looks to me like Billups got a little handsy with the official as he was arguing, so I don't hate the quick T.
These quick technicals given out by the refs, especially at crucial points of the game are infuriating but it looks like Billups may have bumped the arm of the ref when he came out on the floor. Not sure if we'll ever get an explanation from the ref but if thats the case, then it probably warrants the T.
I watched it in real time and I thought Malcolm was calling timeout too, then started to go again. The techs were egregiously bad and wildly uncalled for.
Well, for the last two years, the Cs have been beaten by someone going supernova (Wiggins; Martin) so Dame is as good a bet as anyone else to make it three in a row.
The line was in reference to TerryWell, for the last two years, the Cs have been beaten by someone going supernova (Wiggins; Martin) so Dame is as good a bet as anyone else to make it three in a row.
Amazing the different reactions when the shot goes in. Williams went too early, took a tough mid ranger, but made it. Jaylen did the same thing a few weeks ago, and well
The NBA should fire the official who called the double-dribble in that Portland game and number 30, who called the technical. Literally, review it this morning, ask them for an explanation, and if they say anything other than "it was an egregious mistake, I'll say so publicly, and I need to spend a couple weeks in the G-League" they should be terminated immediately.
There's so many things wrong there it's hard to even specify..
1) Brogdon is fouled, beyond question - he had a scratch on his face from it
2) Brogdon sure seemed to be calling timeout with his hands early on (though I have not heard/seen Portland saying so)
3) You can see Billups yelling something, presumably "timeout"
4) The ball was touched in the scrum, so it isn't clear to me it actually was even a double dribble
5) You blow the four above and then don't even talk to each other to see if anyone saw or heard the timeout (though, I have a level of sympathy for this getting lost by the actions and Billups' reaction--it still should have happened before they did anything else)
6) After blowing 1-5, they had an absurdly quick T. I suppose if they come out say that Billups used a racist or homophobic slur I would feel ok about the T. But as that hasn't been reported there's no other words he could have said that justifies a T in that game situation, period. And that's even more true becuase they blew 1-4 above.
In terms of the contact, the ref turned and bumped into Billups, not the other way around. I get you can argue he's out of the coaching box and that's the T...but that's weak. It is not the case that Billups initiated that contact. In context, it's an atrocious T to call. The ref lost his cool and may have changed the outcome of the game---that's a firable offense, at least it should be, for that job. I guess if you're willing to say any contact, even if incidental, even if it is the ref initiating, is a T that's a way to legislate it but that's not reasonable and also not what they do.
I love it if Portland is challenging the game; teams should do that publicly more often. I get that this usually happens privately, and given the sorry state of NBA officiating and the reality that the refs respond to public pressure, teams should be doing this more to get their story out and to highlight the growing problem wtih bad officiating and bad emotional control (as these techs show).
There's so many things wrong there it's hard to even specify..
1) Brogdon is fouled, beyond question - he had a scratch on his face from it
2) Brogdon sure seemed to be calling timeout with his hands early on (though I have not heard/seen Portland saying so)
3) You can see Billups yelling something, presumably "timeout"
4) The ball was touched in the scrum, so it isn't clear to me it actually was even a double dribble
5) You blow the four above and then don't even talk to each other to see if anyone saw or heard the timeout (though, I have a level of sympathy for this getting lost by the actions and Billups' reaction--it still should have happened before they did anything else)
6) After blowing 1-5, they had an absurdly quick T. I suppose if they come out say that Billups used a racist or homophobic slur I would feel ok about the T. But as that hasn't been reported there's no other words he could have said that justifies a T in that game situation, period. And that's even more true becuase they blew 1-4 above.
In terms of the contact, the ref turned and bumped into Billups, not the other way around. I get you can argue he's out of the coaching box and that's the T...but that's weak. It is not the case that Billups initiated that contact. In context, it's an atrocious T to call. The ref lost his cool and may have changed the outcome of the game---that's a firable offense, at least it should be, for that job. I guess if you're willing to say any contact, even if incidental, even if it is the ref initiating, is a T that's a way to legislate it but that's not reasonable and also not what they do.
I love it if Portland is challenging the game; teams should do that publicly more often. I get that this usually happens privately, and given the sorry state of NBA officiating and the reality that the refs respond to public pressure, teams should be doing this more to get their story out and to highlight the growing problem wtih bad officiating and bad emotional control (as these techs show).
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1) It is not clear at all that Brogdon was fouled
2 We can't tell whether he did call a TO
3) Billups looks like he did in fact call a TO but it was if anything a split second before Brogdon double dribbled
4) It was touched, but he didn't lose possession - it was a double dribble
5) They could/shjould have conferred
6) Billups put his hands on the official as his first move. That is a tech and should be a tech every time
The ref did not turn into Billups. And in fact it seems like the contact was not even what the T was called on, so curious what he said
Should be a juicy Last 2 Minutes report, either way. I'm sure there's someone with a Trail Blazers shirt on standing outside a room in Secaucus tapping his foot right now.
I really do not think it's arguable about the contact---there's arm contact from the first guy, a hand that hits his face (Brogdon showed a scratch from it post-game) and an arm all the way across his body from the first guy. Then the second guy appears to hit him in the face.
The only argument it isn't a foul is "we don't call that near the end of a game" but it's clear and real contact multiple times.
Not calling stuff like that creates an incentive to dive and to throw elbows. And to my eyes it happens a lot on jump ball-type situations. Others can feel like on those kinds of plays the contact is ok, but to me it's an issue. So, to me, the original sin of that play is letting OKC beat him up
The ref very clearly turned back and moved (inadvertently) towards Billups. If you're trying to say Billups shouldn't have been there I agree, and he did have his hands up for sure (and was also moving, at least right before contact). I don't think the ref was chasing Billups here, which we've seen in other contested plays---he was turning to move back towards scorers table, a totally reasonable movement. But a key part of the sequence and contact, too.
It did seem to be the T was after the contact, and that's part of my initial point about what seems egregious here....contact can support any T (even if not a wise judgment) but that doesn't quite seem to be the sequence. Also possible they didn't signal it right away but it was awarded for the contact
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I don’t recall specifics but maybe 20 years ago a protested game was replayed for the final minute or so.
But enough of that….let’s appreciate some Russ.
https://x.com/worldwidewob/status/1749998339981275198?s=46&t=-v8-zMpGeLyzspejEbiVjg
I think to get a replay/redo you have to show a clear misapplication of a rule (or just a mistake) in a process sense, not a judgment one. I can't think of any situations like the Portland one (e.g. a bad judgment call/decision was made) that have ever been actually 'reversed' after the fact.
Here's what perhaps HRB was remembering?
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3/7/17088350/atlanta-hawks-miami-heat-replay-nba-game-march-8-2008
Shaq removed from game with "6" fouls with 51 seconds left. Miami loses. But he actually only had 5 fouls; NBA replays last 51 seconds.
Here's what perhaps HRB was remembering?
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3/7/17088350/atlanta-hawks-miami-heat-replay-nba-game-march-8-2008
Shaq removed from game with "6" fouls with 51 seconds left. Miami loses. But he actually only had 5 fouls; NBA replays last 51 seconds.
Great pull. There are two amazing nuggets from that game:
- The Heat had traded Shaq away to the Suns during the time that had passed between the original Hawks-Heat game and the replayed one. So, despite the fact he was the central reason the game was being replayed, he did not participate in it. (You can probably use this as an example of how Shaq’s legacy has always been so big and booming that even his shadow wobbles everything around it.)
- As part of the Shaq-to-the-Suns trade, the Heat received Shawn Marion. The Suns were playing a game the same night as the original Hawks-Heat game, and all of the stats from the replayed Hawks-Heat game were attributed to the original Hawks-Heat game, meaning that Marion is one of only a handful of players to officially be credited with having played for two different NBA teams on the same night.
They should have a giant red button, like comically giant, that a coach can push to automatically stop the clock and trigger a timeout
Attached to a giant airhorn to scare the shit out of everyone in the building.
Let’s make this a complete sideshow and bring in new casual viewers. Bring back The Gong!
In all seriousness if the NBA determined that coaches calling timeouts is an issue, I suspect they could implement some sort of technological solution given some of the advancements in mobile communications of late. I am all for the giant red button/airhorn idea - I am dead serious too because it *would* add to the entertainment value (I want Doc hammering one of those in disgust...Mazzulla won't ever touch it) - but even if the NBA wants to put on airs to make it more discrete its fine.
I don't think they think calling timeouts are an issue though so no giant red button/airhorn.
I don't think they think calling timeouts are an issue though so no giant red button/airhorn.
I am not seeing a clear foul on Brogdon from this angle. Billups definitely called a TO before the double dribble
https://x.com/ClutchPoints/status/1749998186792423475?s=20
I laughed.
In all seriousness, though, and maybe better for the media forum, it’s pretty shoddy journalistic ethics to be working for an organization you’re covering, especially without transparency.
I know Doc didn’t got to J-School, but someone above him did, and that should not be allowed. The audience is working under the (perhaps naive) assumption that they’re getting third-party coverage from the broadcast team; if one of the announcers is secretly consulting with a team, that’s gross.
It’s one of the reasons I like that Scal always says “we” - there’s no mistaking who signs his paychecks, ultimately.
Haha!! Is this the most lame coverup to avoid the immediate hiring that would lead to questions that the Bucks don’t want to answer? People will beleive that this was seriously a genuine search and hire rather than the reason why Griffin was fired for Doc to take over.
Guys are hitting his arms and his shoulder and his face. The color commentator says flat out "he's getting slapped" To me those are fouls - as always, I could be wrong and others may see it differently but seems very clear to me they should have called a foul (at least, if you let the fouls go you are obligated to let the double dribble escape move go too).
I mentioned it above, and I may just have a different view than you on this - but I think that basic situation (e.g. players are trapping the guy with the ball and trying to create a jump ball) is pretty regularly miscalled. There is no basis for allowing contact there different from other plays, yet we very commonly see guys reaching across the body with contact, or grabbing or contacting the arm on way to trying to tie up the ball. I think this creates a lot of physical stuff, including the guy wtih the ball thrashing arms and elbows around in response. I am all for clean defense, but to me once people are reaching in wtih contact you have to call it or else the situatoin escalates and there's this odd dynamic many times where they allow more contact from defenders who are trying to get a jump ball -and I don't see a reason why that should be.
I do agree with your earlier point that the ball didn't move enough to be considered 'losing possession' to obviate the double dribble.
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Athletic matches.
View: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1750203548476788791
The Milwaukee Bucks are hiring the longtime NBA coach Doc Rivers, people familiar with the matter said, one day after the team fired first-year coach Adrian Griffin.
View: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1750203548476788791
The Milwaukee Bucks are hiring the longtime NBA coach Doc Rivers, people familiar with the matter said, one day after the team fired first-year coach Adrian Griffin.
and may eventually as a coach, but AG was a flash in the pan for the Celtics, a lot of empty stats in a favorable situation (much like the Bucks WL this year).
Man, has anyone ever done less with more than Rivers post-2008? Even that 2008 team had a bunch of players who could competently run the team without input of a coach, so I assume that Rivers' biggest skill was ego management more than Xs and Os. But he has coached insanely talented individuals since then and has nothing to show for it - and this is a guy who leaves rather than face rebuilds (IIRC he finally admitted years later to asking off the Cs once they no longer had the Big 3, even though he denied it at the time). I have no idea why the Bucks think it will be different for them, unless AG was really butting heads with Giannis and Dame.
As a side note, I was always really surprised to hear Rivers after Celtics losses - it seems like he constantly threw players under the bus. "We didn't play hard enough and the guys know that", "we were outhustled", "no energy, bad decisions" seemed like common refrains he would give to reporters which is wild because most coaches usually protect players with drivel like "we need to coach better" or "we'll look at the video and see what adjustments to make". I have no idea if players like Doc, but to a casual Cs fan, it sounded like he did that a lot and I imagine it was grating for at least some players.
As HRB noted yesterday, Doc pre-2008 did an amazing job with Orlando so there is some basis to think he has some coaching skill.
I am not going to defend his post-Celtics stops or that he has evolved as a coach to match the evolution of the game, though, so you're "post 2008" comment is certainly fair.
I am not going to defend his post-Celtics stops or that he has evolved as a coach to match the evolution of the game, though, so you're "post 2008" comment is certainly fair.
Did he? He had a 171-168 record in his time there. Never made it out of the first round of the playoffs (5-10 record), and had prime Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill leading his team
Anunoby has transformed the Knicks on D singlehandedly, they are 10-2 so far with him.
“Dating back to the start of last year, only three players in the NBA have posted a plus/minus north of +200 over any 12-game stretch:
Nikola Jokic (Jan - Feb 2023)
Joel Embiid (Nov - Dec 2023)
and
OG Anunoby (January 2024)”
“Dating back to the start of last year, only three players in the NBA have posted a plus/minus north of +200 over any 12-game stretch:
Nikola Jokic (Jan - Feb 2023)
Joel Embiid (Nov - Dec 2023)
and
OG Anunoby (January 2024)”
Not really the case - had neither the first year and really never had them both in a sustained way becuase HIll never played.
The amazing year was his first there when he had neither of them (nor really anyone good) https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2000.html and still managed to go .500. That's very good coaching work.
Following year he had 4 games of Grant Hill; 43 wins is fine, seems to me.
Third year is 44 wins with 14 games of Grant Hill. Also seems fine to me.
Fourth year is 42 wins with 29 games of Grant Hill. That's getting more iffy.
That first year is great coaching; after that he had a so-so roster (a lot committed to HIll for few games) and prime TMac and won about what you'd expect. If he actually had Hill and TMac and won 43 games I'd say that's bad work---but isn't what he had.
The final 5 minutes of last night, the entire 4th quarter even, were absolutely electric. Some of the most fun I've had watching a basketball game this year. He does so many little things.
He is a fantastic fit on that team. Like everyone in the NBA to some degree but especially the Knicks, they will need more scoring come the playoffs - I wonder how they source it. I know that I wouldn't want to get into a long series with this team or coach - I feel like they have all the pieces to make life hell for an opponent on defense.
Supposedly he’s bringing Joerger with him to run back what they had in Philly. Smart move rendering Griffin’s guys moot.
To be fair, I don't think Doc is the worst coach ever even post-2008. He seems like he is exactly who he has been the last several years: someone who will get a talented roster to the second round, but probably not beyond. if he was coaching the Mavs or the Pels, fans would probably be happy with that outcome. The Bucks, not so much.
Steve Bulpett at Heavy.com on the Griffin firing:
Defense, ‘Bad Decision’ Torpedo Adrian Griffin’s Short Bucks Tenure
https://heavy.com/sports/milwaukee-bucks/adrian-griffin-fired-defense/
Were Griffin and these Bucks really a match?
“Nope,” said one veteran NBA coach. “I said that when they hired him. Adrian was upset and disappointed these last two or three years that he didn’t get a (head coaching) job, but this was the wrong job to take. I said, ‘You’re walking into a situation where they won (58) games in the regular season, the best record in the damn league. You’d better have success — like, immediate success.’
“That was just a bad job for him to take, and it was a bad decision to bring in a first-year head coach with no experience. They should have hired Doc Rivers instead of Adrian Griffin. But I think they looked at Darvin Ham getting to the conference finals with the Lakers his first year after he’d been on their staff under (Mike) Budenholzer.
“But to hire a guy with no head coaching experience for THAT team, I don’t think that was smart at all.”
Defense, ‘Bad Decision’ Torpedo Adrian Griffin’s Short Bucks Tenure
https://heavy.com/sports/milwaukee-bucks/adrian-griffin-fired-defense/
Were Griffin and these Bucks really a match?
“Nope,” said one veteran NBA coach. “I said that when they hired him. Adrian was upset and disappointed these last two or three years that he didn’t get a (head coaching) job, but this was the wrong job to take. I said, ‘You’re walking into a situation where they won (58) games in the regular season, the best record in the damn league. You’d better have success — like, immediate success.’
“That was just a bad job for him to take, and it was a bad decision to bring in a first-year head coach with no experience. They should have hired Doc Rivers instead of Adrian Griffin. But I think they looked at Darvin Ham getting to the conference finals with the Lakers his first year after he’d been on their staff under (Mike) Budenholzer.
“But to hire a guy with no head coaching experience for THAT team, I don’t think that was smart at all.”
Pretty remarkable to think that Doc played with and then later coached Monty Williams, who is now on his third head coaching gig.
Agreed, they definitely need to add a tertiary scorer off the bench, Brogdon seems like the best fit to me but they need to replace Quickley somehow.
