I was surprised that this was his first 20 rebound game. I would have assumed he’d done it a couple times over the preceding 20+ seasons. Pretty cool!
2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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Yeah that was interesting, although rebounding has always been about the only thing (other than outside shooting) that he's merely been good at, not exceptional (for his size, anyway). Kind of wild that Tatum, who is 40 pounds lighter, averaged more rebounds last year (8.8) than Lebron has ever averaged in a season.
Yeah.. LeBron may have been great tonite.. but there have been more games this year when watching the Lakers where you’re wondering if he’s on the floor…which is only noticeable because he’s been so great for so long. Father Time is still undefeated.
Eh they beat a shitty non-playoff team with Davis and James playing the entire game.
They beat Phoenix in the quarters and then whomped the Pelicans by 44 in the semis. That “shitty non-playoff team” also beat our Celtics. What difference does it make that LeBron and Davis “had to play the entire game?” Is there a point deduction for that or something?
You had posters saying he was like an Uncle Drew version of himself, that he showed himself to be a "fraction" of what he used to be (granted a "fraction" could be 15/16ths, but generally that expression is used to indicate signficantly less), and that he's just a distributor now (he's always been a distributor, that's one of the things that has made his game so amazing), he now just "prays his jumpshots go in" (this after he won the game with one of his classic drives to the hoop drawing a foul), that he disappeared for stretches during OT (huh? The guy was the focal point fo the Lakers offense in both OTs; the only time he disappeared was when his PG threw the ball away 3 times in a row -- I think trying to get it to LBJ at least 2 of those 3 times, though would have to check). And he did all that playing 48 minutes and at least to my eyes playing solid defense and rebounding the fuck out of the ball.
Those were all comments about last night's game, not his season.
How does any hoop fan not look at a 36/20/12 stat line that hasn't been seen in the NBA for 55 years – since 1968 (and never by anyone over 31 years old) -- and not say: holy fucking shit that's amazing?
Obviously it's a truism to say Father Time is still undefeated and he undoubtedly takes more plays off as he's aged. But, in terms of the season as a whole rather than last night, last I saw he was in the top 10 in the NBA in advanced stats (see the decline! from #1 to top 10!). Look at the screenshot of his season-to-date stats vs career stats below and tell me who would not notice him/would be wondering if he's even on the floor? That's absurd.
At some point: recognize greatness. This is unprecedented. I made a decision years ago watching MJ that much as I might root against the guy/his team in a particular game/season, I wouldn't fail to recognize greatness. Same here.
Also.. the lakers shot 43 FTs.. Warriors shot 16. Warriors also shot 58 threes to 27 for the Lakers.. but they also had 119 shot attempts to the Lakers 101.
I'll be the first to admit that my disdain for LeBron clouds my judgement....... PTSD from all of those years of him either beating the Celtics or getting every call every time he went down the lane regardless of how much contact he created.
I know he's great.. just looking forward to him retiring.
Edit: And I was the one that said he looked like the Uncle Drew version of himself.. there was one shot of him on the bench where his hair and beard looked particularly gray...and in fairness to me: Uncle Drew still moved pretty good and LeBron does look older than his younger self as he should... there's a ton of wear on that body. I didn't realize that his stats were still so good. I haven't been paying all that much to him or the Lakers so my observations were mainly anecdotal from watching some of his games...and those observations were apparently wrong.
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Bumping this from yesterday because I just saw there were some Thibs quotes about Mitchell Robinson after yesterday's game:
”He’s lifting. He looks like—I don’t know, bodybuilding.”
”Whatever it is that he can do, and it’s a step-by-step progression. So he’ll be in the pool, he’ll be on the bike, and then eventually get to be where he can shoot. He’s shooting a little bit, shooting out of the chair at this point. Just following protocols and getting treatments.”
”He’s been great. He’s in great spirits. So we’re encouraged. Everything’s positive so far. Just let him go through it, and then when he’s ready, he’s ready.”
On Mitchell Robinson’s rehab process...
”He’s lifting. He looks like—I don’t know, bodybuilding.”
”Whatever it is that he can do, and it’s a step-by-step progression. So he’ll be in the pool, he’ll be on the bike, and then eventually get to be where he can shoot. He’s shooting a little bit, shooting out of the chair at this point. Just following protocols and getting treatments.”
”He’s been great. He’s in great spirits. So we’re encouraged. Everything’s positive so far. Just let him go through it, and then when he’s ready, he’s ready.”
I think it demonstrates how good this product is right now. Watching Lebron and Steph going at it even if their teams are disappointing is still wildly entertaining.
Why not use the same age season? LeBron would be 39/11/9 in his 38 year old season.
And TS %- Jordan 46.8 and 49.1 last two seasons.
LeBron? 58.3 and 61.3
Euc, looked to me like Vanderbilt tripped over Shitmond’s foot. No foul and no flop IMO.
My favorite part is this play is watching Davis frozen as if Steph is TJ Frickin McConnell behind the arc.
View: https://twitter.com/nba_paint/status/1751795075909144970?s=20
Nice to see the Pistons get a couple of wins (2 of their last 3!), they have too much talent to threaten the all-time loss record.
NYK optimistic that Randle will be out "weeks not months." https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39416025/sources-optimism-knicks-julius-randle-weeks-not-months
This could be one of those tricky “medically cleared by team doctors” after 2-3 weeks due to this being his right shoulder but not in the best interest of the player to rush out there. Wouldn’t be surprised if we had a Kawhi-like situation brewing.
Kawhi is his own unique situation though (even if I get the logic from his perspective). Randle occasionally looks like he's pouting on the court, but has he ever shown that he's the sort of player who would forcefully sit out against team recommendation?
View: https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1751992728777281866?s=20
Embiid supposedly was hurting against Indy, doesn't appear on the injury report, then just before the Denver game is unavailable. The league is incentivized to look closely at this one because this was supposed to be a major game during "rivalry week," and everyone knows the rivalry isn't between the Nuggets and Sixers, it's Jokic/Embiid. Pulling the rug out at the last second with no warning really took the air out of the whole thing.
All I know is that my SGA for MVP bet is looking better by the day (I know he is unlikely to win so no need for someone here to lecture me how its Embiid's to lose).
Philly is going to get fined for doing something everyone does, but in a much more stupid manner.
leave the bong at home Will
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274460/Will-Barton-Signs-Deal-With-CSKA-Moscow-In-Russia
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274460/Will-Barton-Signs-Deal-With-CSKA-Moscow-In-Russia
The weird thing is Embiid went down hard in the prior game. Why didn't they just stick him on the injury list earlier?
I laughed, and since I was curious, here is what he's done in 2nd round games in which his team was up for elimination:
8 games
3 wins, 5 losses
21.0 ppg
.382 FG%
If calling him a fraud is too harsh, then we can just stick with "frontrunner."
That's a great pull. he has been amazing this year statistically, but I simply am not going to consider him among the top tier of players until he does it in the playoffs. I know there's been all sots of complexity (bad teammates, injuries of various types, etc.) And the track record, even noting all that, is literally worse than James Harden's playoff track record.
Ive been calling Embiid a front runner and “Big Harden” for a little while now
I would bet a lot of money he never wins a thing on a team where he is a primary option.
Multiple reasons why:
-Never in good shape
-Never healthy
-Way too much of his game, especially in gut check time, revolves around grifting the refs/flopping.
IMO, he’s extremely lucky he’s played in Philly where there’s always something going on that can deflect away from Embiid and that he’s got a great story/is a great quote for the media. If either one of those things changed he would be getting raked over the coals regularly.
The whining for MVP and trying to act like the media hates him was the reason for not winning was incredibly embarrassing. The guy also manages to never take responsibility for anything while throwing everyone else under the bus.
Fraud, front runner and loser all apply for him
EDIT: As a side note, I really love how petty Michael Malone is in his press conferences
I would bet a lot of money he never wins a thing on a team where he is a primary option.
Multiple reasons why:
-Never in good shape
-Never healthy
-Way too much of his game, especially in gut check time, revolves around grifting the refs/flopping.
IMO, he’s extremely lucky he’s played in Philly where there’s always something going on that can deflect away from Embiid and that he’s got a great story/is a great quote for the media. If either one of those things changed he would be getting raked over the coals regularly.
The whining for MVP and trying to act like the media hates him was the reason for not winning was incredibly embarrassing. The guy also manages to never take responsibility for anything while throwing everyone else under the bus.
Fraud, front runner and loser all apply for him
EDIT: As a side note, I really love how petty Michael Malone is in his press conferences
I’d like to ask you for your blessing that I may take this post’s hand in marriage. I will cherish and take care of it for as long as I draw breath.
As a fan of pettiness, curious about this -- to what are you referring specifically?
Embiid out again tonight. I think he’s probably accepted that he’s not going to make the cutoff.
In mild defense of Embiid (though I largely agree with the harsh comments here): Zach Lowe has pointed out on several occasions that the Sixers have actually been quite beastly in the playoffs, overall, with him on the floor. Here's a near-complete* list of all the 20+ PPG playoff scorers since 2000 with min. 2000 career playoff minutes, ranked by net rating from DeRozan to Curry (PPG / true shooting / net points per 100 poss. on court).
DeRozan 21.8 / .502 / -8.4
Lillard 25.7 / .561 / -5.3
Carmelo 23.1 / .513 / -4.9
DMitchell 27.8 / .554 / -1.6
Nowitzki 25.3 / .577 / -0.2
Westbrook 24.5 / .508 / +0.9
Jokic 27.5 / .614 / +1.3
George 21.3 / .562 / +2.7
Harden 22.7 / .585 / +2.8
Tatum 23.8 / .569 / +3.0
Kobe 25.6 / .541 / +3.3
Wade 22.3 / .549 / +3.3
Giannis 26.6 / 575 / +4.3
Durant 29.4 / .598 / +4.8
Shaq 24.3 / .565 / +4.9
JMurray 25.0 / .587 / +5.4
LeBron 28.5 / .583 / +5.9
Duncan 20.6 / .548 / +6.0
Embiid 24.0 / .579 / +6.5
Kyrie 23.3 / .564 / +7.2
Kawhi 21.4 / .622 / +7.2
Curry 27.0 / .606 / +7.6
*Apologies for the "near complete" part — can't do thorough filtering since BB-Ref put that feature behind a paywall. Feel free to add names...
DeRozan 21.8 / .502 / -8.4
Lillard 25.7 / .561 / -5.3
Carmelo 23.1 / .513 / -4.9
DMitchell 27.8 / .554 / -1.6
Nowitzki 25.3 / .577 / -0.2
Westbrook 24.5 / .508 / +0.9
Jokic 27.5 / .614 / +1.3
George 21.3 / .562 / +2.7
Harden 22.7 / .585 / +2.8
Tatum 23.8 / .569 / +3.0
Kobe 25.6 / .541 / +3.3
Wade 22.3 / .549 / +3.3
Giannis 26.6 / 575 / +4.3
Durant 29.4 / .598 / +4.8
Shaq 24.3 / .565 / +4.9
JMurray 25.0 / .587 / +5.4
LeBron 28.5 / .583 / +5.9
Duncan 20.6 / .548 / +6.0
Embiid 24.0 / .579 / +6.5
Kyrie 23.3 / .564 / +7.2
Kawhi 21.4 / .622 / +7.2
Curry 27.0 / .606 / +7.6
*Apologies for the "near complete" part — can't do thorough filtering since BB-Ref put that feature behind a paywall. Feel free to add names...
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It would be interesting if you had included games and minutes played but thanks for what you did put together.
I think that chart is a testament to the fact that he can't stay healthy.
I heard someone say recently (maybe it was Lowe's podcast) that the person who was talking believes that Embiid will have one playoff run where he stays healthy and rampages through all of the series and win a championship. He certainly has the talent to do that but hopefully it isn't until BOS has at least one (and perhaps more) championship.
Lowe himself has said the above a couple times—he may well be correct; consider me dubious.
In mild offense of Embiid, the thing that these sorts of comparisons never seem to take into account is that 100% of Embiid's playoff experience is in the two earlier rounds (with nearly half of it coming in round 1), which is generally going to be a lot easier than the conference finals and finals (meaning if Embiid actually advanced past the 2nd round, his rate stats would suffer as his opponents get better). If there was a quick way to compare his playoff numbers with how the rest of the list did just in the first two rounds, that'd be more interesting. This is especially relevant for Embiid, because the huge argument against him isn't that he can't put up great numbers, it's that he's not doing it against top competition, consistently.
It's never too late for him to turn things around and start playing like an MVP in the playoffs, but there's no great defense of what he's done thus far. His scoring volume and efficiency go way, way down in the playoffs, and his defense goes the way of other largely immobile rim protectors (as with Gobert, smart teams move him around to neutralize his paint defense).
Really dumb decisions being made. Albeit not a big deal but if I’m the owners I’m annoyed that it’s going to cost money.
Great point. And it's not just the higher level of competition, but also the fact that by the Conference Finals and Finals, fatigue starts to play an increasingly huge factor, with guys having played 2-3 extra grueling rounds as their opponents' primary defensive targets, plus thousands of extra miles of air travel back and forth, on top of an 82-game grueling regular season. For a guy like Embiid who has often been dinged for his poor conditioning, that's a pretty big deal.
Conversely, the "deep rounds factor" should probably give an extra boost to the performances of guys like Steph (6 Finals in 9 playoff appearances) and LeBron (10 Finals in 16 playoff appearances). And of course MJ (who I would have included if they had play-by-play data for the first 2/3rds of his career). And suggests that DeRozan and Melo were actually even *more* atrocious than their atrocious playoff stats suggest...?
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Last year he had the thing where he called out Lisa Salters for saying she didn’t know much about Jokic, he called out the media for only talking about thecLakers, he took some shots at LeBrom at the parade
Then after the Sixers game he talked about how the league frowns upon people sitting out and basically called for an investigation
I sort of forget now what optimistic Celtics record this season I promised — in Rocco's honor — would make me eat a Wild Harvest Stuffed Log (that includes wood shavings among its ingredients, lol). I'm hoping it was 70 games and that I didn't blurt out 65, which could happen (currently on pace for 62.4).
In any case I'd feel roughly as comfortable making that same promise for the Sixers winning it all with Embiid "rampaging" through four rounds of playoffs.
In any case I'd feel roughly as comfortable making that same promise for the Sixers winning it all with Embiid "rampaging" through four rounds of playoffs.
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Agreed, and to the bold, it's the old saying about political scandals - they can stick if they seem to reinforce what people already believe. If Giannis had pulled out of a rivalry game at the last second with a previously unreported knee issue, no one would bat an eye because he doesn't have a history of dodging tough opponents during the regular season, or disappearing during tough playoff games. Embiid has had this problem for his entire career, so when he has what appears to be a very legit knee injury (that video of him in Indy is not great), he's still gonna get the mountain of shit and ridicule that others won't.
Embiid basically channeling 2000 Shaq and dominating 4 rounds en route to a title would result in more insufferable interviews and media takes than then 72 Dolphins have given us
Jamal Murray with 21 in the first half against the Bucks horrific guard “defense”. They’ll need to keep shooting 43% from 3 to keep it tight in the 2nd half.
