I'm not a lawyer, but the firearm conviction may stand because he hadn't filed an appeal yet.By law, that conviction (as well as the firearm conviction in the double homicide) will be abated and the indictments all dismissed.
I'm not a lawyer, but the firearm conviction may stand because he hadn't filed an appeal yet.By law, that conviction (as well as the firearm conviction in the double homicide) will be abated and the indictments all dismissed.
The conviction isn't "final" as long as the time to appeal hadn't expired. (30 days?)I'm not a lawyer, but the firearm conviction may stand because he hadn't filed an appeal yet.
Thank you... makes sense.The conviction isn't "final" as long as the time to appeal hadn't expired. (30 days?)
It actually looks like you are right. I spoke to a very experienced appellate attorney that I know, and she confirmed that unless a notice of appeal was filed prior to his death, the conviction CANNOT be vacated under the abatement precedent. He may end up going to his grave a convicted felon after all.I'm not a lawyer, but the firearm conviction may stand because he hadn't filed an appeal yet.
KIt actually looks like you are right. I spoke to a very experienced appellate attorney that I know, and she confirmed that unless a notice of appeal was filed prior to his death, the conviction CANNOT be vacated under the abatement precedent. He may end up going to his grave a convicted felon after all.
I'm watching you, InstaFace ...
Not a coincidence. He saw film of George Allen being served after a Rams game in '68, and has been ready for it since then.edit: also, I am amused that Belichick managed to dodge his subpoena to appear as a character witness, due to the fact that he lives in a gated community and the process server couldn't get to him.
So if Odin Lloyd's family filed a civil suit, they would have to start from scratch to show Hernandez's culpability?Yes, since the conviction, by law, is vacated, then it cannot be used as prima facie evidence in a subsequent related civil lawsuit, as can regularly be done with underlying convictions. Having said that, I believe the preponderance of evidence standard for any wrongful death lawsuit with respect to the Lloyd case will not be hard to meet. And transcripts of the murder trial can be utilized in some ways at the civil trial depending on how any evidence comes in through witnesses etc.
I stand corrected.It actually looks like you are right. I spoke to a very experienced appellate attorney that I know, and she confirmed that unless a notice of appeal was filed prior to his death, the conviction CANNOT be vacated under the abatement precedent. He may end up going to his grave a convicted felon after all.
Similiar to the situation when Tom visited the prison housing the former associate of the Corleone family who was going to be the government witness ........And wouldn't it be interesting if AH did this because he knew his conviction would be vacated by committing suicide thus giving his girlfriend and his child a chance at whatever might be left in his estate currently, or through future recovery litigation against the Patriots or media proceeds from his life story.
I don't believe that's the case in any state these days; most (all?) of the laws criminalizing suicide were phased out by the late 1980s-ish (with a few stragglers a bit later).But isn't suicide itself a (ironic) felony?
Tom Brady is always crucial to the plot line.Similiar to the situation when Tom visited the prison housing the former associate of the Corleone family who was going to be the government witness ........
More expensive than the real shit too.That shit will fuck with you... never ever smoke that shit.
There's a joke to be made here about Tebow getting through to him about 10 years too late. This whole thing is too weird and sad for my heart to be in it though.The Bible verse thing is odd. I'm not implying any conspiracy, but that's an odd/awkward place to write on yourself.
Why? There's no res judicata effect of an acquittal on the ability to offer a motive as evidence.I understand all of the legal nuances involved but find it hard to believe that they played in to Hernandez' planning. If he were going to kill himself to void the conviction why wait until now? He could have done it anytime prior to the completion of the latest trial with the same effect - why risk the chance of having to appeal a possible double conviction? And people are forgetting that the recent acquittal gave him a better (though by no means a good) chance of overturning the prior conviction. Remember - that conviction was at least partially obtained on the theory that AH killed Odin to cover up the fact that he killed the two nightclub patrons. Now that theory cannot be advanced at all - Hernandez has been acquitted of that charge.
I understand all of the legal nuances involved but find it hard to believe that they played in to Hernandez' planning. If he were going to kill himself to void the conviction why wait until now? He could have done it anytime prior to the completion of the latest trial with the same effect - why risk the chance of having to appeal a possible double conviction? And people are forgetting that the recent acquittal gave him a better (though by no means a good) chance of overturning the prior conviction. Remember - that conviction was at least partially obtained on the theory that AH killed Odin to cover up the fact that he killed the two nightclub patrons. Now that theory cannot be advanced at all - Hernandez has been acquitted of that charge. Any grounds for a new trial - improper venue, a juror who comes forward and alleges something, incompetent counsel (all long shots, I concede) - but any one of them that sticks - he's back in with a second bite at the apple and a much better chance of getting off. So why - knowing that - does he kill himself now? There are really only two logical conclusions - one, he was so depressed at having "won" only to face staring at the same four walls for the rest of his life that he decided that that would be only a short time if he had any say in the matter - and, two, he was killed by someone on the inside. I think option 1 is more likely - but, knowing how hard it is to kill yourself in prison (it ain't easy) and how things can sometimes be "arranged" - I think there is a 40% chance this was an "assisted" suicide.
Pretty much. But like I said the transcripts from the criminal trial will help, discovery will now be easily obtainable and they effectively already have a road map in place for preparation. And given the lesser standard of proof, this should be very easily winnable case if it even goes to trial. They don't even have to show specific intent/premeditation or malice aforethought like with 1st degree murder. For wrongful death all they have to show is negligence causing death (or willful, reckless and wanton conduct or "gross" negligence to get punitive damages). His defense at the criminal trial pretty much conceded him calling up his Conn. boys to come up to Mass. and putting all 3 of them together with Lloyd at the scene of the murder but tried to argue he was an "unwilling participant". Good luck arguing that in the civil case!So if Odin Lloyd's family filed a civil suit, they would have to start from scratch to show Hernandez's culpability?
Isn't that the stuff Chandler Jones smoked before his barefoot sojourn to the Foxboro police station a couple years ago?And he was possibly smoking Synthetic Weed (k2) last night:
And below that he wrote "I'm with MiLB"The Bible verse thing is odd. I'm not implying any conspiracy, but that's an odd/awkward place to write on yourself.
That's hilarious. I'm guessing her trial record was so bad, she was looking to try him in absentia for better odds.Late to the party.
I think all the bases have been covered in the thread - though I don't believe people have mentioned the attorneys fees going to the defense. They'll be substantial. That said, 40 million is a lot to go through. There should be enough there for someone to take the Lloyd family on contingency and attempt a redo (if no settlement) of the Lloyd criminal trial. Frankly, bizarro scenarios aside, I didn't see how a criminal jury would outright acquit. Therefore I can't imagine a civil jury finding for Hernandez's estate under the lesser standard.
Also, the families of the two young men who were shot should be able to file a wrongful death action. That case might be fundamentally weaker though.
And Bradley may have a civil suit still pending.
I would be shocked if there wasn't a will. But, would it surprise anyone if the GF sued the estate?
I think the fallout of this has the potential to be very messy.
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In terms of vacating a conviction-pending-appeal upon death, it might make more sense if you view it through the "presumption of innocence" lens along with the "fair trial" lens. I mean, clearly, if one is presumed innocent and dies before trial, there can't be a conviction. This is similar.
I've only had one criminal client die pre-trial. The prosecutor kept threatening to try the case because corrections couldn't produce a death certificate to her liking. To this day I have no idea what she was on about, but it may have been a slightly irrational response to pressure from the victim. But, I mean, what are you going to do, wheel the corpse out there and have a trial?
I was thinking the same. I'd bet they mean hand and not head.The Bible verse thing is odd. I'm not implying any conspiracy, but that's an odd/awkward place to write on yourself.
For Pats players, it's a little hotter.Whats the drug policy in hell?
It's interesting. Under normal circumstances, anything held in a joint tenancy with a right of survivorship skips the estate and probate and becomes the sole property of the surviving joint tenant by operation of the death itself. Most joint bank accounts are JTROS by default. Lots of real property is by deed.Late to the party.
I think all the bases have been covered in the thread - though I don't believe people have mentioned the attorneys fees going to the defense. They'll be substantial. That said, 40 million is a lot to go through. There should be enough there for someone to take the Lloyd family on contingency and attempt a redo (if no settlement) of the Lloyd criminal trial. Frankly, bizarro scenarios aside, I didn't see how a criminal jury would outright acquit. Therefore I can't imagine a civil jury finding for Hernandez's estate under the lesser standard.
Everyone always concentrates on the end of that verse (because it's more anthrocentric). In light of what I wrote above, the "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son . . . ." bit might be more interesting. Fucking humans making the direct object of the verse the important thing: if you believe in divine inspiration, it's God bragging about how awesome he is.The Bible verse thing is odd. I'm not implying any conspiracy, but that's an odd/awkward place to write on yourself.
I'm sorry, we were looking for "The ruling on the field has been overturned..."
This is the "Hold my beer" meme that's been circulating today.LeGarrette Blount: In protest of the Trump presidency, I will not be attending the White House visit.
Chris Long: Me neither.
Alan Branch: Nor myself.
Dont’a Hightower: I will also not be going.
Martellus Bennett: Count me out.
Devin McCourty: I'm taking a stand.
Aaron Hernandez: Hold my beer.
Sweet tea > Sweet LeafStill choked less than the Falcons.