Active Hall of Famers

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I couldn't help but notice that Frank Gore moved into the #8 spot on the rushing list tonight, moving past Tony Dorsett. It's pretty unlikely that he will pass Eric Dickerson this season, but he's under contract for next year and short of injury or severe drop off, he will likely finish the 2017 season in the top five for rushing yards. He could presumably hold on and finish above Curtis Martin, but his ceiling seems to be #4, albeit short lived as Adrian Peterson is a couple years younger and will most likely pass him in the long run. So, Gore will most likely end up as the #5 rusher when his name comes up for induction.

I guess this is just my mind wandering and being bored, but I've never thought of Frank Gore as a HoFer. But he has to be right? On top of his rushing totals, he has been a solid receiving back. His TD totals have never been high - he reached 13 once - but he's quietly produced a career that deserves merit.

It got me thinking on who else amongst active players is a HoFer?

You have the obvious in my mind:

Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Darelle Revis
Larry Fitzgerald
Joe Thomas
Jason Whitten
Demarcus Ware
Aaron Rodgers
Adam Vinatieri
Adrian Peterson

Those seems like locks.

Who's borderline or headed to lock, barring career ending injury or steep decline?

Richard Sherman
Earl Thomas
Rob Gronkowski
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Eli Manning (maybe he's already in with two rings?)
Von Miller
JJ Watt
Luke Keuchly
Julius Peppers
Clay Matthews
Ndamukong Suh

I won't propose guys early in their careers, because, well, it's early.

The thing I notice most is the lack of offensive lineman and interior defensive lineman.

Who am I overlooking?

Anyway, I guess the first question persists. Is Frank Gore a HoFer?

 

[BigSoxFan]

On the QB front, Rivers and Romo. I think Patrick Peterson is a HOF caliber talent.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

On the QB front, Rivers and Romo. I think Patrick Peterson is a HOF caliber talent.

Romo and Rivers are borderline, I assume?

I think the injuries have been too much for Romo. Rivers has stayed healthy, but has never had a signature season and he doesn't stack up imo. Neither have any postseason success.

Edit: I can see the argument I just disagree.

 

[SumnerH]

Romo was never a top 3 QB and rarely if ever top 5, and in aggregate doesn't move up significantly-over the course of his career, Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger were pretty consistently better, and there are semi-overlaps with Favre and the like and probable betters like Rivers and Eli. Plus whatever Luck or Newton or similar wind up doing.

If he's a HoFer, the HoF is worthless.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

As to Peterson, I think there's a lot of HOF caliber talent, but a lot that is far off.

Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Cam Newton
Antonio Brown
OBJ
Le'veon Bell


Even further out, guys like Amari Cooper or even rookies like Ezekiel Elliot. But that's way way way down the road.

In review, should Eric Berry be on the borderline list?

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Romo was never a top 3 QB and rarely if ever top 5, and in aggregate doesn't move up significantly-over the course of his career, Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger were pretty consistently better, and there are semi-overlaps with Favre and the like and probable betters like Rivers and Eli. Plus whatever Luck or similar wind up doing.

If he's a HoFer, the HoF is worthless.

I agree with your overall point, but I think you could argue that in 2014 he was definitely a top 3 QB and his 2011 season was on par with Brady and at least top five, amongst other seasons. He's got a 97.1 career rating. That's #3 all time. Ratings are juiced with rule changes so that needs to be taken in context but he has numbers to at least talk about, I guess.

Again, I agree, but I think his case falls apart in that he's done nothing in the playoffs, his injuries deplete his counting stats and his team's seem to always underachieve (be it his fault or not). Were he more dominant or successful he could overcome the injuries. But he has never been either.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Steve Smith is a HOFer or a borderline HOFer.

 

[loshjott]

Justin Tucker, if he makes his postseason bones (which I hope he doesn't....).

 

[Saints Rest]

WRs are likely to be diminished as the league has become such a passing league.

I also think that peak performance may become more highly valued if we continue to see players retire early due to fear of injury/concussion.

But for the same reason, if it becomes more rare to have long successful careers, a la Gore, it may help those candidates.

On the OLine, I wonder if old friend, Logan Mankins, sees some support.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I do think that Gore gets in but if the choice was mine I would leave him in the very good/not HOF category. I know he is a RB and not a WR/QB but with l the pro-offense rule changes the field is just tilted now for any offensive player. Gore has put up great counting stats but in my mind you need to at some point adjust for the era in which they played. Gore has been blessed with longevity in an era slanted toward offensive production. Not to take away his accomplishments but being above average for a long time and picking up lots of counting stats does not qualify one for the HOF. At least in my view

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Joe Thomas is a hall of famer. 9 pro bowls and 7 first team all pros. He has been the dominant left tackle in the league for a decade. But he is easy to forget because Cleveland.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Freeney?

Marshall Yanda?

Suggs won a DPOY and SBs so he has a chance.

Geno Atkins.

Jason Peters has 8 Pro Bowls I believe so he has a shot.

 

[Hoya81]

I've always thought that Wilfork might have an outside shot at the HOF despite not playing a high production position. 4 1st/2nd team All Pros, 5 pro bowls and played in 4 Super Bowls is a strong resume.

 

[Devizier]

You forgot Antonio Gates, who is a lock (8 pro bowls, 3 all-pro, 3rd most receiving yards of any TE)
Peppers is a lock (9 pro bowls, 3 all-pro)

I think Nick Mangold gets in (7 pro bowls, 2 all pro, one of the brights spots for the Jets in this era)
Same goes for Jahari Evans (6 pro bowls, 4 all pro, superbowl ring)

Thinking on it, Dwight Freeney makes it, too (7 pro bowls, 3 all pro).

Guys who probably wont make it, but are close:
Rivers, Steve Smith, Suggs

Patrick Peterson belongs in the "on the path" category

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

You forgot Antonio Gates, who is a lock (8 pro bowls, 3 all-pro, 3rd most receiving yards of any TE)
Peppers is a lock (9 pro bowls, 3 all-pro)

I think Nick Mangold gets in (7 pro bowls, 2 all pro, one of the brights spots for the Jets in this era)
Same goes for Jahari Evans (6 pro bowls, 4 all pro, superbowl ring)

Thinking on it, Dwight Freeney makes it, too (7 pro bowls, 3 all pro).

Guys who probably wont make it, but are close:
Rivers, Steve Smith, Suggs

Patrick Peterson belongs in the "on the path" category

You nailed all of my "these guys too" post.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Anquan Boldin. Good chance at ending up in Top 10 in both receptions and receiving yards.

 

[Marciano490]

As to Peterson, I think there's a lot of HOF caliber talent, but a lot that is far off.

Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Cam Newton
Antonio Brown
OBJ
Le'veon Bell


Even further out, guys like Amari Cooper or even rookies like Ezekiel Elliot. But that's way way way down the road.

In review, should Eric Berry be on the borderline list?

Thomas seems to be trending in the wrong direction, though obviously a lot of that is Siemian stain. He had a very good 4 year peak, but the last two year have been just above average.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

How about Tyron Smith? He is only 25 years old (came into the league at 20) and has consistently been the best left tackle not named Joe Thomas. 3 pro bowls, one first team all pro (plus two second teams). Maybe a bit young for a lock, but certainly an "on the path" guy.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

Rivers won't get in due to contemporaries/era and lack of playoff success but I think he absolutely should. Never missed a start since he became the starter with a 113 ANY/A+ which adjusts for era. That's only behind Brady/Peyton/Rodgers/Brees/Romo in this era (and he's made 45 more starts than Romo) and as far as I can tell, Fouts, Staubach, Montana, Young and Marino are the only post-merger HOFers with a higher number. He's a far more deserving candidate than Eli who will definitely get in.

 

[InstaFace]

Joe Thomas is a hall of famer. 9 pro bowls and 7 first team all pros. He has been the dominant left tackle in the league for a decade. But he is easy to forget because Cleveland.

Fans of John Hannah surely wouldn't overlook a great LT who labored in obscurity because his teammates and management sucked.

 

[Shelterdog]

Fans of John Hannah surely wouldn't overlook a great LT who labored in obscurity because his teammates and management sucked.

Yeah but would fans of Bruce Armstrong?

(6 pro bowls and two second team all pros so night quite the player Thomas is)

 

[tims4wins]

I saw Cam Newton mentioned upthread. I'd be stunned.

On the other hand, Russell Wilson seems on the path.

 

[Kliq]

Andre Johnson just retired last month but he is a slam dunk. Yeah WR stats are going to be skewered but good god look at the QBs he has had over his career.

Did anyone mention James Harrison or Antonio Brown? I also think Robert Mathis, Justin Houston, Gronk and Shane Lechler have a chance.

 

[Bellhorn]

Ghost might have a shot if he has a strong finish to his career, including some signature postseason moments.

 

[Marciano490]

For people mentioning punters and placekickers - there are only 4 total in the HoF, including one punter, Ray Guy, who took forever to get in. I believe Jan Stanerud is the only placekicker who played his entire career as just a kicker to get in. Lechler is maybe the best punter ever, and Vinatieri's resume is incredible, but I'd be surprised if one, much less both, got in, and Ghost is very remote.

 

[edmunddantes]

I think Vinatieri is getting in, but as you noted it's going to take an insane resume for him to do it.

He also has several clutch signature kicks to help with his already good kicking numbers. If he just had the numbers, I don't think he gets in.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Steve Smith is a HOFer or a borderline HOFer.

He's a shoe in in my opinion.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Andre Johnson just retired last month but he is a slam dunk. Yeah WR stats are going to be skewered but good god look at the QBs he has had over his career.

Did anyone mention James Harrison or Antonio Brown? I also think Robert Mathis, Justin Houston, Gronk and Shane Lechler have a chance.

No, no, maybe, no, no, needs more time and no.

 

[nothumb]

I do think that Gore gets in but if the choice was mine I would leave him in the very good/not HOF category. I know he is a RB and not a WR/QB but with l the pro-offense rule changes the field is just tilted now for any offensive player. Gore has put up great counting stats but in my mind you need to at some point adjust for the era in which they played. Gore has been blessed with longevity in an era slanted toward offensive production. Not to take away his accomplishments but being above average for a long time and picking up lots of counting stats does not qualify one for the HOF. At least in my view

It's a more prolific offensive era, but also a very pass heavy one, and one in which teams have gone away from feature backs somewhat.

I mean, if being top 5 all time in rushing yards (while also being recognized as being very good in other areas, extremely durable and a model citizen) doesn't get you in, what does?

 

[Kliq]

No, no, maybe, no, no, needs more time and no.

So....you don't think Andre Johnson is a Hall of Famer?

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

So....you don't think Andre Johnson is a Hall of Famer?

I don't think so, no. I think that the bar for WRs has gotten very high very fast. I think he is a lot like Isaac Bruce, who I think is not going to make it in. Johnson COULD get in (and I certainly wouldn't be horrified if he did), but there are guys ahead of him in terms of total career yardage who are very impressive:

Terrell Owens (should get in. Better receiver than anyone not named Jerry Rice)
Isaac Bruce (very similar career to Johnson, better overall numbers, won a championship to which he contributed, not even selected to be a finalist in last year's class, but may make it as a finalist this year)
Steve Smith
Reggie Wayne
Larry Fitzgerald

and that doesn't include Hines Ward and Torry Holt, who have a surprising level of support for the hall.

Again, to reiterate, I would not be upset if he made it in. He is, at worst, right on the borderline. But I think that the level of scrutiny has gotten very high.

 

[Kliq]

I don't think so, no. I think that the bar for WRs has gotten very high very fast. I think he is a lot like Isaac Bruce, who I think is not going to make it in. Johnson COULD get in (and I certainly wouldn't be horrified if he did), but there are guys ahead of him in terms of total career yardage who are very impressive:

Terrell Owens (should get in. Better receiver than anyone not named Jerry Rice)
Isaac Bruce (very similar career to Johnson, better overall numbers, won a championship to which he contributed, not even selected to be a finalist in last year's class, but may make it as a finalist this year)
Steve Smith
Reggie Wayne
Larry Fitzgerald

and that doesn't include Hines Ward and Torry Holt, who have a surprising level of support for the hall.

Again, to reiterate, I would not be upset if he made it in. He is, at worst, right on the borderline. But I think that the level of scrutiny has gotten very high.

I agree that the bar has been raised and there are a lot of guys with big numbers coming up. Owens should obviously get in and Fitz is a lock especially because he is aging so well. I think Johnson should get in because he put up comparable numbers to all of those guys you listed and had by far the worst QB situation except for maybe Steve Smith. Bruce played with MVP- level QB play; Johnson played with David Carr and Matt Schaub.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I agree that the bar has been raised and there are a lot of guys with big numbers coming up. Owens should obviously get in and Fitz is a lock especially because he is aging so well. I think Johnson should get in because he put up comparable numbers to all of those guys you listed and had by far the worst QB situation except for maybe Steve Smith. Bruce played with MVP- level QB play; Johnson played with David Carr and Matt Schaub.

Bruce played with top flight talent for a few years, but look at the LA Rams QBs during his career and remember that for a number of years, Warner was uneven and Marc Bulger always sucked. He started with the Rams in 1994.....with Chris Miller, then Tony Banks, then the Warner/Bulger "strikes of brilliance surrounded by What the heck???" era. He got two amazing years from Warner, but Warner then went on to not start for the Giants for a few years for a reason.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

I don't think so, no. I think that the bar for WRs has gotten very high very fast. I think he is a lot like Isaac Bruce, who I think is not going to make it in. Johnson COULD get in (and I certainly wouldn't be horrified if he did), but there are guys ahead of him in terms of total career yardage who are very impressive:

Terrell Owens (should get in. Better receiver than anyone not named Jerry Rice)
Isaac Bruce (very similar career to Johnson, better overall numbers, won a championship to which he contributed, not even selected to be a finalist in last year's class, but may make it as a finalist this year)
Steve Smith
Reggie Wayne
Larry Fitzgerald

and that doesn't include Hines Ward and Torry Holt, who have a surprising level of support for the hall.

Again, to reiterate, I would not be upset if he made it in. He is, at worst, right on the borderline. But I think that the level of scrutiny has gotten very high.

Agree that it would be insane to not have Owens in the hall, but... Better than Randy Moss? That's banana pants crazy town.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Agree that it would be insane to not have Owens in the hall, but... Better than Randy Moss? That's banana pants crazy town.

Well actually.....it's not. Let's break it down.

1) Let's start with the high level numbers. Owens had 1,079 rec for 15,900 yards over 15 seasons to Moss' 982 for 15,300 over 14. Basically a wash for HoF purposes.
2) Moss played with better talent around him. He was a stud in Minneapolis and NE, where he had fellow HoF'er AC catching passes on the other side, and in NE I don't need to tell you about all the talent he had playing with him, just assume that I am insulting any one of them and you will spew forth the case for them immediately. ;-). Owens started his career with Jerry Rice, but Rice got injured a bunch of times while Owens was there. Owens was there with JJ Stokes et al early in his career. By the end at SF it was Terrell and no one else. Seriously, look at the 2003 roster. Oof. And in Philadelphia.....well.....it may have been even worse.
3) In both of their cases, you have to take "amazeballs guy" with "guy who took a dump all over his team." guy. Owens took a monster dump on the 2005 Eagles (although he averaged 100 yards per game receiving through the seven he played.) Moss took multiple dumps on multiple teams; the Raiders, the Vikings, the Titans, the Vikings again..........you never knew who was showing up on any given day. And I know that you won't like this one, but I do think that Moss was part of the reason why the 2007 team didn't win the SB. Owens was a dingbat who did whacky shit, but he stayed out of the jail cell. Moss decided to celebrate the perfect regular season by whacking his girlfriend around. In the next three games, having averaged 6 receptions and 90+ yards per game, he got 1 reception for <20 yards in game 1, 1 reception for <20 yards in game 2 and in the Super Bowl was 5 for 62. One man's opinion, and I know you have a strong opinion on this stuff, but to me, Randy Moss cost the Patriots the perfect season more than any other player.
4) Moss gets credit for "Straight cash homey" as it is one of the best lines ever said with a straight face to a locker room reporter ever in the history of ever. But Owens did do sit ups in his driveway and spike the ball on the Dallas star.

If I needed one player for one game and I got him when his head was on straight, I might well take Randy Moss. None of what is written above is to imply that there is a ton of margin between them, there isn't, they were both absolutely amazing. But if I had to choose one for a full season, or multiple seasons, I would take Owens.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Tough to pin that one on any non-O lineman, but sure.

We will agree to disagree. I think Owens is a top five receiver all time and all the extraneous stuff is unfairly held against his otherworldly talent, but I think the GOAT conversation basically boils down to Rice or Moss, and there is no door #3.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Tough to pin that one on any non-O lineman, but sure.

We will agree to disagree. I think Owens is a top five receiver all time and all the extraneous stuff is unfairly held against his otherworldly talent, but I think the GOAT conversation basically boils down to Rice or Moss, and there is no door #3.

The GOAT conversation doesn't even have Randy Moss as a polite mention. He is, quite literally, 7,000 yards short of the GOAT, and to frame up what I perceive to be your blind spot a bit better, Moss was a Raider for two seasons, at ages 28 and 29. In those two seasons, he dogged it despite having a huge contract and racked up 1,558 receiving yards over both seasons. At age 39 Jerry Rice signed with the Raiders and in his first two seasons racked up 2,350 yards receiving in two seasons.

Moss is fun to watch on tv now, but unfortunately for many, his form of asshole cost his teams production. Owens' form was just goofy and annoyed teammates, but year in and year out he was an amazing receiver.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

4) Moss gets credit for "Straight cash homey" as it is one of the best lines ever said with a straight face to a locker room reporter ever in the history of ever. But Owens did do sit ups in his driveway and spike the ball on the Dallas star.

Moss also deserves credit for nearly killing Joe Buck with a TD celebration.

 

[Marciano490]

Two points: 1) I thought Straight Cash Homey was in the parking lot. I seem to remember seeing the footage shot through a chain link fence; 2) any conversation about TO, and his tombstone, needs to mention that broken-leg SB performance. That was Jimmy Young in the 7th Round against Foreman tough.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Two points: 1) I thought Straight Cash Homey was in the parking lot. I seem to remember seeing the footage shot through a chain link fence; 2) any conversation about TO, and his tombstone, needs to mention that broken-leg SB performance. That was Jimmy Young in the 7th Round against Foreman tough.

Straight Cash Homie was while he was getting into his car.

 

[Kliq]

Rice is the best WR ever; Moss was the most talented.

 

[luckiestman]

Rice is the best WR ever; Moss was the most talented.

The ability and willingness to work extremely hard is a talent

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Moss also deserves credit for nearly killing Joe Buck with a TD celebration.

Hey, I never said he was ALL bad

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Two points: 1) I thought Straight Cash Homey was in the parking lot. I seem to remember seeing the footage shot through a chain link fence; 2) any conversation about TO, and his tombstone, needs to mention that broken-leg SB performance. That was Jimmy Young in the 7th Round against Foreman tough.

Yes, Moss said it in the parking lot, but I thought he said it to the Patriots beat writers, no?

 

[luckiestman]

Moss also deserves credit for nearly killing Joe Buck with a TD celebration.

I hate Joe Buck on the mic for a lot of reasons, but the call on that celebration is at the top of the list. I'd like to watch him and Lupica fight to the death and then feed the winner to the lions

 

[Marciano490]

Yes, Moss said it in the parking lot, but I thought he said it to the Patriots beat writers, no?

Minnesota with a radio EP:

https://www.minnpost.com/braublog/2010/10/randy-moss-memories-story-behind-straight-cash-homey

I forgot how much I loved that clip.

 

[luckiestman]

What could have been

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

That is such a great clip.

 

[Marciano490]

I'd forgotten about the mooning celebration, too. It's hard not to love Moss. He's done some terrible things, though, and I had no idea about the domestic abuse before the Super Bowl. Was that common knowledge?

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I'd forgotten about the mooning celebration, too. It's hard not to love Moss. He's done some terrible things, though, and I had no idea about the domestic abuse before the Super Bowl. Was that common knowledge?

Consensual horseplay.