Bo Horvat traded to the Islanders
View: https://twitter.com/canucks/status/1620190951183646720?s=46&t=pbdDTbcuJtAmujZIbpVxqg
View: https://twitter.com/canucks/status/1620190951183646720?s=46&t=pbdDTbcuJtAmujZIbpVxqg
Could they have even done that deal cap wise? Personally I’d rather add another good defenseman if we’re dealing too prospects and 1st rounders.Uh, ouch. And out of nowhere.
Kane now?
A comparable package from us would have been Lysell, Frederic, 1st rounder (but very likely will be worse than NYI's...)
They would have had to move more money. Not sure what Lou is doing here. He has Barzal, Nelson, JGP, and Czizikas already under contract long term at center.Could they have even done that deal cap wise? Personally I’d rather add another good defenseman if we’re dealing too prospects and 1st rounders.
They're probably thinking that he could help push them into the playoffs, and then anything can happen.Don't understand this move from an Islanders POV.
I think this is it...Lous feels like they either a) make a miracle run at the playoffs or b) he can get more at the deadline than he gave up.Don’t rule out Lou trading Horvat if they’re not close enough to the playoffs nor an extension.
Yeah, he's essentially dealt 4 first round picks in a row (could be 4 of 5 depending on how this picks shakes out). 2020 for JG Pageau, 2021 for Palmieri and the corpse of Travis Zajac, 2022 for Alex Romanov and 2023 or 2024 for Horvat. That's typically not sustainable. Also, most of the public models have the Islanders playoff chances at around 15%. I don't think Horvat moves the needle for them all that much. Beauvillier is junk and overpaid, Raty seems like an OK prospect but nothing to write home about so those aren't huge losses, but that pick could sting. 2023 is supposedly a deep draft so if it falls in that 13-16 range that could be a nice prospect for Vancouver. If the pick is top 12 and thus gets transfered to an unprotected 2024, then the Canucks could get a top 10 pick given the current state of the Islanders (old, mediocre no cap flexibility, diminished far system, etc.).Lou is like a degenerate gambler at 5am in the casino maxing out the credit cards and letting the mortgage money ride to save his job. This trade is why you don’t let your GM run your team on an expiring contract. This is the kind of deal you get.
Vancouver bungled the asset that is Horvat. Kevin Weekes heard that Vancouver didn't even shop the Islanders offer around. Either they don't know what they're doing or they really love Beauvillier and Raty for some reason.Yeah, he's essentially dealt 4 first round picks in a row (could be 4 of 5 depending on how this picks shakes out). 2020 for JG Pageau, 2021 for Palmieri and the corpse of Travis Zajac, 2022 for Alex Romanov and 2023 or 2024 for Horvat. That's typically not sustainable. Also, most of the public models have the Islanders playoff chances at around 15%. I don't think Horvat moves the needle for them all that much. Beauvillier is junk and overpaid, Raty seems like an OK prospect but nothing to write home about so those aren't huge losses, but that pick could sting. 2023 is supposedly a deep draft so if it falls in that 13-16 range that could be a nice prospect for Vancouver. If the pick is top 12 and thus gets transfered to an unprotected 2024, then the Canucks could get a top 10 pick given the current state of the Islanders (old, mediocre no cap flexibility, diminished far system, etc.).
The pick is a nice get for Vancouver but the rest is pretty blah. Beauvillier is an overpaid 3rd line winger with some term (signed through next year). But Jim said he wanted NHL players, so I guess Beauvillier qualifies as an NHL player. Raty is a flier on a prospect who's current production in the AHL is nothing special. They didn't even clear off any cap space, which is something Jimbo said was a goal of his. I guess they could try to pump and dump Beauvillier but the contract might make that more challenging that it appears. They weren't going to get a better pick than the one they got from the Islanders but they probably could've gotten a lot better secondary pieces from another team.
Not sure about hockey, but I've heard of MLB GMs saying the equivalent of "don't use us. shop it around and the deal is off." Maybe Lou gave Van a take it leave itVancouver bungled the asset that is Horvat. Kevin Weekes heard that Vancouver didn't even shop the Islanders offer around. Either they don't know what they're doing or they really love Beauvillier and Raty for some reason.
View: https://twitter.com/KevinWeekes/status/1620459951956299776?s=20&t=e_Fs7ZQUFncpxJld0zMHJQ
Then you leave it unless it’s a godfather offer, which that was not.Not sure about hockey, but I've heard of MLB GMs saying the equivalent of "don't use us. shop it around and the deal is off." Maybe Lou gave Van a take it leave it
Given Lou's history, I'm almost certain this is how it happened. He made the offer, gave Vacouver an expiration date and told htem they can't shop it around or it's off.Not sure about hockey, but I've heard of MLB GMs saying the equivalent of "don't use us. shop it around and the deal is off." Maybe Lou gave Van a take it leave it
Yeah agreed that Toews has a better-defined potential role on the Bruins than Kane. I think he'd a be a perfect fit for what would amount to a checking line with Coyle and maybe Zacha or Frederic. Plus he owes us for 2013.Yeah, Kane is scoring 1.48 points per 60 at 5x5. That would put him in the company of AJ Greer (1.49) on the Bruins. He doesn't provide much value elsewhere. His power play production has been decent, a little more than what Krejci's been giving the Bruins, but the Bruins aren't in search of a PP weapon. There's also chatter he's playing hurt. He'd be cheap as hell and there's the whole put him on the 3rd line against softer competition thing but I don't think he gives a ton of value.
Toews feels more in their wheelhouse to me. His production cratered a while ago but may provide some value elsewhere. I haven't looked at his defensive impacts but I think one thing he has going for him is that he is a lefty center and has the highest faceoff win percentage in the league. The Bruins centers are all right handed except for Nosek. I'm not a huge fan of faceoff percentage but I do think there is some value in having a faceoff ace that can be deployed situationally.
I'm not sure either will be on the Bruins radar but I would suspect Toews would be of more interest to the Bruins than Kane.
I have to think that Lamoriello's 1-year deal plays into this - and it's a good example of why you don't want GMs on 1-year deals. If he doesn't sign Horvat, and Horvat walks at the end of the season, Lou looks like an idiot and is likely canned. But if he overpays for Horvat at least he keeps his job (for now, until Horvat is putting up 2nd line C numbers in 3 years...if that).I love Lou Lamoriello’s reaction:
“It’s too long & it’s too much money.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nhl/islanders-sign-horvat-to-8-year-deal-after-trading-for-him/2023/02/05/cf8ce150-a5a0-11ed-b2a3-edb05ee0e313_story.html
Chychrun is a piece that they could acquare and fit in cap wose long term since he has 2 more years at $4.6 AAV.Boston is also believed to be in the left-defence market. Would not be surprised if they’ve checked in on Jakob Chychrun and Vladislav Gavrikov, among others. They’ve got special chemistry, and tampering with that can be dangerous. But this is an absolute go-for-it year because you don’t know how long the group will be together. You also don’t know how long you’ll have your top two centres combining for $3.5 million against the cap — an absolute gift from Patrice Bergeron and David Krejci. (Yes, they’ll have to deal with bonuses next season, but it’s still a gift.)
8. Don’t sense anything new on David Pastrnak, although I think the Bruins know they’re going into uncharted territory for their organization. Pastrnak’s pretty confident in his own skin; he knows what he wants.
Chychrun makes a great deal of sense, especially taking a long term view. I'd probably go Chychrun-McAvoy, Lindholm-Clifton, Grzelcyk-Carlo though. For some reason Grzelcyk-Clifton is far and away their worst pairing (size perhaps?) and Lindholm-Clifton is stupendously good.Since Horvat is off the table, Chychrun is the right move and hope they go in that direction. They clearly are concerned with Grz playing top 4 minutes and staying healthy. A Chychrun - McAvoy, Lindholm - Carlo top 4 is the right answer.
The reported ask is somewhere in the value of 2 firsts and a second. It's hard to parse out a deal because of the cap issues but I think it'd be a 1st and Lysell or Lohrei at a minimum. Then you've got to figure out the rest, including the salary balancing act. If we use the Lindholm deal last year, the 1st and Lohrei/Lysell takes care of the 1st and a 2nd. Zboril can play the role of Vaakanainen. Reilly plays the role of John Moore. Then they need to figure out the final value of the second 2nd they gave the Ducks."Another thing I should mention on Chychrun, who a lot of people in the league believe Los Angeles still makes the most sense [as a landing spot] given their need on the left side, the Boston Bruins are another contender of late that have also inquired with the Coyotes on the young defenceman."
This one's a headscratcher for me. Schenn has a -10% relative xGF on a terrible team. Sure he gets a lot of defensive zone starts but that's still not great.Some more smoke on Schenn.
If he's Josh Brown, whatever. If they think he's better than the current 6 (or even Zboril), then yeah.Schenn is a head scratcher as anything but depth. He sucks. Was jack iohnson not available?
It’s probably more that they think Schenn is better than whatever they could call up from Providence if 2 defenseman get hurt, assuming Reilly is going to be traded to make the money work on whatever deal they make.I mean, I get we've come to accept "you can never have too many defensemen" as the result of the past few seasons. But I really don't see how Schenn is an upgrade over Forbort (similarly -13.7% relative xGF, but on a much better team and with more defensive zone starts) or Grzelcyk (-1.8% rel xGF). Unless they feel Schenn has a skillset that Reilly or Zboril can't provide, I fail to see why they're pursuing him.
The cond 4th wasn't in the original report, but Rangers did well here IMORangers got: Tarasenko, D Niko Mikkola
Blues got: Conditional 1st 2023(the later of NYR's 2 1sts as they control Dallas'), Conditional 4th 2024(becomes a 3rd if NYR is a playoff team this year), Sammy Blais, and Hunter Skinner
Blues also retained 50% of Tarasenko's salary
Peter Chiarelli is Vice President of Hockey Operations for the St. Louis Blues. Seriously.That's an awful return. Was Chiarelli somehow involved?
Yea, he's got 10g this year, the same as.....Trent Frederic.Tarasenko had a full NTC and has been an oft-injured shell of his former self. I'm satisfied with the first rounder and really hope they're not done selling.
If that's the going rate, I'd think long and hard about one of these guys.Peter Chiarelli is Vice President of Hockey Operations for the St. Louis Blues. Seriously.
I actually think this is a good trade for St. Louis. This is basically what the 'name' rentals go for, particularly the high paid ones with no-trade claues. Last year Giroux got a 2024 1st and a stock-is-falling prospect. This is basically the same trade with better picks. I'd expect O'Reilly to have a similar return, maybe slightly better due to position and the grit factor. Kane and Toews are going to get nothing more than a mid-round pick for Chicago.
Yeah my first priority would be a big add on the back end. But, if one of those above mentioned moves were there to be made then definitely.The only issue is the Bruins can only pull off 1 big cap add in all likelihood. I'd prefer other adds but if it was last minute on 3/3, sure.