Barcelona 2014-15: Mes Que Un Cleanout

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OilCanMDS

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Zososoxfan said:
My stupid DVR decided not to record, so I missed this one. From what I saw in highlights, it seems like Mascherano was in there. Part of getting Mathieu and Vermaelen in the offseason was being able to play 2 bona fide CBs at the same to help on set pieces. So, I think it's time Lucho started playing 2/3 of Pique, Mathieu, and Vermaelen for games like yesterday. Also, it looks like Dani Alves was pretty weak on a couple of the goals. He's really best-suited for playing against the minnows, and playing a more conservative FB against big dogs. However, I also read that Alba and Ter Stergen had bad games, so take that FWIW. Lastly, I also read that Rakitic and the other MF did not help Sergio on D at all. If that's the case, Lucho needs to remind Rakitic that his best attribute is precisely the fact that he contributes offense WHILE ALSO providing defensive support box-to-box.
Alba got completely abused by Lucas.  It was pretty bad.  The surprising thing about it was that Lucas was just running past him.  I don't recall seeing a player regularly run past Alba before.
 
I think playing two tall defenders would help in these games, but on at least one of the set piece goals it was because of blown assignments.  Rakitic ended up covering about 3 PSG players on the far post.  I don't think having Pique or Vermaelen would have helped on that one.
 
At the end of the game, Alves was taken off for Sandro and Barca went to a three back set with Mascherano on the outside on the right.  I wonder if we could see Mascherano at RB in big games in which Barca needs more defense from the RB position.  That would allow for two of Mathieu, Pique and Vermaelen to be on the field with Masch and Alba.
 

Zososoxfan

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OilCanMDS said:
Alba got completely abused by Lucas.  It was pretty bad.  The surprising thing about it was that Lucas was just running past him.  I don't recall seeing a player regularly run past Alba before.
 
I think playing two tall defenders would help in these games, but on at least one of the set piece goals it was because of blown assignments.  Rakitic ended up covering about 3 PSG players on the far post.  I don't think having Pique or Vermaelen would have helped on that one.
 
At the end of the game, Alves was taken off for Sandro and Barca went to a three back set with Mascherano on the outside on the right.  I wonder if we could see Mascherano at RB in big games in which Barca needs more defense from the RB position.  That would allow for two of Mathieu, Pique and Vermaelen to be on the field with Masch and Alba.
 
I'm surprised that Alba didn't play well. He seems like a rock generally. Anyways, with regard to the bolded, I like the creativity, but I think moving Masch further and further away from his natural position DMF is a mistake. If you really want better defense, I think the first step is you do not play Alves - he's still a good FB, just one who offers more on offense than defense. You can play Adriano or Douglas there. Second, I would love to see Lucho attempt to play Masch and Sergio in the MF together. They might have trouble with spacing, but putting those 2 in front of a defense would have to help I think. It would be very interesting to see who the other MF would be in that scenario (Rakitic, Iniesta?). To get really funky, I would also think the pairing could work with a back 3. With Pique, Vermaelen, Mathieu, and to a lesser extent Alba, there are definitely possibilities to play a back 3.
 

coremiller

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You could also use Masch as a very deep DMF/sweeper/libero and play 3-5-2 with Alves/Alba as wing-backs.  You'd have to sacrifice one of the front 3, probably whoever plays on the right side, but you wouldn't need the right-sided forward as much because Alves is so good at providing width on that side.
 

soxhop411

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http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/07/barcelona-la-liga-catalonia-spain
 
Barcelona would not be allowed to play in La Liga if Catalonia broke away from Spain, the president of the Liga de Fútbol Profesional, Javier Tebas, said as tensions mounted in the region over the possibility of an independence referendum next month.
The present Barcelona board, first under the former president Sandro Rosell and now Josep Maria Bartomeu, have taken a back-seat role in the heated debate taking place in the region about whether to hold an independence referendum on 9 November.
In the event that Barcelona did leave La Liga it would severely weaken the image of the competition at home and abroad.
Similarly it would be hard to imagine Barça and their local rivals Espanyol competing in a Catalan league, which would have many semi-professional teams.
“If Catalonia became independent, taking into consideration the Sports Law that would be enforced by the rest of Spain, Barcelona wouldn’t be allowed to play,” Tebas told a sports conference in Barcelona.
“There would have to be a change in the law made in the Spanish parliament. Clearly if it happened, then it would be detrimental for Spanish football to lose Barça who are an historic club.
“I can’t imagine the LFP without Barça. In the same way as I can’t imagine Catalonia without Spain, I can’t see La Liga without Barça. Also if it did happen what would you call the league: the Spanish League or the Iberian League?”
Barcelona supporters aligned with the former president Joan Laporta are calling on the club to be more vocal in support of the referendum.
Laporta, who was president from 2003 to 2010, wanted the club to be at the forefront of Catalan nationalist politics, which angered many fans, particularly those from other parts of Spain who felt alienated.
The present board, though, are less committal. “It is a sensitive subject and the club won’t get involved but the president is considering making a statement in the coming days,” said a Barça spokesman.
Xavi and Gerard Piqué, however, are among the Barça players who have come out in support of a referendum, following a September rally in Barcelona in favour of the vote, attended by 1.8 million people according to the police.
“We have all the right in the world to vote,” Xavi said. “We need to vote, we need the people to show their opinions and I am in favour of the referendum obviously.”
He and Piqué were or are Spain internationals and the latter says that he still gives his all when playing for La Roja. “I am Catalan and I wanted to take part in the rally,” Piqué said. “I went with friends to have a good time with the other 1.8 million that were there.
“There is no need to doubt me. I have played for the national team for 11 years and it is something different to be in favour of a referendum which is democratic. People should have the right to vote and this has nothing to do with the other.”
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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soxhop411 said:
Catalonia, and Barcelona, aren't going anywhere, at least anytime soon. The situation is not like Scotland, where the British government was going to heed the results of the independence referendum and a yes vote really would mean independence. The Spanish government not only has refused to allow the Catalan referendum but also considers it to have zero legal and administrative impact. Its like if Massachusetts held a referendum on seceding from the US.
 

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Catalonia, and Barcelona, aren't going anywhere, at least anytime soon. The situation is not like Scotland, where the British government was going to heed the results of the independence referendum and a yes vote really would mean independence. The Spanish government not only has refused to allow the Catalan referendum but also considers it to have zero legal and administrative impact. Its like if Massachusetts held a referendum on seceding from the US.
 
Or Vermont...
 

OilCanMDS

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Barca looked really good in the Champions League yesterday.  Neymar and Messi are clicking right now, and Iniesta had a vintage performance.  The defense with Pique and Bartra is definitely shakier than when Mathieu and Mascherano are the CBs.  Mascherano got time at CDM with Busquets out and looked solid.  It sounds like Busquets will be back for this weekend, which will probably push Mascherano back to CB.
 
Suarez is back for El Clasico this weekend.  I have been looking forward to this since he signed a few months ago.  Hopefully, Barca plays Suarez with Neymar and Messi.  My guess is that Messi, Neymar and Munir start up top and Munir is subbed off for Neymar around the 60th minute.
 

Laser Show

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Anyone have any advice on Camp Nou? I'm looking to buy one ticket to the FC Barcelona match on 11/1. Trying to decide if it's worth paying extra to be down in the lower sections.
 

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I paid extra for tickets down low which worked out incredibly because it rained for the first 15 minutes and I got to move up to like four rows from the sideline opposite the benches.  Also got to see Hleb get hurt right in front of me, arguably the highlight of his Barca career.
 

Zososoxfan

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No excuse for Xavi starting over Rakitic. I also don't love Masch at CB against Europe's biggest clubs (read: the Madrids and UCL playoffs from the quarters onward). Pique didn't cover himself in glory, guy really needs to check himself because he's going to start losing minutes in a hurry. Mathieu has to be starting at CB in big games. I'd love to see Vermaelen get more PT to see if he would make a good partner for Mathieu. Bartra doesn't seem big enough to be playing in these games. Suarez looked a half a step slow, as expected, but man does he seem to complement Messi and Neymar well. Lucho outsmarted himself with his lineup today. I'm more confident about this team than last year by a lot, but Lucho gambled and looked foolish this weekend.
 

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Marca ran an interesting piece saying that Barcelona's line-up was the same as four years ago when Barca beat ManU in the Champions League Final (yes, Marca was trolling). Basically, seven of Barcelona's starting XI have not changed. Marca was arguing that the revolution that was was foreshadowed never happened.
 

bosox4283

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bosox4283 said:
Marca ran an interesting piece saying that Barcelona's line-up was the same as four years ago when Barca beat ManU in the Champions League Final (yes, Marca was trolling). Basically, seven of Barcelona's starting XI have not changed. Marca was arguing that the revolution that was was foreshadowed never happened.
 
I make this comment largely in reference to the previous point about Xavi playing over Rakitic. And, there is certainly an argument to be made that Marsch should not be getting minutes in these crucial games at CB.
 

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Bad loss over the weekend against Celta. The defense actually played fine and the goal came off a bad turnover IIRC. SNM played the whole game up top and created chances, but couldn't finish. Dani Alves' defense continues to suck. Not going to freak out over a flukey loss, but it's important to keep pace with other teams near the top. Also, the back heel and finish on the Celta goal were marvelous.
 

Laser Show

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Zososoxfan said:
Bad loss over the weekend against Celta. The defense actually played fine and the goal came off a bad turnover IIRC. SNM played the whole game up top and created chances, but couldn't finish. Dani Alves' defense continues to suck. Not going to freak out over a flukey loss, but it's important to keep pace with other teams near the top. Also, the back heel and finish on the Celta goal were marvelous.
 
I was there, about ten rows up from the corner on that goal. It was a gorgeous goal.
 
First time at Camp Nou (or any European soccer stadium) and it was breath-taking. Great atmosphere. I got to see Messi, Suarez, and Neymar up close the whole first half and they were a heck of a lot of fun to watch. I was actually most impressed by Suarez - he had some amazing moves, even if he was making some poor decisions. No one could finish. I think they hit the post 3 or 4 times?
 
Disappointed this was their first game, of all games, since Fall 2011 where they couldn't score at home.  
 

Zososoxfan

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Barca played like ass against Almeria, but Suarez really saved the day. Xavi also really settled things down when he came in - I've been a vocal hater of Xavi's game recently, but when deployed properly like on Saturday, he can still be an asset. The broadcasters talked about how Sergio has looked bad since the Clasico and I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to see Masch get some run at DMF, which should open up more PT for Bartra and Pique (Mathieu is clearly the best defender on the squad, and I haven't heard anything about Vermaelen). The biggest storyline of the game though may have been how bad Messi looked. He was moping around a bunch and didn't threaten the defense much at all. I usually excuse the lollygagging because he's Messi and he usually starts darting around once he becomes involved in the play in the final third, but something about this performance just seemed different.
 

OilCanMDS

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Zososoxfan said:
Barca played like ass against Almeria, but Suarez really saved the day. Xavi also really settled things down when he came in - I've been a vocal hater of Xavi's game recently, but when deployed properly like on Saturday, he can still be an asset. The broadcasters talked about how Sergio has looked bad since the Clasico and I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to see Masch get some run at DMF, which should open up more PT for Bartra and Pique (Mathieu is clearly the best defender on the squad, and I haven't heard anything about Vermaelen). The biggest storyline of the game though may have been how bad Messi looked. He was moping around a bunch and didn't threaten the defense much at all. I usually excuse the lollygagging because he's Messi and he usually starts darting around once he becomes involved in the play in the final third, but something about this performance just seemed different.
I think Xavi can still make solid contributions as long as he is flanked by Sergio and Rakitic in the MF.  He is a defensive liability at this point and when he is on the field with Iniesta there isn't enough defense in the midfield to press upfield or slow down the counter.  I don't want to see Iniesta and Xavi on the field together again in a big game.
 

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OilCanMDS said:
I don't want to see Iniesta and Xavi on the field together again in a big game.
 
How times have changed, right? What once was by far the best CM partnership in the world is now a liability.
 
On that note, I can't believe the direction Barca has taken. Barcelona has arguably the greatest player in history, undoubtedly the greatest goalscorer in history, and what did they do? They moved him away from goal!
 
Neymar and Suarez cost about 150 million Euros together. Anyone think Barca has CB issues? Barca could have spent that money on Thiago Silva and Mats Hummels, and I'd bet they'd still have had the 50 mil leftover to get David Luiz as a reserve. The fact that this club still wins is more a testament to how much they spend rather than how well they spend it.
 

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Billy R Ford said:
 
How times have changed, right? What once was by far the best CM partnership in the world is now a liability.
 
On that note, I can't believe the direction Barca has taken. Barcelona has arguably the greatest player in history, undoubtedly the greatest goalscorer in history, and what did they do? They moved him away from goal!
 
Neymar and Suarez cost about 150 million Euros together. Anyone think Barca has CB issues? Barca could have spent that money on Thiago Silva and Mats Hummels, and I'd bet they'd still have had the 50 mil leftover to get David Luiz as a reserve. The fact that this club still wins is more a testament to how much they spend rather than how well they spend it.
 
In their defense, they went after Silva and Luiz, and I think Hummels as well. Mathieu looks to be an outstanding signing and Vermaelen is a solid name as well. The bigger strike is only doing this now when everyone saw that this was necessary 2 years ago. Rakitic is looking like a stellar signing too. I have a gripe with selling Sanchez instead of Pedro, but that may have been because they needed money for Suarez, who looks good so far and I predict will only get better as he starts to gel more. He brings a dimension this striker group hasn't had in awhile (Zlatan, Etoo, Henry, etc.).
 
W/r/t Messi, I don't necessarily have a problem moving him around. If you just park him up top centrally, it kills the space. If you put him out wide, it doesn't take full advantage of his extraordinary vision. Moving him around makes him harder to defend generally and he may be best suited for the Zidane Real Madrid role, which was that he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted.
 

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Zososoxfan said:
Barca played like ass against Almeria, but Suarez really saved the day. Xavi also really settled things down when he came in - I've been a vocal hater of Xavi's game recently, but when deployed properly like on Saturday, he can still be an asset. The broadcasters talked about how Sergio has looked bad since the Clasico and I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to see Masch get some run at DMF, which should open up more PT for Bartra and Pique (Mathieu is clearly the best defender on the squad, and I haven't heard anything about Vermaelen). The biggest storyline of the game though may have been how bad Messi looked. He was moping around a bunch and didn't threaten the defense much at all. I usually excuse the lollygagging because he's Messi and he usually starts darting around once he becomes involved in the play in the final third, but something about this performance just seemed different.
Messi was brilliant against Ajax in the Cl so maybe the bad day against Almeria was just a one-off.
At this point Enrique needs to look at Xavi and Iniesta as something like 1.25 players. He has to be very discreet about when to put them on the field together. Definitely not against Real Madrid unless you are 4 goals up and in stoppage time.
 

OilCanMDS

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This is the best I have seen Barcelona look so far this season.  Messi, Neymar and Suarez seem to be on the same page and are creating tons of opportunities with their passing and movement off each other.  Sevilla is a solid team, and Barcelona is completely dominating them this match. 
 
One new wrinkle that Barcelona seems to have going now is the three-man counter with Messi, Neymar and Suarez.  They have regained possession and run at Sevilla's defense with those three a few times, and the counter looks really dangerous with how well their spacing, movement and passing have been.
 

Zososoxfan

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What an awesome game to watch. Seeing Messi set the record and celebrate with his boys will be a cool memory to have going forward. I want Suarez to net one SO BAD. He definitely deserves it. Once it starts raining though, I expect it'll pour!
 

Zososoxfan

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWnqe4lu74
 
Fastforward 1:11 if you want to see a thing of beauty. Unfortunately, this video quality sucks and cuts off the start of the break, but Neymar absolutely tools on a defender in Barca's half on the touchline to start the break, then plays it to Suarez up the line, who then plays a pinpoint center to Messi at the top of the box, who promptly takes a perfect touch, megs a defender, and slots home for his 2nd. Messi's first goal was really impressive too, he took a hard centering pass at the top of the box (notice a pattern?) and plays a perfect setup touch to himself before firing home low and to the corner for an unstoppable shot. Pique had a nice header goal, Messi got a hat trick on a very nice Pedro pass on the break, and Pedro also had a very nice goal after controlling a long looping pass from Alba (I think) and finishing with class. Can't wait for Wednesday with PSG.
 

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Zososoxfan said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWnqe4lu74
 
Fastforward 1:11 if you want to see a thing of beauty. Unfortunately, this video quality sucks and cuts off the start of the break, but Neymar absolutely tools on a defender in Barca's half on the touchline to start the break, then plays it to Suarez up the line, who then plays a pinpoint center to Messi at the top of the box, who promptly takes a perfect touch, megs a defender, and slots home for his 2nd. Messi's first goal was really impressive too, he took a hard centering pass at the top of the box (notice a pattern?) and plays a perfect setup touch to himself before firing home low and to the corner for an unstoppable shot. Pique had a nice header goal, Messi got a hat trick on a very nice Pedro pass on the break, and Pedro also had a very nice goal after controlling a long looping pass from Alba (I think) and finishing with class. Can't wait for Wednesday with PSG.
 
You are a Barca fan, right. Supporting your own team is one thing, criticizing is another.
 
A thing of beauty? It was more luck and bad defending from the opposition. I did not see the start of the counter, Barca played it fast with Suarez and Messi came with a 2nd wave. He stopped the ball and the Espanyol defender should have gotten the ball when Messi stopped it very bad (promptly takes a perfect touch???).
His first goal was one in the long list of Messi goals. I bet there are 100 Messi goals that were more impressive than this goal. He got a pass, stopped the ball and shot it low into the corner. That´s a classic easy Messi goal (took a hard centering pass=it was a normal pass, really nothing special about it).
They created many chances through crosses, yes, and through set pieces.
 
Talk about Pique? That 0-1 was ridiculous. He is a defender and when you want to show a defender that tries to stay out of a tackle, show Pique before the 0-1. He did a Flamenco dance after running back into his own box and then slid into the ball 12yards in front of his own goal. If he attacks earlier (say, 20-25yards) opponent can´t score that easy. And the most important thing i learned in coaching classes: offer one side and try to get closer. He tries to front him up, which is always bad and then of course results in the goal. You basically have to offer one side, delay your attack, start to run in the same direction while finding the best distance and then try to make a move for the ball or react. The problem with the fronting that Pique did is that the attacker lays himself the ball 5-10y in his running lane and the defender (Pique here) has a longer way to the ball because he has to turn around and cannot make a move to the ball (exactly what happened @ the 0-1). If you offer him one side and you have the right distance to attacker, he cannot make a move to your "backside", he has to go there, where you want him. You learn that at U13-U15 national and regional team levels. That´s such poor defending.
 

Zososoxfan

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OK, easy on the haterade there my Bavarian friend. First and foremost, I think you need to consider that you're watching a crappy video (an assumption on my part, please correct me if I'm wrong). The goal I highlighted (Neymar --> Suarez --> Messi) really was a thing of beauty because the attack started off a corner, or some deep possession by Espanol, Neymar blew past a guy (a big contributing factor to the awesomeness of the goal and one you admittedly missed) and you are being absurdly over critical about Messi's touch at the top of the box - it was a difficult touch and while I admit on second viewing it wasn't perfect (he's clearly running at a good speed and Suarez' ball was in the air and driven), it was still phenomenal and he was able to beat a defender after that and score a goal, so for functionality, it gets an A+. FWIW, Screamer (Deadspin) picked this goal up as well, so you can see for yourself http://screamer.deadspin.com/neymar-suarez-messi-destruction-1667943963/+billyhaisley.
 
Messi's first goal was only unspectacular in that he makes it seem so ordinary. You are correct in that the pass wasn't as heavy as I remembered it, but even the announcers commented on how he set up his next touch (the shot) perfectly. Moreover, that video doesn't have the view from behind Messi (facing the goal), where you can see the ball bend in just inside the post after starting about a yard wide.
 
Your points about Pique are certainly valid - he did not have a good game defensively and I thought about saying something about it as well. No argument there. But, that header was clinical.
 
In sum, my unsolicited advice to you is try to enjoy the sport a bit more. I put this in the Barca thread and not the tremendous goals thread for a reason.
 

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I looked it up and saw a different version of the video. It was better, but still didn´t include that entire sequence of that counter:
http://www.timesoccer.com/video/01/21-espanyol-vs-barcelona-live-highlights.html
(I cannot watch your video, it may be because i´m from Germany, i don´t know. But i saw a different version with now the entire move of Neymar.)
The best about that goal was obviously the dribbling from Neymar. The finishing was good, too, especially as Messi scores so much with his left foot and here finished with the right one. But the 1st guy could have (should) fouled Neymar for a yellow card. The 2nd should have gotten the ball, instead of opening his legs for Messi, so the ball rolled through. And it was especially bad as they were 7vs5 in the defending third.
The first goal looked unspectacular, when i first saw it only once. As i read your second post i have to admit i had to view it in slowmo and it looked better. I mean it is unspectacular from the setup, but he hit it really perfect, just like he does so many times, can´t say anything bad about it.
 
Thanks for your advice, i enjoy the sport, but i am not a Barca fan and so i don´t see those goals as special. They score those goals week in and week out, it seems. And in your first post it seemed like they were the tremendous goals... ;)
 

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Pretty awesome midweek win against Paris. Each of SNM had a goal, which is nice. Neymar's was my favorite. The formation was truly bizarre, but Pedro in midfield providing width really helped. Bartra is quickly becoming more and more reliable at the back. He may have even passed Pique on the depth chart, with Mathieu far and away #1, and Masch seemingly a solid #2. Excited for the draw on Monday. Would love a Shakhtar or Basel, want to avoid Juve and MANC. 
 

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Pretty weak performance against Cordoba for a 0-0 draw. Lucho went with a more conventional formation and Barca leave points on the table. At least everyone's fresh I guess since Lucho hasn't used the same formation twice?
 

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Yikes. Not only does Barcelona lose against Real Sociedad, Luis Enrique furthers confounds with his decision-making. Enrique grants Neymar, Messi, and maybe Alves an extra day or two of vacation, and as a result, none of these three are in the starting line-up. Then, when the team needs gas, he inserts all three only not to manage even the tying goal. Barcelona is having a fine season -- they are second in the league (one point beyond Real Madrid though Real Madrid has played one game less, and tied with Atletico) and still playing in both La Copa del Rey and Champions. That said, Enrique is not winning any fans with his line-up management and tactics. 
 

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And on cue, the Spanish paper AS publishes an article saying that Messi is sick of Enrique and tired of his authoritarian ways. 
 

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The madness ensues! Zubizarreta is out as Director of Football. Then, within a matter of hours, Carles Puyol, Zubi's assistant, quits. 
 
Oh, and to top it off: Messi is now following Chelsea, Courtois, and Filipe Luis on Twitter.
 
Real Madrid fans rejoice. Atletico fans giggle. Valencia fans dream of becoming the best Spanish team on the Mediterranean. What an tantalizing twenty-four hours.
 

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The transfer ban really complicates matters if top players want out amid the chaos/acrimony.  Its one thing to contemplate selling good players, its another thing for a club like Barca to do so without being able to replace them.  They can't buy until next January and, given that the quality they will likely desire is hard to find in the winter, you're really talking about waiting until Summer 2016 to be able to make any big splashes.  I can't really see Barca punting on next season entirely.
 

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bosox4283 said:
The madness ensues! Zubizarreta is out as Director of Football. Then, within a matter of hours, Carles Puyol, Zubi's assistant, quits. 
 
Oh, and to top it off: Messi is now following Chelsea, Courtois, and Filipe Luis on Twitter.
 
Real Madrid fans rejoice. Atletico fans giggle. Valencia fans dream of becoming the best Spanish team on the Mediterranean. What an tantalizing twenty-four hours.
 
But not CESC? 
 

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I think Lucho did the right thing giving the roster a lot of rest and turning the lineup over frequently. But, now the calendar's showing 2015, time to find your best XI, roll the dice on Copa lineups, and go! Not worried yet, winning cures all, but time to put it in gear.
 

Zososoxfan

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Good, but long, article here from Bill Haisley over at Screamer/Deadspin: http://screamer.deadspin.com/barcelona-are-a-complete-disaster-1677970814/+billyhaisley
 
I don't agree with everything he says, and he left out any mention of Zubizaretta (sp?)/Puyol, but a good read nonetheless. As Haisley himself points out, FCB is used to this type of craziness. More interestingly, I think about Barca's style and tactics. I like the 3-headed trident of forwards, and Alba is still a huge asset at FB, but Haisley insinuates, and I agree, that Iniesta is the key cog that is underperforming. I don't know if that is on the player or the coach or both. I like that Lucho got Pique performing better and I disagree with Haisley's assessment on that for sure. I also think Haisley completely overlooked the contributions of Mathieu thus far. Lucho should also get some credit for Neymar's improved performance. Bartra is starting to look like a bona fide CB. La Masia younguns are starting to get some run even if I don't see what Lucho does in Munir (I'm a bigger fan of Sandro myself). Ultimately, I think Lucho's strengths or weaknesses will be amplified as the season goes on. Either his well rested team will be able to make a push in the spring or his lack of a cohesive identity will lead to poor results. 
 
Lastly, I wish I understood the structure and personalities of the management of the club better because I have no idea how accurate Haisley is on these subjects.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think recent years have just created unrealistic expectations regarding domination and the quality of the product on the field.  Funny to have 38 points from 17 matches, a goal differential of almost 2 per match, first place in the UCL group, and articles terming the club a disaster.
 
The level of play and the success of the 2008-2013 club was a historical aberration.  They had their four best seasons in La Liga by points for four seasons in row, won the CL twice while making at least the semis in every year, had three homegrown players that were among the top in the world at the same time, rode the wave of a tactical innovation that others struggled to deal with for a time, all while being coached by the best manager in the world.  That's crazy, stars magically aligning stuff that even the biggest clubs cannot expect to happen very often, if ever.
 
It wasn't that long ago that Barcelona went five years without silverware.  Right now they're challenging strongly on three fronts and its seen as a disaster.  This club has been known for crazy internal conflicts for a long time but fighting over and bemoaning this situation as a "disaster" really takes the cake.
 

OilCanMDS

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Messi, Neymar and Suarez all scored in the first half of the game against Elche today, and Barcelona won 5-0.  I have missed a lot of Barca's games over the past month, so I can't really comment on how they look relative to their recent form, but the team looks great today.  
 
The most recent meltdown in the front office and media circus surrounding it are to be expected in light of the transfer ban and dip in form.  I think the lineup changing Enrique has been doing is necessary at this point of the season to ensure the team doesn't fade down the stretch like they did a couple seasons ago, and I think he has got some unfair criticism for it.  The only lineup that really bothered me was in El Clasico when Enrique went away from a lineup that had been working so well leading up the game to force Xavi and Pique into the lineup.  I hope Enrique gets some more time to figure everything out.
 

bosox4283

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Elche is garbage. They have 11 points through 17 matches and have only won three matches this year (Rayo Vallecano - 11th in La Liga, Espanyol - 10th in La Liga, and Valladolid - 3rd in 2nd Division). Barcelona beat Elche in the first match of the year, 3-0. Real Madrid beat Elche 5-1.
 
This weekend's match against Atletico will be a much better test of Barcelona's form.
 

Zososoxfan

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Fun game to watch, but bosox is right. The game against Elche is not an important data point, unless they lose or don't win soundly. I was shocked to see how ineffective Rakitic looked. I can't remember him winning the ball more than a few times and I don't remember him combining with any forwards. Neymar was on good form and combined with Alba well. Messi and Alves had some good combos. But, the team started playing much better once Messi decided to be the playmaker and drop into a tresquartista role instead of hanging out on the wing. It's really amazing how you can tell he was only giving 70-80% this game and was still tearing apart Elche's defense. The announcers were on point with identifying Messi's passing as the most exciting aspect of the game. Bartra, Pique, and Mascherano had very sound games. Sergi Roberto actually looked pretty good and added more to the offense than Rakitic although it often looks like playing on Messi's side of the field can be challenging because his style of play presents such different angles than any other player.
 

teddykgb

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I guess I just don't understand all of the mystery around Barca's "fall" (which really isn't one).  I feel like the entire world, for once, properly recognized the genius of Xavi and Iniesta and how they made that entire team tick.  Unsurprisingly, those players have gotten older and aren't quite at their peak, and the team goes from unbeatable to just very good.  And since you can't just go buy another Xavi and Iniesta, it becomes really hard to replace them and put the machine back at full efficiency.
 
Messi deserves every recognition he gets, but throwing big name attackers at the "problem" will never change the fact that the quality of those two midfielders, on the same team, is probably not something we're going to see again for a long time. Unless United Villa buy a world class midfielder (Januzaj?) to pair with Cleverley, of course.
 

SoxVindaloo

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teddykgb said:
I guess I just don't understand all of the mystery around Barca's "fall" (which really isn't one).  I feel like the entire world, for once, properly recognized the genius of Xavi and Iniesta and how they made that entire team tick.  Unsurprisingly, those players have gotten older and aren't quite at their peak, and the team goes from unbeatable to just very good.  And since you can't just go buy another Xavi and Iniesta, it becomes really hard to replace them and put the machine back at full efficiency.
 
Messi deserves every recognition he gets, but throwing big name attackers at the "problem" will never change the fact that the quality of those two midfielders, on the same team, is probably not something we're going to see again for a long time. Unless United Villa buy a world class midfielder (Januzaj?) to pair with Cleverley, of course.
Great points. Xavi's (more) and Iniesta's (less) fall offs have really altered the way the Barca offense runs.  Getting Messi service when and where he wanted it seemed easy at the time (08-12) for Xavi and Andres. Lucho seems stubborn in all this but so does Messi. A great win on Sunday should hopefully calm everyone down.
In 5-7 years it will be really interesting to see if Messi adopts a more Pirlo style role as the midfield pivot for Barca. I think he would be amazing at it if he could handle less goal scoring opportunities.
 

bosox4283

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Barcelona looked fantastic today. If this play continues, I suspect the critics will quickly forget this "crisis".
 
I haven't watched Barcelona much this year, so I cannot compare this performance to others. From today's match, I thought Barcelona did a tremendous job controlling the middle of the pitch, dictating the speed of play, and pressuring Atletico's midfielders. Atletico really struggled to move the ball and create any sort of rhythm, but I believe Barca deserves credit for owning this aspect of the game rather than saying Atletico was off today. Arda Turan and Koke were barely noticeable as a result of Barca's tactics and execution.
 
In fact, I don't have any take-aways about Barcelona's defense since they were largely unchallenged. Again, I thought the midfield played so quickly and aggressively that the Barcelona defense had an easy job today.
 
Finally, when Messi is as fast and sharp as he was this afternoon, Barcelona looks like, well, Barcelona. Today reminded me that Messi is still Messi. He had so many impressive runs that confused the normally solid Atletico defense. 
 

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I agree, Barca played really fast attacking football and it was a very good match against Atletico, a team that can cause a lot of trouble obviously. The attack was a beauty, with several more good chances to score, Suarez with the nice cross and Neymar had to score on that header for example.

This has to be a huge step in the right direction for the whole Barca/Messi/Luis Enrique situation, to dominate like that against such a quality side like Atletico (or aren´t they anymore?).
 
I think Messis head-high, kicking attack of the goalie in the 6yard-box would have been a straight red card for some crazy freaks like Zlatan, Mandzukic or Aguero. That was insane and useless, considering the goalie comes out 100% in that situation. Yes, he didn´t look there, but he has knows, the goalie is coming. He can be lucky he got his yellow based on his good reputation.
 

bosox4283

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Schnerres said:
I agree, Barca played really fast attacking football and it was a very good match against Atletico, a team that can cause a lot of trouble obviously. The attack was a beauty, with several more good chances to score, Suarez with the nice cross and Neymar had to score on that header for example.

This has to be a huge step in the right direction for the whole Barca/Messi/Luis Enrique situation, to dominate like that against such a quality side like Atletico (or aren´t they anymore?).
 
I think Messis head-high, kicking attack of the goalie in the 6yard-box would have been a straight red card for some crazy freaks like Zlatan, Mandzukic or Aguero. That was insane and useless, considering the goalie comes out 100% in that situation. Yes, he didn´t look there, but he has knows, the goalie is coming. He can be lucky he got his yellow based on his good reputation.
Messi really got the benefit of the the doubt with three calls in the match: the high-arm control on the break that led to the second goal, an elbow to the face of an Atletico defender as Messi maneuvered around him, and the challenge in the box that Schneerres mentions.
 

Zososoxfan

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I feel bad for Atleti and bosox because 2 of Barca's goals shouldn't have counted - Suarez was offside on the first and Messi handled the ball on the second. I think Messi's yellow was the correct call because he didn't look (which means there wasn't intent) and it was outside or at the edge of the 6 yard box. I also didn't have a problem with the tackle on Neymar even though that looked really painful. But, Barca still played a helluva game and you can't discount that.
 
The big difference for Barca yesterday was that they had a strategy and identity. Too often this year, the midfield and forwards looked aimless, especially with how to play with each other as units. Against Atleti, the strategy was clear. On offense, it was get the ball to the forwards quickly and attack with pace. If the attack wasn't on, the plan was to possess and have the fullbacks join the attack and overload one side. More importantly, Barca had a tremendous defensive strategy of having Rakitic and Iniesta clog the midfield (made possible in large part by not joining the attack) and pressing high up the pitch. Atleti had few chances to break because the flanks were open around midfield, but Atleti's midfielders and fullbacks couldn't provide an outlet fast enough and Pique/Masch closed on Mandzukic and Griezmann quickly.
 
What will be interesting to see is if Barca sticks with this strategy going forward or if this was a specific game plan for Atleti. I also thought Messi demanded the ball which is good to see, but that he should make runs behind the defense more often to mix it up. Many times the ball would get swung to Alves and Messi would just stand on the touchline and demand the ball there. I mean, he's Messi so he's allowed to do that and Dani gave it to him every time, but it just seems like he should make that run more often because it's on.
 

bosox4283

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Luis Enrique has repeated his starting line-up for the first time in 29 matches. I'm more interested if Enrique will use the same XI on Wednesday in La Copa del Rey against Atletico. 
 

Zososoxfan

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bosox4283 said:
Luis Enrique has repeated his starting line-up for the first time in 29 matches. I'm more interested if Enrique will use the same XI on Wednesday in La Copa del Rey against Atletico. 
 
I highly doubt it. I bet Ter Stegen will be in net. I'd be surprised if Alves plays. I could see Pedro getting some run. I'd be interested in seeing Bartra at the back and Masch at DMF, but I bet Lucho doesn't want to mess around too much now that the team is clicking.
 
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