sorry, i was just pointing out a psycho-social concept that is at play here using an obvious, commonly known analogy that people could easily understand and relate toThere is no reason to include politics in your post. If you can't make your point without politics, don't post. This is your only warning.
what's the perspective from Twins fans?Reading other message boards, Twins and Dodgers fans are irate at the Sox. LA fans think the Sox have to make this deal work or Bloom will be blackballed around the league from making other deals.
Funny that everyone seems to know a lot more about the inside of this situation than I do.
One was mad they traded Wiggins and the other thinks Cousins will never win a big gamewhat's the perspective from Twins fans?
They’re assuming Sox are making this all up because they got cold feet. Saying they should have known Brusdar was projected to be a reliever by the Twins. Completely ignoring that none of us have any insight into the medicals.what's the perspective from Twins fans?
first they get caught cheating and now this!Reading other message boards, Twins and Dodgers fans are irate at the Sox. LA fans think the Sox have to make this deal work or Bloom will be blackballed around the league from making other deals.
Funny that everyone seems to know a lot more about the inside of this situation than I do.
One was mad they traded Wiggins and the other thinks Cousins will never win a big game
i'll admit it, i laughedHe was upset.
It seems they may be irate because their initial glee that the Sox were subsidizng the trades might get walked back, and get a little more expensive.Reading other message boards, Twins and Dodgers fans are irate at the Sox. LA fans think the Sox have to make this deal work or Bloom will be blackballed around the league from making other deals.
Funny that everyone seems to know a lot more about the inside of this situation than I do.
Pearce and Eovaldi were clearly World Series hangover given their respective contributions to the championship. Not sure what to make of Sales contract given the injury concerns around him at that time.....perhaps just a general hangover?Horrendous management of the Sox since the World Series - DD took the fall but this completely belongs to ownership.
What a waste of an incredible opportunity.
Agreed, I'm good with the Sale contract. Stud pitcher and I'll believe he'll be back.
Problem is, baseball is a game of confidence and momentum- The franchise literally has lost all positive momentum and there's really nothing they can do to salvage that at this point. No trade, no managerial hire, no owner statements will turn it - maybe - maybe the players who are on the 2020 team can rally and pull it off but that's a lot to expect with everything going on right now.
I'm a little confused - earlier in the thread you said that the "Red Sox got hosed, two maybes (and one a huge risk) coming back" - but now you say it's a waste of an incredible opportunity.Horrendous management of the Sox since the World Series - DD took the fall but this completely belongs to ownership.
What a waste of an incredible opportunity.
The opportunity is the the core of the team that's been in place for the last several years.I'm a little confused - earlier in the thread you said that the "Red Sox got hosed, two maybes (and one a huge risk) coming back" - but now you say it's a waste of an incredible opportunity.
They'd also lost all positive momentum before 2004 2007 and 2013 too, so not sure exactly how baseball is a game of momentum, in fact there's an old adage about baseball that says the exact opposite.Agreed, I'm good with the Sale contract. Stud pitcher and I'll believe he'll be back.
Problem is, baseball is a game of confidence and momentum- The franchise literally has lost all positive momentum and there's really nothing they can do to salvage that at this point. No trade, no managerial hire, no owner statements will turn it - maybe - maybe the players who are on the 2020 team can rally and pull it off but that's a lot to expect with everything going on right now.
Yeah, to Dodgers fans the trade was their revenge for 2018. Losing that offends their sense of justice. All the more hilarious given just how scummy an organization they’ve been.It seems they may be irate because their initial glee that the Sox were subsidizng the trades might get walked back, and get a little more expensive.
I wonder if this is how an inmate on death row feels when they get a stay; you know something's going to happen, but at least it won't happen tonight.
From where I sit, "momentum" doesn't appear to cross seasons in any sport. Yeah, the Red Sox are Example #1 of that, so it's strange for that sentiment pop up in this forum of all places.They'd also lost all positive momentum before 2004 2007 and 2013 too, so not sure exactly how baseball is a game of momentum, in fact there's an old adage about baseball that says the exact opposite.
That poster's body of work makes it less strange.From where I sit, "momentum" doesn't appear to cross seasons in any sport. Yeah, the Red Sox are Example #1 of that, so it's strange for that sentiment pop up in this forum of all places.
Perfect analogy. Probably find out tomorrowI wonder if this is how an inmate on death row feels when they get a stay; you know something's going to happen, but at least it won't happen tonight.
I won't complain a bit if they win the World Series.How many people that are 100% dead set on not trading Mookie are going to complain loudly when he leaves for free agency after 2020 and all the Sox get out of the deal is a comp pick and are still in luxury tax hell because they haven’t been able to get under it?
Because if they don’t deal Mookie/Price, that’s what’s gonna happen.
Who is "baseball" that does this nowadays?how is Mookie not taking a hometown discount "wasting an incredible opportunity"? that's just bad luck on what Mookie's personality is. and it's really lame baseball nowadays factors in a player's personality to how efficient he is, but that's the truth right now - X is efficient for sticking to the Sox, Mookie is not efficient.
Specifically, the core that crushed it with a third place finish last year?The opportunity is the the core of the team that's been in place for the last several years.
front offices crunching the luxury tax numbersWho is "baseball" that does this nowadays?
The type of pitcher deployed as an opener is still evolving and probably subject to team philosophy, but from what I can tell they haven’t been fireballers or late-inning high-leverage guys, which is what you hope Graterol is at the very least, if he isn’t a starter.Any chance Bloom viewed Graterol as an opener as early as this season? We need a number 5 and many are expecting an opener to fill the spot. If his medicals reveal a one inning pitcher, then the wording of starter/reliever would make more sense. Bloom is looking for two immediate replacements for Betts and Price and I can see why he would walk away.
I'm genuinely trying to understand what you're talking about. The front offices crunching the numbers factor in personalities to efficiency? How do you know this? And what does it matter?front offices crunching the luxury tax numbers
I would read this as being upset with the idea that teams are run like businesses, and therefore focus on getting "efficient" production in terms of cost per win ($ per WAR or however you want to measure it). So if a player is willing to take a hometown discount, they are more efficient - if they want to get paid they are less efficient.I'm genuinely trying to understand what you're talking about. The front offices crunching the numbers factor in personalities to efficiency? How do you know this? And what does it matter?
Thanks, this makes some sense. But yes, that's the business of baseball and always has been. Why that's upsetting is beyond my grasp.I would read this as being upset with the idea that teams are run like businesses, and therefore focus on getting "efficient" production in terms of cost per win ($ per WAR or however you want to measure it). So if a player is willing to take a hometown discount, they are more efficient - if they want to get paid they are less efficient.
Of course, I'd say this is what front offices have always done. Now that we have better ways to quantify things, there is a lot of push back. But what is the alternative?
As openers? NY used Chad Green, who would be a late inning high leverage guy if NY didn't have so many others, and who pretty much only throws fastballs. TB started this with Romo who was a longtime closer, and last year they used Stanek as their main guy before they traded him (he can hit 100).The type of pitcher deployed as an opener is still evolving and probably subject to team philosophy, but from what I can tell they haven’t been fireballers or late-inning high-leverage guys, which is what you hope Graterol is at the very least, if he isn’t a starter.
In the end, isn't it just math?moreso the personality of a player determines if they take a hometown discount or not.
I don't think a player's personality should factor into their value, but with that link, it inevitably is a factor.
Please use proper capitalization and punctuation. We're not Twitter or a chatroom here.front offices crunching the luxury tax numbers
Green’s a good exception, even though he wasn’t as successful in that role. Romo is more of a usage/matchup guy, or ROOGY if that still exists. Stanek seems anomalous, more like a late bloomer Rays project.As openers? NY used Chad Green, who would be a late inning high leverage guy if NY didn't have so many others, and who pretty much only throws fastballs. TB started this with Romo who was a longtime closer, and last year they used Stanek as their main guy before they traded him (he can hit 100).
So Graterol would actually be a perfect fit for this role as far as I can see.
Yep I think he was envisioned as a 60 pitch type opener, and after reviewing medicals decided he’s a standard 3-6 out reliever.As openers? NY used Chad Green, who would be a late inning high leverage guy if NY didn't have so many others, and who pretty much only throws fastballs. TB started this with Romo who was a longtime closer, and last year they used Stanek as their main guy before they traded him (he can hit 100).
So Graterol would actually be a perfect fit for this role as far as I can see.
I've always wondered about things such as this. Is it tampering? Can teams actually make an offer during this window?Multiple teams have already reached out to the Red Sox since the three-way trade hit its first speed bump, sources said, so while Boston remains committed to working something out with Los Angeles, there are options if a deal is unable to be completed. The Padres would be the front-runner to land Betts if that scenario were to present itself, though a source said other teams have suggested they would be also interested in Betts and possibly Price.