Bobby Knight dead at 83
- Thread starter Duende Roomer
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I believe it was Dan Dakich (Who worked for Boob Knight as an assistant) who told a story of getting Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson for an on campus visit; but Knight could not be bothered to meet with him. Robinson enrolled at Purdue and was awarded national player of the year.
Great story! Sad yes but with some glimmer of happiness in particular for Bobby's friend.
I don't know how much you know historically about the Indiana program but this characterization could not be further from the truth. Do a deep dive into the Landon Turner story , who he challenged which brought out the best in him while making him a potential NBA player. If what you say is true than Knight never would have quietly reached out to Red Auerbach and ask him to draft the kid in the final round of the draft after he was paralyzed.
I met Bobby Knight (and Ted Williams!) in the early 1990s completely randomly. I was on a business trip to St. Petersburg (the one in Russia) and was between meetings having a cup of coffee in the lounge of a hotel on St.Isaac’s square and Knight and Williams were there in the lounge as well. I said hello and they were perfectly pleasant to me. They were on some sort of Baltic Sea cruise and had a day excursion to St. Petersburg and didn’t want to spend the entire day on their feet at the Hermitage so were taking a break.
Carry on.
Carry on.
What happened to Bobby Knight, happened to a lot of coaches, and in a different way may even be happening to out own patriots legend. He was one of the best at one time, probably the best. He changed the game. His passing game, concepts of moving without the ball are the foundations of the game today, even though the goal has changed to a open 3 rather than the back door layup or elbow jumper. Like Lombardi, Rockne, McGraw, even Wooden he was a coach who simply took the game more seriously, demanded more intense training and effort than his competitors. The truth of such pioneers is they set the framework for their own defeat. By the time of his undefeated 1976 team all of his rivals had organized off season workouts, used motion concepts, and demanding intensity was the hallmark of a good coach. Coach k, a protege of Knight is a more polished, correct version. Like Knight's Hoosiers K's Blue Devils wear surviving his workouts, surviving their coach as a medal.
Had Knight died in 1977 or 1981 (like Lombardi did near the height of his fame) he would have been an icon. But. Knight persisted and as he aged saw increasingly offensive behaviours as the anecdote to his critics and proof of just how big he is. He stubbornly refused to change and doubled down on his worst qualities, ruining what once his place as Wooden's heir to the throne.
Had Knight died in 1977 or 1981 (like Lombardi did near the height of his fame) he would have been an icon. But. Knight persisted and as he aged saw increasingly offensive behaviours as the anecdote to his critics and proof of just how big he is. He stubbornly refused to change and doubled down on his worst qualities, ruining what once his place as Wooden's heir to the throne.
I think K is far closer to BB. K was adapting as the times change, embracing the one and done era and winning a title in 2015 and going to the Final Four in his last season. But, he had assistants who were doing various pieces of the job, and college is so much different than the pros.
Unfortunately not. This was the early 90s so phones weren’t a thing yet over there. I did such a huge double-take when I realized who it was my head nearly came unscrewed.
I met Bobby Knight back when he first started to get into the broadcasting side of things in 2009 or 10. I had a friend that worked for the WVU AD and he would routinely get me credentials for basketball and football games and allow me to roam pretty much wherever I wanted to go. He was in town for the ESPN broadcast and a while before the game I was walking through the hallways underneath the stands and here comes Knight all by himself walking towards me. I remember being nervous as hell because it was Bobby Knight and with the reputation he had, you never know what he'll say. I said, "hello Coach Knight, good luck on the broadcast." and he stopped and as polite as can be said, "thanks, I'm still getting used to being on this side of things." He asked me my name and we chatted for a few minutes and he asked me what I did at WVU and I told I was actually a history teacher. He then proceeded to talk about the Mexican American War for about five minutes. It made sense, he was a history buff and a coach at West Point. Then off he went to do the game. It was random to say the least. I ran into my buddy later on and told him I met Bob Knight and we talked about the the war with Mexico, not one word about basketball.
Wooden coached until he was 65. Knight was becoming unglued and seemed to relish being an asshole in his 40s and 50s.
I think this is accurate.
I'm not trying to downplay anyone who has a mental illness...in fact I think it shows how "functional" people can be.
That's the least "bad" answer I can have for how Knight could be a genius, super kind and generous, and also a monster.
I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone--especially online. It doesn't seem crazy to consider this.
That's the least "bad" answer I can have for how Knight could be a genius, super kind and generous, and also a monster.
I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone--especially online. It doesn't seem crazy to consider this.
This is a great post!
You could replace "Knight and motion offense" with "Pitino and analytics" and nothing in this post would change. So many innovators become their own worst enemy as everyone copies them and catch up. As you said, had they passed before everyone caught up they would be on a pedestal forever. Legacies can be fragile....look at Belichick!
Knight changed too. The way he won with Keith Smart was different than how he won with Isiah and different from Kent Benson/Scott May. Knight also exceeded what he should have been able to d when he left Indiana. Coach K, as I sadi behaved better and benefited from an era when players went pro quickly and recruiting became almost everything. Had Knight the personal self control and sense of Coach K and stayed at Indiana he would have kept going to Final 4s.
I don’t think Knight and BB are a good comp. I think Knight and coach K are a good comp to Parcells and BB. The mentors who ultimately get usurped by their protégés, and don’t handle it with much grace. Both relationships went through ups and downs, falling outs and reconciliations, etc. Despite Ks flowery statement after Knights death, he had permanently written off any relationship with him 6-7 years ago, after yet another nasty encounter, caused by a perceived slight that was almost completely a figment of Knights imagination. It does seem that Parcells and BB are on much better terms now.
I'm pretty sure Knight later acknowledged that he should have done more to help Bird acclimate to IU:
https://www.insidethehall.com/2009/03/05/seth-davis-on-larry-bird-and-bobby-knight/
I'm not sure. He was at IU until 2000. He hadn't won a title in 13 years when he left and hadn't been to a Final Four in nearly a decade (with Calbert Cheaney, Alan Henderson and Damon Bailey in 1992) at that point. He was still getting his teams to the tournament but not going deep.
Some fans were certainly frustrated. The last sweet 16 was in 1994. Then it was 1st or 2nd round exits and they were not pretty.
I still maintain Knight had some sort of mental illness. In the 80s Knight had Ryan White, a kid who had AIDS, sit on the bench. I believe he also put his arm on the kid. It may sound silly, but back then some people thought AIDS could be transferred via spit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ryan_White_Story
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Again his personality and outbursts were killing his recruiting. It was common knowledge you could get him to sabotage himself. Rival coaches would say to kids, "Just ask Coach Knight ______________" and it would be something that set him off. The last 5 years at least he was out of control.
Here's the thread unroll if you are still interested: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1719847511618142380.html#google_vignette
Coach Knight flyfishing with Jose Wejebe who was maybe the Isaiah Thomas of flyfishing guides. Not the best ever but an absolute stud. Wejebe knows what he is doing, puts Knight on an absolutely great fish and moves around the boat as if it’s not rocking at all. In the last minute of the video, you’ll see that the tarpon they caught was a beast!
Spanish Fly
Spanish Fly