Bruins fire Claude Julien

[Dummy Hoy]

You don't have to be a defenseman to coach the D.

Goalie is the only position I would think you need to have played, but even then you could learn enough. This doesn't bother me, especially if it's short term.

*with the caveat that I assume Sacco has worked with defensemen before.

 

[RIFan]

Serious question. Do you think its him, or is he talking with Neely's stick poking his ribs?

I don't think Sweeney is a full on puppet, but Neely is definitely pulling some strings. This was Neely's statement:

"These decisions are not easy, and Don has my full support. I believe that we have a better team than our results to date show. I also recognize that there are areas that we as a group need to improve upon.

This decision does not in any way diminish Claude's legacy as a Bruins coach. I would like to wish him and his family all the best moving forward."

He's laying the decision at Sweeney's feet, but he must have been pushing it based on the idea that the results haven't been there. He's delusional if he thinks the overall talent base of this team should have resulted in better results.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

So is Cassidy in an interim role or did they not tag him as interim?

I have zero idea about his coaching style/philosophy.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

*with the caveat that I assume Sacco has worked with defensemen before.

Watching the Avs when he was behind the bench, I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption

 

[Dropkick Izzy]

The salary cap spending argument obviously doesn't hold water, but the absentee ownership certainly does. Neely MIA, Charlie MIA, nary a peep to the media. Shit, no STH email as of yet either, but I guess that's on the PR Department too.

Did anyone ask Sweeney about the sea change from just a few weeks when Claude was allegedly "safe"?

 

[PedroSpecialK]

So is Cassidy in an interim role or did they not tag him as interim?

I have zero idea about his coaching style/philosophy.

Tagged as interim, will be considered as a candidate for '17-'18 according to Sweeney

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Watching the Avs when he was behind the bench, I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption

I would honestly take the assistant waterboy coaching the D over Sacco. He might be the worst coach in the NHL. No clue why they ever gave him a shot in Boston.

 

[Dropkick Izzy]

So is Cassidy in an interim role or did they not tag him as interim?

I have zero idea about his coaching style/philosophy.

He was named as interim and that they'd evaluate the team at year end. I believe there was a question about other candidates during the PC.

Kick that can!

 

[kenneycb]

I would honestly take the assistant waterboy coaching the D over Sacco. He might be the worst coach in the NHL. No clue why they ever gave him a shot in Boston.

Not all coaches that suck as head coaches suck as assistant coaches. Pretty much across any sport.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Watching the Avs when he was behind the bench, I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption

I laughed.

I would honestly take the assistant waterboy coaching the D over Sacco. He might be the worst coach in the NHL. No clue why they ever gave him a shot in Boston.

Fake Edit: Kenney covered it.

 

[sezwho]

For those who missed the trainwreck, the presser is being rebroadcast on NESN now

 

[TSC]

Not all coaches that suck as head coaches suck as assistant coaches. Pretty much across any sport.

Shit. Look at Josh McDaniels.

 

[TFP]

Shit. Look at Josh McDaniels.

*cough* Dave Lewis *cough*

Too soon?

 

[Dummy Hoy]

It will be too soon for the next 100 years.

 

[joe dokes]

So this story is old (June 2015). But when you go to ESPN Boston, and click on Bruins and the blogs & columns and then to Joe MacDonald (the only Bruins "contributor" listed) this comes up:

Bruins putting trust in Harry Sinden's experience

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/13285631/nhl-boston-bruins-putting-trust-harry-sinden-experience

 

[kenneycb]

*cough* Dave Lewis *cough*

Too soon?

He's basically a god in Belarus.

 

[TFP]

NotMattKalman from the top rope.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

That's a couple of "I've been clear"s away from being a Spicer quote

 

[Dummy Hoy]

So what is really the issue?

 

[Myt1]

NotMattKalman from the top rope.

Majored in hockey, not English, at Harvard.

 

[RIFan]

The translation of Sweeney's quote is that Claude told Sweeney he needs more than a first line and hodgepodge collection of 3rd and 4th line players that don't compliment each other in any way. Sweeney replies but they're gritty. We should win with gritty. He won't acknowledge that roster construction is the major issue.

 

[cshea]

Sweeney also said Julien can't score or make a save for them. Sweeney's comments were all over the place. It was like he was still struggling to make a decision.

I don't know much about Bruce Cassidy but guess what, he can't make a save or score a goal either.

 

[joe dokes]

Others have mentioned "wasting" Bergeron. But at least he's on a line with Marchand and Pastrnak. The guy I feel bad for is Krejci. He's a very skilled player but has been saddled with a rotating cast of often-plodding misfits. It makes him closer to useless if his passing ability and vision have no one to pass to or see.
He's just not good enough to turn Jimmy Hayes or some other Gord Shitstain into something useful offensively.

 

[RIFan]

For all the #fireclode talk over the years the comments everywhere on the web are 99-1 anti front office / pro Claude. Sweeney and Neely are getting bludgeoned in the court of public opinion.

 

[joe dokes]

For all the #fireclode talk over the years the comments everywhere on the web are 99-1 anti front office / pro Claude. Sweeney and Neely are getting bludgeoned in the court of public opinion.

They could have fired the worst coach in NHL history, and would get bludgeoned for doing it the way they did.

 

[TFP]

Others have mentioned "wasting" Bergeron. But at least he's on a line with Marchand and Pastrnak. The guy I feel bad for is Krejci. He's a very skilled player but has been saddled with a rotating cast of often-plodding misfits. It makes him closer to useless if his passing ability and vision have no one to pass to or see.

This was interesting so I went to Behindthenet.ca to see if it was true. His top 3 FW 5 on 5 linemates over the last 3 seasons:

2015-2016 - Eriksson (71%), Pastrnak (47%), Beleskey (46%)
2014-2015 - Lucic (67%), lots of D, Marchand (24%), Griffith (23%)
2013-2014 - Iginla (87%), Lucic (87%), all defensemen after that

For this year, I used leftwinglock.com which said for over 55% of the games (maybe more) he has had Backes on his line as well.

I just don't think your conclusion bears itself out. Krejci has had at least 1 top shelf winger on his line each year, then a rotating cast of a 2nd winger who is also usually very good. This is no different than Bergeron/Marchand having a 3rd player rotated through them as a pairing. 2014-2015 was certainly a challenge to find him a 3rd winger.

 

[TFP]

This was interesting so I went to Behindthenet.ca to see if it was true. His top 3 FW 5 on 5 linemates over the last 3 seasons:

2015-2016 - Eriksson (71%), Pastrnak (47%), Beleskey (46%)
2014-2015 - Lucic (67%), lots of D, Marchand (24%), Griffith (23%)
2013-2014 - Iginla (87%), Lucic (87%), all defensemen after that

For this year, I used leftwinglock.com which said for over 55% of the games (maybe more) he has had Backes on his line as well.

I just don't think your conclusion bears itself out. Krejci has had at least 1 top shelf winger on his line each year, then a rotating cast of a 2nd winger who is also usually very good. This is no different than Bergeron/Marchand having a 3rd player rotated through them as a pairing. 2014-2015 was certainly a challenge to find him a 3rd winger.

For comparison, this was Bergeron last year:

2015-2016 - Marchand (83%), Connolly (46% UGH), Stempniak (18%)

And him and Marchand each managed to score 30 and be elite possession players. They're on another level.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Shit. Look at Josh McDaniels.

Except McDaniels was an accomplished assistant coach. The only time Sacco was an assistant was in the AHL.

 

[joe dokes]

This was interesting so I went to Behindthenet.ca to see if it was true. His top 3 FW 5 on 5 linemates over the last 3 seasons:

2015-2016 - Eriksson (71%), Pastrnak (47%), Beleskey (46%)
2014-2015 - Lucic (67%), lots of D, Marchand (24%), Griffith (23%)
2013-2014 - Iginla (87%), Lucic (87%), all defensemen after that

For this year, I used leftwinglock.com which said for over 55% of the games (maybe more) he has had Backes on his line as well.

I just don't think your conclusion bears itself out. Krejci has had at least 1 top shelf winger on his line each year, then a rotating cast of a 2nd winger who is also usually very good. This is no different than Bergeron/Marchand having a 3rd player rotated through them as a pairing. 2014-2015 was certainly a challenge to find him a 3rd winger.

Thanks for doing the leg work. I think you demonstrated the point that I poorly explained. I was talking about *this* year, where I think he's getting no help as compared to the last few; and I think that has hurt the team's overall offense. The drop off from Iginla, Lucic, Marchand, Eriksson to this version of Backes (substandard at best), and he's only had him half the time. (I had thought that Backes and Vatrano would be a good pair.) As a result, he's being criticized more than he deserves, IMO.

Bergeron and Marchand are simply superior players to Krejci, so no argument there -- *they* might manage to make Hayes look like he doesn't suck at least 25% of the time.

 

[TFP]

Well yes and no. This year his linemates have been worse, but while it didn't sum it up like Behind the Net did, it looked to me like his top other wingers are Spooner and Vatrano. Not stiffs, but not up to his elite wingers in the past.

To the Hayes point - Krejci has played with Hayes for about 1% of the season this year. He's a non-factor.

I think Krejci deserves all the criticism he has gotten this year. He's their highest paid forward, the idea that he can only produce a 70% season with elite linemates means he's horribly underperforming and overpaid. That said, he's still 3rd on the team in points (barely).

 

[TFP]

Completely unrelated but while doing this research, I discovered that in his career, Marchand has 26 PPG and 22 SHG. 22 SHG is 1st by a lot over that time (Henrique has 17), and 26 PPG is...122nd. That's just such a weird stat I don't even know how to comprehend it.

Edit: He's 23rd over that span with 128 ESG and 28th in overall G. So he's outstanding in ESG and SHG - but just doesn't get any PPG. I think if he played on PP1 full time over the last 5+ years, he'd be considered one of the top 10 players in the league.

 

[joe dokes]

Well yes and no. This year his linemates have been worse, but while it didn't sum it up like Behind the Net did, it looked to me like his top other wingers are Spooner and Vatrano. Not stiffs, but not up to his elite wingers in the past.

To the Hayes point - Krejci has played with Hayes for about 1% of the season this year. He's a non-factor.

I think Krejci deserves all the criticism he has gotten this year. He's their highest paid forward, the idea that he can only produce a 70% season with elite linemates means he's horribly underperforming and overpaid. That said, he's still 3rd on the team in points (barely).

I was using Hayes as a proxy for "ineffective hockey player." I'll give you overpaid. I still think he can be an effective 2nd line center. I think we part ways on whether he's had sufficient 2nd line linemates, but your data is likely more precise than my instincts.

 

[Jordu]

Cam Neely believes "we have a better team than our record to date shows?" Cam Neely is wrong about that. Once you get past the stars, the talent level on this team is mediocre. You are what your record says you are.

Neely and Sweeney made trades for prospects and draft picks, and now they blame Julien for not winning without the talent they traded away?

Julien did not lose the dressing room -- we've all talked about this year's team having heart.

This is a mighty shabby way to treat a coach who did so much for the franchise.

If Sweeney and Neely wanted Cassidy so badly, they should have fired Claude last June. I do think Cassidy is their guy going forward.

This season is over. I'll watch every game because I love hockey and the Bruins, but they're not going anywhere this year. I do look forward to next year, though.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Cam Neely believes "we have a better team than our record to date shows?" Cam Neely is wrong about that. Once you get past the stars, the talent level on this team is mediocre. You are what your record says you are.

The best rationale for firing Claude would have been "we have a worse team than our record shows".

At least give Cam credit for opening his mouth and removing all doubt. ("Better to be quiet and have people than to...")

 

[RetractableRoof]

I'm not upset about the firing, I think the time had come. I would have many moons ago so I'm not colored by that part of it.

What a sleazy, low class, bush league way to handle the press conference. That is embarrassing for the organization and to me an indication of how they view the fans of the team. Hey Don and Cam... I no longer view you well either.

 

[BigMike]

Cam Neely believes "we have a better team than our record to date shows?" Cam Neely is wrong about that. Once you get past the stars, the talent level on this team is mediocre. You are what your record says you are.

Neely and Sweeney made trades for prospects and draft picks, and now they blame Julien for not winning without the talent they traded away?

Julien did not lose the dressing room -- we've all talked about this year's team having heart.

This is a mighty shabby way to treat a coach who did so much for the franchise.

If Sweeney and Neely wanted Cassidy so badly, they should have fired Claude last June. I do think Cassidy is their guy going forward.

This season is over. I'll watch every game because I love hockey and the Bruins, but they're not going anywhere this year. I do look forward to next year, though.

I don't think Cassidy is there guy moving forward, but he could be. There was a rumor a month ago there was ONE guy they wanted who they thought might be available in the offseason, but wasn't available now, and there was a concern if they promoted Cassidy and they won they'd have to stick with him.

it's just a crying shame that they handled this as badly as a franchise possibly could. They clearly decided to use the parade as cover and it completely blew up in their face

I know it is hard to separate Neely and Sweeney and assign blame (and occasional praise). I actually believe Sweeney is bright. I think the revival in the drafting is largely Sweeney, and face it he worked his way up to the job he has. Obviously it helps that he played here, but he did in theory achieve in lesser roles on his way to a promotion

Neely I think is not all that bright. I think he got a smile and wave figurehead position, and has somehow transitioned from largely a figurehead to actually running the org, and I think he is completely incapable in such a role.

 

[lexrageorge]

Translation of Sweeney's comments: the heat was coming from above, and Sweeney either had to blame the roster, which means blaming himself, or blame the coach. And he did what about 99.9% of GM's in that position would do.

I'm not sure Julien was ever Neely's guy; rumors were rampant that Neely wanted to fire Claude at the same time they fired Chiarelli, but decided against it after conducting the exit interviews with the players and then talking to Sweeney.

The whole elevation of Neely to the top spot is rather bizarre. As much as Chiarelli made many of us here crazy, he took over an AHL roster and did assemble a very strong team that contended for a number of years, winning one in the process. He made some serious mistakes towards the end. But he never came across as a dummy. By the time he was fired, he and Sweeney had already started to retool the scouting and the draft. No matter who was GM, they were in for a bit of a painful retooling period. It's not clear to me that Sweeney has done any better or worse than Chiarelli would have done.

It makes me wonder if Chiarelli was the one willing to tell Charlie Jacobs the truth ("hey guys, we're in a bit of a pickle right now with the salary cap and some aging players, and it make take a bit to emerge with a new crop of young talent"), and Neely was the guy willing to say what Jacobs wanted to hear ("When I played, everyone was afraid of the Bruins. I'm going to get some really gritty players in here like Rinaldo and Hayes, bring back Harry Sinden, and Make The Bruins Great Again!").

 

[Zososoxfan]

I'm a believer in changing the voice in the locker room, but the unceremonious way this was handled indicates a mess of management. This is not the way to treat a coach of 10 years who won a title and got you back to the SCF.

It's very clear the issue with this team is roster construction and talent, not coaching. Best of luck Clod, it was wonderful having you the past decade.

 

[The Napkin]

Murph (supposedly) has 2 sources that say timing of PC wasn't from PR department but was ordered from above.

It's Murph so, you know... But...

He also says Claude has 2 job offers.

Banner day for Murph "sources".

 

[veritas]

Cassidy mixing up the lines in practice today. Can't say I'm a fan

 

[jk333]

Vatrano and Spooner on the same line will give up A LOT of goals!

 

[LogansDad]

Vatrano and Spooner on the same line will give up A LOT of goals!

At least we will be able to stop blaming the offense for losses when they only score 1 goal if they are allowing 6 a night....

 

[Maximus]

Hayes on the 3rd line, brilliant.

 

[Titoschew]

Cassidy mixing up the lines in practice today. Can't say I'm a fan

They'll lose 6-2 pretty much every night with this squad.

 

[BigMike]

Vatrano and Spooner on the same line will give up A LOT of goals!

Especially with a rotting corpse on the right side.

 

[Ale Xander]

Cassidy mixing up the lines in practice today. Can't say I'm a fan

They'll need to play 7 on 6 for that 4th line to not get destroyed and even that may not be enough.

 

[burstnbloom]

Let's call up Chelarik and leave him on the 9th floor in favor of Jimmy Hayes

 

[cshea]

Fire Cassidy

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Holy shit guys, it's one fucking practice. Give the guy some time.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

It's true...Sweeney said he needed two practices with the team.

Edit: that said, that 3rd line could really struggle to get out of the zone. OZ faceoffs only for those guys.