Canada 2018 WJC sexual assault investigation

[Fred not Lynn]

This is 1000000000% bullshit and it pisses me off that people will actually believe them

The problem is that it’s technically true. Having knowledge of the pending charges is a different thing than knowing about the incident - and when presented with a player asking leave for mental health reasons, I don’t think you can speculate on the causes - you just need to accept the player and his medical team’s request at face value.

You can’t be asking, “Oh, mental health huh? This doesn’t have anything to do with that gang rape thing you have a 8* in 25 (or so) chance of having been involved with, does it?”, you just need to hear the statement and get out of the way.

It would have been better if the PR statement left out the mental health bit in the statement, but the Flames were in the unfortunate position of dealing with it first - and they got it a bit wrong. The others that followed managed to avoid making the same mistake…

it isn’t a great look for the Flames, but it’s not “fire the GM” bad.

* Reports have said there were 8. Now 5 have been charged. Seems to be 3 missing. What’s up with that?

 

[Red Right Ankle]

@The Mort Report @MuzzyField @Red Right Ankle

My sincere apologies. Bad, bad, very bad submission of an incomplete post. Honestly did not mean to post.

I was attempting to reply about how business responds to requests of employee leave due to mental health issues. I could not formulate a worthy post and thought I deleted.

Good on you for stepping up and admitting the error.

Likely 100% more than the Flames will do.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

The problem is that it’s technically true. Having knowledge of the pending charges is a different thing than knowing about the incident - and when presented with a player asking leave for mental health reasons, I don’t think you can speculate on the causes - you just need to accept the player and his medical team’s request at face value.

You can’t be asking, “Oh, mental health huh? This doesn’t have anything to do with that gang rape thing you have a 8* in 25 (or so) chance of having been involved with, does it?”, you just need to hear the statement and get out of the way.

It would have been better if the PR statement left out the mental health bit in the statement, but the Flames were in the unfortunate position of dealing with it first - and they got it a bit wrong. The others that followed managed to avoid making the same mistake…

it isn’t a great look for the Flames, but it’s not “fire the GM” bad.

* Reports have said there were 8. Now 5 have been charged. Seems to be 3 missing. What’s up with that?

As was pointed out earlier, the likelihood they didn't know why he was really stepping away from the team was approaching zero percent. They did not need to cite mental health when personal reasons would cover it.

 

[Myt1]

The problem is that it’s technically true. Having knowledge of the pending charges is a different thing than knowing about the incident - and when presented with a player asking leave for mental health reasons, I don’t think you can speculate on the causes - you just need to accept the player and his medical team’s request at face value.

You can’t be asking, “Oh, mental health huh? This doesn’t have anything to do with that gang rape thing you have a 8* in 25 (or so) chance of having been involved with, does it?”, you just need to hear the statement and get out of the way.

I’ll bite. Why not?

And why is it a problem that it’s “technically true,” assuming that it is, which I don’t? What, exactly, is the problem?

 

[Fred not Lynn]

I’ll bite. Why not?

And why is it a problem that it’s “technically true,” assuming that it is, which I don’t? What, exactly, is the problem?

The team certainly knew Dube’ was on that WJC team, and that this incident occurred - and could reasonably speculate privately when he invoked “mental health” as reason for his leave that it’s was likely about that.

What the team probably did NOT know was that this specific actual action by London police was imminent. Whether they knew Dube’ specifically was going to be implicated is a whole other matter. I bet there were pretty strong rumors around the league about which guys it was, but I imagine the players union would have a fit if you suspended a guy based on rumors.

I don’t know why they decided to mention “mental health” in the initial statement, though. I’ll continue to concur that was a mistake unless someone has a really good explanation.

 

[OfTheCarmen]

Could it simply possible they decided to mention that as that's what he told them? They're probably not legally allowed to inquire further if he makes such a claim so they wouldnt necessarily have any obligation to validate his claims, especially if he provided some kind of documentation from a medical professional.

 

[The Mort Report]

The team certainly knew Dube’ was on that WJC team, and that this incident occurred - and could reasonably speculate privately when he invoked “mental health” as reason for his leave that it’s was likely about that.

What the team probably did NOT know was that this specific actual action by London police was imminent. Whether they knew Dube’ specifically was going to be implicated is a whole other matter. I bet there were pretty strong rumors around the league about which guys it was, but I imagine the players union would have a fit if you suspended a guy based on rumors.

I don’t know why they decided to mention “mental health” in the initial statement, though. I’ll continue to concur that was a mistake unless someone has a really good explanation.

Here’s the thing though, Dube found out that these charges were coming ahead of time, I would imagine through his lawyer. With how bad this could look for the league when it came up first you think the NHL and the teams didn’t have their investigative arms all over this? I would be shocked if the NHL wasn’t tapped into the investigation

 

[Myt1]

Could it simply possible they decided to mention that as that's what he told them? They're probably not legally allowed to inquire further if he makes such a claim so they wouldnt necessarily have any obligation to validate his claims, especially if he provided some kind of documentation from a medical professional.

Why aren’t they legally allowed to inquire further?

 

[Myt1]

You guys really shouldn’t take PR spin at face value.

 

[OfTheCarmen]

Why aren’t they legally allowed to inquire further?

I'm thinking like if I tell my boss I have to take time off for a medical reason he's not allowed to ask me about it.

 

[cshea]

I'm thinking like if I tell my boss I have to take time off for a medical reason he's not allowed to ask me about it.

Yeah, it doesn't work that way. You can't just tell your boss you need to take a medical leave, walk out the door and still get paid. Employees need to submit documents and proof of the condition and need for a leave. That is then reviewed and approved/denied.

 

[cshea]

FWIW, Bettman says the NHL opened their own investigation in May of 2022, which took them 12 months to complete. They've since been in the process of working with the NHLPA on next steps. They knew the London investigation was re-opened and ongoing but did not know the chargers were coming when they did.

I don't think there's any way the Flames did not know that this was at least possible.

 

[OfTheCarmen]

Yeah, it doesn't work that way. You can't just tell your boss you need to take a medical leave, walk out the door and still get paid. Employees need to submit documents and proof of the condition and need for a leave. That is then reviewed and approved/denied.

If I were applying for Short/Long Term Disability benefits I would agree, but if I'm simply utilizing accrue'd PTO then I think it's different. But, I'm certainly not an HR representative and happy to be wrong.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

If I were applying for Short/Long Term Disability benefits I would agree, but if I'm simply utilizing accrue'd PTO then I think it's different. But, I'm certainly not an HR representative and happy to be wrong.

NHL players don't have accrued PTO. It's all leave.

The Flames are jagoffs and Bettman, a jagoff himself, is now running cover for them by saying the charges coming down were a "surprise," despite the NHL running a year long investigation themselves and knowing the London PD had re-opened the investigation (meaning they likely had a contact at London PD).

 

[mikeford]

Btw all 5 guys got the same charge but McLeod was also given an additional charge of being a party to the crime. I'm not a lawyer (thank god) but my read on him getting the additional charge where no one else did probably means the prosecution believes he was the ringleader.

 

[The Napkin]

If I were applying for Short/Long Term Disability benefits I would agree, but if I'm simply utilizing accrue'd PTO then I think it's different. But, I'm certainly not an HR representative and happy to be wrong.

okay but you've now moved the goal posts so many times we're past Canadian and football we're onto Australia rules or something.

 

[The Napkin]

like I don't get why people insist on tying themselves in knots trying to explain away how shittily the Flames handled this

 

[cshea]

London police press conference underway. They announced the charges. All players charged with 1 count of sexual assault. McLeod also faces a second charge of sexual assault,.

View: https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1754582823028097433?s=20