Cashman's Cano Contract Conundrum

[NDame616]

I think the narrative of "OMG ROOKIE AGENT JAYZ ROYALLY SCREWED THIS UP" is a bit premature until we see how it plays out. Leaked details to the twittersphere don't give me much immediate confidence of facts when two sides are playing a $225M game of chicken

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Regarding the Teixeira deal, didnt Boras keep pushing Boston to 10 years even though he settled for less years in New York..meaning Teixeira only wanted to go to NY from the get go and used the Sox only as extra leverage?
 
Is that what you're saying Corsi? I can't remember the situation exactly.

 

[soxhop411]

there goes Jay-Z's sports agency….

 

[MakMan44]

I think the narrative of "OMG ROOKIE AGENT JAYZ ROYALLY SCREWED THIS UP" is a bit premature until we see how it plays out. Leaked details to the twittersphere don't give me much immediate confidence of facts when two sides are playing a $225M game of chicken

It looks pretty horrible right now. This isn't like it's an established agent who pushed a little too hard but has other clients to fall back on to save face. A bird in the hand and all that. 
 
A 9/225 deal would have been a pretty huge boon to Jay Z, might have drawn in more clients. Now, if it comes down that Cano never wanted to play for the M's and was only using them to extort a better deal out of the Yankees, that's a whole different story. Right now though, Jay Z looks like an idiot and may have blown up his agency career before it started. 

 

[Yaz4Ever]

 And really I just can't see Cano's side limping back to the table to take the 175. I think the Yankees have to let Cano's camp save a little face if they strike a deal, maybe make it 7/180 instead of 7/160-170.

Why would the Yankees want to help Cano/Jay-Z save face?  They're offering more money than 99.999% of the Earth's population will ever make, turned down on the premise that a better offer existed elsewhere, and now (in this scenario) have someone with their tail between their legs returning to the table.  If I'm the Yankees, I stick to my guns.  Hell, I'd tell them we've started talks with other players/teams and might not be able to go as high as we previously offered.
 
Still think someone else will step in, though, and make an attractive offer but nothing close to what the Mariners offered.

 

[moondog80]

Now, if it comes down that Cano never wanted to play for the M's and was only using them to extort a better deal out of the Yankees, that's a whole different story.  

 
Doesn't pretty much everyone assume this to be the case?

 

[Corsi]

Regarding the Teixeira deal, didnt Boras keep pushing Boston to 10 years even though he settled for less years in New York..meaning Teixeira only wanted to go to NY from the get go and used the Sox only as extra leverage?
 
Is that what you're saying Corsi? I can't remember the situation exactly.

 
I'm trying to remember the particulars myself.  
 

After three Red Sox executives met with Boras and Teixeira in Texas and failed to reach a contract agreement, John Henry, the club’s owner, sent an e-mail message to members of the news media that might have been more of a message to Boras.
 
“We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him,” Henry said. “After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor.”
 
The Red Sox were believed to be offering Teixeira, a switch-hitting first baseman, an eight-year contract for slightly more than $20 million a year. But with one late-night e-mail, the Red Sox shifted from being the favorites to sign Teixeira to saying they were out of the negotiations. Or did they?
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/sports/baseball/20redsox.html?_r=0

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Because Jay-z knew that 10/252 would make the CEP explode and leave the room?  Jayz could've been using the Mariners all along solely as leverage against the Yanks.  And then when the Yanks wouldn't bite and Cano didn't want to hit in Seattle, Jayz demanded a deal he knew would infuriate the Mariners. 

Jay-Z's got 99 problems. His pitch was one.

 

[MakMan44]

 
Doesn't pretty much everyone assume this to be the case?

Doesn't mean it's actually correct. He could've actually thought asking for a 10 year was a good idea. 

 

[TheoShmeo]

Because Jay-z knew that 10/252 would make the CEP explode and leave the room?  Jayz could've been using the Mariners all along solely as leverage against the Yanks.  And then when the Yanks wouldn't bite and Cano didn't want to hit in Seattle, Jayz demanded a deal he knew would infuriate the Mariners. 

And how does that give JayZ any leverage against the Yankees?  With the Ms now out of the picture -- assuming that's true -- the Yankees will view themselves as the only game in town.  If I were those mutant bastards, I'd lower my offer or, at minimum, keep it flat.  Is anyone else out there lining up to sign Cano?
 
I'm so torn here.  On the one hand, the thought of the Yankees losing Cano, and the Ellsbury signing playing a role, is delicious.  On the other hand, the thought of the Yankees massively over paying for Cano, and watching that contract become a tremendous albatross over the years, is quite enticing.  And then there's the JayZ factor and how much I will enjoy him being exposed as a total amateur.

 

[ivanvamp]

And how does that give JayZ any leverage against the Yankees?  With the Ms now out of the picture -- assuming that's true -- the Yankees will view themselves as the only game in town.  If I were those mutant bastards, I'd lower my offer or, at minimum, keep it flat.  Is anyone else out there lining up to sign Cano?
 
I'm so torn here.  On the one hand, the thought of the Yankees losing Cano, and the Ellsbury signing playing a role, is delicious.  On the other hand, the thought of the Yankees massively over paying for Cano, and watching that contract become a tremendous albatross over the years, is quite enticing.  And then there's the JayZ factor and how much I will enjoy him being exposed as a total amateur.

 
Yankee contracts never end up being albatrosses, unfortunately.  So I'd much rather have them lose talent.  I hope Cano does end up signing with the Mariners, though I've never thought for one minute that he'll end up anywhere besides NY.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Why would the Yankees want to help Cano/Jay-Z save face?  They're offering more money than 99.999% of the Earth's population will ever make, turned down on the premise that a better offer existed elsewhere, and now (in this scenario) have someone with their tail between their legs returning to the table.  If I'm the Yankees, I stick to my guns.  Hell, I'd tell them we've started talks with other players/teams and might not be able to go as high as we previously offered.
 
Still think someone else will step in, though, and make an attractive offer but nothing close to what the Mariners offered.

 
Because he's now the face of the franchise and has been maybe their best player over the past 5-6 years and will likely go into the Hall of Fame. No need for a scorched earth victory.
The Yankees have pretty much made their final offer public and know that it might be easier to keep him if they kick in an extra 10 mil over the course of the deal (1 mil per AAV bump) rather than have him stay out there, get red-faced and wait for a savior to come in and keep him from NY. Like the Nats, or the Rangers or some other team that is being quiet right now.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

This is shaping up to be a horrible mistake by Cano. Jay-Z has no idea what he's doing.

He was trying to sample from other agents' negotiations.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

If Cano takes the 7/170 deal as is, it's only after he fires Jay Z, let's put it that way.
 
Jay Z won't let him take that "final" offer as long as he is Cano's agent.

 

[nattysez]

What, me worry?  

 

[Sox and Rocks]

You either do 2b vs CF or Infielders vs Outfielders. 2b vs all OFs isn't really a fair comparison.

Not in this case.  The Yankees already had a player capable of playing CF, so signing Ells didn't feel a specific need there.  
 
I was just using a quick example (I thought I made that clear) to prove that the production Cano provides at 2B is harder to find/replace than the production Ells provides in the OF, or even at CF if you prefer.  If you don't agree with this point, then we will agree to disagree.  
 
Even more appropriate would be to compare the other 2B who are/were available in this year's FA group to the outfielders who are/were available.  

 

[jon abbey]

Jay-Z's got 99 problems. His pitch was one.

 
I'm normally not this guy, but I'd like to give this post some love, nicely done. 

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

The only way this get's better is for Scott Boras to release an amateurish, poorly-produced rap song titled - "Jay Z is my Bitch."

 

[jsinger121]

 

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal5m
Source: Talks between Cano, #Mariners still alive.
 

 

[Brickowski]

Because Jay-z knew that 10/252 would make the CEP explode and leave the room?  Jayz could've been using the Mariners all along solely as leverage against the Yanks.  And then when the Yanks wouldn't bite and Cano didn't want to hit in Seattle, Jayz demanded a deal he knew would infuriate the Mariners. 

That sounds about right to me.  Cano would have been crazy to turn down 9/225M if he was willing to play in Seattle.

 

[ivanvamp]

Just think about how much $225 million dollars is.  Let's say you are a regular guy making $50k a year.  Not wealthy, obviously, but not too shabby.  You'd need to work 4,500 years to accumulate $225 million.
 
Heck, even if you make $1 million a year - which definitely puts you in the really rich category, that's 225 years of earning that to get what Cano was offered.
 
I know it's a totally different universe, but my goodness, the numbers that get thrown around in professional sports just boggle my mind.  

 

[bankshot1]

The only way this get's better is for Scott Boras to release an amateurish, poorly-produced rap song titled - "Jay Z is my Bitch."

Or for the Mariners to demand a "free" Jay-Z/Beyoncé Safeco concert to reopen talks.

 

[Drek717]

I don't know. Such an extreme reaction and quick leak of the "immediate breakdown" makes me think this is the Ms are trying to leverage him to take a slightly smaller deal, change the option, etc

That would be my guess as well.  If they wanted him at 9/$225M before I doubt JayZ trying to squeeze more out of them is going to change that.  He's still the same player and the only FA they've gotten to go this far down the road of taking their money.
 
The blow up + immediate leak strikes me as a negotiating ploy where the executive in question knows doing this will make it clear that they aren't going up from 9/$225M and that if Cano doesn't take it it's because he just doesn't want to play in Seattle.
 
Which he really should, honestly.  His offensive game would play fine there, he'd be the face of their franchise and be a big fish in a middle sized pond instead of continuing to live in Jeter's shadow, and when he sucks in his late 30's he won't get much grief for it because no one will particularly notice.

 

[Toe Nash]

Just think about how much $225 million dollars is.  Let's say you are a regular guy making $50k a year.  Not wealthy, obviously, but not too shabby.  You'd need to work 4,500 years to accumulate $225 million.
 
Heck, even if you make $1 million a year - which definitely puts you in the really rich category, that's 225 years of earning that to get what Cano was offered.
 
I know it's a totally different universe, but my goodness, the numbers that get thrown around in professional sports just boggle my mind.  

And yet, the Yankees pulled in over twice that in revenues in 2013 alone.
http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-york-yankees/

 

[glennhoffmania]

Not in this case.  The Yankees already had a player capable of playing CF, so signing Ells didn't feel a specific need there.  
 
  

 
This is an interesting issue that I don't think has been discussed too much.  Isn't Gardner considered to be a better defender than Ellsbury?  So while they certainly improved their LF defense didn't they just make their CF defense worse?  If we're looking at allocation of resources, the most efficient strategy in my opinion would've been to leave Gardner in CF, sign Cano, and sign some pitching. 

 

[jon abbey]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS13s
mariners are close to a deal with Robinson Cano

 

[Corsi]

One source with Seattle connections said the deal will be for "at least" $225 million, suggesting it will likely be more.
 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24366551/mariners-are-closing-in-on-a-deal-with-cano-225m-plus

 

[jsinger121]

I wonder if he went back to the Yankees and they told him they were giving him a lower offer and he crawled back to Seattle.

 

[Corsi]

Morosi:

Mariners and Robinson Cano close on deal, sources confirm @JonHeymanCBS report.
 

 

[Corsi]

Cano deal is for 10 years and $240 million, according to @Enrique_Rojas1.
 

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/408988472137875457

 

[hbk72777]

Let him go. Griffy, Buhner, Ichiro and Johnson couldn't make the Mariners a household word. Nor did did the 116 win season. It's like Siberia for your career.
 
He won't get the amount of commercials that he would in NY. And Seattle is a long way from doing anything.
 
I've never faulted a played for getting huge money. But when it''s over so 170 million, you'd think a few million (even 20)  more isn't worth leaving for a perennial losing team.
 
Get us the corpse of Miguel Cairo

 

[Joe D Reid]

I wonder if he went back to the Yankees and they told him they were giving him a lower offer and he crawled back to Seattle.

If so, sounds like he'll have $225mm worth of kneepads, which should make it easier for him.
 
EDIT: Or $240M. Assuming there was any truth to that story of SEA storming out of the meeting last night, they are complete schmucks for immediately turning around and going the 10th year. Maybe the 10th year will be some sort of illusory, tough-to-reach option or something.   

 

[NDame616]

My guess:
-Both sides go in with 9/225 more or less agreed on
-Jay Z asks for more
-Mariners say no and leak to the press how pissed the are
-Both sides to go breakfast and regroup
-Someone in JayZs camp contacts the Ms and says "let's talk. We are close. Do you really want your fans knowing this blew up because you were looking at 2023, rather than this April when you need to fill the seats?

 

[Average Reds]

Oh, and it looks as if Van Wagenen did OK  by his client.
 
Edit:  where did my first post go?

 

[StuckOnYouk]

The ups and downs of a Yankees fan right now. Their legendary Cano was going to come crawling back they thought. Some even suggested the Yankees make 10 mil off the deal just to show he's boss.
 
And now he'll be an M.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

New thread for Cano is here.

 

[hbk72777]

I know they have the money. But just about every team will have "the money" over the next few years with the tv deals. There's more money than good FA's it seems, and it will only get worse.
 
I don't mind the money, but the length, I never want another 10 year contract on the Yankees again (unless they find a Trout and they buy off his good years)
 
We still have another 4 years of watching A-Rod decline.

 

[DJnVa]

So, everyone dumping on JayZ earlier?  Where you at?

 

[LuckyBen]

So, everyone dumping on JayZ earlier?  Where you at?

And the smugness is once again smacked from Boras's face.

 

[hbk72777]

I think most people dumped on him when he was asking for $310 million

 

[Toe Nash]

I think most people dumped on him when he was asking for $310 million

Or a page ago in this very thread when he supposedly messed up the negotiations by asking for another year.

 

[mauf]

So this means Infante to the Bronx, right?

 

[NDame616]

Or a page ago in this very thread when he supposedly messed up the negotiations by asking for another year.

You mean people talking about how Cano would sign with the Yankees after firing JayZ, the incompetent agent, who cost him $100,0000,000?

 

[Brickowski]

Dumb move by the Mariners, but a blessing for the Yankees.  Now NY can go out and spend for pitching, which is what they should have been doing in the first place.

 

[bankshot1]

better make it flyball pitchers, (maybe Hughes would consider returning) because they got no one to field ground-balls

 

[glennhoffmania]

better make it flyball pitchers, (maybe Hughes would consider returning) because they got no one to field ground-balls

The possibility of an ARod-Jeter-Johnson infield is amusing. 

 

[Sox and Rocks]

 
This is an interesting issue that I don't think has been discussed too much.  Isn't Gardner considered to be a better defender than Ellsbury?  So while they certainly improved their LF defense didn't they just make their CF defense worse?  If we're looking at allocation of resources, the most efficient strategy in my opinion would've been to leave Gardner in CF, sign Cano, and sign some pitching. 

Exactly the point I was making, although I perhaps made it more clear in the "staying under 189" thread.  By signing Ells, the Yanks essentially chose him over Cano, pitching, or staying under the tax thershold, and depending on what happens with the ARod situation, perhaps they even chose Ells over 2 of these three.  I don't understand why they would do so.  

 

[bankshot1]

The possibility of an ARod-Jeter-Johnson infield is amusing.

Yup, the Y-infield is a mess right now. Teixeira better stay healthy, and have great range to his right.

 

[jon abbey]

You guys are (understandably) forgetting about Brendan Ryan, who will presumably get a lot of time at SS and 2B. 

 

[melonbag]

I don't think Boras could have gotten more years or more money than Jay Z did.  He definitely outplayed the M's FO in this deal.