Foxboro is deserted for the next 30 days. Bill is either fishing or traveling.Why haven't the Patriots come out with anything?
Also, not much to say right now.
Foxboro is deserted for the next 30 days. Bill is either fishing or traveling.Why haven't the Patriots come out with anything?
Its only a mandatory minimum if he's convicted or pleads guilty to *that* charge. If he has no priors anywhere (I suspect the Mass authorities will look into his record before pleading him out), they'll probably accept a plea to something not prison-worthy. And if it's only just this time, and he's properly credentialed wherever he's supposed to be, its unlikely the Feds will get involved. At the other extreme, if it turns out he was really bringing he guns to Mass for a guy who is prohibited from owning them, we'll never see him again.Legit chance he is fucked. Massachusetts is way stricter than just about any other state in the country. Mandatory minimums.
My brother got two years in a similar situation but of course he had way less money for an attorney. Took about 3 years for his case to get in front of a judge.
He does have a prior. Robbed a Panda Express while at USC (?)Its only a mandatory minimum if he's convicted or pleads guilty to *that* charge. If he has no priors anywhere (I suspect the Mass authorities will look into his record before pleading him out),
Acknowledging the fact that we've set the stupidity bar pretty low on Mr. Jones, acquiring guns IN Massachusetts to smuggle TO Arizona seems like a poorly thought out plan.Two guns does sort of sound like smuggling...
I agree with most of this - but wanted to note he was arrested for bringing guns from MA into Logan and attempting to fly out somewhere. (Possibly AZ but who knows?)Its only a mandatory minimum if he's convicted or pleads guilty to *that* charge. If he has no priors anywhere (I suspect the Mass authorities will look into his record before pleading him out), they'll probably accept a plea to something not prison-worthy. And if it's only just this time, and he's properly credentialed wherever he's supposed to be, its unlikely the Feds will get involved. At the other extreme, if it turns out he was really bringing he guns to Mass for a guy who is prohibited from owning them, we'll never see him again.
Ben Volin wrote a hit piece in the Globe suggesting that the Pats should cut him immediately. This was before the arraignment.I haven't been paying that close attention, has the news reporting and social media coverage taken that angle to extreme as his lawyer is projecting?
You're so weird.While I can't (and don't) offer legal advice in threads like these, I'll make an exception here: Do NOT fuck around with this stuff on the basis of some guy's opinion on the internet and anecdotal stories about people not being prosecuted. If you are going to be traveling with firearms, consult with multiple reputable sources, including an attorney who is well-versed on these issues. Here endeth my official advice.
She’s the attorney who was in Trial 4, a Netflix doc about a kid who got his conviction overturned after years in jail.His lawyer comes out swinging to the press after court appearance today:
View: https://twitter.com/michaelFhurley/status/1671162591937441793?s=20
She's not talking about that (garbage) piece tho -- she's saying there's some social media "rumor" (her word) out there about him being a thug. I haven't heard it either. That whole thing was bizarre.Ben Volin wrote a hit piece in the Globe suggesting that the Pats should cut him immediately. This was before the arraignment.
That's def. ... a lot of stuff. Academic issues after his sophomore year getting him booted off the team. The Panda Express thing (which I'd never seen explained), getting suspended for the duration of 2020 for an unspecified matter. I have a hard time seeing how you stick by a guy with this now happening.The arrest is the latest off-field difficulty for Jones.
A five-star recruit out of Long Beach Polytechnic High School in California, Jones played two seasons at Southern Cal before getting dismissed in May 2018 because of academic issues.
Three weeks after the team removed him from the roster, Jones was arrested at a Panda Express in Santa Paula, Calif., on suspicion of commercial burglary and conspiracy to commit a crime — two felony charges. The charges were later reduced to a second-degree misdemeanor. Jones served 45 days of house arrest as part of a plea agreement.
After transferring to Moorpark College for the 2018 season, Jones committed to Arizona State. He played in all 13 games in 2019, but was suspended indefinitely after the 2020 season opener for a conduct-related matter. He returned to the field for a productive 2021 season, playing in 11 games.
I agree. Also, first she says it's about social media and then talks about institutional racism in the criminal justice system.She's not talking about that (garbage) piece tho -- she's saying there's some social media "rumor" (her word) out there about him being a thug. I haven't heard it either. That whole thing was bizarre.
There were some good bits in there, but like, maybe if you don't want people to pay attention to social media trolling that your client is a thug. . .perhaps you shouldn't use the word "thug" 50+ times in the interview?Here is the whole post appearance PC outside the courthouse.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcXVdGf33zM&t=171s&ab_channel=MassLive
I lost a very nice Swiss Army knife at the Roman Colosseum. The usual hiking backpack with a little pocket I forgot about. All so I could take my kids into a hopelessly overcrowded tourist hellscape. Wish I could do that over.Two months after 9/11 was going to a Celtics game directly after work. At the time always carried a Swiss Army knife in my pocket just because they're so handy. Get to the turnstiles and see that now everyone has to go through metal detectors. Not wanting to lose the knife as I bought it in Switzerland I see an attendant standing around. Go over and tell him the situation, he clearly is unsure about any protocols but says follow me. Takes me to this little supply closet, opens it and puts it on a shelf next to rolls of paper towels (think bathroom dispensers). Says meet me here after the game.
Game ends, go back to the closet, wait 20-25 minutes start to think maybe this is a lost cause and then he shows up and gives me the knife back.
Had it at 50/50 that I wasn't ever going to see it again, but was very appreciative of what he did. Good guy.
Mix of PR and sending a message to the prosecution that they will have a fight on their hands, so maybe they start working on a deal?What does any of what she's saying have to do with the case?
Let's immediately turn the narrative to race and not the crime of which he is accused.
The Patriots know much more about him than we do of course…. And maybe they should cut him.Ben Volin wrote a hit piece in the Globe suggesting that the Pats should cut him immediately. This was before the arraignment.
Depending on the personality and motivation level of the DA, seems like this strategy could either work or blow up spectacularly.I assume his lawyer's plan is to make it clear to the DA that this is gonna be a huge pain in the ass (probably in part a response to the DA saying "he could face 30 years if convicted on all charges and sentenced consecutively") she's trying to get the DA to say... yeah, plead to disorderly conduct, surrender the weapons, big fine and some probation, just please go away.
I would guess the Panda Express story is very similar to the Golden Tate donught incident. Drunk college kids sneaking into a closed store to steal food.This is a very experienced attorney who has had a lot of success with difficult, high profile cases. She knows what she's doing. From what she said, it sounds like the defense will rest on the fact that Jones had no knowledge he was carrying the guns. If they can't prove he had knowledge, that could lead to most of the charges getting dismissed (or lessened). Possession of a concealed weapon in a secure area of an airport:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section12F
Whoever occupies, or attempts to enter or occupy, a secure area of an airport or the cabin of an airplane, knowingly having in his possession or in his control and knowingly concealing, a cutting device or a prohibited weapon, notwithstanding any license to possess such a weapon or device, shall be punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 21/2 years or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
I'm not a legal expert by any means but I know there are some on SOSH so I will defer to them.
Also, he was not found guilty of "robbing" a Panda Express. He was found guilty of misdemeanor commercial burglary.
The few legal sites I looked at seemed to all point to a similar strategy for defense. The prosecutor needs to prove he was aware of the guns in his bag. Not sure how hard it is to prove, but this appears to be the most common route taken by defenses on a charge like this.This is a very experienced attorney who has had a lot of success with difficult, high profile cases. She knows what she's doing. From what she said, it sounds like the defense will rest on the fact that Jones had no knowledge he was carrying the guns. If they can't prove he had knowledge, that could lead to most of the charges getting dismissed (or lessened). Possession of a concealed weapon in a secure area of an airport:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section12F
Whoever occupies, or attempts to enter or occupy, a secure area of an airport or the cabin of an airplane, knowingly having in his possession or in his control and knowingly concealing, a cutting device or a prohibited weapon, notwithstanding any license to possess such a weapon or device, shall be punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 21/2 years or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
I'm not a legal expert by any means but I know there are some on SOSH so I will defer to them.
Also, he was not found guilty of "robbing" a Panda Express. He was found guilty of misdemeanor commercial burglary.
No. It's far more in the realm of client PR/attorney advertising.Is the tactic here to use the media to just get one potential juror to buy this institutional racism angle in case it does go to trial?
Shrug. I rather doubt that the defense attorney pushing back on social media and "the system" in general is going to raise any eyebrows in the DA's office.Depending on the personality and motivation level of the DA, seems like this strategy could either work or blow up spectacularly.
So, he needs a fall guy to say he packed his luggage and forgot to mention the guns?The few legal sites I looked at seemed to all point to a similar strategy for defense. The prosecutor needs to prove he was aware of the guns in his bag. Not sure how hard it is to prove, but this appears to be the most common route taken by defenses on a charge like this.
Paging Myles Bryant...So, he needs a fall guy to say he packed his luggage and forgot to mention the guns?
Feels that way.So, he needs a fall guy to say he packed his luggage and forgot to mention the guns?
I don't understand at all how the prosecution is responsible to prove this. (this isn't directly at you personally and I understand burden of guilt is on prosecution). But the guns were in a bag with his name on it, that he personally brought into the airport and attempted to pass through security. Unless he can find someone else to take the fall it's him. Claiming ignorance of the bag's content doesn't waive him of responsibility.I assume actually proving Jones himself put them in the bag is a fairly high bar to clear
It makes no sense, you are correct.I don't understand at all how the prosecution is responsible to prove this. (this isn't directly at you personally and I understand burden of guilt is on prosecution). But the guns were in a bag with his name on it, that he personally brought into the airport and attempted to pass through security. Unless he can find someone else to take the fall it's him. Claiming ignorance of the bag's content doesn't waive him of responsibility.
It's just like, someone could bring a bag in with a couple sticks of dynamite or explosives and just say 'oops not mine, don't know where that came from' and they get to go free? That doesn't make sense.
In no conceivable world am I a lawyer, but to what degree can ignorance be used as a valid excuse for breaking any law? I mean, let's be honest, there are thousands of laws just in Massachusetts.I don't understand at all how the prosecution is responsible to prove this. (this isn't directly at you personally and I understand burden of guilt is on prosecution). But the guns were in a bag with his name on it, that he personally brought into the airport and attempted to pass through security. Unless he can find someone else to take the fall it's him. Claiming ignorance of the bag's content doesn't waive him of responsibility.
It's just like, someone could bring a bag in with a couple sticks of dynamite or explosives and just say 'oops not mine, don't know where that came from' and they get to go free? That doesn't make sense.
Also, don’t you have to rapid fire click “agree” to a bunch of stuff that you packed your bags/know what’s in your bags before getting your boarding pass?I don't understand at all how the prosecution is responsible to prove this. (this isn't directly at you personally and I understand burden of guilt is on prosecution). But the guns were in a bag with his name on it, that he personally brought into the airport and attempted to pass through security. Unless he can find someone else to take the fall it's him. Claiming ignorance of the bag's content doesn't waive him of responsibility.
It's just like, someone could bring a bag in with a couple sticks of dynamite or explosives and just say 'oops not mine, don't know where that came from' and they get to go free? That doesn't make sense.
This is not an exact parallel argument. Nobody is saying the guns are not his, it's whether he intended to bring them to the airport, or onto a plane. Another way to think of it would be: if someone accidentally brought weapons into an airport should that constitute them going to prison? People on this very site have owned up to accidentally bringing weapons into a security area so should they, too, pay a similar price?It's just like, someone could bring a bag in with a couple sticks of dynamite or explosives and just say 'oops not mine, don't know where that came from' and they get to go free? That doesn't make sense.
I think this is right and the parallel you draw is a good one. It's interesting looking at the articles for both Williams and Jones, and how many of them attempt to criminalize the players by suggesting they intended to bring the guns (e.g. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/sports/patriots-jack-jones-arrested-after-trying-to-bring-2-guns-onto-logan-flight-police-say/3070548/)I assume actually proving Jones himself put them in the bag is a fairly high bar to clear, especially with a heavyweight legal team on his side. Probably why we see so charges like Quinnen Williams cleared or plead down.
All crimes are different in severity, no?This is not an exact parallel argument. Nobody is saying the guns are not his, it's whether he intended to bring them to the airport, or onto a plane. Another way to think of it would be: if someone accidentally brought weapons into an airport should that constitute them going to prison? People on this very site have owned up to accidentally bringing weapons into a security area so should they, too, pay a similar price?
Not really following you here. The lawyer attempted to frame the discussion in that SM and the media immediately jumped to portray him as a thug and that this is the issue that all young black men in this country deal with. While there's certainly truth there on a national level in Jones's case I haven't seen anything of the sort. It's just her attempt to pivot from the actual question of why did he have a bag of guns at the airport.In other words, I agree with his lawyer that the media didn't do a good job covering the story. Mostly they focused on his presumed guilt and framed the story in a way to suggest intent.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but will offer my 2 cents. A couple of months after 9/11 my father in law passed away in Florida. My youngest daughter was in high school and used her school back pack as her carry on for the flight. She totally forgot about a small pair of scissors that were inside one of the side pockets. Totally understandable, the scissors were confiscated, no big deal. I cannot fathom a world where one forgets about TWO guns in his carry on luggage. I mean my carry on is used for items I wish to carry on. Did he not place any other articles in the bag? If so, how do you not see two guns and think, "I need to take care of these."?. If he just grabbed the bag and added nothing to it then what did he think accounted for the weight in the bag? I mean maybe he has an identical bag containing toiletries and grabbed the wrong bag, but if that's the case don't you double check to make sure that you've got the right bag?I’ve never owned a gun but a number of times I’ve forgotten that I’ve had a knife in my backpack (not like a Crocodile Dundee knife but still…definitely a knife) and gone through TSA. They’ve always caught it and have confiscated it. Obviously I meant no harm with it but I just forgot it’s there. They’ve been right to take it and I just blame myself for my own forgetfulness. Yes this has happened a few times actually.
I have no idea what happened in Jones’s case but it wouldn’t at all be shocking to imagine him thinking he was going to check the bag, then at the airport thinking, forgetting he had guns in there, nah I’ll just carry it on instead. I’ve done THAT (minus the guns) a few times too.
But either way… holy cow not good.
Good questions. No idea.I'm a bit late to the party here, but will offer my 2 cents. A couple of months after 9/11 my father in law passed away in Florida. My youngest daughter was in high school and used her school back pack as her carry on for the flight. She totally forgot about a small pair of scissors that were inside one of the side pockets. Totally understandable, the scissors were confiscated, no big deal. I cannot fathom a world where one forgets about TWO guns in his carry on luggage. I mean my carry on is used for items I wish to carry on. Did he not place any other articles in the bag? If so, how do you not see two guns and think, "I need to take care of these."?. If he just grabbed the bag and added nothing to it then what did he think accounted for the weight in the bag? I mean maybe he has an identical bag containing toiletries and grabbed the wrong bag, but if that's the case don't you double check to make sure that you've got the right bag?
FWIW, I have a license in MA. I cannot fathom a world where one forgets about two guns anywhere.I cannot fathom a world where one forgets about TWO guns in his carry on luggage.
But you run into a slippery slope problem. If you say a small knife is fine, what about a larger knife, or a smaller gun? Last year over 6,500 guns (18 guns a day) were found in airport security across the country, 88% of which were loaded. TSA started putting up signs to remind passengers not to carry guns through secure areas of the airport because it was happening so often. So, by your logic, all of those people should go to prison.All crimes are different in severity, no?
To reference a post above, if you brought baby chicks into the state you're breaking the law but nobody is potentially getting harmed.
I'm not sure what falls under your umbrella of bringing weapons to the airport is, but having a reasonably sized knife on your person or bag isn't illegal. You're just not allowed to carry it onto a plane. That's not a crime, they just take it from you, no different then the water bottle I forgot about.
I'm not sure about the "thug" part. I realize that was what she focused on and yes, to some degree, she is playing lawyer games. My point is that the media, on a large scale, portrayed him in a way to suggest he intended to bring in the guns, which we don't know is true. They also presumed guilt and focused on the repercussions of his guilt. And, of course, this points to a larger discussion about the way in which the media tends to criminalize black men (the lawyer's larger point).Not really following you here. The lawyer attempted to frame the discussion in that SM and the media immediately jumped to portray him as a thug and that this is the issue that all young black men in this country deal with. While there's certainly truth there on a national level in Jones's case I haven't seen anything of the sort. It's just her attempt to pivot from the actual question of why did he have a bag of guns at the airport.
Paging Ty Law's cousin....So, he needs a fall guy to say he packed his luggage and forgot to mention the guns?