Celtics 75th Anniversary Team announced

[CaptainLaddie]

View: https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/1489376959905898497


Ray Allen, Larry Bird, Bob Cousy, Dave Cowens, Kevin Garnett, John Havlicek, Tommy Heinsohn, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Paul Pierce, Bill Russell, Bill Sharman and Jo Jo White.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Ainge is gonna be pissed.

No Tiny or Cornbread.

And who’s the starting 5 again? Hell, who’s the 6th man?? Me, in today’s NBA (assuming someone like Russell would spend some time now shooting 3s): Russell, Garnett, Bird, Allen, DJ. That’s a switchable line-up that could play hellacious D and still shoot/score. Teams would hunt Allen, but he was a decent defender when he had to be, and with Russell and Garnett on the court, along with Bird’s awareness? Lordy. 6th man: Hondo. Then McHale.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

1950s: Cousy, Sharman
1960s: Heinsohn, Jones, Russell
1970s: Cowens, Havlicek, White
1980s: Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parish,
1990s:
2000s: Allen, Garnett, Pierce
2010s:

I'm a little skeptical of the inclusion of DJ, but everyone else seems obvious.

 

[Ale Xander]

Allen over Ainge is a mistake

First team:
Cousy
Sam Jones
Bird
KG
Russell

6th man
Havlicek

2nd team
JoJo
Pierce
McHale
Cowens

3rd team
DJ
Allen
Sharman
Heinsohn
Chief

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Is no Reggie Lewis a surprise to others?

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

As much as I love DJ and he was probably a reflexive addition as part of the '80s teams, you could argue Tiny or Rondo ahead of him on this team. (With entire careers considered, it is definitely 1.Tiny, 2.DJ, 3.Rondo IMO.)

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Ainge is gonna be pissed.

No Tiny or Cornbread.

And who’s the starting 5 again? Hell, who’s the 6th man??

I hate to say it, but I think:

Starters: Russell, McHale, Bird, Pierce, Cousy
6th man: Hondo (duh)
Rotation: Cowens, Garnett, Jones, White
Deep Bench: Parish, Heinsohn, Allen
Not dressed: Sharman, Johnson

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Are active players excluded? Because if not, DJ over Rondo seems wrong. DJ had a better career, but Rondo had a better Celtics career. More all-stars, all-NBA, same number of All Defense. Maybe it's recency bias but yeah, that's my main quibble here.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Is no Reggie Lewis a surprise to others?

I think what hurts Lewis the most is we basically got an improved version 2.0 of him in Paul Pierce, a relatively short time in the future. But yes I think with a few more years of his prime, which was obviously shut down tragically, he would line up well against most on this list.

 

[snowmanny]

Allen is 15th on that list for me. I think I'd put Tatum on instead.

Edit: Bill Sharman was All-NBA first team four seasons and All-NBA second team three seasons

 

[Ale Xander]

KC Jones should be there before DJ too.

 

[BigMike]

Is no Reggie Lewis a surprise to others?

Can make a good argument for him over Allen. honestly Lewis has a better argument than Ainge does. Also Ant oine Walker

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Are active players excluded? Because if not, DJ over Rondo seems wrong. DJ had a better career, but Rondo had a better Celtics career. More all-stars, all-NBA, same number of All Defense. Maybe it's recency bias but yeah, that's my main quibble here.

If active players were included, why not Tatum?

 

[JM3]

5 seasons of Ray Allen seemed like not enough to me, but I guess it depends on list criteria. Just for fun, here's the list sorted by seasons with Celtics (seasons with other teams in parentheses).

Havlicek - 16 (0)
Pierce - 15 (4)
Parish - 14 (7)
Cousy - 13 (0)
Bird - 13 (0)
McHale - 13 (0)
Russell - 13 (0)
Jones - 12 (0)
Sharman - 10 (1)
Cowens - 10 (1)
White - 9.6 (2.4)
Heinsohn - 9 (0)
DJ - 7 (7)
KG - 6 (15)
Allen - 5 (13)

 

[JM3]

Some random trivia in spoilers...

The Celtics all time leader in points per game isn't on the list.

Spoiler

Isaiah Thomas, 24.7 ppg

The player who has played the most games for the Celtics who didn't make this list is...

Spoiler

Satch Sanders, 7th overall at 916, 1 less than Cousy

For the Celtics, this player who missed the list played 552 games over 8 seasons & averaged 20.6 points (6th in Celtics history) & 8.7 rebounds (8th in Celtics history) per game.

Spoiler

Antoine Walker

This player who also missed the list played for the Celtics in 9 different seasons & is their all time leader is assists per game (8.5), steals per game (1.9) & assist % (41.6).

Spoiler

Rajon Rondo

Because that last one was so easy... this player who played on the Celtics for 5 of his 14 seasons is 2nd all time in assist % at 34.9.

Spoiler

Sherman Douglas

Another player who could claim he was snubbed played 6 of his 10 seasons with the Celtics, averaging 18.9 ppg & 8.1 rpg. This man is 10th all time in triple doubles with the Celtics (with 2!) & is 5th in Celtics history in offensive win shares with 64.4 (& is 2nd in WS/48 behind a current Celtic (.214 to .246).

Spoiler

Ed Macauley

Spoiler

Robert Williams

 

[barclay]

The damn shame for me is that we never had the opportunity to see Len Bias play. What a talent, and I bet he would've been on the anniversary team. It still hurts to think about it.

 

[Jimbodandy]

List is pretty solid. I'd take off Allen for Maxwell, but otherwise love it.

 

[bankshot1]

Allen off

KC Jones in

 

[Captaincoop]

No way Allen should be on there. Rondo or Ainge or KC would be good replacements.

It feels like a Celtics 75th team has a 1 Championship minimum, which excludes a deserving Reggie, but otherwise feels appropriate.

 

[jose melendez]

I thought this was 75 for 75, and couldn't figure out how Reggie wasn't on. Knowing this is only 15, Ray being on is silly.

 

[jose melendez]

There's no way on Earth Ainge should have been on. Not for this franchise.

 

[djbayko]

There's no way on Earth Ainge should have been on. Not for this franchise.

He can be the GM.

Wait...no way in hell.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I thought this was 75 for 75, and couldn't figure out how Reggie wasn't on. Knowing this is only 15, Ray being on is silly.

The thinking has to be that the significance of 2008 looms larger because it was the one banner the C's won in a span of 35 years and counting.

1947-1956: 10 years, zero titles, 0 finals losses
1957-1986: 30 years, 16 titles, 3 finals losses
1987-2021: 35 years, 1 title, 1 finals loss

 

[Cesar Crespo]

He can be the GM.

Wait...no way in hell.

He can be the shit stirrer.

 

[snowmanny]

He can be the GM.

Wait...no way in hell.

He’d trade Bird, McHale and Parish for picks.

 

[bankshot1]

Its easier to to celebrate and market '08 than it is '65. Plus it gets Ray to show up.

When I think of great Celtic guards, and there are a lot of them, Ray isn't in my top 6

 

[Jimbodandy]

He’d trade Bird, McHale and Parish for picks.

He'd trade them all for wings who can't shoot.

 

[Kliq]

I think the team is perfect. People are underrating DJ; his defense was huge for banners 15 and 16; and gave the Celtics the lock-down perimeter defender they needed so they could stop getting torched by players like Andrew Toney. He's I think clearly a better player than Ainge or Lewis. I think Ray Allen also deserves a spot; his counting stats might be a bit underwhelming, but he was a guy averaging 25-26 ppg before coming to Boston and sacrificing a ton to be a primarily off-ball shooter, and was key to some very successful teams.

You could make a case for Rondo or Ed MaCauley (6x All-Star, 3x First Team All NBA) but they are borderline. KC Jones, Frank Ramsey, Bailey Howell and Satch Sanders also in the mix.

 

[lexrageorge]

Its easier to to celebrate and market '08 than it is '65. Plus it gets Ray to show up.

When I think of great Celtic guards, and there are a lot of them, Ray isn't in my top 6

It's an interesting discussion regarding best Celtics guards, IMO (inactive players only).

Going in rough chronological order, for notable backcourt players you had Bill Sharman, Frank Ramsey, Bob Cousy, KC Jones, Sam Jones, Don Chaney, JoJo White, Chris Ford, Tiny Archibald, DJ, Danny Ainge, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo. You cannot deny Cousy, White, Sam Jones, or Sharman a spot in the Top 15. DJ over KC Jones is a close call, IMO, but the '84 and '86 Celtics don't win titles w/o DJ, and I have no problem putting Johnson ahead of all the others remaining on that list.

I do think people here are underselling Ray Allen quite a bit. First, there is zero doubt that his overall career as a shooting guard matches up with the best on that list. The one black mark that I can see is that his time with the Celtics was relatively short (5 seasons), and he was the 3rd banana on those teams the entire time. But I don't think his topping Rondo (seriously?) or Ainge or forwards like Antoine Walker on that list is a mistake. Yes, Ainge was here for 8 seasons, but was basically a bench player for the first 3, and it was only his final 2 seasons that he became a deadly 3 point shooter (much to Bob Cousy's chagrin, IIRC). Yeah, Allen left as a free agent; seriously, who really cares at this point.

And any list of 15 Top Celtics players is going to have some difficult omissions. In no particular order, Ramsey, Maxwell, Walker, Ainge, Nelson, KC Jones, Rondo, Satch Sanders and Greg Kite are the most difficult ones to leave off, and there are probably others as well.

 

[djbayko]

He’d trade Bird, McHale and Parish for picks.

This is funny. But I was more saying this because there might be someone else in Celtics history who has a greater claim.

 

[lexrageorge]

He'd trade them all for wings who can't shoot.

This is funny. But I was more saying this because there might be someone else in Celtics history who has a greater claim.

Well, Ainge has said multiple times that Red made a mistake in not moving on from that core in the late 1980's. And I'm still OK with the last time Ainge did exactly this.

 

[Ale Xander]

In no particular order, Ramsey, Maxwell, Walker, Ainge, Nelson, KC Jones, Rondo, Satch Sanders and Greg Kite are the most difficult ones to leave off, and there are probably others as well.

WTF?

 

[Jimbodandy]

WTF?

Nobody intentionally fouled better than Greg Kite.

 

[Ale Xander]

Nobody intentionally fouled better than Greg Kite.

McHale is already on the team.

 

[lexrageorge]

WTF?

Sigh....I thought the implied "/s" or "/jk" would have been obvious.

 

[bankshot1]

WTF?

I think lex meant Henry Finkel.

I think I'd put Bailey Howell, (good gunner/scorer that nobody saw play) Don Nelson and Paul Silas (way underrated as a player) ahead of Ainge in terms of top-15 rankings, irrespective of position, and on-court impact.

 

[Jimbodandy]

McHale is already on the team.

McHale has one famous one. It’s the first bullet point on Kite's professional resume.

 

[mikeford]

Ray Allen? Never heard of em.

Cornbread won a damn finals MVP for this franchise, put that man on the team.

 

[Marbleheader]

Wonder if his inclusion is partly the Celtics trying to mend fences with Ray Allen.

 

[lars10]

Wonder if his inclusion is partly the Celtics trying to mend fences with Ray Allen.

Why does it matter so much to mend fences with Allen? To me Allen is a Sonic or Heat player.. he's the least Celtic'y' of all the players on that list. Maxwell, Antoine and Rondo are the most obvious exclusions for me... maybe Antoine wasn't an all time great, but there were times he carried the team and made otherwise abysmal teams sort of fun to watch.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Ray Allen? Never heard of em.

Cornbread won a damn finals MVP for this franchise, put that man on the team.

Max went 24/8/8 in game 7 of the finals that he didn't win MVP for (1984). Criminally overlooked contributor.

 

[mikeford]

Circling back on the Ray Allen thing in light of the NBA top 75 reveal from All Star Weekend

Here's KG and Paul watching Ray laugh and dap it up with Lebron.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Circling back on the Ray Allen thing in light of the NBA top 75 reveal from All Star Weekend

Here's KG and Paul watching Ray laugh and dap it up with Lebron.

I love that they’ll take this grudge to their graves. KG is the best.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I love that they’ll take this grudge to their graves. KG is the best.

KG looks like he could still play. Will always love his intensity.

 

[BigSoxFan]

KG looks like he could still play. Will always love his intensity.

Yup. Really is too bad they didn’t get another ring. That 5 year stretch was deserving of multiple rings.

 

[Kliq]

KG looks like he could still play. Will always love his intensity.

I remember Adam Sandler saying that when they were working on Uncut Gems, the original plan was to have Embiid as the star NBA player, but after a while they realized that due to scheduling, it was impractical to have an active NBA player in the movie. So they instead needed to find a retired player, with the caveat being that they needed to look like they could still be playing, which led them to KG.

 

[runnels3]

I think lex meant Henry Finkel.

I think I'd put Bailey Howell, (good gunner/scorer that nobody saw play) Don Nelson and Paul Silas (way underrated as a player) ahead of Ainge in terms of top-15 rankings, irrespective of position, and on-court impact.

Both were all-stars during their time with the Cs. Both banged the boards ferociously. I think it's fair to say without them the Cs don't win in '68, '69 & '74, '76.

 

[m0ckduck]

How about this Celtics career?

8 seasons, 552 games played, 20.6 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2-time Allstar.

Spoiler

Yes, it's Antoine Walker.

No, he doesn't belong, but if you were looking at stats only, you'd be baffled by his exclusion.

 

[m0ckduck]

I think lex meant Henry Finkel.

I think I'd put Bailey Howell, (good gunner/scorer that nobody saw play) Don Nelson and Paul Silas (way underrated as a player) ahead of Ainge in terms of top-15 rankings, irrespective of position, and on-court impact.

Silas is a good pick and captain of any all-underrated Celtics team.

Dino Radja would also be on that team. I don't have fond memories of the Dino Radja era, but he was all-rookie and probably on his way to an all-star appearance or two before injuries. He's kind of like the Nick Esasky of Celtics history. I can't think of a more completely forgotten player in franchise history, relative to the quality of his on-court performance (edit: maybe Ed McCauley, but that was an awfully long time ago).