Julius Randle? D'Angelo Russell?Boston could still outbid LA, because #2 is all LA would have to trade. I guess Clarkson too. Still not a lot.
Julius Randle? D'Angelo Russell?Boston could still outbid LA, because #2 is all LA would have to trade. I guess Clarkson too. Still not a lot.
Well, I suppose they could empty the roster and be Jimmy Butler and the D League All Stars, and the proper response in that situation is to say "OK, LA, you can have him, we're on to other guys."Julius Randle? D'Angelo Russell?
They also have 62 million dollars in cap space.Well, I suppose they could empty the roster and be Jimmy Butler and the D League All Stars, and the proper response in that situation is to say "OK, LA, you can have him, we're on to other guys."
And that may be all they have if they don't win the lottery. I think that they're a lot more likely to go hunting in the bargain bin (Carmelo) and/or chasing after hometown star DeMar DeRozan.They also have 62 million dollars in cap space.
Okay. Point being, if they trade for Jimmy Butler they have a really clear, obvious path to not just being Jimmy Butler and a bunch of D-League guys.And that may be all they have if they don't win the lottery. I think that they're a lot more likely to go hunting in the bargain bin (Carmelo) and/or chasing after hometown star DeMar DeRozan.
We have two guards that play Butler's position who would become expendable in Bradley and Smart. We also have other picks to sweeten the deal. If Butler is the target we should be able to put together the best offer.What if Boston gets 4th and LA gets #2?
If we go into next season with Thomas as our 4th best player, I'm building Ainge a statue.1) Al Horford as a free agent.
2) Jimmy Butler for Brooklyn's top 5 pick and Marcus Smart.
3) ? for another Celtics guard and Brooklyn's first round 2017 (swap) and 2018 picks.
Am I misstating that? Do people feel that we don't need a third star? Or that Isaiah Thomas is the third star?
Well, Horford wouldn't count as one of the top three. Thomas is much more valuable.If we go into next season with Thomas as our 4th best player, I'm building Ainge a statue.
It would make more sense to ship Bradley instead of Smart since the Bulls would need a starting 2 and we would prefer to have Smart to defend 3's in a smallball lineup with Turner gone. The $6m salary difference would help us too as we'd be taking on a ton of money.Ixnay on trading Marcus Smart.
We were always locked in at #16 for the Dallas pick.Since Dallas is now out of the playoffs where are we on their/our draft pick?
Not necessarilyWe were always locked in at #16 for the Dallas pick.
We are locked in at #23 for our own pick.
Very interesting. I remember you said something in a previous post that you had a source who said that the infamous trade offer that Ainge revealed the day after the trade deadline was not for Jahlil Okafor like some speculated.Short of getting the #1 pick, they're trading the pick for Jimmy Butler. Heard it here first.
I'm not sure about bowiac's sources, but it was reported in several places that Ainge made lowball offers at the trading deadline for both Butler and Kevin Love. The Okafor deal wouldn't make sense until the two teams' draft slots are known.Very interesting. I remember you said something in a previous post that you had a source who said that the infamous trade offer that Ainge revealed the day after the trade deadline was not for Jahlil Okafor like some speculated.
Is this info from another trusted source or is this more of a gut feeling?
I'm not sure about bowiac's sources, but it was reported in several places that Ainge made lowball offers at the trading deadline for both Butler and Kevin Love. The Okafor deal wouldn't make sense until the two teams' draft slots are known.
I remember something in between what you two remember. I believe the source was KC Johnson and he said that the Bulls and Celtics were talking for a while but the Bulls pulled out when Ainge refused to include Crowder in any trade.I don't remember the story saying it was a lowball. I thought the deal was close and Bulls pulled out at the end.
The comment I remember was that Ainge's offer for Butler included no starters and no Brooklyn picks, and that the Bulls considered it a lowball offer.I had some inside info from a Boston sports reporter that matched up with what bowiac has posted and we PM'd to confirm stories. Butler was one of the targets and one I also expect to be revisited on draft day.
The lowball offer was reportedly for Love (saw that on RealGM). I didn't see that we lowballed an offer for Butler, although since a deal didn't get made maybe the Bulls thought so
It really depends on where they're drafting and what other teams have to bid. LA might not even have a first round pick, and I don't think the Laker Youth are good enough to carry a package on their own. For all practical purposes I suspect that the competition is Philadelphia and Minnesota. They're really the competition here, and if Thibs wants him enough, I suspect that a package of Wiggins/Levine/2016 #1/2018 #1 is tough to beat (I mean Wiggins is a streaky shooter, but so's Butler).I am trying to think of what would be a good package to get Butler. All of our picks in this draft and Bradley? Seems to me like we'd need to add more but I am not sure of what we can give up that would move the needle. (I don't think Ainge wants to trade Crowder, Smart or IT) Would next years 1st rounder have to be included as well?
You think Jimmy Butler nets Andrew Wiggins, LeVine and two number ones? There's no way Minnesota even entertains that at this point.It really depends on where they're drafting and what other teams have to bid. LA might not even have a first round pick, and I don't think the Laker Youth are good enough to carry a package on their own. For all practical purposes I suspect that the competition is Philadelphia and Minnesota. They're really the competition here, and if Thibs wants him enough, I suspect that a package of Wiggins/Levine/2016 #1/2018 #1 is tough to beat (I mean Wiggins is a streaky shooter, but so's Butler).
If Boston manages a top 2 pick, though, the calculus changes. And more precisely I think whoever ends up with the right to draft Ingram wins this going away. If Minnesota wins Wiggins/Ingram is an impossible to top package. If Philly ends up #1 then Okafor/Ingram is tough to top.
That's an insane price. Chicago would take Wiggins on his own.One of the local Minnesota beat writers was talking about Thibodeau possible acquiring Butler now that he's the Wolves coach and he stated that the package would have to be Wiggins, the 2016 #1 and other stuff for Chicago to even consider a deal. Not sure how credible that writer is, but it tells you what people think Butler can net in a trade.
Maybe David Kahn is now the local beat writer?That's an insane price. Chicago would take Wiggins on his own.
I think it tells us that beat writer is a clown, actually.One of the local Minnesota beat writers was talking about Thibodeau possible acquiring Butler now that he's the Wolves coach and he stated that the package would have to be Wiggins, the 2016 #1 and other stuff for Chicago to even consider a deal. Not sure how credible that writer is, but it tells you what people think Butler can net in a trade.
My post this time was a gut feeling.Very interesting. I remember you said something in a previous post that you had a source who said that the infamous trade offer that Ainge revealed the day after the trade deadline was not for Jahlil Okafor like some speculated.
Is this info from another trusted source or is this more of a gut feeling?
Very interesting. It sounds like my idea of all the picks this year and Avery Bradley for Butler is a pretty good starting point (maybe take out Bradley if they can trade up to the 10th or 11th spot)My post this time was a gut feeling.
In the post you reference, there was a potential deal at the deadline where the Celtics offered the Brooklyn pick for Butler, and thought the deal was done, but the Bulls changed their minds at the last minute. (At the time, I didn't name Butler, just said it wasn't Okafor). I have no new info concerning Butler since then, but I believe the underlying dynamics are the same: the Bulls are shopping Butler; the Celtics want Butler; the Celtics probably don't want to wait 4-5 years for another rookie to develop. I'm just taking a guess that they'll find a way to close the gap in the offseason.
As Nate Duncan pointed out on a recent pod, the Clips face a conundrum in that one on the hand Griffin is at the nadir of his value right now but on the other it is reasonably likely that his value continues to decline as he ages and gets closer to free agencyI think the Clips will look at trading Griffin, but that the market's going to be tough with so much uncertainty surrounding his health and the knowledge that his entire game is predicated on athleticism. His value would probably be higher if he hadn't tried to come back this season, as odd as that seems.
Is 68% really that bad for a college freshman though? He should easily improve into the mid-70's.Ingram's 68% FT percentage is a red flag for me if I'm expecting him to be a good shooter right off the bat. They're different skillsets, but they're related.
That could easily be a product of coaching, though. Particularly since he plays for Duke.My concern with him extending his range is that he has shown little or no inclination to take face-up jumpers in the games I've seen.
Wait I'm confused. I thought bowiac was referring to Simmons shooting. Ingram is already a lights out 3-point shooter why would we be concerned about him?That could easily be a product of coaching, though. Particularly since he plays for Duke.
Bowiac was talking about Ingram, not Simmons. And IIRC, college FT% correlates pretty decently to NBA 3P%, so Ingram's lackluster performance there would warrant a red flag.Wait I'm confused. I thought bowiac was referring to Simmons shooting. Ingram is already a lights out 3-point shooter why would we be concerned about him?
Right.....as far as the player developing accurate NBA 3-point range like a Simmons. Ingram already has the 3-point shot with NBA range so what he does at the FT line isn't relevant to a skill which he already possesses. Even if it is 68% isn't bad at all for a freshman big it's actually pretty decent. I honestly thought this was about Simmons which would make sense.Bowiac was talking about Ingram, not Simmons. And IIRC, college FT% correlates pretty decently to NBA 3P%, so Ingram's lackluster performance there would warrant a red flag.
Apologies. I misread the quote.Wait I'm confused. I thought bowiac was referring to Simmons shooting. Ingram is already a lights out 3-point shooter why would we be concerned about him?
Make it happen,Very interesting. It sounds like my idea of all the picks this year and Avery Bradley for Butler is a pretty good starting point (maybe take out Bradley if they can trade up to the 10th or 11th spot)
If you're confident Ingram is already a good NBA three-point shooter, then I agree it's not salient. It just wasn't (and still isn't) clear to me that he does have that kind of range. By itself, shooting 41% from three in college doesn't mean all that much, which is why most NCAA projection models also look at FT%. I don't watch much college basketball outside of Michigan, so take it with a grain of salt of course.Right.....as far as the player developing accurate NBA 3-point range like a Simmons. Ingram already has the 3-point shot with NBA range so what he does at the FT line isn't relevant to a skill which he already possesses. Even if it is 68% isn't bad at all for a freshman big it's actually pretty decent. I honestly thought this was about Simmons which would make sense.