Chiefs tampering discussion

[tims4wins]

Jets were fined what, $100K for Revis last year? Chiefs were stripped of a 3rd rounder this year and another pick next year. Completely arbitrary and inconsistent. Which is what we have been saying about DFG all along.

Any chance this starts to wake up some of the owners and realize they are just at much at risk of these arbitrary punishments as the hated Pats? Or naaaaaw.

 

[BlackJack]

There is a chance that it wakes them up. The chance is zero.

 

[natpastime162]

Jets were fined what, $100K for Revis last year? Chiefs were stripped of a 3rd rounder this year and another pick next year. Completely arbitrary and inconsistent. Which is what we have been saying about DFG all along.

Any chance this starts to wake up some of the owners and realize they are just at much at risk of these arbitrary punishments as the hated Pats? Or naaaaaw.

You missed the best part. The punishment was for improper contact with Jeremy Maclin.

 

[DJnVa]

Maclin is pretty fucking good or I'm missing something.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Maclin is pretty fucking good or I'm missing something.

Fantasy football has ruined rational discussion about skill positions players

 

[natpastime162]

Maclin is pretty fucking good or I'm missing something.

Revis and Maclin signed on the same day

 

[E5 Yaz]

Revis and Maclin signed on the same day

So? Sorry, but your point isn't coming through

 

[Section15Box113]

Revis and Maclin signed on the same day

Well, there you go. The league office can't pay attention to two things at once. Focus on one, bring down the hammer. The other? Meh.

 

[pappymojo]

The difference between what the Chiefs did with Maclin and what the Jets did with Revis, is that the Chiefs fully cooperated with the league and the Jets told Goodell to get bent, and then Woody threw trash at Goodell's head as he was leaving the room.

 

[DJnVa]

The difference between what the Chiefs did with Maclin and what the Jets did with Revis, is that the Chiefs fully cooperated with the league and the Jets told Goodell to get bent, and then Woody threw trash at Goodell's head as he was leaving the room.

So for the team that cooperated it took an extra year to get a ruling and they were punished more severely.

 

[DJnVa]

Fantasy football has ruined rational discussion about skill positions players

Maclin isn't good? Because, like I said, I may have missed his point, but I was saying that's it's not like Maclin blows.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Maclin isn't good? Because, like I said, I may have missed his point, but I was saying that's it's not like Maclin blows.

Sorry. I'm agreeing with you. Maclin is a good player.

 

[moondog80]

The Chiefs made direct contact with Maclin. The Jets owner made an offhand comment in a press conference that they'd love to have Revis back. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.

 

[pappymojo]

The difference between what the Chiefs did with Maclin and what the Jets did with Revis, is that the Chiefs fully cooperated with the league and the Jets told Goodell to get bent, and then Woody threw trash at Goodell's head as he was leaving the room.

I was joking.






Woody petted Goodell's head like a puppy.

 

[Dogman]

That's precisely how I interpret the difference. Did I want the Jets punishment to be more severe? Of course but that thought wasn't realistic.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Okay, now I understand.

 

[LondonSox]

The story (unoffically) is that The Eagles ended up offering more than the Chiefs, but he declined because he already had a verbal agreement with Reid and the Chiefs well before the allowed period.
I mean that could have been when Reid was packing his bags in Philly.

I always (and obviously I'm biased) and confused if this is a case were one party was wronged, that they don't get the picks. So the Chiefs get their guy, and get punishment. The Eagles lose their guy and get nothing, despite there being an obvious easy method of repayment.

I guess typically for tampering on a free agent, many teams who were interested were hurt, but if the rumour is true then why aren't the Eagles receiving anything?

 

[Super Nomario]

The Chiefs made direct contact with Maclin. The Jets owner made an offhand comment in a press conference that they'd love to have Revis back. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.

I agree - this is apples and oranges. However, did the league do any kind of investigation of the Jets' contact with Revis? Did they take phone / email correspondence from the Jets owner or GM or Revis or his agent? How does the league decide when something is just a silly offhand comment and when it's worthy of further digging?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

So for the team that cooperated it took an extra year to get a ruling and they were punished more severely.

wrong thread

 

[pedro1918]

However, did the league do any kind of investigation of the Jets' contact with Revis? Did they take phone / email correspondence from the Jets owner or GM or Revis or his agent? How does the league decide when something is just a silly offhand comment and when it's worthy of further digging?

There was no need for an investigation. Mike Kensil vouched for the Jets.

 

[Mooch]

The timing of the announcement is the most NFL thing ever: After day one of the new league year when most of the first-day free agent signings are completed, likely as the result of illegal tampering.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Chiefs appealing.

http://deadspin.com/the-chiefs-will-fight-the-nfl-on-tampering-penalties-1764006638

 

[pappymojo]

The timing of the announcement is the most NFL thing ever: After day one of the new league year when most of the first-day free agent signings are completed, likely as the result of illegal tampering.

It sure is bizarre timing. First of all, the league allows a window before the start of free agency for legal tampering which is just, to borrow Peter King's favorite word, weird. But the Chiefs punishment was for activities that happened prior to last year's free agency period.

You would think that the league would be incentivized to issue the punishment before this years legal tampering window as a way to discourage teams from doing this type of stuff this year. By waiting until free agency started before issuing the punishment, it is as if they purposely allowed tampering to continue this year.

Is the league actively looking to punish more teams for similar offenses this year as a sort of 'gotcha!' maneuver? Or did they not want to slow down the free agency tampering since it generates so much coverage in the media?

 

[Slow Rheal]

Speculating on the league's motivation is mind numbing and almost certainly futile

 

[Section15Box113]

Speculating on the league's motivation is mind numbing and almost certainly futile

"What the league did [with this penalty] was what we do with a lot of rules and policies designed to protect the integrity of the game, and that's to create a deterrent effect,” Goodell said. “We [take picks] to prevent and make sure the clubs understand that we're watching these issues."

How's that?

 

[Leather]

Anyone who lasted through the first month of intro to psychology knows unpredictable and arbitrary punishments do not deter behavior, they just increase stress among the cohort.

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

It sure is bizarre timing. First of all, the league allows a window before the start of free agency for legal tampering which is just, to borrow Peter King's favorite word, weird. But the Chiefs punishment was for activities that happened prior to last year's free agency period.

You would think that the league would be incentivized to issue the punishment before this years legal tampering window as a way to discourage teams from doing this type of stuff this year. By waiting until free agency started before issuing the punishment, it is as if they purposely allowed tampering to continue this year.

Is the league actively looking to punish more teams for similar offenses this year as a sort of 'gotcha!' maneuver? Or did they not want to slow down the free agency tampering since it generates so much coverage in the media?

Kinda like allowing a suspected illegally deflated ball to be used for half of a playoff game before checking to see if it's actually, you know, illegal.

 

[Myt1]

Anyone who lasted through the first month of intro to psychology knows unpredictable and arbitrary punishments do not deter behavior, they just increase stress among the cohort.

Yeah, but they're super fun to impose.

 

[Leather]

Yeah, but they're super fun to impose.

 

[Section15Box113]

Anyone who lasted through the first month of intro to psychology knows unpredictable and arbitrary punishments do not deter behavior, they just increase stress among the cohort.

The quote I posted should look familiar....

 

[tims4wins]

Didn't see any mention here but the Chiefs appealed, and lost their appeal - obviously. When you appeal to the same guy who issued the original punishment it's not exactly a fair fight. For those who wanted Kraft to appeal this is what would have happened too.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

They lost, but there was a reduction in fines. Reid's went from $75k to $60 and the teams went from $250k to $200. So there's that I guess.

 

[tims4wins]

See, Roger is so reasonable!

 

[mauf]

The story (unoffically) is that The Eagles ended up offering more than the Chiefs, but he declined because he already had a verbal agreement with Reid and the Chiefs well before the allowed period.

If this is true, then the Chiefs got off easy. Which is not surprising, as the Hunt family is more well-loved among their fellow NFL owners than Bob Kraft, Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones (to name owners of three clubs who were punished harshly for dubious "violations" of league rules).

 

[Rook05]

They lost, but there was a reduction in fines. Reid's went from $75k to $60 and the teams went from $250k to $200. So there's that I guess.

For context, that's material for Andy as it nets him approximately 800 Joe's Cowboy catered dinners ($18.45 a plate) from Joe's Kansas City BBQ. We're talking ribs with a choice two additional meats, AND bread and pickles, so that pretty much takes care of the first round of the draft.

Maybe he'll let BB partake since he won't be busy that night.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

They lost, but there was a reduction in fines. Reid's went from $75k to $60 and the teams went from $250k to $200. So there's that I guess.

Of course, this demonstrates the arbitrariness of the thing even more than a full denial of the appeal would have. Why are these reductions warranted? What changed from the initial penalty to the end of the appeal justifying a change? What standards are used to assess this? Precedents for teams to look at to understand what will happen in the future (rules and penalties and impact of appealing? We have no idea.

The whole approach the NFL takes to discipline is a preposterous, baseless joke.

 

[edmunddantes]

What I don't get is why sensible businessman would want to be part of a process that is this arbitrary and can turn on you in a second? There is an insane amount of uncertainty as to how your team, probably one of your prized possessions, is going to be treated depending on which way the wind is blowing that day.

 

[Average Reds]

The day-to-day volatility and long-term litigation risk inherent in running a sport where you employ gladiators is offset by the monopoly profits reaped by the owners.

Here's another way to think of it: Think back to high school for a moment. Remember how socially unpredictable it was? Remember how people could turn on you in an instant for no reason? And remember how much pain that caused?

Now think about whether you would voluntarily go through it again if you were told that you may have to endure that kind of pain, but you would get to bang a different hot girl/guy of your choosing every weekend and be a big shot with the local community at the same time.

 

[cornwalls@6]

What I don't get is why sensible businessman would want to be part of a process that is this arbitrary and can turn on you in a second? There is an insane amount of uncertainty as to how your team, probably one of your prized possessions, is going to be treated depending on which way the wind is blowing that day.

This is thing that has exasperated me from the start of Deflategate. I honestly thought, very early on, that cooler heads would have to prevail, and that the hammer and his office would have to be reigned in, because surely the rest of the owners could not have gotten to the station of being an NFL owner, without being intelligent and forward thinking enough to see the dangers to their own investments of such arbitrary and vindictive power concentrated in the commissioner's office. Or at least enough of them could see the forrest through the trees to put a stop to this idiocy. Lesson re-affirmed I guess is not to assume that extreme wealth, whether gained through talent and hard work, or through being a lucky sperm, in any way equates to overall reason, judgement, or decency. They're as petty, self-absorbed, and impulsive as everyone else is. If there ever really were any greater good of the league, statesmen types involved, they are long gone.

 

[ALiveH]

so which teams has goodell burned bridges with so far: Pats, Saints, Chiefs, any others?

i lol'd at this comment on deadspin regarding early contact: "funny that an Andy Reid coached team would have a problem with time management."

 

[Granite Sox]

... so that pretty much takes care of the first round of the draft.

Maybe he'll let BB partake since he won't be busy that night.

They're frequent trade partners. I'd like to see BB trade the Patriots' stripped pick to Reid for the Chiefs' stripped picks, plus a side of cole slaw. Troy Vincent would probably hold a PC highlighting the unacceptable inclusion of cabbage-based compensation.

 

[mauf]

What I don't get is why sensible businessman would want to be part of a process that is this arbitrary and can turn on you in a second? There is an insane amount of uncertainty as to how your team, probably one of your prized possessions, is going to be treated depending on which way the wind is blowing that day.

I think you're bring hyperbolic. No owner has been screwed by the Commissioner's office worse than Robert Kraft, but the Patriots have still been an awfully nice investment for him.

From a sane owner's perspective, the current arrangement is preferable to being in business with the likes of Dan Snyder and Woody Johnson without a strong commissioner with the authority to rein them in.