Reportedly all of the Sox coaches were under contract through 2018, though. Maybe there's some etiquette here but I'm assuming the team has to given them the Ok to interview elsewhere.I'm guessing here, but I doubt the Sox were necessarily trying to get rid of anyone here. There's a new manager coming in and that manager has the the option. Neither the Sox nor Cora need to have made any decisions yet for both coaches to want to listen to offers. They're not going to pass up on a guaranteed job with a contending team on the maybe possibility that they'll be back with this one next year.
Dombrowski said in his press conference after announcing the Farrell change that he was not standing in the way of the coaches searching for new jobs.Reportedly all of the Sox coaches were under contract through 2018, though. Maybe there's some etiquette here but I'm assuming the team has to given them the Ok to interview elsewhere.
Well - they lead the league in offense the year before. Did Davis completely lose his coaching skills in one year?I'm being earnest here, can someone explain to me why people are lamenting the loss of Chili Davis? I'm admitting genuine ignorance, but I thought the idea is that the hitting coach should be sort of responsible for the overall offensive performance on the field. They were worse across the board and the power numbers were way down. Is there more to that job I'm not getting?
Pitching IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BF Pit Str Ctct StS StL GB FB LD Unk GSc IR IS WPA aLI RE24
Pedro Martinez W (21-4) 9 1 1 1 0 17 1 2.20 28 120 80 32 19 29 3 7 1 0 98 0.625 1.01 4.2
Team Totals 9 1 1 1 0 17 1 1.00 28 120 80 32 19 29 3 7 1 0 98 0.625 1.01 4.2
That's not the only scenario where that can happen and it could be from his direction. He could well have just not tried to totally rock the boat his first year, then overstepped on the adjustments he had them go through the next year or something. That doesn't sway me much.Well - they lead the league in offense the year before. Did Davis completely lose his coaching skills in one year?
Missed that - thanks.Dombrowski said in his press conference after announcing the Farrell change that he was not standing in the way of the coaches searching for new jobs.
Fuck him for hitting a pitch that missed its target by a foot?Fuck Chili Davis, I can go back to disliking him again
Well, that's the problem with relying on short term results as a measure of evaluating teaching effectiveness. I really haven't a clue whether he's good at his job or not. Based on results he looked great in 2016 and less so in 2017. Maybe he's really good at keeping players on a roll when they are going good - but less effective at addressing major problems when they aren't? Maybe the hitters have collectively tuned him out? Motivating guys is just as important as identifying flaws and correcting them.That's not the only scenario where that can happen and it could be from his direction. He could well have just not tried to totally rock the boat his first year, then overstepped on the adjustments he had them go through the next year or something. That doesn't sway me much.
I promise that I'm 100% ready to be swayed, though.
Oh, I agree. I'm not making the case he was bad, either. I was just puzzled by those that were really disappointed. I thought they just knew something I didn't.Well, that's the problem with relying on short term results as a measure of evaluating teaching effectiveness. I really haven't a clue whether he's good at his job or not. Based on results he looked great in 2016 and less so in 2017. Maybe he's really good at keeping players on a roll when they are going good - but less effective at addressing major problems when they aren't? Maybe the hitters have collectively tuned him out? Motivating guys is just as important as identifying flaws and correcting them.
And maybe it was just a fluke year?
Regardless .. clean slate.
I think losing Butterfield is a real loss though.
Sorry, I just assume people know history behind that game, being one of Pedro's most dominant ever, which is saying somethingFuck him for hitting a pitch that missed its target by a foot?
I have the damn game in my videos on the phone (complete with McCarver), but that was just a horribly missed location. Davis is no Gerald Williams.Sorry, I just assume people know history behind that game, being one of Pedro's most dominant ever, which is saying something
What about Xander and JBJ? They dropped from 21 to 10 and 26 to 17 respectively. That's another 20 home runs they didn't hit.The power drop is really simple and has nothing to do with Chili. They were a mediocre power team with Papi in the lineup and Mookie getting really lucky on his home run rate in 2016. Then Mookie regressed and Hanley played with a bum shoulder.
The difference between Hanley and Mookies 2016 and 2017 seasons accounts for 14 lost home runs. The difference between Papi and Moreland was another 16. Losing 30 home runs is huge, and none of those can be pinned on a hitting coach.
That's not an argument for keeping him, mind you, but the power drop was mostly a combination of luck and a change in personnel on the field.
Xander had a 49.5 expected home run percentage. So his drop is right in line with that. JBJ's was at 53.6% which would have been about 14 home runs, so that drop wasn't surprising either.What about Xander and JBJ? They dropped from 21 to 10 and 26 to 17 respectively. That's another 20 home runs they didn't hit.
HiButter was the longest tenured 3B coach since Eddie Yost. And also the fourth longest tenured of all time, if wikipedia is to be believed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox_coaches
Fenway is a tough place to cut your teeth. I wouldn't mind seeing someone who has experience at the hot corner.
We only count the outs around here.Y'all understand that Butter sending all those guys home wasn't his lack of ability to recognize that many runners were gong to be thrown out, right? That it was a ballclub decision to be aggressive on the basepaths and this was the cost of that decision.
Welcome aboardCubs rapidly becoming my second least-favorite team. These are the only two coaches I had hoped that would retain.
I always thought you were a crappy 3B coach. But I was like 9, so what do I know.
Which is fair and as someone who didn't watch a ton of games this season, I'd ask if the individual outs on the bases merit criticism or not. There's a difference between being aggressive and being reckless. I honestly can't comment on which Butterfield was as I'm working on small sample size, but I do remember seeing some replays where guys were out by a matter of yards.Y'all understand that Butter sending all those guys home wasn't his lack of ability to recognize that many runners were gong to be thrown out, right? That it was a ballclub decision to be aggressive on the basepaths and this was the cost of that decision.
If the team keeps that policy the next guy should have a similar rate of guys thrown out at home.
Yeah but you gotta admit "the walking man" was a cool nickname.I always thought you were a crappy 3B coach. But I was like 9, so what do I know.
Yeah. Nicknames were cooler in the 60s and 70s.Yeah but you gotta admit "the walking man" was a cool nickname.
Seconded. Never liked them, even when I lived in Chicago. Actively rooted against them last year too.Welcome aboard
"Big Unit" was pretty greatYeah. Nicknames were cooler in the 60s and 70s.
Which, for a team having trouble hitting home runs, is the correct strategy. I would imagine the net runs gained by taking this approach was in the black, despite how much people loved to complain about it. They didn’t have anything close to the lineups that Sveum was waving in.Y'all understand that Butter sending all those guys home wasn't his lack of ability to recognize that many runners were gong to be thrown out, right? That it was a ballclub decision to be aggressive on the basepaths and this was the cost of that
I believe Xander had a hand injury that impacted his power for much of the season as wellXander had a 49.5 expected home run percentage. So his drop is right in line with that. JBJ's was at 53.6% which would have been about 14 home runs, so that drop wasn't surprising either.
Roll on, summer gluttons! This meal is best eaten on the lawn, followed by a dip in the swimming pool, because that butter isn't going to clean itself.
Butter waves lobster home. Lobster caught dead at the plate.
Yeah, we had threads about this. You can be aggressive and smart; a lot of his sends had no chance and / or were in situations where the break-even point was low. The Red Sox had the 2nd most runners thrown out on the bases since WWII and had a more or less average number of baserunners; you don't get there just by being aggressive (yes, many of those outs were other bases).Which is fair and as someone who didn't watch a ton of games this season, I'd ask if the individual outs on the bases merit criticism or not. There's a difference between being aggressive and being reckless. I honestly can't comment on which Butterfield was as I'm working on small sample size, but I do remember seeing some replays where guys were out by a matter of yards.
THREE disregarded his signs. Three ran through his stop sign.A question that should be asked regarding base running, and probably can't be answered, is how many runners disregarded Butterfield's signs. And there are certainly instances in which a runner tries to draw the throw and get caught in a rundown to give a runner to score. Also, in cases like a runner on second and a single, the coach may be waiving the runner home and the batter gets thrown out trying to stretch because the cut-off man throws to second instead of home.
I'm not trying to weigh in on either side of the Butterfield debate but I do think there should be a rethinking in how third-base coaches are evaluated with regard to base running.The assessment of blame is not quite as cut-and-dried as some make it out to be.