In what world is Utah a 'National' program and Oregon not? They've been one of the better teams in a non-BCS conference for a while, but 'Best non-BCS' is not 'national power.' If titles and top-10 rankings are your thing, why is South Carolina, which has one one conference title, EVER, there?Wait a minute... You are saying a program that made top 5 twice with completely different rosters over the last 10 years is not a good program?
No more conveniently than I left out Utah in 2001 (35). It's a real stretch to claim that BC was a more successful program than Utah from 2001-2010.You conventiently left BC out of the additional relevant info.
2002 (29)
2008 (33)
I'm not really arguing that nor have I ever. I'm arguing that Utah is not a national program with highly sustained success. Yeah, they're a good team that has had two very good years but they're basically a top 30ish team otherwise. The point is that they're much more closer to BC than they are most other teams on that list. I used a throwaway line when looking at Utah's record over the last 10 years, which is irrelevant for some reason I still don't quite understand but I digress, and, well, certain people are unable to not get butthurt whenever you mention certain schools.No more conveniently than I left out Utah in 2001 (35). It's a real stretch to claim that BC was a more successful program than Utah from 2001-2010.
I forgot to add the Pac 12 teams to that list. I mention Oregon, USC, and Stanford earlier.In what world is Utah a 'National' program and Oregon not?
Ahem, I am a BC fan but I am also a realist. I can't drill down on all of Utahs's numbers over the past few years but if you look over on the BC thread, I have given a pretty storng statistcal argument about the state of the BC program. In a nutshell, since 2009, they are overall 19-19 including wins over Weber State, UMass and Northeastern. They are 2-10 in games against Va Tech, Clemson, FSU and Notre Dame, all national programs. They have only 8 wins in three years against FBS schools with 4 wins or more in a season, and of that, only 4 wins against schools with winning records. They are 2-16 in games when trailing at halftime. They have not beaten a ranked opponent, won a bowl game or been ranked themselves. Pretty crappy if you ask me. Yet they have produced a BUtkus/Lombardi winner and a another LB who was the ACC Defensive player of the year and would have been a first round draft pick but for a horrible disease. They had the #112 ranked offense, and the #44 ranked defense. BC plays in the ACC.Ironically, these 2 schools were scheduled to play each other in the Fiesta Bowl in 2004 had BC not choked a home game against a terrible Syracuse team. This argument could have been settled on the field.
Id agree if Tric was only talking about the current times. However from his list, it doesnt look like he is. Notre Dame hasnt been relevant since the early mid 90s. Same with a lot of the non-OSU B10 programs on his list. If youre looking at just the very modern window - theres no doubt - Utah is in considerably better shape and is a much stronger program.Ahem, I am a BC fan but I am also a realist. I can't drill down on all of Utahs's numbers over the past few years but if you look over on the BC thread, I have given a pretty storng statistcal argument about the state of the BC program. In a nutshell, since 2009, they are overall 19-19 including wins over Weber State, UMass and Northeastern. They are 2-10 in games against Va Tech, Clemson, FSU and Notre Dame, all national programs. They have only 8 wins in three years against FBS schools with 4 wins or more in a season, and of that, only 4 wins against schools with winning records. They are 2-16 in games when trailing at halftime. They have not beaten a ranked opponent, won a bowl game or been ranked themselves. Pretty crappy if you ask me. Yet they have produced a BUtkus/Lombardi winner and a another LB who was the ACC Defensive player of the year and would have been a first round draft pick but for a horrible disease. They had the #112 ranked offense, and the #44 ranked defense. BC plays in the ACC.
Utah HAS been ranked nationally since 2009, has an overall record of 27-11 with only 1 FCS opponent in that span (Montana State who is in the FCS playoffs). They were ranked #18 in defense and #78 in offense and will be in their third bowl game against Ga Tech in the Sun Bowl. Utah plays in the Pac 12.
IDK but I would say that at least at this time, Utah is the better program and a more "national" power, whatever the hell that means.
Not a chanceNavy enters the Big East in Football only starting in 2015.
http://www.boston.co...ll_Sports_links
Is thie even a legit BCS conference when you actually see it on paper???
I guess in the current college football climate, Army would have no choice but to join if offered, but folks around West Point swore for years that they'd never join a conference again after their failed experiment with Conference USA. The feeling was that the academic differences between West Point and the Memphis, Houston, Southern Miss etc. was so drastic that Army couldn't recruit on the same level as them. They also felt that the Conference USA wasn't particularly intriguing to recruits, and that they were better off when they could pick and choose teams as an Independent. The AD who pushed the move to Conference USA was run out of town and is still credited for the fall that Army's football program has seen. Like I said, I guess they have to follow Navy if offered, but there will be a lot of people there that aren't happy about it, and I have a lot of trouble seeing them being competitive in that league.Navy enters the Big East in Football only starting in 2015.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/01/24/navy_to_board_big_east_football_in_2015/?p1=Well_Sports_links
Look for Pitt and Syracuse to now buy out their deals with the BE just as WVU has and enter the ACC next year. Asuming they do, the BE, if they bring everyone on board in the next 12-18 months (which is likely at this point) would look like this for football:
East Division
Navy
UConn
UCF
USF
Rutgers
Cincy
West Division
Louisville
SMU
Houston
San Diego State
Boise State
Look for them to now add Army in the East and move Cincy to the West to get to 12 teams or add another western team from the MWC or WAC to fill it out. It sure looks a lot different from when I was a student at the 'Cuse and went to the basketball tournament at MSG in the early '80s. Is thie even a legit BCS conference when you actually see it on paper???
Notre Dame is only relevant because you can't have a college football conversation without someone going on and on about how Notre Dame is not relevant. Everyone pays attention to them just celebrate when the inevitably fall.Id agree if Tric was only talking about the current times. However from his list, it doesnt look like he is. Notre Dame hasnt been relevant since the early mid 90s. Same with a lot of the non-OSU B10 programs on his list. If youre looking at just the very modern window - theres no doubt - Utah is in considerably better shape and is a much stronger program.
Losing Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU for Houston, Boise State, Navy, San Diego State, UCF and SMU makes the BE less of a BCS conference than it was before? I'd say that they've only improved.Navy enters the Big East in Football only starting in 2015.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/01/24/navy_to_board_big_east_football_in_2015/?p1=Well_Sports_links
Look for Pitt and Syracuse to now buy out their deals with the BE just as WVU has and enter the ACC next year. Asuming they do, the BE, if they bring everyone on board in the next 12-18 months (which is likely at this point) would look like this for football:
East Division
Navy
UConn
UCF
USF
Rutgers
Cincy
West Division
Louisville
SMU
Houston
San Diego State
Boise State
Look for them to now add Army in the East and move Cincy to the West to get to 12 teams or add another western team from the MWC or WAC to fill it out. It sure looks a lot different from when I was a student at the 'Cuse and went to the basketball tournament at MSG in the early '80s. Is thie even a legit BCS conference when you actually see it on paper???
Infield: They now have 12 teams with Memphis. Take your divisions as outlined above and move Louisville to the West and add Memphis there. The West division will now be SD State, Boise, SMU, Houston, Louisville, Memphis..... The East will be UConn, USF, Rutgers, UCF, Navy and Cincinnati. That's the Big East football conference. Add the non football schools and you have a great college basketball conference but no way is this a BCS football conference. Combine the MWC and WAC and what's left of C-USA and that hodge podge is as ggod as this in football....and no one is talking about that combination as a BCS conference.They still need at least one more team though. It would be even smarter for scheduling if they had seven teams, so each team would only have two inter-division games, necessitating only one cross-country trip (and hosting a cross-country game as well to even things out). They should revisit BYU and Air Force and just give them whatever they want to get them to come along as football-only. BYU is already in WCC for basketball and WCC would probably take Air Force too.
East
USF
UCF
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
Cincinatti
Navy
Not great, but the best of a shit situation
My reasoning for saying 14 would be better is the way this is playing out, each team will have three interdivisional games, meaning half the teams would have two cross-country flights, and half the teams would have one. That's pretty unfair. With 14 teams, each team would only have two interdivisional games, meaning everyone would have one cross-country flight. Saves money on travel. Also, SEC and ACC will have 14 so it's not exactly unprecedented anymore. And Louisville cannot be happy with flying to San Diego or Boise every year.Infield: They now have 12 teams with Memphis. Take your divisions as outlined above and move Louisville to the West and add Memphis there. The West division will now be SD State, Boise, SMU, Houston, Louisville, Memphis..... The East will be UConn, USF, Rutgers, UCF, Navy and Cincinnati. That's the Big East football conference. Add the non football schools and you have a great college basketball conference but no way is this a BCS football conference. Combine the MWC and WAC and what's left of C-USA and that hodge podge is as ggod as this in football....and no one is talking about that combination as a BCS conference.
Look for the conference to play 8 league games, 5 in your own division with one designated cross division "rival" (say UConn-Louisville for the hoops side of the house and/or Navy-San Diego State since SD is a huge Navy town) along with 2 round robin home/home games against the rest of the other dvision (i.e. UConn-Boise/ UConn-Houston home/home followed by home/ homes with SMU and SD State) and look for the league championship game most likely to be played at the Citrus Bowl in Orlando. With 4 non conferene games, a UConn can play UMass and still schedule the Iowa States, Vandy's Michigans, etc. and build out a competitive schedule and Navy can play ND and the other service academies.
Tulsa, really? It's a respectable metropolitan area, but still smaller than alternatives like Memphis and Tulane. Television markets don't matter as much when it is the third most popular team in town. Tulsa also has the smallest enrollment in all of FBS and football fans without any connection to the university are more likely to support the Sooners and Cowboys.I still can't understand why we don't hear anything about Tulsa being a prospective target for the Big East. Strong academics, solid and consistently competitive teams in both basketball & football with lots of tradition (plus a strong soccer program), and an SMSA of almost a million people that ranks 54th in the nation and grew by nearly 10% over the past decade. Putting them in the west would help balance the divisions and also retain the established intra-divisional C-USA rivalries with Houston & SMU, including the Methodists vs Presbyterians "Holy War" with the Mustangs.
The presidents of 16 universities in what are now Conference USA and the Mountain West Conference announced Monday that they plan to create one league that would span 6,000 miles, include as many as two dozen sports programs, and be "built upon the principles of operating at the highest level of integrity and sportsmanship," they said.
Hawai'i joined in football only.I'm sure the softball teams will enjoy the Hawaii-West Virginia flight.
"With the exception of Hawai'i as a football-only member, the participation would involve all sports"I'm sure the softball teams will enjoy the Hawaii-West Virginia flight.
I think this is a smart move and I'm surprised they hadn't done it earlier. Decent football lately, and always solid basketball.DALLAS – Temple is close to joining the Big East as an all-sports member in 2012, college football industry sources told CBSSports.com Wednesday morning.
The addition of Temple is imperative for the Big East, which desperately needs a school to replace West Virginia this fall after the Mountaineers reached a $20 million agreement with the league to leave for the Big 12.
One source told CBSSports.com that Temple to the Big East in 2012 "is done."
An announcement could be made as early as next week, sources told CBSSports.com.
MAC commissioner Jon Steinbrecher, attending the BCS meetings at the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport Grand Hyatt Hotel, told CBSSports.com that discussions are ongoing between Temple and the Big East.
"I don't know where those will lead," Steinbrecher said.
Big East commissioner John Marinatto, also at the BCS meetings, declined comment Wednesday.
Wither the A10, poor URI. This leaves Xavier is a weird spot, they are likely going to just have to ride it out in the A10 hoping for a Big East collaspe and the formation of a catholic/non-football basketball league.http://brett-mcmurph...532522/34946571
I think this is a smart move and I'm surprised they hadn't done it earlier. Decent football lately, and always solid basketball.
Not doing it earlier will likely cost the conference at least $2.5m extra. Great going guys!
If I'm Syracuse (and I kind of am), I'm elated with that setup. In basketball, they have the three best non-SU programs in the other division (UNC, Duke, Pitt). And in football, I know SU has to contend with Clemson and Florida State, but I think that Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, and Miami constitute a much tougher division.or this?
Under the announced setup, Syracuse gets to play former rivals Miami and VaTech once each every three years.
I'm sure in football, VT, Maryland, and UVA are fighting hard to stop that alignment from happeneing. Those schools want more games in the Carolina's, Georgia and Florida where the recruits are. If they are forced to travel north for most of their games, thats going to be bad for recruiting.In other news, the ACC says Syracuse is joining the Atlantic division, and Pitt is joining the Coastal division. They will be cross-division rivals playing yearly in football, but they'll never contest for a division title. Quick, name their new divisional rivals? So once again, given the chance to put rival teams in the same division, the ACC doesn't, just like they did with the tobacco road schools. Their divisional setup is a classic case of over-thinking.
Wouldn't putting all the former Big East schools in one division make more sense?
What makes more sense:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Maryland
Coastal: UNC, NC St, Duke, Wake Forest, FSU, GTech, Clemson
or this?
Under the announced setup, Syracuse gets to play former rivals Miami and VaTech once each every three years.
For the 'Cuse, its BC; for Pitt, its Va Tech. I think the reason it went this way is because BC had a lot of say in how this shook out with the old BE teams coming into the conference. It was down to UConn or Pitt coming in and BC didn't want either but told Swofford and Company if they had to let one of them in, let it be Pitt and put them in the Coastal. That way BC only has to play them once every 3 years, they are not a direct recruiting threat and they are the lesser of two evils as between them and UConn.In other news, the ACC says Syracuse is joining the Atlantic division, and Pitt is joining the Coastal division. They will be cross-division rivals playing yearly in football, but they'll never contest for a division title. Quick, name their new divisional rivals?
It's just for football. In basketball, each school goes through a 3-year with other schools, playing home-and-home, home only, and away only in the 3 years except for one "primary partner" who they play home-and-home every year. Syracuse plays BC as their primary; Pitt gets Maryland. Duke/UNC (duh), Clemson/GaTech, FSU/Miami, NC State/Wake, and Virginia/VA Tech are the other pairs.If I'm Syracuse (and I kind of am), I'm elated with that setup. In basketball, they have the three best non-SU programs in the other division (UNC, Duke, Pitt). And in football, I know SU has to contend with Clemson and Florida State, but I think that Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, and Miami constitute a much tougher division.
Maybe that divisional setup is just for football, though, and the basketball aspect doesn't come into play. Either way, it's a win for SU.
SC and TAMU presidents both say they are likely cross-division rivalsSouth Carolina probably wouldn't mind playing TAMU for the recruiting, either. It's a bigger factor for Missouri, of course, but I suspect that South Carolina wouldn't be completely neutral on the subject.
Nearly a decade after Temple's moribund football program was pushed out of the Big East, the revitalized Owls are rejoining the conference -- and bringing along their potent men's basketball team.
The school will move to the Big East for football next season and all other sports in 2013.
Just catching up on this thread...what are they thinking about? So BC gets to play Wake Forest and NC State every year...and Miami once every three years? Ugh.In other news, the ACC says Syracuse is joining the Atlantic division, and Pitt is joining the Coastal division. They will be cross-division rivals playing yearly in football, but they'll never contest for a division title. Quick, name their new divisional rivals? So once again, given the chance to put rival teams in the same division, the ACC doesn't, just like they did with the tobacco road schools. Their divisional setup is a classic case of over-thinking.
Wouldn't putting all the former Big East schools in one division make more sense?
What makes more sense:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Maryland
Coastal: UNC, NC St, Duke, Wake Forest, FSU, GTech, Clemson
or this?
Under the announced setup, Syracuse gets to play former rivals Miami and VaTech once each every three years.
St. Louis (and Dayton) wasn't far enough away from the Atlantic, they are thinking about Omaha?CBS reporting VCU, George Mason, Butler and potentially Creighton are negotiating with the Atlantic-10.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18045227/vcu-george-mason-butler-in-discussions-to-join-atlantic-10
The sun belt might be their easiest entry into FBS football. I think the northern schools in the CAA that play football will break off with other FCS schools to form another conference. URI is going to the NEC which means reducing scholarships.basketball-only schools to the A-10 and football schools to the CAA makes sense.
Whither UNH and Maine football, to the NorCon with URI? The closest CAA school is what, Delaware?
edit- Charlotte discussing a move to the SunBelt is also interesting. Thought they would have higher sites than that. MAC?
The Butler move was in the news a week ago, and reportedly it's a done deal.CBS reporting VCU, George Mason, Butler and potentially Creighton are negotiating with the Atlantic-10.
http://www.cbssports...oin-atlantic-10
From what I've heard from the Butler athletic department, the first round of Butler to A10 rumors were coming from Dayton and Xavier, which is why that ESPN guy in Dayton 'broke' it.The Butler move was in the news a week ago, and reportedly it's a done deal.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18623903/conference-usa-mountain-west-merger-unlikelyA proposed merger between the Mountain West and Conference USA “probably will not happen,” college football industry sources told CBSSports.com.
The leagues had hoped to dissolve and form a new league or merge into one league for the 2013-14 season, but that is now “unlikely” at least for the immediate future, sources said. Even though the leagues would remain separate, they are still working together to figure out a way to share television, marketing and scheduling resources.
“There is not much talk about a formal merger of the conferences into one conference entity in the near term, but that is still a future consideration,” a source said.
In February, the two leagues initially announced they would dissolve and form a new league for the 2013-14 season. A month later, sources told CBSSports.com the leagues were no longer considering dissolving, but instead would either merge or remain separate but share resources.
There's a poster on a URI message board that says his son is friendly with the son of a URI football coach. The poster says this coach has told him that Maine has already applied for NEC membership. I haven't seen even a whisper of this on anygivensaturday.com or anywhere else, so I'm still pretty skeptical. I always thought Maine would stick in the CAA with UNH as long as possible.Whither UNH and Maine football, to the NorCon with URI? The closest CAA school is what, Delaware?
* Georgia St reportedly stepping up to FBS, leaving the CAA for the Sun BeltA-10 commish Bernadette McGlade and CAA commish Tom Yeager deny report GMU and VCU are heading to A-10.
Then there's this interesting scenario...With CUSA as the most desired conference for the school, but an invitation there not coming, the Sun Belt is the best option, providing a geographically sound home for the Georgia St. athletic programs. Due to an NCAA rule requiring schools upgrading from FCS to FBS to have a formal invitation before upgrading, the Sun Belt has fulfilled that necessary requirement for Georgia St.
The Georgia St. departure from the CAA adds to a continuing trend. UMass left to join the MAC, URI to the NEC, and Hofstra and Northeastern have dropped football.
If that happens, Maine & UNH To the NEC would seem a fait accomplit.Current CAA football members Old Dominion, JMU and Delaware continue to be considered the most likely CAA football schools to upgrade to FBS. However, unless the MAC opts to expand to 16 and invite all 3, these 3 schools will not likely have an FBS conference home in the near future.
* More fuel on the "Appalachian State to FBS" fireWhen the CAA shelved their exit fee vote last week, it was apparent that some of the schools expected to give “yes” votes had potentially changed their minds. The vote was to raise the $250,000 fee to $1.2 million.
The Georgia St. departure from the CAA has forced the CAA to put an all-sports member sponsoring football at the top of the priority list as the conference needs 6 all-sports members to sponsor football in order to retain sponsorship. Stony Brook is considered the most likely candidate, assuming that Appalachian St. rejects any CAA invitations. If there is any pressure to add a southern based school, Coastal Carolina is the likely option.
With the departures of GMU and VCU, it could mean that the CAA tries to assist some of it’s members by adding travel partners. Boston University is a likely candidate to replace GMU/VCU as they would enable member schools to schedule 2 Boston games when having to travel north to play Northeastern. Charleston is another school on the wishlist, but they have twice rejected CAA overtures. Davidson is considered another option for the final spot once a football school is added. In total the CAA will look to add 3 schools.
A report out of Winston-Salem is citing sources who claim that the Appalachian St. committee voted on Monday to recommend to ASU Chancellor Ken Peacock, that the school upgrade to FBS football.
It appears that Appalachian St. does not want to risk being left behind. Even with the hypothetical risk of the top BCS schools leaving the NCAA, such a move would send FCS football down another rung.
The issue Appalachian St. would face with an upgrade would be an NCAA rule requiring that an existing FBS conference must extend an invitation to an upgrade candidate in order for that school to transition to FBS.
CUSA would be the top option. If rejected, which at this time is very likely, Appalachian St. would likely approach the Sun Belt. Geographically, the Sun Belt would be a good fit.