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Dan Shaughnessy: Taking a dump in your mouth one column at a time

Discussion in 'Our Errors are Mistakes: The Media Forum' started by weeba, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    I have no doubt at all that he's trashed White players as well. But, the type of criticism aimed at minorities has always been really disgusting.

    For instance, regardless of what one thinks about Everett, his production, his sanity, etc., a "sportswriter" attacking and mocking him based on religious beliefs was completely unacceptable. I know that's probably not a popular view - especially given Everett's particular thoughts on things. But it really had no place at all in a newspaper, and certainly not as a nickname.
     
  2. geoflin

    geoflin Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm certainly not a dope but it seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to discuss things that have occurred more recently than 17 years ago.
     
  3. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I thought you were playing the race card with Everett. I do know you could get away with saying a lot more back then than you can now. Case in point, Everett responded by telling Edes to go home and take his curly haired boyfriend with him. It's kinda funny that SoSH still uses the CHB moniker given how progressive the site is. I'm guilty of using it myself.

    That doesn't excuse anything Dan has said but it was a different era. During that same era, John Dennis only got suspended 2 days for his Metco gorilla comments.
     
  4. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    I mean, the Ortiz stuff was more recent than 17 years ago.

    The point is that he has been going on with this stuff for so many years that - to link back into my original comment - it's disturbing that he's been allowed to continue with it, and that people still click and read on anything by him.

    Well, both - and just in general his ways of bringing attacks, biases, and prejudice into "sportswriting" - it really has no place at all, and taints any institution that he comes into contact with by association. All of this should have been ended long ago.
     
  5. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    I guess one could make a list of Shaughnessy favorite targets over the years and see if it includes an abnormal number of minorities.

    He certainly has his prejudices
    I've graduated to "Shank". No anti-violence folks have attacked me for that one, yet.
     
  6. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    I'm old enough to remember when the problematic nature of CHB's treatment of Pedro, Manny, and Ortiz as lazy, entitled, diva bums when he was largely mum on their teammates was settled sosh law.

    It is hard to reconstruct 10, 15 years later but it certainly felt quite a bit like a guy playing on old stereotypes to "do what he's paid to do" or whatever.

    That's the thing. He's just a provocateur; there's rarely, if ever, anything there that makes you stop and think amidst the attention-grabbing.
     
  7. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Is he racist or is it just a coincidence that 3 of the biggest names over the last 20 years happen to be Dominican? What were his opinions on John Lackey, Josh Beckett and Jon Lester? JD Drew? If he doesn't really have any, that would be pretty damning.
     
  8. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    Thank you.

    This is what I was getting at with the "I thought everyone knew this" and comments along those lines. I wasn't trying to be evasive/vague or such - I just thought it was something that was more well-known than it seems to be now. Which is disappointing.


    Not just the number either, but the types and languages of the "criticisms"/"attacks."

    I mean, Offerman and Everett were far from "big names."
     
  9. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    I have no idea, nor do I care, if Dan Shaughnessy is a racist. But, he played deeply on gross stereotypes to force through the idea that arguably the three best, most entertaining, most successful stars the Sox had in the 00s were lazy, entitled assholes. That was a tool in his toolbox, and I don't recall there being much doubt about it here at the time (this doesn't prove anything, but this place is more attentive than most at minimum).

    That he is generally an asshole and that he has also picked on a white guy here and there does not preclude those things being true.
     
  10. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Everett definitely was because of his antics. He was dumped for Darren Oliver as a last ditch attempt by Duquette to keep his job. Everyone hated Carl Everett and wanted him gone. He was considered toxic. He may as well been the anti christ.
     
  11. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not going to follow this argument too far down the rabbit hole, but criticism as a response being justified does not excuse the manner in which it is articulated. You can step over the line where this is concerned in criticizing someone who largely has criticism coming. This is how he works.
     
  12. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    My only point with that is Carl Everett was indeed a big name. If I made any other point, I didn't mean to.
     
  13. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    Ok, I see what you mean now--absolutely he was, I agree. My bad, you were pretty clear.
     
  14. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    Agreed. I can't read minds, I don't know what he thinks about before he falls asleep at night. But the fact remains he's done these horrible things, and yet continues to be allowed to continue it years later.

    In part due to Shaughnessy's work against him.
    Nonetheless, even taking him as one of the "big names," the general point is still the same.
     
  15. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Carl Everett came in with a bit of a reputation. He had bounced around 3 teams before Houston traded him to Boston for a prospect. He regularly violated team rules and clashed with the coaching staff. He got into a near fight with an umpire which earned him a 10 day suspension in the middle of a pennant race. Even his teammates were glad to see him go. His problems here had little to do with Shaughnessy, and his problems continued after he left, getting into a shouting match with Mike Hargrove in Seattle.

    Carl Everett also mentioned he would "set straight" any gay teammates. He was more recently arrested for putting a gun to his wife's head (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Everett).

    Not sure if Shaughnessy is a racist or simply a miserable jerk. But Carl Everett is not the best example to use as evidence.
     
  16. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    Do you wanna maybe mull this over a bit more? Is it possible to be racist to Carl Everett? Even considering his baggage?

    I addressed this four posts above yours. This is how he works, and yours was always the response he'd rely on getting.

    It beggars belief that someone who plucks at low-hanging fruit for a living would not, when speaking to the Boston sports fan, dip into racist stereotypes and invective to get their attention.

    Did it seem like the people discussing this didn't know Carl Everett's backstory, just as an aside?
     
  17. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Yes. But Shank's criticism of him is not by itself evidence of racism.

    What racist stereotype was used when discussing Carl Everett? FWIW (which is not much), I'm not arguing that Shank is not racist. He certainly used racist stereotypes that you described when criticizing Pedro, Papi, and Manny. I'm just curious what stereotype he used when discussing Everett.

    It did seem like the poster that started this thread was a bit unaware, especially when he implied the Shaughnessy's criticism was part of what drove him out of Boston, which I'll argue is incorrect.
     
  18. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    So I just decided to go through a few Shank columns over the years about Lackey and Beckett and he comes across as a huge fan boy. That doesn't really mean anything but it also kinda does. How can you criticize Pedro and not Lackey or Beckett?
     
  19. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    Not sure anyone said it was, but this is certainly true. I'm sort of stating the flip side of the coin--who cares if he's racist, but he put those tools in his toolbox and used them often. He'd do it by amplifying some thing (Carl Everett being a dickhead) that seemed "bad" on first blush.

    I have no idea, but your post described his background and then concluded that he wasn't a good example as a result. That's what I was responding to.

    I think we're all splintering off to chasing our own niche of this conversation; I just saw incredulity at Earthbound's characterization of Shag's work and felt it was worth mentioning that in the Pedro/ Manny/ Ortiz era, it could often be egregious.

    I think letting go of whether he's "racist" or not is important here, too--we won't ever have any idea, and I think that's how he operates; he knows his audience and will lazily inhabit whatever iteration of dog-whistle ugliness he can to rile everyone up.
     
  20. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    He used to kill Pedro. Pedro was never Pedro, he was the "Dominican Diva."

    Imagine having that guy playing in your town and feeling comfortable criticizing him with unending regularity?
     
  21. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Did you skip all the ones about chicken and beer? Shank absolutely killed those guys over that.
     
  22. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I didn't read that many. The few I did were praising Lackey, and one was from 2014 after he was traded away... which probably has more to do with Lackey being traded and trolling Sox fans than it does with him liking Lackey now that I think about it.
     
  23. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    Why did he have (and still has) such a hard on for Adrian Gonzalez? Nothing about the guy used to piss me off except for perhaps he wasn't as good as Theo felt he was. Wasn't his fault and to try and pin 2011 on him (or just about any other Sox non-pitcher) was ridiculous.
     
  24. The Gray Eagle

    The Gray Eagle Member SoSH Member

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    Well to be fair, from day one he's always portrayed Dustin Pedroia as a lazy and entitled diva too. LOL.

    Which white guy was it who he called "a piece of shit" when the Red Sox signed him? Millar, Mueller, Kapler, Jeremy Giambi? Oh right, that was Ortiz.

    It's beyond amazing to me that anyone still reads this troll, who has been doing the same exact act for decades. I guess some people must enjoy being trolled.
     
  25. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    I'm glad you and @JohntheBaptist came along to echo what I had said, because for a bit there I was starting to worry that I had slipped into an alternate reality or something.

    Seriously, I don't know how we ended up in a reality where the vile stuff that he's put down - in print, for people to see and record and remember and reference - hasn't resulted in him being completely removed from any sort of media which considers themselves in any way legitimate. Much less for people to actually click on or read it (and make no mistake, no matter the reason, if one is clicking on it or reading it, he had accomplished what he set out to do, and the people who employ him will continue to do so).
     
  26. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Because he hasn't been, and won't be.

    To be clear one last time the issue wasn't defending Shank - literally no one here does that.

    It was the weird whispery "I don't know if I can say something so vile" approach you took, as if you had some sort of awful unknown gossip. His print record is known and has been discussed and legislated in this thread plenty.

    You're not bringing up anything that anyone didn't know, and you're not really arguing against anyone. The vaguebooking was very weird.
     
  27. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    I thought we cleared that up, but alright - the writing and public speaking of Dan Shaughnessy is significantly tainted by racism, and personal attacks on the basis of religious belief, likely among other issues.

    I thought this was fairly well-known, which is why I didn't specifically state it in my initial post. The points have been brought up and discussed. I just personally don't feel that proper measures have been taken as a result of it. Hence the reason for my initial post.
     
  28. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Call the Globe and complain
    Picket outside his office
    Write letters to the editor
    Write your own columns and be better than him
    Swear blood vengeance against his family

    I'm not sure what measures you think need to be taken.
     
  29. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    I've suggested some in some of my previous posts.

    And to go along with that, I'm discussing him in a thread about him on a message board.
     
  30. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    I could be wrong, but I don't think that Dan Shaughnessy is a racist. Dan Shaughnessy might be a prick, but that doesn't make him a racist. When Shank is motivated, I think that he can be one of the best writers that Boston ever produced. He has a love of Boston sports history, he is reverential towards the past (almost too much, TBH -- he really tends to over glorify players that played when he was a boy; though I don't think he's alone in being guilty of that) and he has a really, really hard time relating to any cultural touchstones prior to 1971 (I mean, how many times is he going to lead off a story with "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss").

    That being said, Shaughnessy takes aim at the biggest targets on the four major teams. Whether it's Pedro or Clemens or Beckett or Manny or Belichick or Ortiz or Brady or Boggs or Lackey or Gonzalez or Edelman or Moss, for all of his faults (and he has a ton) I think Shaughnessy has been pretty color-blind in his prickishness. In other words, he's a shithead to everyone. He comes from the Dave Egan school of sportswriting where you go for the biggest fish in the pond. Egan had Ted Williams, Shaughnessy has everyone else; which is ironic because Shaughnessy worships Ted Williams (and Red Auerbach) but never seemed to learn that athletes don't like that sort of relationship.

    Dan Duquette said that Jose Offerman was signed to replace Mo Vaughn's OBP; which was fine. But Jose Offerman was not going to replace Mo's leadership or run production. By signing him to a stupid contract and making that proclamation, Duquette put a target on Offerman's back. That is what Shaughnessy criticized, not Offerman himself; but the notion that Offerman could replace Vaughn.

    And the thing was, Shaughnessy would go after Vaughn while he with the Sox. All the time, whether it was warranted or not. Shank usually gets rose colored glasses when a guy leaves the city; especially if he was a producer and his replacement hasn't done anything.

    As for Everett, I was as big of an Everett apologist as anyone (the first half of his first season here, he was really good and he was supposedly very nice to the rookies) but he wasn't a good guy; or at least he doesn't seem like he was. He was wayyyyy too combustable for Boston (or Philly or NY or most MLB cities) and when things went south, the Sox were stuck holding on to him. He had a real checkered career with the Sox -- I don't think that I'd call Shaughnessy a racist simply because he went after Carl Everett.

    To me, the biggest sin that Dan Shaughnessy has committed as that he never lives up to his potential. Every so often you'll get a column that's well written, has a lot of really great insight and turns of phrases. But the next day, you're stuck with his warmed up tripe. Dan Shaughnessy is probably a better writer than Bob Ryan and maybe Peter Gammons; but those two are much better at the day-to-day craft of sportswriting. And it's probably because they're still fans of the games they cover -- hell, Bob Ryan may be the greatest sports fan who ever lived. Shaughnessy doesn't have that love, or at least it isn't evident in his columns.

    And that's what sucks most about Dan Shaughnessy.
     
  31. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Not that I don’t agree Everett was a hot head (and a disappointing pos, as it turned out) but ‘was traded for a prospect’ is a bit misleading. The Astros traded him for the Sox #3 prospect who turned out to be their starting SS for eight years and ended up having a pretty nice career for himself. The Astros also had a pretty stacked OF at the time with Hidalgo, Alou and Berkman having just come up. I’m all for bashing the guy (and Shank) but I’m unaware of him having a reputation before Duquette traded for him and never thought it was a ‘dump’ by Houston. I’m completely off target now, but damn he blossomed as a player that first season when he got here; good defensive CF with power from both sides? Yes please.
     
  32. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    There were definitely issues with Carl Everett and the Marlins/Mets. He was a headache way before he got to Boston.

    https://www.si.com/vault/2000/06/19...everett-speaks-loudly-and-carries-a-big-stick
     
  33. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    None of that stuff precludes someone from being racist, though. Someone can be the best, most productive, etc. person in the world and still be racist.

    Also as was touched on up-thread, I'm not necessarily claiming that Dan Shaugnessy is racist - maybe he's not. But, much of his writing and choices have been. And that's not solely about who he chooses to go after - but how he chooses to go after them. It's possible to mainly go after White people and treat them horribly and unfairly, but to use racist methods when going after non-White people.
     
  34. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    None of it means he is racist either.

    Other than “calling players entitled and lazy” (whatever that means), what evidence is there of Shank “going after” people in a racist way?

    JMOH just wrote an epic post on this subject – with detail and history. You are posting in generalities while expecting everyone to just accept that Shaughnessy is a clear cut racist (and also goes after people on religious grounds?).

    Personally I think he played with fire with the “Everybody who’s been caught using steroids is Dominican” charge with Papi but as Arod’s own admission showed, guys *did* go back to the DR for them. It was a fair line of inquiry made in an insensitive and perhaps overly provocative way.

    Pedro was the Big Fish as JMOH cited – and I think we probably do tend to gloss over some of his diva-ish behavior looking back.

    Manny was an autistic genius as a hitter but his work ethic didn’t exactly translate to the work he put in on his fielding or base running. Plus, he was def. a selfish asshole in a lot of ways – and turned out to be a wife beater and a cheater, even if I still love him in a lot of ways.

    It’s worth noting that Shaughnessy has frequently gone after the Krafts and the Red Sox ownership group – the latter almost certainly on the grounds that they are PR conscious out-of-towners. As for the former, he thinks they’re sanctimonious – he’s not exactly wrong about that but he beats it into the ground. What he seems to miss is that both groups are among the best in professional sports. But this isn’t entirely indefensible – it’s a continuation of Boston media going after sports ownership which had historically been terrible and, ironically, racist. At this point, it’s a little unnecessary tho.

    Do you have any clear-cut examples of “vile-ness”?

    Edit: I do not know my formers and latters
     
    #1684 Van Everyman, Oct 13, 2018 at 8:12 PM
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018 at 8:24 PM
  35. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Do you have your former and latter mixed up there, or should I stop drinking for the night?
     
  36. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Even if I didn’t, there is never a good reason to stop drinking for the night.
     
  37. RIFan

    RIFan Member SoSH Member

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    He got the nickname Shank from his time covering the Celtics. He notably went after Bird and wrote an article saying Bird injured his hand in a bar fight.

    If you're the biggest name in town and give him the slightest reason to go after you he'll do it to stir the pot.
     
  38. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Please don’t use the racist label to marginalize him. Particularly in a media market that had and still has media racists. It’s unfair and unnecessary.

    His sad legacy will be punching below his talent level.
     
  39. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Thank you, because this anemic offensive showing is screwing up my pace.
     
  40. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    I'm comfortable conceding the racist label though he's indisputably gone lazy in using racist commentary to do what he does, many times over.

    I will never understand how every criticism of this guy comes with the caveat that he's really talented. To each their own, I guess.

    He has. He absolutely goes after everyone, no matter who they are.

    Though if I came up with a list of white guys Gerry Callahan has ripped, does that mean he's cool, too?

    I don't care if he's a racist or not. He has absolutely used racist stereotypes as part of the mosaic of his awful track record, though. Earthbound and I are saying slightly different things, sure, but I'm not finding a list of white guys that have gotten ripped by him super convincing. But, we are ultimately saying the same thing--he's a miserable asshole.
     
    #1690 JohntheBaptist, Oct 14, 2018 at 12:18 AM
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018 at 12:40 AM
  41. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    I really hope that you're not equating Dan Shaughnessy with Gerry Callahan, because that's completely and totally false.

    And I think that I need you to explain your second paragraph a bit more, because on one hand you're oscillating back-and-forth from calling him a racist. Either he is or he isn't. I think that being a racist is a lot like being pregnant in that you can't be a little pregnant. Like if you just don't like Icelanders, but everyone else is cool; then you're a racist.

    Personally, I don't think that Shaughnessy is a racist. I think that he's an asshole and I think that he has carved out a niche for himself as being the premiere bitter asshole in a region full of bitter assholes, but I don't think that makes him a racist.

    And I know that this isn't you, JtB, but if Earthbound wants to blow all of our minds with evidence that Shaughnessy is more than a supreme prick, he's going to have to do better than a 12 year old post from Bruce Allen. Because Allen might be one of the most sensitive, hysterical yahoo in town when it comes to the media. No matter what, every reporter is either part of a super secret cabal that has an agenda to bring down a member of the local teams. Sometimes he falls back on the tried and true, "Reporter X is a moron and I'll use 1,276 examples of why" bludgeoning and washed out "facts" as to why. Bruce Allen's tin foil hat wears a tin foil hat just to be safe.

    DCMissle has bingo here. Dan Shaughnessy only continues his schtick because it's what's made him. In the late 80s throughout the 90s, Shank fashioned a cottage industry of the bitter, Calvinist Boston sports fans. Since the Pats' first (of five) Super Bowl win through the Sox incredibly amazing 2004 run (not to mention 07 and 13) through the Celts' and B's recent winning ways, that cottage has burnt to the fucking ground and that ground has been visited by the Morton's girl every other weekend. Not many people feel this way about Boston sports any more and those that do are routinely and rightly mocked. Shaughnessy bet his entire career that Boston was going to suck forever. It hasn't worked out for him very well.

    So what's he left with? He's not as plugged in as his hero, Gammons. He's not the Grand Poobah of the Boston sports scene as Bob Ryan is. He writes books, but they are nowhere near as literate or interesting as Leigh Montville's tomes. (Seriously, read a Dan Shaughnessy book some time, it's like a high school senior wrote it. And I know that writing books is difficult, but for a guy with his talents; they should be better). He doesn't have the respect of the city and the people as Will McDonough did. Hell, he's not even the most popular writer to come out of Holy Cross -- hello, Bill Simmons!

    Dan Shaughnessy is a husk of himself. A guy who had so much in terms of potential when he started and now he's just rerunning his same time old bullshit to an audience that cares less and less. I'm not saying that you should feel bad for Dan Shaughnessy, no way -- he made his bed -- but let's not compound his irrelevance with charges of racism. Bitter? Yes. Myopic? Yes. Out of touch? Definitely.

    Athletes talk about how much they despise him and that, right there, is evidence of Shaughnessy's waning power. They know that when the pen is in Shank's hand, it's not mightier than the sword. It's flaccid and weak. No one who matters really cares what Dan Shaughnessy says, his audience is either old or dead. He's about as relevant as the Yellow Pages.

    Edit: that being said, he's still a million times better than Nick Cafardo.
     
  42. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    I mean, are you kidding me?
     
  43. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 lurker

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    To reply to a few comments in one:

    I didn't intend to come off as vague or like I had something hidden or special or anything. I just figured most people knew what I was talking about. And, on the other end of things, I was concerned that coming flat out and accusing him of things might not be welcomed. I have already apologized for my initial post, and everything that was in it has been brought up in the thread.

    Regarding me not having gone on at length about the stuff - in my initial post, in a follow-up post, or in reply to others - it's because I felt Johnthebaptist covered things well enough.

    In regards to the links I provided, they weren't supposed to serve as "sources"/"authorities," but rather just as an indication of some of the stuff that had been going on. Whether one agrees with the take or not, I don't think anyone is disputing what was happening, are they?

    In general with regards to whether Dan Shaughnessy is racist or simply employs racism in his writing, I didn't intend to comment on, as I can't read minds - I can only go off what is written and how things are done.

    And with regards to what he has done - I don't think someone's quality as a Baseball player or other such matters are cause for the use of racism.

    Again, what I was getting at is that it shocks me that he has been using these racist means when discussing or describing certain players, and yet is still employed by agencies which at least have the appearance of wanting to be legitimate. Since, them continuing to employ him removes that for me.

    I think that more or less covers everything. I'm not sure why there are so many posts about me, but hopefully that clears those things up.
     
  44. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    Nothing like throwing around PED insinuations all over everyone. God he's such a prick.

    I saw that tweet, and subsequently saw everyone dunking on him for it as well.
     
  45. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Not to mention making fun of a stroke victim.
     
  46. DegenerateSoxFan

    DegenerateSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    And ignoring the obvious - that a lot of these guys get smaller after they stop working out like crazy (and for many, not eating as much to keep on the size to match up on the field), whether they were clean or not.

    Sigh...and I swore not to read anything else of his...
     
  47. The Napkin

    The Napkin wise ass al kaprielian Dope SoSH Member

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    lol. sure. Bruschi and Ortiz were both clean. That's the hill to die on.
     
  48. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    We’ve no reason to think Bruschi wasn’t and very limited/unsubstantiated reason to think Ortiz wasn’t. Other than that they were big and got smaller after retiring. Some players stop working out but keep healthy eating patterns, so they drop weight. Jeff Saturday is a good example. Others change their workout, where I think Bruschi would slot. Others change their workout and diet diet, which is think is where Papi would be. Others get fat, like Pedro or Varitek.

    The point is that Shank knows shit about any of these people and speculation is just stirring the pot. (And noting that his long noted hard on for Ortiz is sad at this point; Bruschi I assume is just a shot at the Pats in general, I’ve no reason how someone could have a problem with him unless it’s personal). It’s entirely unwarranted and worse, lazy.
     
  49. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

    Messages:
    19,215
    Shaughnessy didn't bring Ortiz up, Chad Finn did. I like Finn a lot, but there was a heavy dose of insinuation in his tweet.

    Shank did bring up Bruschi, which I'm not 100% sure he did that (probably to be a dick), but an accusation of a pro football player on PEDs? Someone fetch my fainting couch.
     
  50. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,462
    Is there though? Or is he simply stating that a fairly large guy like Ortiz looks small next to a human mountain like Thomas? Because that is how I read that.
     

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