#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
TheoShmeo said:
Dude, you're something like 0-for-infinity on these things. You might want to sit this out.
crystalline said:
Right but what was the need for litigation consulting in this report? This was supposed to be a fair and unbiased report and if that was the desired outcome they could have simply hired some actual researchers from any number of academia across the US. Instead they choose to hire a company that has a long history of getting to a desired outcome through biased research. I'd say they are highly effective though not necessarily high quality. Certainly their work in the Wells report leaves a lot of unanswered questions but hey it got the desired result and appeals to the masses so "GJGE".
Myers sounds pretty definitive about a 2-4 game suspension in the Daily News; at this point it seems the important thing is to keep the suspension under four games:
Sept 10 Steelers
Sept 20 @Bills
Sept 27 Jags
Oct 4 Bye
Oct 11 @Cowboys
Oct 18 @Colts
Oct 25 Jets
Sept 10 Steelers
Sept 20 @Bills
Sept 27 Jags
Oct 4 Bye
Oct 11 @Cowboys
Oct 18 @Colts
Oct 25 Jets
What were the client's needs? I think RG would have been happy if the investigation came back totally clean. After listening to BB and Kraft he may even have expected it. Hiring Wells was a good way of getting someone outside of the league to establish the Pats were clean, and take air out of claims he was biased.
If those text messages hadn't turned up, that is probably what would have happened. But they did. And the report was going to be made public. I'm guessing that changed the whole direction of the investigation. The pats are going to be exonerated after the public hears about the 'Deflater'? Please. I bet that unexpected development is what turned everything into a shitshow, and I seriously doubt RG was happy about it.
Why else for all the leaks from SoV and others suggesting the Pats were going to be cleared? I don't think all that was made up. The investigation was headed that way. Then it wasn't.
Anyway, plenty of theories floating around here. There is another one.
If those text messages hadn't turned up, that is probably what would have happened. But they did. And the report was going to be made public. I'm guessing that changed the whole direction of the investigation. The pats are going to be exonerated after the public hears about the 'Deflater'? Please. I bet that unexpected development is what turned everything into a shitshow, and I seriously doubt RG was happy about it.
Why else for all the leaks from SoV and others suggesting the Pats were going to be cleared? I don't think all that was made up. The investigation was headed that way. Then it wasn't.
Anyway, plenty of theories floating around here. There is another one.
I'm a Pats homer but I keep coming back to wondering why the League has made such a big deal out of this. And the only explanation I can come up with is that this whole "everybody knows they cheat"/"we finally got 'em" thing is driving it.
From the NFL's perspective, Deflategate almost seems like getting Al Capone on tax evasion – nailing a criminal mastermind on a somewhat superfluous charge. Otherwise I just don't understand how you can even consider suspending the reigning Super Bowl MVP for something you have no evidence he was even involved in.
From the NFL's perspective, Deflategate almost seems like getting Al Capone on tax evasion – nailing a criminal mastermind on a somewhat superfluous charge. Otherwise I just don't understand how you can even consider suspending the reigning Super Bowl MVP for something you have no evidence he was even involved in.
He didn't do anything
I have quite a few rational friends all of whom have lost their minds on any issue regarding the Pats.
Fwiw, not one of them knows what Spy Gate really was.
All they know about this case is that there are text messages and that therefore the Patriots are Cheaters. Always have been Cheaters.
I was surrounded at a lunch at work with 20 people all saying my team was guilty. Plus they all were pushing my buttons.
Jets fans are the worst of all of them.
I have quite a few rational friends all of whom have lost their minds on any issue regarding the Pats.
Fwiw, not one of them knows what Spy Gate really was.
All they know about this case is that there are text messages and that therefore the Patriots are Cheaters. Always have been Cheaters.
I was surrounded at a lunch at work with 20 people all saying my team was guilty. Plus they all were pushing my buttons.
Jets fans are the worst of all of them.
Why arnt Kraft or Brady screaming about a redo of the science analysis from an engineering firm, education institution or something of that ilk? I don't know what the downside would be, but the upside is a new result that casts the wells findings Ina very dubious light. I'm sure it would embarrass the NFL which is something they might not want to do right before punishment, but if they want to try to change hearts and minds then cold hard data is a good place to start.crystalline said:
Realistically how long would this type of analysis actually take? Is it days? Weeks?
lambeau said:
Which networks are doing which games? Since CBS threw Glampers a lifeline (thanks to Kraft) while he was drowning during the Rice debacle, Les Moonves will want to be shielded from a non-Brady game.
EvilEmpire said:
As lambeau pointed out in January upthread, from the early stages of the investigation it seemed to be avoiding talking to Brady, suggesting he was the target even then.
I actually want him to retire, period. Do I want Pats to win? Yes of course. But no winning is worth the price of a pound of flesh of one of my favorite athletes.uncannymanny said:
I think the world has gone mad, completely insane. If my employer requests my cell phone records for work related investigations, I will tell them to get a subpoena, otherwise the answer is a resounding "no". God knows what is on my cell phone. All kinds of inappropriate jokes (nothing illegal) among chat groups and text messages, do I want my employer to see them? Does anyone want his/her employer to see those things? If my employer suspends me because I refuse to turnover my personal cell phone for their investigations, I will sue in court and win 100 out of 100 times. It's just a complete joke. If I were a billionaire, assuming the two equipment guys are clean, I would sponsor them to sue the hell out of NFL the moment their employments are terminated by the league. I used to write poetry, maybe it's time to stop watching sports and start the old hobby again.
Sorry, should have posted this on the other board.
Sorry, should have posted this on the other board.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
Why do that now, no need to blow up the research until the punishment is levied. I'll be shocked if it isn't part of the defense once the punishment is handed out. The statistical analysis is beyond flimsy. The texts are really the only case Wells has.
I think the world has gone mad, completely insane. If my employer requests my cell phone records for work related investigations, I will tell them to get a subpoena, otherwise the answer is a resounding "no". God knows what is on my cell phone. All kinds of inappropriate jokes (nothing illegal) among chat groups and text messages, do I want my employer to see them? Does anyone want his/her employer to see those things? If my employer suspends me because I refuse to turnover my personal cell phone for their investigations, I will sue in court and win 100 out of 100 times. It's just a complete joke. If I were a billionaire, assuming the two equipment guys are clean, I would sponsor them to sue the hell out of NFL the moment their employments are terminated by the league. I used to write poetry, maybe it's time to stop watching sports and start the old hobby again.
I don't think that means anything. Brady is certainly the most important witness/potential suspect in all of this -- he's the QB. I think any investigator is going to want to see what develops before talking to him. May not get too many chances to talk to him. Brady is covered by a CBA. Team employees aren't. Look at all the nonsense over phones. Examining everything you know you are going to have access to before talking to someone you don't have as much access with makes sense to me.
EvilEmpire said:
Ok. maybe so, but then there's the initial Mortensen report of folks "distraught" in NFL HQ and the official letter to the Pats detailing a lower PSI than was actually in the halftime measurements included in the Wells report. Doesn't seem like they were expecting Wells to find nothing.
Kraft has already said he will accept whatever punishment is levied.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
I reminded them of the 45+ years that it's been since the Jets were in the Super Bowl.
I reminded them of all the Championships my Patriots and Red Sox have won.
And I always remind the Yankee fans of their huge list of Cheaters from Giambi to A-Rod to Lard Ass Pettitte
I reminded them of all the Championships my Patriots and Red Sox have won.
And I always remind the Yankee fans of their huge list of Cheaters from Giambi to A-Rod to Lard Ass Pettitte
My 3 bosses were in the luncheon today or I might have cursed a few of them out. They know I'm unstable when it comes to this issue.
I also reminded them of the Monday after the Super Bowl that all I heard all day were Crickets!!!
Best Victory Ever!!!
I also reminded them of the Monday after the Super Bowl that all I heard all day were Crickets!!!
Best Victory Ever!!!
Look, trolling fans are gonna troll. If, deep down, they don't realize what a crock this whole thing is on at least one level (nobody knew or gave a shit about PSI before, like, ever), then they are stupid and not worth your time.
The rest of it is at least debatable.
The rest of it is at least debatable.
When JimmyG got drafted, I posted that maybe Brady has already told BB he would retire if they won SB49 or SB50. It would be something if it worked out that way.
If one had to rank owners in terms of pull, Bisciotti would be second tier. Well respected, but too recent to the League to be up there with Kraft, Mara, Rooney and so forth. The main driver there with Rice was probably insensitivity to domestic violence.Papelbon said:
But the Rice matter should be the scariest to us given how recent it was and the complete cynicism displayed by Goodell, which went under appreciated here because of anti-Ravens sentiment. The League lied about Rice not telling the truth when he had (and when Ozzie and Harbaugh said that he had!). It attributed significance to a video that had no game changing significance - - because the world saw a video showing her being dragged from the elevator unconscious. And the League took the position it could punish someone twice -- well because it's the League. It was Putinesque, and I posted the slap down by Judge Jones in this thread earlier today. Indeed, it was so bad that the League didn't dare take it to the Second Circuit. And this is an outfit that will appeal what time the sun rises in the morning.
Try to find a post of mine that is trolling Pats fans on this subject. You can't. I have been nothing but respectful in this thread.Stitch01 said:
How could they have not found him charming?!
But seriously, it's perhaps ironic that Belichick's anti-press arrangement led to Brady being a, shall we say, less-than-smooth public speaker when he most needed to be, resulting in this mother of all "distractions".
But seriously, it's perhaps ironic that Belichick's anti-press arrangement led to Brady being a, shall we say, less-than-smooth public speaker when he most needed to be, resulting in this mother of all "distractions".
Van Everyman said:
I think this is why the report reminds us over, and over, and over again about just how butthurt the league should be about Brady and the Pats' failure to fully cooperate with Wells' investigation. Hanging Brady purely on the likelihood that he had a "general awareness" of a "more probable than not" deflation scheme seems a little perilous from both a PR and precedent-setting perspective. Failure to cooperate with a league investigation provides Goodell with a safer fallback to hang his hat on, which the union will fight tooth & nail nevertheless.
It would not surprise me if this was done at the behest of NFL EVP & general counsel Jeff Pash, whose role in the investigation remains suspiciously nebulous and should be getting more attention IMO. Pash is immediately identified by Wells as a co-investigator at the outset of the report, yet his name shows up again just once over the course of 244 pages:
"On January 23, 2015, the NFL publicly announced that it had retained [Wells, et al.] to conduct an investigation, together with NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash, into the footballs used by the Patriots during the AFC Championship Game." (pg. 1; par. 2)
"On January 23, 2015, [Goodell] publicly announced that the NFL had retained [Wells, et al.] to conduct an investigation, together with NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash, into whether the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications set forth in the NFL's Playing Rules.” (pg. 22; par. 1)
That’s the extent of it when it comes to a description of Pash’s involvement. Would have been nice to know just how much influence Pash had over the investigation, and if he was afforded any editorial control over Wells' final draft - would the report have read any differently had he recused himself?
I'm not an attorney, but I'm curious as to how these outsourced investigations are typically handled. Is it unusual for general counsel to actively participate in a so-called “independent” investigation, particularly when it’s possible they played some role in the events being investigated? FWIW, there is no mention of Pash being involved as an co-investigator in Wells’ report on the Dolphins (no mention of Pash whatsoever, actually), nor is he identified as co-investigator in Mueller’s Ray Rice report (understandably so, since his actions were amongst those under scrutiny).
Consistent with what other posters above has posted, I've been wondering why they hired a litigation consulting firm. Why not ask the physics departments of three or four big-name universities to independently do the study? That way not only would they be done by better experts with more credibility, but they'd also be able to compare the results from different sources. If they all same the same thing, people would have much less ammunition to attack the results.
There's an article in the New Yorker that suggests for punishment Brady be required to play one season for the Jets.
edit: unable to post link as I've exceeded my monthly quota
edit: unable to post link as I've exceeded my monthly quota
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/n-f-l-sentences-brady-to-a-year-with-the-jets?intcid=mod-most-popular
As noted above, Andy Borowitz' suggestion TB be sentenced to a year Florham Park.
As noted above, Andy Borowitz' suggestion TB be sentenced to a year Florham Park.
I don't know. I certainly think there were people in NFL HQs that were "distraught" because they really, really wanted the Pats to be caught doing something wrong. But that isn't Roger Goodell, the guy in charge. Once all the science started emerging, people started to learn about the ideal gas law, and Kraft and BB made their statements, everything became much more ambiguous. Probably enough ambiguity to avoid any major findings.Harry Hooper said:
Make no mistake, I don't think anything the NFL has done is above board. Lots of leaks. Lots of nonsense. It's a poorly run organization, and RG deserves all the blame because he's in charge. But I still think the best, most preferred outcome for RG was a finding that quietly put all this to rest. I think going outside his organization was the best way for that to happen. Again, leaks. The stupid text messages made all that much harder.
I think the instant BB brought up science, Goodell felt like he was being made a fool of. Belichick, the guy who "thinks he's smarter than everyone" was pushing some smart ass shit and rubbing it the league's face.
I don't think Goodell himself might have felt that way, but I have no fucking doubt he had people in the room whispering in his ear that BB and the Patriots needed to be taken down a peg.
I don't think Goodell himself might have felt that way, but I have no fucking doubt he had people in the room whispering in his ear that BB and the Patriots needed to be taken down a peg.
EE:
Consistent with your theory is the fact Wells wanted a fifth interview with the ball boy. And that the Pats smelled a witch hunt at that point and declined to cooperate. That could mean the texts came to light late, or at least that the conclusions were changing over time.
Consistent with your theory is the fact Wells wanted a fifth interview with the ball boy. And that the Pats smelled a witch hunt at that point and declined to cooperate. That could mean the texts came to light late, or at least that the conclusions were changing over time.