Vertonghen and Alderweireld are playing centrally tomorrow. Injuries have been tough on defense, albeit that except for Kompany they all have been mostly in depth. Their best defenders are all CB, so even without injuries players have to be out of position. On the other hand are all best defenders not CB (like the best pitchers are SP)?Vertonghen and Alderweireld, the best CB pairing in the Premier League will be deployed at left and right backs, respectively, if I understand correctly.
(Additional Spurs fan note): Dembele has to see the field for this team.
Fellaini-Naingolan-Witsel is a pretty awful midfield in terms of passing ability and quickness. Why not play De Bruyne centrally and then a player like Ferreira-Carrasco on the wing?I can't figure out that neck tattoo by Nainggolan. Belgium have been pretty meh, can't get a grip on the ball and seemingly outnumbered everywhere
De Bruyne isn't all that quick himself and while I absolutely adore watching him play he's one of those who will fall into the right position and wave at the guy as he runs past him types in CM. I'd be wary of playing him as an outright CM (which will be interesting in regards to Pep). But I think you're right that the entire CM for Belgium is too static and slow. The ball is just moving far too slowly to break down an Italian team and it is only worse against a 3-5-2 where those players are outnumbered and the passing options more limitedFellaini-Naingolan-Witsel is a pretty awful midfield in terms of passing ability and quickness. Why not play De Bruyne centrally and then a player like Ferreira-Carrasco on the wing?
I'm thinking more of De Bruyne as a #10 and then Witsel-Nainggolan behind him as a double pivot. At least De Bruyne in that role can get more involved in getting on the ball and making things happen.De Bruyne isn't all that quick himself and while I absolutely adore watching him play he's one of those who will fall into the right position and wave at the guy as he runs past him types in CM. I'd be wary of playing him as an outright CM (which will be interesting in regards to Pep). But I think you're right that the entire CM for Belgium is too static and slow. The ball is just moving far too slowly to break down an Italian team and it is only worse against a 3-5-2 where those players are outnumbered and the passing options more limited
Yeah that is probably what they should be doing. Or just playing De Bruyne at striker like City did at times in an almost Muller like free role. Lukaku can't pass with his teammates. In any case we're trying to add some dynamism in Mertens or Carrasco to the Belgian side which they clearly desperately need. Fellaini and Lukaku are Plan B hoof ball options if you can't open them up. It feels like Italy could play the game at this pace all day without concedingI'm thinking more of De Bruyne as a #10 and then Witsel-Nainggolan behind him as a double pivot. At least De Bruyne in that role can get more involved in getting on the ball and making things happen.
Well, I'm never pretended I wasn't an idiot. But while I'm at it (and confirming my Spurs stripes), isn't Dembele their best midfielder?1. Lack of better FB options
2. You're an idiot
Edit: the insult is towards wilmots, not mugsy
I think the problem is that the midfield names are big but they've all been shown to be relatively overrated. They all look the part and are useful midfielders in their own way but they're quite similar and just don't have the X factor their reputations suggest. If your midfield isn't able to get a grip in a match you'll always look less than the sum of your partsBelgium reminds me - every time I see them play - of an all-star team that has never practiced together before. There's loads of talent but they always seem to have met each other 15 minutes before kickoff.
Agreed. They really lack a composed passer in midfield. Right now they remind of some of Arsenal's worst games this season when we were playing Flamini-Ramsey in midfield and could never get anything going.I think the problem is that the midfield names are big but they've all been shown to be relatively overrated. They all look the part and are useful midfielders in their own way but they're quite similar and just don't have the X factor their reputations suggest. If your midfield isn't able to get a grip in a match you'll always look less than the sum of your parts
This was the funniest thing Ian Darke has ever said on air, beating out his commentary on the profligate spending of some club ("they spent a shedload of money with nothing to show for it") several years ago.Financial problems with the club lol
Yeah, Belgium looked much better after they went to 3 at the back - instead of the 4 centerbacks they deployed in the first half. They looked even better when Fellani went off, and Origi for Lukaku was a push.Haha, yeah, knocking it into row Z could not be ignored. It was the most complete stoppage of play possible.
sf121, the last 10 minutes are why people were talking about formation and tactics earlier. Belgium have moved to a more sensible formation and brought on a smarter grouping and they've pinned Italy back. Unfortunately for them all their striker options have a touch of Zardes in them.
This was the funniest thing Ian Darke has ever said on air, beating out his commentary on the profligate spending of some club ("they spent a shedload of money with nothing to show for it") several years ago.
Yeah, Belgium looked much better after they went to 3 at the back - instead of the 4 centerbacks they deployed in the first half. They looked even better when Fellani went off, and Origi for Lukaku was a push.
BUT... I disagree. Even once all those tactics and formations changes happened, Belgium pulled off that spectacular sequence in the 89th minute where Mertens beat several guys with an awesome individual effort and put the ball into the 6 yard box... where NO ONE was. All of his teammates were all fifteen yards away, standing outside the box, watching the play.
Hazard & DeBruyne is the new century version of Gerrard & Lampard; two great club players who are disappointing at the NT level because their skills are so similar and they like to do the same things...and they can't figure out how to complement each other, how to play together.
Belgium's problems start with their apparent inability to find anyone to play fullback. Are they interested in trading for Fabian Johnson? Four (slow) centerbacks, with two playing out of position, is a constant issue for this team and beyond their ability to play as a team, their inability to field a team where everyone knows how to play a position is a big problem.
Nice post, Teddy.One of the major things about being a NT manager is that you have to have system flexibility. You don't get to purchase players for a system and can't guarantee that your country will product international quality at any number of positions. The best NT managers are able to take the available pool and make the most of it. Yes, it is a real problem that Belgium have to play CBs at FB, but it's more of a problem that the manager is trying to play a formation with 4 at the back if his country can't produce FBs of acceptable quality. Given their depth at CB and complete black hole at FB, it's a complete shame that Belgium isn't play a 3-x-x formation simply out of pragmatism.
I mean, I agree that Belgium's players look poorly drilled and individualistic. It was a damn shame that nobody was running onto that pull back by Mertens, it was a brilliant effort that deserved more from his teammates. So I mean I agree that there's a problem there, I just think that a good manager could work with and around it and make the sum a very tough team to deal with. Wilmots continues to struggle trying to force his supposedly great CMs onto the pitch with CBs in wide areas and wondering why the team can't seem to build a coherent attack. In a lot of ways, they're lucky they have players like KDB and Hazard who are capable of conjuring up something from nothing as it papers over the team's inability to have players who support one another in attack. This is still a formation/coaching thing to me. If they had settled on a system that flooded the midfield with their relative depth they could work on positioning and making sure players are where they need to be and could balance the midfielders available. Nainggolan, Witsel, Fellaini with Fellaini inexplicably furthest forward and almost playing as a 10 was a particularly egregious deployment of available personnel. You basically have 3 #6s on the pitch all looking to fire the ball forward to KDB or Hazard and watch them do something in attack. It's no surprise that when those players turned looking to support they were staring at those same #6s walking up the pitch or that faux blonde bog brush looking to elbow someone in the box. Nainggolan was particularly atrocious in his walking around and wasting space today but it doesn't matter which, they need to sacrifice at least one if not two of them depending on formation to give them players who can support the attack. Once they went 3 at the back and got rid of two of the #6s they suddenly played something resembling football only they're not drilled well enough in the formation to cover the inevitable counters.
To me, if you're managing Belgium right now you're playing 3 at the back and you're playing KDB as a #10. Hazard takes up wider positions anyway. You have to pick which of your #6s is your first choice and slot him in, then you can begin to work on the wide areas and striker. Maybe a 3-5-2 with both Origi and Lukaku could make up for the fact that neither of them have any close control although I'd be tempted to try something far more radical that puts neither of them on the pitch. Alternatively, you can setup to play on the counter with KDB and Hazard and I suppose Origi but then you want to defend deep and look to spring forward, taking risks in nearly every attack instead of pulling up when outnumbered and regropuing in possession. Belgium got caught today with too much of the ball to hit on the counter and not enough ball skills to break down a stubborn defense.
This is a great point that I think people are missing- there are fullbacks on the roster: professional, qualified fullbacks.Nice post, Teddy.
The other option is you just play a standard four man back line but you pick real fullbacks. Its not like there are no fullbacks for Wilmots to choose. He is just doing the common gutless national team manager thing of trying to cram all his most famous players into a starting lineup rather than actually creating a functional side. The simple solution is to just play Vertonghen-Alderweireld as the center back partnership and guys from the Jupiler league like Thomas Meunier and the other Lukaku as the fullbacks. But Wilmots probably doesn't have the balls to pick some kid from Club Brugge or Oostende over Vermaelen, who plays for Barcelona.
You are the fucking best. Thanks!I moved some of the broader Belgium discussion from the Euro 2016 thread into here.
I wonder why, besides tradition, Belgium doesn't just field separate national teams for Flanders and Wallonia, the way the UK home nations do. Everything else in the country is divided on regional/linguistic lines. There really isn't much in the way of shared national identity in Belgium to hold the nation together.A lot of what we hear from those covering Belgium is that the national team is essentially the only thing that brings that nation together. It's weird that the thing that brings the nation together might also be suffering from the deep entrenched divisions that plague the nation.