10-7 likely makes the playoffs when all.ks said and done. I think they might be there. I doubt they're a title contender this year-they need more talent to do thatI think this team will be exactly where it was the last 3 years: 7-10 wins. In that sense, I'm optimistic that we'll hit the over on 7.5 wins. I'm not optimistic that we'll be a playoff team, and I'm very not optimistic that we'll look like a title contender at any point this year.
10-7 is extremely optimistic with their schedule. It isn’t happening.10-7 likely makes the playoffs when all.ks said and done. I think they might be there. I doubt they're a title contender this year-they need more talent to do that
Please tell me this was intentional.But I honestly don’t know how you can say Mac has some bad Juju
13 completions to his backs, isn't that exactly the problem? They had zero down field game. You're not making the points you think you areWhy is it terrible?
Because y/pa lacks all context as a stat?
Mac had 13 completions to his running backs, most of which were of the screen variety, and a number of quick passes to the outside. It was pretty clear from the jump the game plan involved short passing in lieu of running the ball.
I would imagine when F-ref updates the stats, we'll find that there was a shit ton of passes, by design, that didn't travel to or more than 1-2 yards passed the LOS. Those aren't chunk play types (especially when you're throwing them to guys like Ty Montgomery and Zeke Elliott who are running 4.8 40's at this point.
13 of 35.13 completions to his backs, isn't that exactly the problem? They had zero down field game. You're not making the points you think you are
I'm making the exact points I'm trying to make. I'm sorry you don't understand them.13 completions to his backs, isn't that exactly the problem? They had zero down field game. You're not making the points you think you are
brady was a massive factor in that imo: He seldom made mistakes himself and gave them the cap room to keep and acquire smart veteran playersThe game was much closer than I thought I was going to be, so there's that.
But this team has basically been losing games like this (particularly against good teams) for three straight years now. They hang around but make too many mistakes down the stretch and ultimately they can't close the deal.
I don't have an answer as to why, but a team that for 20 years basically found ways to wait for the other team to make the killer mistake, makes so many killer mistakes now. Over and over and over again.
If Mac grades as a C- today, the only quarterbacks that have played thus far in Week One that don't deserve a D or worse are Mac, Tua, Purdy, Love, Stafford and maybe Trevor Lawrence, because every other quarterback, every single one, played a significantly worse game than Mac did.I honestly hate the debate about Mac. HATE. IT.
A C-? Other than the pick six what exactly did he do to warrant a grade that would make me send my kid to bed without dinner? Did he make Zeke fumble deep in their own zone? Did he force Bourne to drop the perfectly thrown ball to kill the late drive? Did he make Henry drop that (completely catchable) pass that turned the ball over? Did he force Boutte to forget you need both feet inbounds?
The Patriots may have come up short many times during the Mac era. They came up short tonight. But I honestly don’t know how you can say Mac has some bad Juju and it was his fault his teammates dropped or fumbled those balls.
After he has a solid rookie year people go “Oh a better QB would’ve found a way to play better in the playoffs.”
Then when things go sideways with his offensive coaches people say “Oh a better QB would’ve overcome bad coaching and dealt with poor protection.”
Now, after an offseason when everyone wondered whether he had it in him to lead the team he throws three TDs against the reigning Super bowl loser and people move the goalposts yet again to say, “Well, a great quarterback would’ve found a way to win that game.”
Jesus fucking Christ.
The 2nd TD pass to Bourne was deep and beautifully thrown.That's fine; play to his strengths. When it was McDaniels at the helm he insisted on running the Brady offense with all the deeper, longer developing routes and it was a square peg in a round hole. Mac is physically limited and they should mostly play a ball-control, quick passing offense. He takes his shots, but his deep ball accuracy is abysmal. I feel like the ducks and floaters he throws are mainly poor mechanics because all of his TD passes from today were nicely zipped in there and the iffy balls looked like they were the off the back foot variety. Maybe he solves his mechanical issues, but at this point the cake feels baked.
I think l people literally don’t watch a lot of the game. Mac went down the field a fair amount! He handled pretty strong pressure well! If Boutte toe taps little more on that last one good chance the Pats won the Fucking game! The eagles defense is like really fucking good!If Mac grades as a C- today, the only quarterbacks that have played thus far in Week One that don't deserve a D or worse are Mac, Tua, Purdy, Love, Stafford and maybe Trevor Lawrence, because every other quarterback, every single one, played a significantly worse game than Mac did.
I can't tell if folks have become entitled, or just delusional.
Zeke had solid possession when he lost the ball.The problem is, Mac was in a funk and was missing high on throw after throw. A pass to Douglas that should have been a first but was too high. Then the Bourne pick which was thrown too high. Then the Zeke fubmle after a catch of a poorly thrown (too high) ball. Mac cannot afford to miss on his throws.
While I agree, outside of it sucked in game he didn't get the feet down on both catches, in the grand scheme I'm not worried about the lack of awareness. It was his first NFL game, playing against all NFL players going all out all the time. He was probably so concentrated on just making the catch that he didn't think about his feet, and mainly because he never has had to, there is no muscle memory there. I think the fact that he made tough sideline catches is much more promising, and he'll learn to drag the toe.Let’s be honest, Parker makes those plays that Boutte doesn’t - and those were 2 crucial plays. Call Parker whatever you want but he would have made a difference today
Both? But something Brady showed/taught this fanbase was what it really took to consistently win, and pull out those games that seemed hopeless. Mac makes good throws, bad throws, whatever...the coaching staff is there to analyze that to death. (And 99.9% of us are not qualified to do so.) What we see is a guy that can't quite put the team on his back and make the play when it matters most.If Mac grades as a C- today, the only quarterbacks that have played thus far in Week One that don't deserve a D or worse are Mac, Tua, Purdy, Love, Stafford and maybe Trevor Lawrence, because every other quarterback, every single one, played a significantly worse game than Mac did.
I can't tell if folks have become entitled, or just delusional.
I graded Mac down because the first quarter happened, and he missed some throws that the team needed him to hit. Unlike others, I am willing to acknowledge that Mac did throw a nice deep ball at times and used all of the receivers at his disposal.If Mac grades as a C- today, the only quarterbacks that have played thus far in Week One that don't deserve a D or worse are Mac, Tua, Purdy, Love, Stafford and maybe Trevor Lawrence, because every other quarterback, every single one, played a significantly worse game than Mac did.
I can't tell if folks have become entitled, or just delusional.
I think the 2pt conversion would have put them down 3.How about a pretty bad call that stopped them from tying the game on the 2pt conversion?
As a card-carrying member of the Bailey Zappe fan club last year, I've definitely been in the anti-Mac camp. Last year, I didn't think Mac should have started a game after the Bears loss. And I'm still not completely sold on him as the long-term answer at QB.I know your whole thing here is to yell down Mac haters. And I appreciate it because people can get weird about him. We also have agreed for 2 seasons running that we need a top end WR.
But yeah, he obviously was asked to throw mostly short stuff. I didn’t say he sucks because he had a 5.9 YPA. I said that YPA sucks. And it does. You don’t win games with that, coupled with an ineffective running game. Because you don’t score. Which we didn’t.
If this team starts 0-3 or 0-4 you're damn right we're looking to Mac. In what universe are we losing game after game and not blaming the QB in today's NFL?The problem is if this team starts 0-3 or 0-4, the blame will fall solely on Jones, regardless of his play.
Entitled as fuck. We watched the best ever for 20 years and even before that we had 7 years of pretty good. Getting used to mediocre qb play is brutal.If Mac grades as a C- today, the only quarterbacks that have played thus far in Week One that don't deserve a D or worse are Mac, Tua, Purdy, Love, Stafford and maybe Trevor Lawrence, because every other quarterback, every single one, played a significantly worse game than Mac did.
I can't tell if folks have become entitled, or just delusional.
I think Mac's inaccuracy early is what led to the pick 6 and the Zeke fumble. For a quarterback with the physical limitations Mac has, he can't afford to be missing open receivers.Game goats are the costly mistakes made by guys like Boutte, Bourne, Elliott, etc and the OL. Mac had 2-3 bleh drives but the rest were good to great. I don't know why you would put the burden on his feet. He actually made plays on the run. His pocket presence was good.
It's funny for me to go from the conversation in the slack and in the discord vs here re: Mac. A lot of us are pretty savage too when it comes to Mac and his abilities or lack-of. That includes me. He actually looked good today. The offense looks good. BoB is going to keep us in it - and btw BoB's offense puts a TON on the QB in terms to plays and adjustments.
The turnovers were flukey. How many times would that throw on target in that situation go for a pick-six. Probably 1 in 1,000? Usually pick sixes that bounce off the hands are a little off.
If we’re going to start blaming QBs for fumbles by receivers, it’s going to be a long century.I think Mac's inaccuracy early is what led to the pick 6 and the Zeke fumble. For a quarterback with the physical limitations Mac has, he can't afford to be missing open receivers.
I do think there were positives from Mac today, but those were offset by the hole he dug early and the inability to fully climb out of it late.
Zeke obviously should have held onto the ball, but the fact that Mac put the ball high and behind him made it so he had to spin around for the catch and when he turned to face the field he was already on the lineman that poked the ball out. It's not Mac's fault that he fumbled, but I think it's fair to say the placement of the pass had something to do with it. I don't think there's any chance he coughs it up if he receives the pass in front, or in a position to actually see the defenders around him.If we’re going to start blaming QBs for fumbles by receivers, it’s going to be a long century.
The pass was a shitty pass but once a receiver catches a ball there is no responsibility on the QB for hall security. Mac can have a minus for the play while still having nothing to do with the fumble.Zeke obviously should have held onto the ball, but the fact that Mac put the ball high and behind him made it so he had to spin around for the catch and when he turned to face the field he was already on the lineman that poked the ball out. It's not Mac's fault that he fumbled, but I think it's fair to say the placement of the pass had something to do with it. I don't think there's any chance he coughs it up if he receives the pass in front, or in a position to actually see the defenders around him.
In addition to what @rodderick said, it was 3 straight passes from Mac that missed high. An incompletion, the tip/pick 6, and the Zeke fumble. I don't think a QB of Mac's talent level can afford that, as today showed.If we’re going to start blaming QBs for fumbles by receivers, it’s going to be a long century.
I think this is 6 of one, half dozen of another. I'm not claiming Mac fumbled.The pass was a shitty pass but once a receiver catches a ball there is no responsibility on the QB for hall security. Mac can have a minus for the play while still having nothing to do with the fumble.
I think the fact that Zeke didn't see the defender that caused the fumble had a lot to do with it being a turnover, and the poor pass is what made it so he couldn't see the defender. Of course, the blame lies on Zeke, but plays happen within a context, and I think the throw had a contribution there as well.The pass was a shitty pass but once a receiver catches a ball there is no responsibility on the QB for hall security. Mac can have a minus for the play while still having nothing to do with the fumble.
The pick six yes. The Zeke fumble? No way. It wasn’t a great throw but good enough for Zeke to make a nice catch, secure the ball, turn upfield, start running, and make a move before the ball got knocked out. In no world is that fumble on Mac.I think Mac's inaccuracy early is what led to the pick 6 and the Zeke fumble. For a quarterback with the physical limitations Mac has, he can't afford to be missing open receivers.
I do think there were positives from Mac today, but those were offset by the hole he dug early and the inability to fully climb out of it late.
This is like blaming a blocker for a fumble because they let the defender get too close to the runner instead of winning their assignment. And if we’re going to blame the blocker for a fumble, then isn’t the whole offensive line system to blame? And if the offensive line system is to blame, then isn’t it an indictment of the coaching staff as a whole, led by Bill Belichick and his foundational years at the US Naval Academy, implying that the United States educational system is at fault, and the country liable for this? Well I’m not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!In addition to what @rodderick said, it was 3 straight passes from Mac that missed high. An incompletion, the tip/pick 6, and the Zeke fumble. I don't think a QB of Mac's talent level can afford that, as today showed.
I think this is 6 of one, half dozen of another. I'm not claiming Mac fumbled.
I'm falling into this trap too. Problem is, we only get 17 bites at the apple, and when you actually have a good chance to win at the end, you need to close it. This team perpetually seems to put itself in a hole and almost dig out, but can't quite get there.First quarter was atrocious. 2-4 was very encouraging. I'm walking out of this game with a better outlook on the season than when ai walked in.
They can’t treat our QBs like that! Only we can treat our QBs like that!This is like blaming a blocker for a fumble because they let the defender get too close to the runner instead of winning their assignment. And if we’re going to blame the blocker for a fumble, then isn’t the whole offensive line system to blame? And if the offensive line system is to blame, then isn’t it an indictment of the coaching staff as a whole, led by Bill Belichick and his foundational years at the US Naval Academy, implying that the United States educational system is at fault, and the country liable for this? Well I’m not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
I've seen plenty of "Henry bailed out Mac!" in here, but there were also at LEAST half a dozen balls that were dropped. Henry dropped a 16 yarder to his chest after he bailed out Mac. Juju dropped a wide open first down throw. Bourne dropped a few early. Boutte had his issues.C- C-???? What? If Boutte puts two feet down and they win what's Mac's grade then! Give me a break.
Mac is still on a rookie deal and is getting paid less than Brady was for pretty much his whole time in New England save maybe his first two years. Also, Brady may have been more responsible than we thought for the way the Pats played disciplined football during much of his time here, but I refuse to believe that the difference between Mac Jones and Brady is what caused a veteran like Dietrich Wise to line up like two feet offsides, among other bone headed plays they made yesterday.brady was a massive factor in that imo: He seldom made mistakes himself and gave them the cap room to keep and acquire smart veteran players
Fully agreed on Mac showing more promise this game.I've seen plenty of "Henry bailed out Mac!" in here, but there were also at LEAST half a dozen balls that were dropped. Henry dropped a 16 yarder to his chest after he bailed out Mac. Juju dropped a wide open first down throw. Bourne dropped a few early. Boutte had his issues.
Macs throws were sailing high, but any "bailouts" the skill players gave him were equally countered by drops.
I felt like Mac showed more promise this game then he did the entirety of last season.
it's almost like they missed a set of joint practices and didn't play at all in the preseason in a game and then looked like shit when the lights went on for a quarter. I really wish teams would go back to at least playing starters together in a preseason game for a half.First quarter was atrocious. 2-4 was very encouraging. I'm walking out of this game with a better outlook on the season than when ai walked in.
The 2 big mistakes were Mac's throw that led to the pick-6 and Zeke's fumble. The neutral zone infraction was pretty bad but is the kind of thing that happens across the league in Week 1. Boutte's failing to keep his feet inbounds seems like a classic case of jitters for a rookie playing in his first NFL game. Still not sure how was at fault on the pass to Boutte in the end zone (Boutte or Mac), although Boutte did at least work to prevent the interception. And the team was victimized by one egregiously bad holding call and 2 others that were ticky-tack and were given to Philly's offense all day.Mac is still on a rookie deal and is getting paid less than Brady was for pretty much his whole time in New England save maybe his first two years. Also, Brady may have been more responsible than we thought for the way the Pats played disciplined football during much of his time here, but I refuse to believe that the difference between Mac Jones and Brady is what caused a veteran like Dietrich Wise to line up like two feet offsides, among other bone headed plays they made yesterday.
They've been making stupid mistakes in close games against good teams for three years now. And it is killing them, and they can't fix it.
Edit: just to be clear, I'm not a Mac guy and didn't think he played all that well yesterday. I'm not blaming him, though. Maybe it was just that having Brady caused us to forget the stupid shit the team did, I don't know. This was the best coached team in football for two decades who rarely beat themselves, and I used to laugh at fans who thought there was some league conspiracy instead of just seeing the obvious, that the Pats were better than any other team in football at eliminating and/or minimizing stupid plays and letting the other team beat themselves. For the last 2+ seasons, at least against good teams, we are the ones making the killer mistakes that we cannot overcome. I don't have answers I'm just perplexed.