Game 8: Goats in Miami

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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Pats are not beating the Jets in January. The Jets will be possibly playing for a WC spot and the Pats will need to lose to get a better draft pick.

And y’all (except @luckiestman) underrate Zach Wilson
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The jets have scored 8 more points than the pats and given up 79 less. They have a -3 point differential. I think they are a better team than the pats and am struggling to understand the argument that they aren’t.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Pats are not beating the Jets in January. The Jets will be possibly playing for a WC spot and the Pats will need to lose to get a better draft pick.

And y’all (except @luckiestman) underrate Zach Wilson
BB hates us so we will get it all and it’s a home game for you. But we beat the Birds for the first time ever, we broke the bye week streak (lost last 8 games out of the bye). So it may be time to end the Pats streak.
 

Silverdude2167

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The jets have scored 8 more points than the pats and given up 79 less. They have a -3 point differential. I think they are a better team than the pats and am struggling to understand the argument that they aren’t.
The Jets are not missing their two best defensive players and have played an easier schedule which might be why they have given up fewer points.

Mac sucks so the team sucks, the end.

Put an average QB on this team and have only one of the top 2 D guys healthy and they win the game today.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,572
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The Jets beat the Eagles.

Do you know who else has beaten the Eagles this year? Nobody.
It makes me chuckle when this team gets shellacked and people start predicting wins against any single NFL team, let alone multiple teams in a stretch. There is nobody on the schedule you can feel confident about a win against.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The Jets are not missing their two best defensive players and have played an easier schedule which might be why they have given up fewer points.

Mac sucks so the team sucks, the end.

Put an average QB on this team and have only one of the top 2 D guys healthy and they win the game today.
Right, the Jets aren’t missing any important players. None at all.

Both teams stink. I could easily see the Pats losing to the Jets- I have no confidence they can put up points on anyone.
 

snowmanny

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Pats are not beating the Jets in January. The Jets will be possibly playing for a WC spot and the Pats will need to lose to get a better draft pick.

And y’all (except @luckiestman) underrate Zach Wilson
You think BB is going to intentionally lose to the Jets for the first time in eight years and let the Jets (!) walk into the playoffs so that he can pick one spot higher in the draft?

OK
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
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Miami is simply a much better team than us. The better team won.

Goats all around, lots of nominees on both sides of the ball.
This. There is a huge talent discrepancy. Mac is trash and the third down D was atrocious but if it wasn’t that it’d be something else. They’re just not good enough.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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This. There is a huge talent discrepancy. Mac is trash and the third down D was atrocious but if it wasn’t that it’d be something else. They’re just not good enough.
Back in the day, when the game balls/goats thread tradition started, typically you could point to a couple guys and say *that’s* the reason we lost.

Needless to say, since Brady left, and particularly in the past 2 seasons, the reason we lose is because our roster is not nearly as good as the team we’re playing.
 

Kliq

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Trent Brown has been one of the worst players in all of football all season. Just a completely pathetic performance from your LT who is supposed to be the rock of your offensive line.
 

cornwalls@6

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Mac. He’s simply not a winning NFL QB. Last week was the kind of fools gold that all qbs flash on occasion. He can’t do it regularly, week in week out. There’s other goats on the offense, of course. But really, if your quarterback is dysfunctional, so will everything else be. He should be finished here, if not in season, then certainly by next year.
 

gattman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Zach Wilson may or may not be worse than Mac, but the Jets have wins over Denver and the Giants and have yet to play Miami. They’re also pretty healthy on D.

Switch the Denver and Giants games with Miami and take Sauce Gardner off the field (as the Pats are missing their 2 best D players) and the Jets aren’t 4-3

not making excuses for the Pats, and you can only beat who you play etc etc but the 4-3 Jets and 2-6 Pats are pretty similar in terms of both being competitive enough on D but bad on offense. The Jets also have Garrett Wilson who is substantially better than any Pats WR.

the Wilson Jets and Pats are pretty comparable teams, with the Pats having a tougher schedule and more injuries to key players.Obviously a healthy Rodgers would have the Jets as a noticeably better team.

I’d guess both teams will end up with 6 wins. Jets might get to 7. Doubt they end up 2+ games better than the Pats
The biggest differences between the Jets and the Pats are that A) the Jets are much healthier on D and B) the Jets have two players on O (Hall and Wilson) that are light years better than any skill position players on the Pats. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that the Pats have fewer difference makers on O than any other team in the NFL.
 

Ale Xander

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The biggest differences between the Jets and the Pats are that A) the Jets are much healthier on D and B) the Jets have two players on O (Hall and Wilson) that are light years better than any skill position players on the Pats. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that the Pats have fewer difference makers on O than any other team in the NFL.
It’s a shame that Stevenson is so under appreciated by Pats fans
 

j44thor

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Aug 1, 2006
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It’s a shame that Stevenson is so under appreciated by Pats fans
He doesn't look like the same player this year, don't know if he is injured or just not in as good of shape but he appears both slower and less powerful than last season. He used to run defenders over like crazy last season, this season he is barely breaking tackles. I wonder if Fears retirement has had any impact on Rham.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Are the patriots good on d, though? Only four teams have given up more points. Granted not every team has played 8 games and the pats offense being so bad forces the D out there for longer (and the pick sixes factor in too) but I’m not sure this defense is elite.
 

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
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I think the Pats beat both New York, one of Indy/Washington and Denver. Perhaps stealing a win against one of the others.6 wins is what I would bet on at this point.

the Jets have the Pats, Miami twice, Buffalo, Houston, Washington, Atlanta, Cleveland and Vegas. They barely beat a crippled Giants team today. Im assuming they lose 3, maybe all 4 of the division games, lose to Houston and split the rest. So maybe 7. But I’d be shocked if they got to 8 or if the Pats won fewer than 5. So they should each be at 6 +/- 1.

the idea that the Jets are similarly bad as the Pats is hardly insane. Their performance today should be enough to convince anyone of that. They needed Gano to miss a late game FG and the Giants to literally not be able to pass the ball to beat an awful awful Giants team. How do you think it’s “insane” to think they lose a ton of games moving forward?

both teams suck. The Pats have an easier path forward, albeit 2 games behind. Unless you really think the Pats end up with 3-4 wins, they should end up close to the Jets
glass haif full the only sure losses are KC best case is 4-5
doom they could go 0-9 if mac plays this bad Wash has a great pass rush indy is very bad but puts up at least 24 a game NYG is your best shot at a win LAC will put up at least 21-24 pitt is also bad but has more playmakers KC u have to copy den game plan to have a shot den with the way den def is playing i dont like your chances buff unless bad weather happens u will not win nyj i like the jets but u match up well with them
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Through 8 games in 2022 Rhamondre had 114 rushes and 32 catches (146 touches)
Through 8 games in 2023 Rhamondre has 97 rushes and 23 catches (120)

Elliot has 67 rushes for 260 yards.

Rhamondre needs the rock. He gets better with more touches because he is so physical and can wear down the defense. Straight-up alternating drives with a guy who may or may not be in the NFL next year is asinine.

Today his first three rushes were 14:22 1Q, 4:21 1Q, 5:40 2Q. Sorry, but how in the f are you supposed to get into a rhythm if this is your utilization pattern?
 

k-factory

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Dec 22, 2005
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Through 8 games in 2022 Rhamondre had 114 rushes and 32 catches (146 touches)
Through 8 games in 2023 Rhamondre has 97 rushes and 23 catches (120)

Elliot has 67 rushes for 260 yards.

Rhamondre needs the rock. He gets better with more touches because he is so physical and can wear down the defense. Straight-up alternating drives with a guy who may or may not be in the NFL next year is asinine.

Today his first three rushes were 14:22 1Q, 4:21 1Q, 5:40 2Q. Sorry, but how in the f are you supposed to get into a rhythm if this is your utilization pattern?
Nah. The more likely issue is overuse from last year is what broke him. Regardless he has fewer explosive plays. He’s getting plenty of touches and the team sure has needed him. The OL being a mess early on didn’t help either but he’s not looking like the same guy.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jan 31, 2006
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around the way
1. Mac for coming up small
2. OL for turning back into pumpkins. Too many pressures, zero run game
3. Defensive coaches. Giving miles of cushion and giving up the seams all day was a terrible idea. Almost no deception outside of the Dugger INT and some free rushes on random blitzes. You can't let Tua be that comfortable.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Just one question for those that have insight into such things:

I noticed that Jack Jones had zero snaps in yesterday's game, but was not on the inactive list? Is that correct? If so, can we speculate as to why? I thought he acquitted himself reasonably well against the Bills, and JC Jackson is still clearly working his way back into game shape.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Sep 21, 2007
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Just one question for those that have insight into such things:

I noticed that Jack Jones had zero snaps in yesterday's game, but was not on the inactive list? Is that correct? If so, can we speculate as to why? I thought he acquitted himself reasonably well against the Bills, and JC Jackson is still clearly working his way back into game shape.
He played yesterday. I don’t have the exact snap count, but he definitely was out there.
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
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In addition to the hit on Parker (who will likely be fined but, imo, should be suspended), Belichick also complained about Zeke getting tripped when asked about player safety.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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In addition to the hit on Parker (who will likely be fined but, imo, should be suspended), Belichick also complained about Zeke getting tripped when asked about player safety.
This is the play, it's a blatant trip. Not called.

Blatant facemask, not called

Blatant hit out of bounds. Not called

Blatant hitting a defenseless receiver in the head. Not called.


The refs were a fucking joke yesterday. Destroyed any chance the Pats had in the game, and then compounded it with a fucking ticky tack call on JC Jackson.


View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1718965729175716000
 

BaseballJones

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The issue isn't these calls per se. It's that when teams stink (like NE does), they cannot overcome bad calls that go against you. This team certainly doesn't seem to be able to.
 

johnmd20

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The refs were a fucking joke yesterday. Destroyed any chance the Pats had in the game, and then compounded it with a fucking ticky tack call on JC Jackson.
Across the NFL yesterday, the refs were driving a clown car. So many one sided games. So many obvious calls missed. So many ticky tack nonsense calls made.

It was excrement up and down the line.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The issue isn't these calls per se. It's that when teams stink (like NE does), they cannot overcome bad calls that go against you. This team certainly doesn't seem to be able to.
It's certainly hard to overcome calls that weren't made that would have extended the Pats first two drives of the game against a team with an offense like Miami, and injuries all over our defense. The Pats needed 28+ to win yesterday, and got completely fucking boned on back to back possessions to start the game. If the Henry call is made, they are 1st and 10 at their own 38, so maybe they don't come away with points, but maybe they do.

On the 2nd possession, Mac hit Rham in the flat, and he is easily going to get the 1st, but his facemask was grabbed and he went down. The game thread folks that missed it were saying "Why the hell did he go down so easy? etc." If that call is made, it's 1st and 10 at the Miami 45 or so.

Both of those plays happened on third down, and we had to punt it away. That shit fucking hurts. Then the Pats intercepted Tua, got the touchdown and went up 7-0. The game takes a whole different tone if even one of those first two possessions ends in a FG.
 

Zedia

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It's certainly hard to overcome calls that weren't made that would have extended the Pats first two drives of the game against a team with an offense like Miami, and injuries all over our defense. The Pats needed 28+ to win yesterday, and got completely fucking boned on back to back possessions to start the game. If the Henry call is made, they are 1st and 10 at their own 38, so maybe they don't come away with points, but maybe they do.

On the 2nd possession, Mac hit Rham in the flat, and he is easily going to get the 1st, but his facemask was grabbed and he went down. The game thread folks that missed it were saying "Why the hell did he go down so easy? etc." If that call is made, it's 1st and 10 at the Miami 45 or so.

Both of those plays happened on third down, and we had to punt it away. That shit fucking hurts. Then the Pats intercepted Tua, got the touchdown and went up 7-0. The game takes a whole different tone if even one of those first two possessions ends in a FG.
I’m not so sure there was an obvious face mask on Rham. Looked like the defender had his shoulder pad. I would think Rham would’ve been calling for a flag if he got the mask.

What people in the game thread were upset about was that it too forever for Rham to recover (it was like the Flintstones running in place bit) and then turtles into the tacklers when it looked like he could’ve made the first if he kept outside. Looking at it again just now, I don’t think he could’ve made it, they closed quickly.
DFC90CB5-3112-4D64-8CC6-78019B796EA9.jpeg36D2F3F8-3A15-4FFA-AF63-ED30A69BD41E.jpeg
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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It's certainly hard to overcome calls that weren't made that would have extended the Pats first two drives of the game against a team with an offense like Miami, and injuries all over our defense. The Pats needed 28+ to win yesterday, and got completely fucking boned on back to back possessions to start the game. If the Henry call is made, they are 1st and 10 at their own 38, so maybe they don't come away with points, but maybe they do.

On the 2nd possession, Mac hit Rham in the flat, and he is easily going to get the 1st, but his facemask was grabbed and he went down. The game thread folks that missed it were saying "Why the hell did he go down so easy? etc." If that call is made, it's 1st and 10 at the Miami 45 or so.

Both of those plays happened on third down, and we had to punt it away. That shit fucking hurts. Then the Pats intercepted Tua, got the touchdown and went up 7-0. The game takes a whole different tone if even one of those first two possessions ends in a FG.
I just rewatched. I didn't see any facemask on the 3rd down play with RHAM in the flat. He was grabbed under the face mask. I also didn't see any penalty on the Hunter third down. It was third and very long and they threw a 5-yard pass and he was gang tackled nowhere near the line to gain. Did you think they hit him out of bounds? The last guy to hit him did so just as the whistle was sounding and Henry's feet, believe it or not, were still in bounds. So it was a legal hit. Unnecessary, because Henry was going out of bounds clearly, but still, the defender made contact while Henry's feet were still in bounds.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I just rewatched. I didn't see any facemask on the 3rd down play with RHAM in the flat. He was grabbed under the face mask. I also didn't see any penalty on the Hunter third down. It was third and very long and they threw a 5-yard pass and he was gang tackled nowhere near the line to gain. Did you think they hit him out of bounds? The last guy to hit him did so just as the whistle was sounding and Henry's feet, believe it or not, were still in bounds. So it was a legal hit. Unnecessary, because Henry was going out of bounds clearly, but still, the defender made contact while Henry's feet were still in bounds.
I would have to see both plays again. Can't really tell from the screen shot above, and I haven't rewatched the game on DVR (i was watching at the bar at the golf course), but I thought Rham's head turned clearly as it would from a facemask initially.

The Henry play, I would need to definitely see again. I thought both his feet were planted OOB when he took the last hit that almost sent him into the bench. He clearly wasn't happy about it.

For the record, if Rham didn't get his facemask grabbed, it's awful that he didn't convert there.
 

Zedia

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On Henry, the whistle is blown right here. It looked bad because the defender (29) was flying and hit Hunter pretty high.

10C5F89B-F558-4B22-A4F0-F9D4697554FD.jpeg

As for Rham, the shoulder pad grab had the same effect as a face mask, stopping his momentum and twisting his whole upper body.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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On Henry, the whistle is blown right here. It looked bad because the defender (29) was flying and hit Hunter pretty high.

View attachment 73188

As for Rham, the shoulder pad grab had the same effect as a face mask, stopping his momentum and twisting his whole upper body.
I can't find the play online. Can you post the screen shot of when 29 hits Hunter?
 

Deathofthebambino

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Eating pancakes, Ill post later. But it's like a split second later.
LOL, wish I was eating pancakes right now.

Maybe it's not a late hit out of bounds, but there are multiple rules in the rule book about hitting a guy when forward progress has been stopped and/or when they are in the grasp of another player. But again, without seeing it again, I'm not sure. Seemed to me at the time that hit was completely unnecessary, even if he wasn't a step out of bounds yet. The hit from #5 is clearly legal, IMO, but the next guy coming in, flying or not is irrelevant, because it's on the defensive player to avoid the unnecessary contact.
 

Zedia

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LOL, wish I was eating pancakes right now.

Maybe it's not a late hit out of bounds, but there are multiple rules in the rule book about hitting a guy when forward progress has been stopped and/or when they are in the grasp of another player. But again, without seeing it again, I'm not sure. Seemed to me at the time that hit was completely unnecessary, even if he wasn't a step out of bounds yet. The hit from #5 is clearly legal, IMO, but the next guy coming in, flying or not is irrelevant, because it's on the defensive player to avoid the unnecessary contact.
I think you once berated me for preferring home fries to hash browns. Or maybe that was someone else.

Anyway, here’s 2 frames later. I thought it was excessive and a penalty in real time. Dude came flying in like a bowling ball.

E204C77E-050B-4B50-A429-267CD6863B0B.jpeg
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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I think you once berated me for preferring home fries to hash browns. Or maybe that was someone else.

Anyway, here’s 2 frames later. I thought it was excessive and a penalty in real time. Dude came flying in like a bowling ball.

View attachment 73189
I'm not sure if it was me or not, but anyone that prefers home fries to hash browns deserves to be berated. But to be fair, very few places know how to make good hash browns, so a lot of times, home fries are the safer option.

If we're picking between great hash browns or great home fries, hash browns all day and twice (literally twice, because Sunday is a twice a day breakfast day) on Sundays.
 

Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
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I still don't know the rational for what happened on the ineligible man downfield penalty. He 4-5 yards downfield on the throw.

They marked off the yards for the penalty, the Dolphins were huddling for 3rd and 18, and suddenly it was a first down. What happened there?