I've probably ranted this particular rant before, but I really don't see how Piazza makes it in and Bagwell doesn't. Can somebody explain this to me?
He gets bonus points for playing a more difficult defensive position. Or, at least that's how I've always thought it was about. Plus, he spent the bulk of his career in the limelight in LA and NY.I've probably ranted this particular rant before, but I really don't see how Piazza makes it in and Bagwell doesn't. Can somebody explain this to me?
It's not someone seriously advocating for Winn. It's part of a series where each day a different candidate is discussed as a way to generate content in an otherwise slow news period.
I feel like I've replied to this rant before, too, but I may as well do it again.I've probably ranted this particular rant before, but I really don't see how Piazza makes it in and Bagwell doesn't. Can somebody explain this to me?
I'm guessing you don't line up with soxfan121 on the question of closers.I also give catchers a 50% bonus in terms of WAR, etc. because Dan Rosenheck found that over the courses of their careers, due to the demands of the position, catchers actually end up with, on average, 57% fewer plate appearances over the course of their careers than other position players.
fWAR has him at #6, behind Bench, Carter, Pudges 1 and 2, and Berra. Obviously that needs to be taken with several tons of salt, since the defensive component there is open to question, to put it mildly. Ten years ago it was fashionable to diss Piazza's D; now it's fashionable to rehabilitate it. Regardless, Piazza is certainly a top-10 and at least a borderline top-5 catcher all-time, and he belongs in the Hall.Put this all together and I think Piazza is one of the top 5 catchers ever in MLB, with a reasonable argument for number one if you believe the game-calling numbers.
Both of whom, one should note, are in the Hall of Fame--so Bagwell should be too, since his career was as illustrious as theirs would be if you credit them with the wins they lost to circumstances beyond their control. (And BTW, if you "war-credit" Mize and Greenberg, you should also "strike-credit" Bagwell with about 5 extra WAR for the games he lost in 1994-95, when he was at his youthful peak.)He'd be in the next group with a fully war-credited Johnny Mize and Hank Greeenberg.
Wait. What? Better than Mark McGwire? Bite your tongue!A pity about Trammell. He was probably the best AL hitter in the original RBI Baseball (statistics based on 1984 stats, with batting average chief among them).
Sutter's major reason for getting in the Hall is (hold on to your ass for this one) is he was the first to be recognized using the split-finger pitch successfully. He wasn't the first to use it, he was just the one that it was most credited to. So he gets in based on an alleged historical timing thing.Bruce Sutter who is tied for 26th in saves all time (with 300) and a grand total of 19 WAR over 12 seasons is in. Because beard? Fingers didn't have a beard, so get a beard guy in, I guess. Is there a worse modern pitcher in the Hall? He had three magnificent seasons in a row, and then. . .average or poor the rest of his career. Seriously - this guy http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1012743&position=P is in, and this guy http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=578&position=P has 9% of the votes
Hey, at least MLB closers/relievers do better in their HOF than their NFL "brethren" (aka kickers and punters)!In summary, hooray for supremely effective relievers and fuck closers. If you can't fuck them, put in the ones in who actually belong, and actually have some measure of consistency about what the barometers for a Hall of Fame closer actually is.
MLB Network's website says it's today at 3 p.m. ET.I went to see when results will be announced, so naturally I went to the BBWAA page. There it helpfully states:
"Results will be announced by Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson at 6 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2016, on MLB Network."
Jan 6th is Wednesday. Tuesday is the 5th. Good job guys - that's the attention to detail we've come to expect from BBWAA members. The HOF's website says the 6th, so I guess that's two more days of waiting.
3 hours of foreplay before the announcement at 6pm.MLB Network's website says it's today at 3 p.m. ET.
Don't get me started. I'm just itching for a long snapper debate with someone.Hey, at least MLB closers/relievers do better in their HOF than their NFL "brethren" (aka kickers and punters)!
Hopefully Dice-K gets Gyro ball love late in his candidacy.Sutter's major reason for getting in the Hall is (hold on to your ass for this one) is he was the first to be recognized using the split-finger pitch successfully. He wasn't the first to use it, he was just the one that it was most credited to. So he gets in based on an alleged historical timing thing.
Schilling may get in if he shuts up long enough to not piss people off. Out of the 194 public ballots thus far, he has "new" on 23 but "lost" 7. Only 1 of the 7 came from someone who voted for 10 people. At the end of the day (not this year, though), he will need that extra 3-4% if he hopes to get to 75%.From the ballot tracker it looks like Griffey and Piazza are locks for 2016. Raines and Bagwell just missing. The next tier is Schilling/Hoffman which if G38's number holds at around the 55-60% mark shows he might have a good chance of making it in eventually.
Yes, last year there was a big difference in the votes from those who made their ballots public vs those who didn't:From the ballot tracker it looks like Griffey and Piazza are locks for 2016. Raines and Bagwell just missing. The next tier is Schilling/Hoffman which if G38's number holds at around the 55-60% mark shows he might have a good chance of making it in eventually.
As we talked about earlier, those numbers are going to be skewed by the significant dropoff in the number of voters. The purge was directed at those BBWA members who have not be active for at least 10 years. General consensus has been that those no longer voting would fall into the do not publicize category (as well as being more likely to vote for players with a PED stigma). If that line of thinking is indeed correct, the drop might not be as severe.Yes, last year there was a big difference in the votes from those who made their ballots public vs those who didn't:
Player - Public - Not public
Bagwell - 60.49% - 48.64%
Raines - 60.18% - 47.27%
If this trend holds, then Bagwell, currently at 76.8% on the ballot tracker, and Raines (76.3%) would look to receive somewhere around 64% of the non-publicized vote, which would put them well short. I'm curious to see if the rise in votes from last year to this year translates to those who didn't publicize.
Many players get cut before they actually release the ballot, so my guess is Cabrera, Sanchez, and Lugo never actually see the light of day.The players with Red Sox ties new to the ballot will be led by Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield and JD Drew. Others include Mike Cameron, Edgar Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Freddie Sanchez and Julio Lugo.
True enough ... although a batting title might get Sanchez on the ballot. I mean, Luis Castillo made itMany players get cut before they actually release the ballot, so my guess is Cabrera, Sanchez, and Lugo never actually see the light of day.
Vlad is a lock. Pudge will probably as well since the PED stuff was never proven...Because of the new 10-year term limit, if Raines doesn't get in this time, next year will be his final chance on the ballot. Besides the holdovers, there are a slew of first-times -- most of whom have no shot -- including several with Red Sox ties.
The top tier of new candidates would be Ivan Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Vlad Guerrero and Jorge Posada.
The players with Red Sox ties new to the ballot will be led by Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield and JD Drew. Others include Mike Cameron, Edgar Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Freddie Sanchez and Julio Lugo.
I'd be shocked if Wakefield made it beyond a single year. If he were on this years ballot, he'd need something like 22 votes to garner 5%.Vlad is a lock. Pudge will probably as well since the PED stuff was never proven...
Posada will get something like 40% and Manny will probably be around Bonds/Clemens territory or maybe even the Sosa/Palmero treatment.
Tek will probably hang around the ballot until 2018. Wakefield I could see hanging around by a thread for multiple years.
Is Vlad a lock? He kind of got old in a hurry. What's the difference between him and Sheffield or Larry Walker? At the very least, I don't see him getting in until the ballot thins out a little.Vlad is a lock. Pudge will probably as well since the PED stuff was never proven...
Posada will get something like 40% and Manny will probably be around Bonds/Clemens territory or maybe even the Sosa/Palmero treatment.
Tek will probably hang around the ballot until 2018. Wakefield I could see hanging around by a thread for multiple years.
Slight derail since this is for 2017.Vlad is a lock. Pudge will probably as well since the PED stuff was never proven...
Posada will get something like 40% and Manny will probably be around Bonds/Clemens territory or maybe even the Sosa/Palmero treatment.
Tek will probably hang around the ballot until 2018. Wakefield I could see hanging around by a thread for multiple years.
It's weird that you seem to disparage the "older, more traditional" voters, then leave all those guys off your listDepending on how they did the culling of voters, it could also be a boost for Clemens, Bonds, McGwire etc... if some of the older, more "traditional" voters who would not vote for the roid users (who upset the records of their childhood heroes) have been purged. It will be too damn late for McGwire, but maybe not the others...
My ballot would have:
Griffey
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Martinez
Trammell
Bagwell
Does it really "suck" though? Think it kept Maddux up at night for like a single second? I think fans and writers are the only ones who care about this. I do really want Griffey to be the first this season. Best all-around player I ever saw (Trout has to put in more years and I honestly can't say he is as effortlessly gifted as Griffey was, but maybe nostalgia is clouding my judgement there).The problem, at least for the last few years, has been the 10-player maximum on each ballot. A few sportswriters openly didnt vote for Maddux, RJ, and/or Pedro because they knew they would get enough votes to be well over the 75% mark, but instead used the extra slots on their ballot to vote for someone else they felt deserving (Schilling, Mussina, etc). I don t have any issues with a sportswriter doing this, especially given the stupid 10 vote max rule. It just sucks for someone like Maddix when looking at their overall vote percentage.
Manny will drop off the ballot the first year because he actually got suspended for PEDs. I wish it was different, I love the guy. But he'll never have a chance.Vlad is a lock. Pudge will probably as well since the PED stuff was never proven...
Posada will get something like 40% and Manny will probably be around Bonds/Clemens territory or maybe even the Sosa/Palmero treatment.
Tek will probably hang around the ballot until 2018. Wakefield I could see hanging around by a thread for multiple years.
He got suspended...twiceManny will drop off the ballot the first year because he actually got suspended for PEDs. I wish it was different, I love the guy. But he'll never have a chance.
Rafael Palmeiro lasted four years on the ballot despite a suspension for PEDs. I doubt Manny falls off the first year, particularly considering his numbers beat Palmeiro across the board. I imagine Manny will fall into the Bonds/Clemens/McGwire hell of lingering in the middle of the pack for the duration rather than falling off quickly.Manny will drop off the ballot the first year because he actually got suspended for PEDs. I wish it was different, I love the guy. But he'll never have a chance.
It's weird that you seem to disparage the "older, more traditional" voters, then leave all those guys off your list
Does it really "suck" though? Think it kept Maddux up at night for like a single second? I think fans and writers are the only ones who care about this. I do really want Griffey to be the first this season. Best all-around player I ever saw (Trout has to put in more years and I honestly can't say he is as effortlessly gifted as Griffey was, but maybe nostalgia is clouding my judgement there).
http://baseballhall.org/hof/class-of-2016Griffey, in his first year on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot, was named on 437 of 440 ballots by voting members of the BBWAA, setting a new record with a percentage of 99.32. The previous mark of 98.84 percent was set by Tom Seaver in 1992.
Piazza, in his fourth year on the BBWAA ballot, was named on 365 ballots – or 83.0 percent of all ballots cast.
Any doubt at least one is from NY, and wants Jeter to be the unanimous electedFuck those 3 idiots.
I'll bet some of it has to do with his drug use. Not that that makes any sense, but ...What the hell do these people have against Raines?
I doubt even Jeter gets 100%... there will always be one person who will leave him offAny doubt at least one is from NY, and wants Jeter to be the unanimous elected